Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 12 Jun 2013 17:02

Chandragupta wrote:What's with Yadavs? Voting SP in UP, Laloo in Bihar. What are the dynamics here? Blindness?

Yadavs are not the Yadavs of Lord Krishna - That is from Kind Yadu. These are basically people looking after cows etc in present UP and Bihar areas just joined to gether and started calling themselves as Yadavs.

We have to understand that the castes up to 1930 are all upward mobile. People started claming themselves as Kshathriyas etc immediately after they become rich and powerful. Every one want to be from good comunity. This shows that people want to claim greater social status to match their economic and other status. So every one is coming up socially. No claims of thousand years of backward and bramhical appressions etc but a simple claim that they are Khathiras etc.

In the same way a joint caste of Yadavs was born in UP. They are not the same like Jhadavs who are basically Suraseni rulers of Devgiri. Yadavs being joining of huge number of communities etc are numarically big in UP and behar areas - a basic cowbelt.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 12 Jun 2013 17:41

BJP in Bihar is making very friendly comments to JD(U), even though they know that JD(U) would walk out.

In Bihar, BJP wants to have the moral high ground, when JD(U) leaves NDA.

ashashi · Post by **ashashi** » 12 Jun 2013 17:55

1) Mamata Banerjee
2) Nitish Kumar
3) Naveen Patnaik
4) Mulayam Singh Yadav
5) Chandrababu Naidu

Mamata Banerjee - She cannot align with NDA as she believes she came to power with muslim vote.
Nitesh Kumar - He believes he can deliver Bihar again by himself. Power blind. Looking for larger role in the center.
Naveen Patnaik - BJP did not respond very well to his overtures few weeks ago. A bargaining tactic.
Mulayam Singh Yadav - Pipe dreams of becoming PM.
Chandrababu Naidu - Believes he lost the election in 2004 because of the muslim vote. Once BJP gathers steam under modi, he can come around.

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 12 Jun 2013 18:07

The thinking behind 'Fedral Block' is to have a common bargaining power from eastern states, who have similar socio economic conditions. It can work for the good of these states. If an argument is made for Bihar to be declared as a special case same could easily be made for WB and Orrisa. It has a potential to appeal to voters. Overall if played well, by mature politicians it can work (Mamta ?). For starters JDU / TMC / BJD do not cross paths.

Good news is that it is certain that IF this block is really formed and IF they get respectable number of seats then they have no choice but to support anyone in center otherwise there is NO bargaining. Over all good thing for NM.

But they have to be very careful. Say they support INC or BJP in center but mid course any one of 'Fedral Block' constituents loses election then by default the group will break.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 12 Jun 2013 18:19

Sanku wrote:There is enough anger against Nitish -- if he is hell bent on committing suicide, people should lend him a gun.

WHat happened to the theories of. scripted fights?

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 12 Jun 2013 18:29

ashashi wrote:
1) Mamata Banerjee
2) Nitish Kumar
3) Naveen Patnaik
4) Mulayam Singh Yadav
5) Chandrababu Naidu
Mamata Banerjee - She cannot align with NDA as she believes she came to power with muslim vote.
Nitesh Kumar - He believes he can deliver Bihar again by himself. Power blind. Looking for larger role in the center.
Naveen Patnaik - BJP did not respond very well to his overtures few weeks ago. A bargaining tactic.
Mulayam Singh Yadav - Pipe dreams of becoming PM.
Chandrababu Naidu - Believes he lost the election in 2004 because of the muslim vote. Once BJP gathers steam under modi, he can come around.

Based on surveys, if BJP revives in UP due to Modi, in the above list only relevant folks are Mamta and Navin. CBN will not get beyond 15 level and his relevance is to AP and nothing beyond. The competetors for CBN who will crave to join centre are YSRC and TRS. They will try to join NDA if it wins and they will not think sitting out. My bet is that AP will be part of the government at center.

This Federal Trash is a non-starter.

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 12 Jun 2013 18:31

vina wrote:
PS: Baba Ramdev Yadav is also nipping at the heels of the OBC neta types opposed to Saffron politics
Right.. This is exactly what the country needs. A rambling, incoherent Yoga dude, pushing rustic nostrums as solutions to big problems, all this because of what ? Because he wears Saffron.

Better than a rambling, incoherent wanna-be-Brit dude, pushing half-baked nostrums as solutions to big problems, all this because of what ? Because he wears Gandhi topi on head (and a rose on his chest).

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 12 Jun 2013 18:36

and is a ChaCha for kids who died of VD.

vivek.rao · Post by **vivek.rao** » 12 Jun 2013 18:42

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 555838.cms
Records related to affidavit in Robert Vadra case confidential: PMO

NEW DELHI: The Prime Minister's Office has refused to part with records related to its affidavit filed in Allahabad high court in response to a writ petition seeking probe into allegations made against Robert Vadra on controversial land deals, saying these are "confidential".

Lucknow-based RTI activist Nutan Thakur had filed a writ petition last year before the Lucknow bench of Allahabad high court seeking probe into the allegations of irregular land dealings against Vadra levelled by Arvind Kejriwal.

It was dismissed by the bench after additional solicitor general Mohan Parasharan, appearing on behalf of the Centre, had submitted that the petition was based on general newspaper reports which cannot be treated as true.

In its affidavit, the PMO had termed the allegations regarding irregular land dealings between Vadra, son-in-law of Congress chief Sonia Gandhi, and real estate major DLF as "false, based on hearsay and vexatious".

Thakur, through an RTI application, wanted to know all the file noting related to the PMO affidavit before the high court. She also wanted to know from the top office action taken after receiving her petition.

In it first reply, the PMO has claimed that since the matter was "sub judice", the records cannot be disclosed to her. She argued that such details can only be withheld when there is explicit order from the court for not disclosing it.

Later, the PMO said, "The office, keeping in view the Supreme Court ruling, has sought exemption as the matter has been treated as confidential."

It quoted a Supreme Court order which said the exemption under section 8(1) (e) (of the RTI Act) is available not only in regard to information that is held by a public authority in a fiduciary capacity, but also to any information that is given or made available by a public authority to anyone else for being held in fiduciary capacity.

"In other words, anything given and taken in confidence expecting confidentiality to be maintained will be information available to a person in fiduciary capacity," it said.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 12 Jun 2013 18:50

Sushupti wrote:
Sanku wrote:There is enough anger against Nitish -- if he is hell bent on committing suicide, people should lend him a gun.
WHat happened to the theories of. scripted fights?

It seems Nitish is running away with the script. If he is really THAT stupid, what can I say. His funeral.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 12 Jun 2013 18:52

Sanku wrote:There is enough anger against Nitish -- if he is hell bent on committing suicide, people should lend him a gun.

So Sanku sir, with enough indications that cong and rjd will go together, niku still wants to go alone, aren't you surprised?? Or is cong planning on going with jd(U).

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 12 Jun 2013 18:55

muraliravi wrote:
Sanku wrote:There is enough anger against Nitish -- if he is hell bent on committing suicide, people should lend him a gun.
So Sanku sir, with enough indications that cong and rjd will go together, niku still wants to go alone, aren't you surprised?? Or is cong planning on going with jd(U).

muraliravi-ji --> I am completely surprised. I hope he carries through his tactical brilliance to next step and joins congress, it will be really good for BJP. But I dont think he will do so. I think he just thinks he can be top dog without depending on others. Moorkh hai.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 12 Jun 2013 18:57

Sanku wrote:
muraliravi-ji --> I am completely surprised. I hope he carries through his tactical brilliance to next step and joins congress, it will be really good for BJP. But I dont think he will do so. I think he just thinks he can be top dog without depending on others. Moorkh hai.

Thats what i am hoping for, Niku + cong vs bjp vs rjd+ljp means bjp will come out on top. But if it is bjp vs jdu vs rjd+ljp+cong, then bjp will have big problems.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Jun 2013 18:57

Ashok Sarraff wrote:How about moving away from Advani a bit? Assuming that NM will be BJP's PM candidate, who would be the face of Congress? Rahul? MMS? Chiddu?

Meira Kumar.

Ashok Sarraff · Post by **Ashok Sarraff** » 12 Jun 2013 19:07

ramana wrote:
Ashok Sarraff wrote:How about moving away from Advani a bit? Assuming that NM will be BJP's PM candidate, who would be the face of Congress? Rahul? MMS? Chiddu?

Meira Kumar.

The lack of clarity on congress mascot reminded me of the following kabbady ad from recent Gujarat elections.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEKv1NSFv1k

NM/BJP should project the next election as a presidential contest between NM and "no one". People generally prefer clarity. The national election should not become a summation of independent state elections.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 12 Jun 2013 19:22

Basically after June 16th, Narendra Modi can be declared PM candidate by NDA. With JD(U) not anymore in the NDA, there is no reason to keep back.

Even though it was only per forma but still the reason BJP was unwilling to declare Modi as PM candidate was due to the wishes of JD(U). By turning in his resignation Advani instead of delaying this announcement only ended up showing his impotency and thus accelerated JD(U)'s exit and making Modi's PM candidature official.

Even today, Advani called upon Nitish Kumar to stay in NDA, fully knowing that he would not do it.

If Advani was thinking about preserving his own diminished power base in BJP, then it showed only more desperation. With JD(U) gone, all of Advani's and D4's levers against Modi are gone.

LK Advani, Sushma Swaraj, Ananth Kumar, Murli Manohar Joshi, Jaswant Singh, Yashwant Singh, Shatrughan Sinha, all have become irrelevant to BJP's future. If Modi, Rajnath and Gadkari (RSS) feel they can use someone, they would, but otherwise the old guard has completely collapsed.

Perhaps Sushma Swaraj and Ananth Kumar may still be allowed to stand from their constituency, but beyond that their influence is gone.

LK Advani would certainly not contest any more. Nor would Murli Manohar Joshi or the others named earlier.

Arun Jaitley made the right decision at the right time choosing the right side.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Jun 2013 19:27

Singha wrote:No way! Chidamabaram is a party apparatchik. He will find it difficult to even win at Sivaganga ! No way can he carry TN and he is zilch outside Sivaganga . His lack of Hindi is another big handicap.

that exactly describes MMS also and look how revered and successful PM he is for 9 yrs he is alleged to be more fluent in urdu than hindi.

Most Congress CMs were terrified when Chiddu proposed the NCTC. If Shinde had proposed it, there was a fair chance.
Most polticios think Chiddu was creating his own STASI with the NCTC.

If Chiddu beomce PM then its toast for 2G family. So he will be in the corridors but not the PM seat.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Jun 2013 19:31

saravana wrote:Nandan Nilakeni? I doubt CONgress will risk anyone from politics. Putting my tinfoil hat and without basis on any fact whatsoever, SRT?

Before Pranab Mukherjee became the President it was very possible for N^2 to replace MMS. However Pranab Mukherjee argued that in uncertain times its essential to have a politician at the head of govt.

N^2 was getting prepared to be declared repalcement PM from sources. then the Pranab Mukherjee arguments came in.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 12 Jun 2013 19:33

Published on Jun 12, 2013
2014 polls: Narendra Modi may contest from Varanasi, Allahabad or Lucknow: Sources

Varanasi should at least get a different BJP candidate!

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 12 Jun 2013 19:35

munna wrote: “Good Governance is the ability to differentiate between right & wrong, just & unjust,
fair & foul and moral & immoral. Kautilya in his Arthashastra says that in order to ensure
this the person who governs should understand that his happiness lies in the happiness of his
subjects, his welfare in their welfare. But this in itself does not make it democratic governance. But in the context of democratic good governance, people are no longer subjects but are participants.” – Shri Narendra Modi.
Click on links below to find out how Shri Narendra Modi has led the path of good governance in Gujarat with the mantra of “Sauna Saath, Sauna Vikas (All together, growth for all)”

thanks munna.

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 12 Jun 2013 19:37

From youtube video by NDTV (Published on Dec 1, 2012 ): Won't act against unruly MPs: Speaker (of Parliament of India) Meira Kumar to NDTV
She is reluctant to use the authority granted to her as Speaker of the house and thus has failed in her duty to the people of India. God bless India if she is UPA III's PM candidate. If by miracle UPA wins and she becomes the PM then I think after 2 years, even UPA wallas will beg for MMS to return for a third term as PM.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 12 Jun 2013 19:37

Many of us knew that Modi's elevation would rattle NDA allies. Their actions are predictable. They risk losing much of their vote block over time with a very intelligent, confident, efficient, and honest administrator at the center. Modi is a brand that is marketable. What is Mamata's brand? Nitish's brand? Patnaiks brand? They haven't built up energy, agricultural, manufacturing, transportation, and knowledge infrastructure in their states because all of them aren't serious about it. They subscribe to a very retrogressive form of politics built on secularism and socialism which IMO have been cast into the garbage by most Indians. Indians are tired of preachy rhetoric and they want more freedom and development.

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 12 Jun 2013 19:46

Sanku wrote:There is enough anger against Nitish -- if he is hell bent on committing suicide, people should lend him a gun.

Sanku Ji. It will be fool hardy to think that Nitish is suicidal. He has done a lot of good work and people in Bihar recognize it. If JDU quits NDA and Joins INC then it's a 3 way battle between BJP, RJD and JDU + INC. Of these if he is able to attract some Muslim votes away from RJD and holds on to his OBC votes along with some incremental votes from INC he should be OK but not in as good a position as he would be with BJP. On the other hand BJP only has Upper cast votes and RJD has Yadav and some Muslim votes.

NK is going ahead even though he got trounced in By elections because 'pradesh BJP' wanted to teach him a lesson. I think something is amiss here that we don't know yet. One thing that is interesting is that RNS had consulted him before announcing Modi as Chief campaigner. NK's team even announced that this was internal matter for BJP. Only after Advani episode they have turned up the heat. Why?

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 12 Jun 2013 19:47

From those trying hard to keep JD(U) inside NDA, one can know how their own future depends on outside forces for balancing Modi within BJP.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Jun 2013 19:50

Atri, Thanks for exposing the Hindu way of Critical Thinking or vimarsha. Some of us think that way but not in the structured manner you have elucidated.

A new wave of "Critical Thinking" is sweeping the West but unfortunately is not so popular.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 12 Jun 2013 19:51

Sri wrote:Only after Advani episode they have turned up the heat. Why?

Because only then did they truly understand the unassailable position in which Modi was. It became clear to the whole world that Advani was politically impotent. So they could not hide any longer behind "PM candidature still open" excuse.

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 12 Jun 2013 19:56

RajeshA wrote:
Sri wrote:Only after Advani episode they have turned up the heat. Why?
Because only then did they truly understand the unassailable position in which Modi was. It became clear to the whole world that Advani was politically impotent. So they could not hide any longer behind "PM candidature still open" excuse.

May be you are right Rajesh Ji. Knowing Namo if NK ends up with the losing combination he will get 'Goddamn Status' for Bihar instead of 'Special Status'.

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 12 Jun 2013 20:01

Sri wrote:
Because only then did they truly understand the unassailable position in which Modi was. It became clear to the whole world that Advani was politically impotent. So they could not hide any longer behind "PM candidature still open" excuse.

May be you are right Rajesh Ji. Knowing Namo if NK ends up with the losing combination he will get 'Goddamn Status' for Bihar instead of 'Special Status'.[/quote]

I sincerely hope, NM does not get into this INC/British tactic of depriving citizens their due (based on political leanings). Even if Bihar votes Laloo, it is still Bharat. NM's track record and election mantra of "Sabka Saath, Sabka Vikas" does not permit such governance.

The only thing that needs to be studied is, did LKA's actions prematurely (i.e. unplanned) exposed NM as PM candidate.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 12 Jun 2013 20:03

Amitbhai Shah met Kalyan in lucknow today. Went swimmingly well, reports say.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 12 Jun 2013 20:04

Sri wrote:
Sanku wrote:There is enough anger against Nitish -- if he is hell bent on committing suicide, people should lend him a gun.
Sanku Ji. It will be fool hardy to think that Nitish is suicidal.

Sri-ji; I agree, it was more of a off the cuff remark. As I have maintained before, this 3-way split wont help any of the JDU/BJP in Bihar, it is foolish.

BTW, as far as I know, the current fracas is driven more by local JDU vs BJP fight. Nitish misbehaved with Kirti and BJP sank him in Maharajganj, so he is really pissed off there, and the rest follows from that.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Jun 2013 20:09

Now Patnaik is stating his price. All along he was quiet and now he wants special status for Odissa.

Odissa deserves special status but not under BJD's Patnaik!

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 12 Jun 2013 20:13

He says every assamese village he goes, they approach him to speak "Please sahab speak against bangladeshis, we're really harrassed by them. I told you've bangladesh as neighbour , I have pakistan as neighbour the only difference is that you're harrassed by bangladeshis , but pakistanis are really harrassed by me."

A must watch, just 1 minute 50 second video, the flow the energy has to be seen to be believed.

vivek.rao · Post by **vivek.rao** » 12 Jun 2013 20:15

Modi strikes a fear among several people: Nitish, Congis are allying because he can re-arrange how Politics is done.

I think Modi&BJP should not focus on paid media, JD(U) and start the rallies all across India. The gang up of all selfish forces is good for BJP. People can see thru the game.

Most of these folks don't care about the damage Congis and Maino clan are doing to the destruction of institutions: CBI, PM, President, CAG, PAC and even CEC. They come up different excuses and try to talk nicely about their concern for BJP or Advani but they are only doing it because Modi can change the discourse of the politics.

I have see Muslims/COMMIES/Fake Liberals on twitter saying things like if NM comes, this will be the last elections in India. That is how far the communal fake liberals are going to prevent Modi from becoming PM.

The message to them: You are polarizing the situation not Modi or BJP or even VHP. If any thing, Modi curbed the power of VHP/Bajrang Dal not using fake NIA cases but strong law&order. Don't cry after 2014 if the situation turns hostile because you are the one who is communalizing the situation and creating the divisions.

If you are really interested in peaceful co-existence, let the process play out. Let us appreciate what BJP did because for the first time in India we kind of followed a process where some one laid out an agenda and people like that agenda. This is a great opportunity for all parties to formalize such a process. India can really become healthy democracy. You have to see why the cunning and dangerous forces are against this.

Today it might be Modi but all political parties will be forced to follow the process. Don't try to derail the process because you are a Brahmin or Thakur or Yadav or Christian or Muslim.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 12 Jun 2013 20:21

meira kumar sounds like a good candidate for next president after P'da term expires!

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 12 Jun 2013 20:28

I think maharajganj victory of Laloo is not very significant as the seat is stronghold of Laloo. People of Bihar has still not forgotten the dark days of Lalooraj. He would gain some seats due to breakup of JDU and BJP in Bihar. But JDU would not loose much neither BJP would loose. Of course if JDU goes with INC then it might sink with INC. No way we would like laloo and INC to come back. Days are past. Nitish has done some very good works and people do recognise it. But they think BJP was not given its due share in credit for development process and perhaps without Nitish BJP might get a chance. Some resentment is there , simmering in the background, about surreptitious caste politics which nitish sometimes plays and it does not go un noticed by people. NaMo plank is that of Development and I have not heard of him talking about caste politics so far. This fact is recognised by Bihar. Hence , NaMo could bea big surprise for NiKu and Assembly poll may through more surprise before LS poll since Sushil Modi is recognised as subdued but efficient minister. JDU going with INC will only harm them. Going alone , BJP may gain with NaMo as PM candidate.

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 12 Jun 2013 20:30

Singha wrote:meira kumar sounds like a good candidate for next president after P'da term expires!

Please elaborate as to why she would be a good candidate. Other than being a rubber stamp for the Congress party president what are her credentials at being elected for the job.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 12 Jun 2013 20:36

^ well that exactly is her credentials...I am saying this based on a UPA3 asuric raj ofcourse.

vivek.rao · Post by **vivek.rao** » 12 Jun 2013 20:38

BijuShet wrote:
Singha wrote:meira kumar sounds like a good candidate for next president after P'da term expires!
Please elaborate as to why she would be a good candidate. Other than being a rubber stamp for the Congress party president what are her credentials at being elected for the job.

We are a symbolic, pathetic nation which lives on empty gestures. Perfect choice for a clueless nation.

Your propagandists can say "Here is your Muslim or Harjin candidate or second Woman President." while you are busy on the phone transferring billions into your SWISS account.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 12 Jun 2013 20:41

Singha wrote:meira kumar sounds like a good candidate for next president after P'da term expires!

Why not PM, saar? dalit, woman, gandhi-worshipper. ideal MMS part-2.

vivek.rao · Post by **vivek.rao** » 12 Jun 2013 20:43

What was Narendra Modi doing on June 10?

As he made his way into the third floor of Swarnim Sankul 1, which houses the Chief Minister’s office, the visitor read a tweet by Narendra Modi in which had urged Advani ji to withdraw his resignation and not disappoint the lakhs of workers. Anxiety paved way to uncertainty when he saw Modi’s next tweet where he said he approved of any decision taken by the Parliamentary Board and finally, uncertainty paved way for disappointment when he read tweets of BJP leaders making their way for the meeting. However, the staff at the CMO gave him no indication that the meeting would not take place.

Finally at 7:15 pm he was signaled by the staff to proceed into the Chief Minister’s chamber for the meeting.

As he deposited his phone outside, he saw the same news on TV, making him wonder how long the meeting will last. But, he was pleasantly surprised when he entered the Chief Minister’s chamber. Modi stood up and greeted him with characteristic warmth. He appeared calm, cool and relaxed giving no indication of what was happening outside. The visitor noticed that there was no television on and neither was any aide of Modi’s present. Modi spoke to his visitor for an hour in a conversation that was uninterrupted barring a two-minute phone call, which too was cut short by Modi. There was no trace of tension or apprehension as to what was happening 900 kilometres away in the national capital as Modi remained absorbed in the conversation with the visitor. Needless to say, the visitor came out extremely satisfied after what was a productive hour of discussion with Modi.