Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

SagarAg · Post by **SagarAg** » 24 Jun 2013 23:37

WoW.

Army chopper delivering supplies at Uttarakhand rescue Op Rahat.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 25 Jun 2013 13:27

About 30 Kms downstream from Kedarnath is a place called GuptKashi - Rudraprayag.
There is a major helo base there. It was originally for tourists to fly into Kedarnath, Badrinath, Gangotri, Sri Hemkund Sahib which are all like 30 - 55 Kms from here. There are several helipads here.

The location is here on Google maps. 30.539453, 79.079680

This is the major base for the heliborne ops that the IAF and the IA are carrying out.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Jun 2013 10:33

from bill sweetman paris airshow report:

On the armament side, Rafael will be introducing the Spice-250, the smallest (250-lb.-class) version of its precision-guided weapon family. Already combat proven, Spice-250 represents an alternative to the U.S. Small Diameter Bomb family, but differs in using the Spice family's imaging infrared scene-matching guidance system rather than relying on GPS or laser designation.

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 26 Jun 2013 10:54

Gagan, here is a scenario, given that the all weather capability of Mi-17v5 is in question, and say the Sea kings were suitable being marine choppers, you got few of these stationed on Jalashwa which might be somewhere in the high seas. To ferry you would first fly them to a location close enough for a C-17 to land even on foreign soil and transport them to Dehradun directly.

Lalmohan, the Bambi bucket system is inherently unstable as this video shows at 3:16, now what would be the issues in adapting this method for people?

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 26 Jun 2013 19:49

Aux fuel tanks on our Vs:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VC4SCeo4hn8/U ... 783860.jpg

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Jun 2013 20:03

I wonder if the C130 could add a long F15 style cft tank outboard to extend its range , keeping the interior same.
or perhaps another pair of external tanks inboard of the inner engines.

one can never have enough fuel tanks.

a company specializing in fuel tanks under usa ecosystem has already scoped out KC-130 it seems !

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/d ... ospace.pdf

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Jun 2013 20:45

Livefist:
The IAF has a lot of helicopters over Uttarakhand right now, but only one heavylift Mi-26, possibly the only airframe still serviceable. The IAF chose the Chinook over a new generation variant of the Mi-26 in a competitive selection that ended last year. The Mi-26, a glorious chopper that happens to be the largest ever that went into production, is still gravely unsuited for operations in mountainous areas, where its large footprint severely limits where it can hover and land. It's immense downwash is also a problem during emergency evacuations. IAF pilots I've been speaking to say they can't wait till the Chinooks arrive, since their design and capabilities lend perfectly to rescue and relief operations in tricky terrain in all weather.

The IAF has had to muster an unusual level of availability to cater to the demands that the state government in Uttarakhand has made on it. The official current break-up of aircraft (36 choppers and 9 fixed wing) deployed for rescue and relief operations is:
Mi-17 IV / V5 x 23
HAL Dhruv x 11
Cheetah x 2
Mi-26 x 1
C-130J x 3
An-32 x 3
HS748 Avro x 1
Ilyushin-76 x 1
The work-up and tempo of operations has been remarkable, given the constraints and limitations the IAF works under even with some of its newer equipment like the Mi-17 V5s that along with the IV constitute the single largest type deployed for the entire gamut of operations, and have as usual emerged the commendable and reliable workhorses of Operation Rahat. But the IAF has recognised that it needs more and larger choppers capable of rapid deployment and high rates of availability. The three An-32s deployed are all from an upgraded batch, and remain a joy to fly for pilots who swear by their reliability.

The recent arrival of the IAF's first C-17 Globemaster III, practically in the middle of the disastrous weather, is timely though it won't be deployed in the current operations. Had it arrived a month or two before, it's possible that the heavy transport would have cut its Indian teeth over Uttarakhand.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Jun 2013 20:58

What does Rahat mean?

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 26 Jun 2013 21:02

Relief

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 26 Jun 2013 22:30

Her son, a pilot, had promised he would call last night

Madurai/Lucknow: She was expecting a call from her young son. Instead, when the phone rang, it was with the news that Indian Air Force pilot K Praveen had died.

26-year-old Flight Lieutenant Praveen from Madurai was among the 20 killed in yesterday's helicopter crash during a rescue mission in flood-ravaged Uttarakhand.

The IAF pilot had told his mother that he would talk to her after he finished the day's flights to ferry people to safety.

He was my only son. He used to be always active. Becoming a pilot was his ambition and after a brief stint in software firm TCS he joined the Air Force," his mother Manjula, a railway employee, said.

"He spoke to me at 9.45 AM yesterday and told me he will be calling me again in the evening. But we only received the call conveying the shocking news about the crash of the helicopter at Gaurikund and death of Praveen and others," she said.

The officer's parents separated when he was very young and it was his mother who brought him up. The pilot did his schooling at the renowned TVS School and earned his Bachelor in Engineering degree in Mechatronics from another illustrious institution, the Thiagaraja College of Engineering. After taking up a job with Tata Consultancy Services his passion to serve the Indian defence as Pilot continued. In 2009, he joined the Indian Air Force. He served in Bangalore first and moved to Barrackpore in West Bengal from where he finally went on the rescue mission to the flood ravaged Uttarakhand.

The Flight Lieutenant was home last month on a short leave. He visited his 85 year old grandfather, a heart patient who required a surgery. Praveen was home just to arrange for his grandfather's surgery.

The Air Force's rescue operations in Uttarakhand are marked by a perfect symmetry of courage and selflessness. Through bad weather, whorls of mist and tough terrain, pilots have been delivering on the pledge the Air Force Chief made on Tuesday, "Our helicopter rotors will not stop churning till such time we get each one of you out, do not lose hope and hang in there."

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 27 Jun 2013 09:27

U’Khand chopper crash: Darrell Castellino- The man who always returned compliments

http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/uk ... 57776.html

Gauchar: "I am not from Goa. I am from Mumbai," Darrell Castellino, who was the commander of the ill-fated Mi-17 helicopter that crashed on Tuesday in Gaurikund, said when asked if his second name suggested he hails from the beach state.

Castellino, who was piloting the big chopper in the Garhwal hills to rescue people, looked tired but enthusiastic yesterday when he was greeted at the Indo-Tibetan Border Police (ITBP) camp where he was staying with one of his pilots.

Tall and dark, Castellino was happy that he was getting to wear his dark green jumpsuit for a big operation to "bring in more and more live people" stranded and battered by heavy rains and flash floods since over a week.

Castellino was even complimented for his good work by ITBP DIG Amit Prasad when he was having dinner at the officers' mess, which the IAF warrior returned with a compliment.

"Arey sir aapke ladke bhee bahut zabardast kaam kar rahein haiin (Sir, your boys too are doing a great job)," he replied to the ITBP commander. With his comment, he proved his friends correct who said he always used to return a compliment.

Along with Castellino four other officers were killed in the fatal mishap. They were Flt Lt Kapoor and Flt Lt Praveen, Seargent Sudhakar and Junior Warrant Officer A K Singh.

This is the first crash of the newly inducted Mi-17 V5. The flying machine which went down belonged to 157 Helicopter Base in Barrackpore, West Bengal.

Thousand salutes to you sir. You make my city and whole nation proud.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 28 Jun 2013 07:11

In HAL-CONNECT-ISSUE-75, there is some details in the direction of where HTT-40 is going.

AGM of the Aeronautical Society of India(AeSI), Bangalore Branch, was held on June 15, 2013 and a technical session assigned to HAL was delivered by Shri Prashantsingh Bhadoria, Deputy Project Manager (HTT 40), and Senior Manager (D) from ARDC, on “ Changing face of Military Basic Trainers”.

Shri Bhadoria bought out the changed philosophy in the design and utility of basic trainers. The trainers of today can not only be deployed for basic training to ab initio pilots but have also been systems and weapons upgraded to include functionality of fourth generation fighter aircraft. This enables them to double up as light attack and reconnaissance aircraft. A significant amount of systems training to be provided at the intermediate and advanced phase of training can be covered by the basic trainer itself, leading to enormous reduction of cost and platform fatigue.

Further, he elucidated maintainability comparison, endurance, fuel consumption, per hour training cost and unit price between the light attack trainer, light attack helicopters, UCAVs and fourth generation fighter jets of HTT 40.

Quite frankly, I like this Bhadoria guy since AI'13. I feel a sense of confidence and grit about him. But I hope he tries to deliver the HTT-40 in time and within costs. And for that reason, I don't like all this 4th-gen comparison and the AAMs on the wingtips! These will obviously be SRAAMs with IIR/electro-optic seekers. With the HTT-40s limited range and maneuverability, they would be useful only against helicopters and a few class of UAVs. Don't know if it is worth it at the moment.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 04 Jul 2013 11:50

Wonder what is the progress on the CABS AEW. Yesterday I saw one flying around 12.00 PM.

Lots of fast jet flights nowadays. Today there was one at 7.30 am! I have seen LCA, Jag and IJT flying, not all on the same days though.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 04 Jul 2013 18:47

CABS AEW&C, per public information, the hardware is now integrated and they are now validating it in trials - all the software, joint operation of the sensors etc. Its the first Indian program with full blown sensor fusion as well.

srai · Post by **srai** » 05 Jul 2013 09:47

indranilroy wrote:In HAL-CONNECT-ISSUE-75, there is some details in the direction of where HTT-40 is going.

AGM of the Aeronautical Society of India(AeSI), Bangalore Branch, was held on June 15, 2013 and a technical session assigned to HAL was delivered by Shri Prashantsingh Bhadoria, Deputy Project Manager (HTT 40), and Senior Manager (D) from ARDC, on “ Changing face of Military Basic Trainers”.

Shri Bhadoria bought out the changed philosophy in the design and utility of basic trainers. The trainers of today can not only be deployed for basic training to ab initio pilots but have also been systems and weapons upgraded to include functionality of fourth generation fighter aircraft. This enables them to double up as light attack and reconnaissance aircraft. A significant amount of systems training to be provided at the intermediate and advanced phase of training can be covered by the basic trainer itself, leading to enormous reduction of cost and platform fatigue.

Further, he elucidated maintainability comparison, endurance, fuel consumption, per hour training cost and unit price between the light attack trainer, light attack helicopters, UCAVs and fourth generation fighter jets of HTT 40.
Quite frankly, I like this Bhadoria guy since AI'13. I feel a sense of confidence and grit about him. But I hope he tries to deliver the HTT-40 in time and within costs. And for that reason, I don't like all this 4th-gen comparison and the AAMs on the wingtips! These will obviously be SRAAMs with IIR/electro-optic seekers. With the HTT-40s limited range and maneuverability, they would be useful only against helicopters and a few class of UAVs. Don't know if it is worth it at the moment.

Armed version will most likely be for exporting to small third world countries with limited budgets but still have a need for controlling their airspace against drug cartels and insurgents.

koti · Post by **koti** » 08 Jul 2013 19:09

guess which other bird can virtually stall.
Link
First seen on Militaryphotos

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 09 Jul 2013 02:00

How we'll fare airforcewise against yellowish reds by 2028?

Tejas = 120 (at least)
FGFA = 40
Su 30 = 400
Rafales = 126
Upgraded M2ks = 50
Upgraded Mig 29 = 60
Upgraded Jaguars = 100
AMCA = 20 LSPs*

----------------
Total = 896
----------------
*Not counted

Weaponised helis:
LCH = 300 (Army + AF)
Rudra = ??
Mi 17v5 = 200

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 10 Jul 2013 07:57

Posting this in MilAviation thread since IAF is the biggest loser from this news.

Defence Ministry diktat on cutting fuel use by 40% stumps armed forces

NEW DELHI: The defence ministry has asked the armed forces to reduce fuel use by 20-40% as the sharp increase in prices has upset budget calculations, leaving soldiers, commanders and analysts bewildered and worried about the country's overall defence preparedness.

Pilots are wondering if they should fly fighter jets with half-full tanks while the army is struggling to find ways to economise on crucial movement of men and material across rough terrain or to cut the use of diesel in lighting up camps and barracks in remote areas along the 15,000-km international border, where many stretches are not connected to the electricity grid.

Official sources said the supplies and transport directorate under the defence ministry recently wrote to defence commands, saying allocation of various fuels would be cut by 20-40% in the current fiscal, depending on specific requirements and unique needs of the army, navy and air force. Rising electricity tariff across the nation too has inflated expenditure on large cantonments and defence establishments.

International crude prices, which have risen 8% in the past week, as well as the depreciating rupee, which is sinking to record lows, have made diesel for bulk buyers nearly 20% costlier than the state-set rates for motorists. While state transport undertakings have happily switched to petrol pumps, the defence forces have no such option.

Experts are worried. "As it is, the frequency of core-level exercises has come down due to limited fuel. Mechanised exercises of defence forces are becoming expensive. If fuel prices go up further, there will be more limitations in training our armed forces," said Lieutenant General (retd) Prakash Katoch, who has co-authored the book India's Special Forces.

Defence forces, among the biggest fuel consumers in India, spent over Rs 7,000 crore on petroleum products in 2012-13. This includes Rs 4,090 crore spent by the air force and Rs 1,661 crore by the navy, according to Laxman Behera, research fellow at the Institute for Defence Studies and Analysis (IDSA).

The defence budget for 2013-14 rose barely 5.3% to Rs 2,03,672 crore, compared with the 17.6% expansion in the previous budget. Behera terms this growth as negative in view of rising fuel prices and inflation.

Air Commodore (retd) Jasjit Singh, director-general of the Centre for Air Power Studies, questioned the wisdom of cutting fuel supply. "It is possible for private airlines to save fuel by managing routes efficiently. But you cannot fly combat aircraft with half-full tanks. I am not aware on what basis the instructions have been given to reduce fuel consumption. I don't know how to save ATF in training. Movement of all supplies requires fuel. What we need is more efficient vehicles. However, changing your fleet also involves a huge cost," Singh said. He said inadequate fuel may hit peacetime activities such as training and overall preparedness.

Oil industry executives said prices had been adjusted in line with market trends. "In the past six to eight weeks, with the weakening of the rupee against the dollar and firming up of crude oil prices, the difference between retail and bulk diesel price has gone up by over 9 per litre. With diesel price rising for institutional consumers, state transport undertakings are purchasing fuel from our retail network resulting in a 60% drop in our bulk trade," said N Srikumar, executive director of IOC. The state-run company meets most of the petroleum product needs of defence forces. Defence personnel said the forces were doing their best to save on costs. "In the past five years, prices of diesel and LPG have gone up by 20-25% and 150-300%, respectively. The quantities of fuel allotted to the commands are enhanced or reduced based on the change in prices. However, austerity measures have been instituted to save revenue expenditure as fuel prices are going up. Energy conservation is something all of us are seized of and we are trying to save costs," said a defence ministry official, who did not want to be identified. He said the ministry has not sought any relief from the ministries of finance and petroleum.

Sources said the annual allocation of jet fuel will be reduced by 20% of the average consumption last year while petrol and diesel supplies will be reduced even more.

"You cannot cut salary, LPG consumption to feed personnel and certain other operations in defence activities. Hence, decision-makers prefer to control spend on energy first, when they have to reduce revenue expenditure. However, cutting down energy consumption hits your defence preparedness as soldiers are less mobile and not very well-trained, especially in case of air force and navy, where one must gain experience of a certain numbers hours of flying and sailing every year," said Behera of IDSA.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 10 Jul 2013 08:44

all this while the UPA govt. increases the fiscal burden by populist measures like the Food Security Act. The longer this UPA govt. stays in power, the worse India's situation is going to get.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 10 Jul 2013 09:12

^^^
Still won't cancel any super expensive arms import deals though.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 10 Jul 2013 09:16

Manish_Sharma wrote:How we'll fare airforcewise against yellowish reds by 2028?

Tejas = 120 (at least)
FGFA = 40
Su 30 = 400
Rafales = 126
Upgraded M2ks = 50
Upgraded Mig 29 = 60
Upgraded Jaguars = 100
AMCA = 20 LSPs*

----------------
Total = 896
----------------
*Not counted

Weaponised helis:
LCH = 300 (Army + AF)
Rudra = ??
Mi 17v5 = 200

You have added an extra 130 to the MKIs number. Also the Mig 29 are likely to be retired by then. Though one would hope for more than 40 FGFAs.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 10 Jul 2013 09:51

IAF sacks man for affair with colleague's wife

The Indian Air Force has dismissed an officer after a court of inquiry found him guilty of having an affair with his colleague's wife, a charge considered grave in the armed forces. The officer, a Flight Lieutenant, was charged for having an affair with the wife of a superior officer of the rank of Squadron Leader.

The woman, who was also serving in the IAF as a Squadron Leader, allegedly committed suicide over the issue in Jodhpur last year. A court of inquiry was initiated into the suicide by the IAF during which evidence of the affair surfaced.

The dismissed officer has been identified as Flt Lt Ishant Sharma, a Su 30 MKI fighter pilot, who was based in Jodhpur. He had been charged with stealing the affection of a brother officer's wife and was recommended for dismissal by the South Western Command where the formal inquiry was held.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 10 Jul 2013 10:13

India gives green light to 70-90 seat aircraft programme

The Indian government has given the go ahead for the development of an indigenous civilian aircraft, a project that has been in limbo for years.

"The high level committee on manufacturing took a major strategic decision for the development of a civil aircraft, of a 70-90 seater range to begin with, in India," a statement from the prime minister's office said.

"This is a strategic sector where there is a need to have a presence in the long term, particularly in view of the rapid growth of our aviation sector," it added.

A special purpose vehicle will be set up for the development and production of the aircraft programme.

While the design capabilities of state-owned airframer Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) and research and development agency National Aerospace Laboratories (NAL) will be tapped on for the development of the aircraft, the country also expects to collaborate with companies in India's private sector as well as overseas institutions on the project.

"Efforts will be made to leverage the offsets that are available in the defense sector for building critical domestic capabilities in high precision manufacturing and avionics," the statement said.

A "high level steering group" will also be set up to work out details of the programme. At this point, it is unclear whether the aircraft will be a turboprop or a jet.

The proposal for India to develop its own regional transport aircraft programme first surfaced in 2007. Both HAL and NAL then undertook separate studies and a 16-member committee - including officials from HAL, NAL, the civil aviation ministry, research bodies and some Indian industrialists - was also formed.

Initial discussions centred around a 70-90 seat aircraft with a range of 1,350nm (2,500km). A composite airframe was also proposed along with an indigenous fly-by-wire control system.

The project has however been in limbo for years, and NAL told Flightglobal Pro in an interview last year that financing considerations have been a major reason for the delay.

NAL forecasts demand for up to 500 regional transport aircraft in India, from both commercial and military operators.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 10 Jul 2013 11:48

and we all talk about it from time to time and do nothing to develop one. Hope something happens at least now.

vic · Post by **vic** » 10 Jul 2013 12:09

I think the present design is neither here nor there. We should go in for Turboprop aircraft in the category of 50-70-90 seater and combine it with IAF replacement of Avro.

Similarly we should go for Turbojet in the category of 150-180-210 seater and combine it with MRTA.

While design of Military and Civilian version will be different but lot of technologies can be ported and synergies created.

Brando · Post by **Brando** » 10 Jul 2013 12:36

As usual the Government paper pushers and bean counters are LONG on talk and short on walking the walk. Such kind of naked delusions makes them and consequently the rest of us look stupid. India has neither the experience nor the manufacturing ability to produce a modern, safe and efficient passenger aircraft cheaply compared to even young companies like Embraer. The Government should get real and focus on first creating a wider aviation supplier base in the private industry and THEN tie up with a major player like Airbus or Boeing etc to build a low-cost 3rd tier airport service aircraft with the desired characteristics after surveying the international market carefully.

Civil aviation, especially low cost aviation between regional and sub-regional airports is extremely competitive and is going to be primarily private sector based and a private company is not going to buy some Indian aircraft built by some unknown manufacturer, with a poor supply chain, unknown safety record and experiment with the lives of their passengers. They will buy the cheapest, most efficient and safest aircraft from a known manufacturer with a record for safety and a solid supply chain.

There is nothing wrong with ambition, as long as it is quickly followed by a careful and methodical plan that is realistic, achievable and adaptable. This plan of building a civilian airliner has none of the above. The government would be better of not sinking tax payer money into this boondoggle and instead focus on expanding India's role in the Global aviation supply chain through friendly policies and infrastructure - this will earn India more foreign exchange and provide thousands of jobs at the same time with minimal risk.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 11 Jul 2013 08:54

vic wrote:I think the present design is neither here nor there. We should go in for Turboprop aircraft in the category of 50-70-90 seater and combine it with IAF replacement of Avro.

Similarly we should go for Turbojet in the category of 150-180-210 seater and combine it with MRTA.

While design of Military and Civilian version will be different but lot of technologies can be ported and synergies created.

the design requirements for a civilian jet and a transport are quite different and trying to fit in multiple such requirements into one design will result in a compromised design that isn't particularly good at either of the requirements. If the goal is to develop a regional jet, then its best to keep it that- a regional jet and not a transport aircraft.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 12 Jul 2013 23:39

India Readies for First Private Defense Project

India will likely extend the submission deadline of a request for proposals (RFP) to replace the Indian Air Force’s aging Avro/Hawker Siddeley HS.748M turboprops by another month, a defense ministry official told AIN. The deadline is currently October 8; however, manufacturers face a challenge in identifying private partners in India that have adequate facilities for final assembly and component and sub-system manufacture of the replacement aircraft.

Indian government-owned companies are not allowed to participate in the HS.748 replacement bid, a first for defense procurement. The winning vendor will be expected to deliver 16 aircraft in flyaway condition within two years and begin manufacturing another 40 in an Indian partner’s facility in five years, with all aircraft to be delivered within 120 months of the contract signing. The aircraft will have an integrated electronic warfare suite, which includes a Bharat Electronics radar warning receiver and missile approach warning system and Bharat Dynamics countermeasure dispensing system.

India’s defense ministry issued the RFP to eight companies in May. The likely contenders are Antonov’s An-26, the Ilyushin Il-112, Alenia Aermacchi C-27J and EADS Casa C-295. The Indian air force already operates more than 100 An-26s. “Our history with our Indian partners is long. Our aim is to establish this collaboration with our new [private] partners,” said Dmytro Kiva, Antonov president and general designer.

The RFP seeks proposals for “depot” level maintenance and lifecycle support and costs. A performance-based logistics package based on an average of 480 flying hours a year is also required. Recognizing the importance of lifecycle support, which has often been lacking from Russian vendors to India, Kiva said: “Earlier it was the government in charge. Now it is us. We have a training center; we provide warranties and delivery of parts.”

The Indian government-owned manufacturer, Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL), has been criticized for its inability to deliver on programs, but it has the necessary facilities for aircraft testing and manufacture, industry representatives said. While HAL cannot be the lead partner for the HS.748 replacement, it will be allowed to participate as a tier-one supplier.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 13 Jul 2013 15:33

How Indian aviation was destroyed

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 14 Jul 2013 14:09

AeroMag June Issue

http://www.aeromag.in/sites/default/fil ... %20res.pdf
http://www.aeromag.in/sites/default/fil ... %20res.pdf

neeraj · Post by **neeraj** » 14 Jul 2013 20:56

'Gigantic' Mi-26 helicopter lifts bulldozers for road construction in Uttarakhand

Having inducted four Mi-26s from Russia in the late-1980s, IAF is now left with only two of them.

They have used for heavy-lift operations, including the airlift of artillery guns to the Kargil heights during the 1999 conflict with Pakistan. "The Mi-26 will continue to operate in Uttarakhand to maintain supply of aviation fuel and rescue work as well as provide heli-lift to heavy equipment of the BRO for repair and construction work,'' said an officer.

IAF should get atleast 4 more Mi-26T. Chinooks can be used for regular work.

Hiten · Post by **Hiten** » 14 Jul 2013 21:31

IAF's successive DARIN upgrade programmes for its Jaguars
http://t.co/P1ZgUygkOM
http://t.co/lySkBHFt6a
http://t.co/fbkb27SmcU

RAF operating its C-130J from unpaved runways
http://t.co/ctiSK4ZtoW
http://t.co/wz3jURJagY

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 16 Jul 2013 13:53

In Uttarakhand, the under-played but crucial role of gutsy civilian pilots

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 17 Jul 2013 05:46

From Times Of India: Flying MiG-21 violates fundamental right to life, officer tells HC

NEW DELHI: Flying a MiG-21 amounted to "violation of his fundamental right to life", a serving wing commander has told the Delhi high court, seeking redressal after a regular flight exercise in 2005 went awry, leaving him with debilitating neck and back pain that has rendered him unfit for flying and even day-to-day tasks.

The court on Tuesday directed the Centre to provide a list of MiG-21 crashes that have taken place till date and posted the matter for October 10, 2013.

The petition was filed by Sanjeet Singh Kaila, a serving officer in the Indian Air Force, who cited "violation of his fundamental right to life, especially the right to work in a safe environment" under Article 21 of the Constitution.

In his plea, Kaila said he was posted at Air Force Station Nal in Rajasthan as a Squadron Leader in 2005. On January 4 that year, he embarked on a regular flight exercise along with three other pilots. "Immediately after take-off, the petitioner experienced a drift to the left side of the aircraft. Simultaneously, the petitioner was informed by the other pilot flying the second aircraft, of a fire at the rear end of his aircraft. Assessing the emergency, the petitioner promptly carried out all the essential directives and got the tyres of the aircraft down for a landing," the petition said.

"The petitioner performed all the aforementioned actions despite the rear of the aircraft being engulfed in thick fire. Despite a near-complete engine/control failure and at grave risk to his own life, the petitioner continued to stay put in an almost uncontrollable aircraft so as to steer it away to safety from a nearby village... To save human life, the petitioner ejected only seconds before the crash of the aircraft."

Kaila said following the incident, he was injured and later forced to discontinue flying after a comprehensive medical examination showed he was suffering from cervicalgia and disc bulges of vertebrae (cervical spine). "The medical report also clearly mentions that the petitioner was rendered unfit for flying duties because of the incident. He was additionally instructed and advised by the doctors to even refrain from performing even day-to-day tasks," it said.

The petition further alleged that a reply to his RTI application revealed that the incident was caused due to a manufacturing defect and poor workmanship at HAL's facility. Kaila claimed that despite sending a representation to the government on December 25, 2012, seeking justice by compensating him for the loss suffered by as a result of the air crash, no response was given by the government.
:
:

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 17 Jul 2013 08:19

Most rookie pilot find Mig-21 difficult to handle under some phases of flight , needs lot of skills and equal amount of experience to fly it as an ex ACM has mentioned.

According to IAF more crashes have occured due to pilot errors an effect of letting rookies pilot fly an aircraft that needs skills , the concept of carefree handling is not part of Mig-21 design philosophy.

So the choice before IAF is perhaps let the new pilot fly more advanced aircraft and the oldies experienced one fly the Mig .... not sure if this can impact a large pilot for the simple fact that Mig-21 still amounts to the most aircraft IAF.

Jaybhatt · Post by **Jaybhatt** » 17 Jul 2013 09:27

Austin wrote:Most rookie pilot find Mig-21 difficult to handle under some phases of flight , needs lot of skills and equal amount of experience to fly it as an ex ACM has mentioned.

According to IAF more crashes have occured due to pilot errors an effect of letting rookies pilot fly an aircraft that needs skills , the concept of carefree handling is not part of Mig-21 design philosophy.

So the choice before IAF is perhaps let the new pilot fly more advanced aircraft and the oldies experienced one fly the Mig .... not sure if this can impact a large pilot for the simple fact that Mig-21 still amounts to the most aircraft IAF.

I am not convinced this is a cogent argument. Letting "new pilots fly more advanced aircraft" is most convoluted logic.

The safety and airworthiness of the Mig-21 (including the modified, improved Bison version) has been the subject of debate and controversy for a long time. There have been serious allegations of bad craftsmanship in HAL as well as in the procurement of sub-standard spare parts from countries like Rumania etc. All this cannot be brushed under the table by putting the blame on rookie pilots.

The IAF, the GOI and the country need to introspect deeply. Young lives are being lost unnecessarily ; national assets are being wasted.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 17 Jul 2013 09:46

It is possible that HAL is doing some screw up by not making spares of desired quality or procuring from Eastern Europe sources not desirable but we dont have evidence to show either of two is the case for recent crashes.

IAF top brass has indicated that most crash are due to pilot fault which means Pilot find this aircraft difficult to master during their early days of flight ....considering Mig-21 is the type that IAF most fly today 270 was the number we came across some weeks ago then it is also the case that most young pilot fly Mig-21.

The only solution is dump the Mig-21 by tommorow so that rookie dont have to fly it which we know is not possible as IAF has recently stated it would fly it till 2018 or let new pilots fly more modern type known for care free handling qualities and let the more experienced one fly the Mig-21 .

I am sure many experienced pilot today in IAF would be flying the Mig-21 day in and out but those would still not be a significant percentage of pilots compared to the new one that fly it simply by the stastics of Mig-21 that IAF flies.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 17 Jul 2013 09:51

Letting "new pilots fly more advanced aircraft" is most convoluted logic.

More advanced aircrafts are much easier to fly - risks therefore are lower.

Jaybhatt · Post by **Jaybhatt** » 17 Jul 2013 10:00

Austin wrote:It is possible that HAL is doing some screw up by not making spares of desired quality or procuring from Eastern Europe sources not desirable but we dont have evidence to show either of two is the case for recent crashes.

IAF top brass has indicated that most crash are due to pilot fault which means Pilot find this aircraft difficult to master during their early days of flight ....considering Mig-21 is the type that IAF most fly today 270 was the number we came across some weeks ago then it is also the case that most young pilot fly Mig-21.

The only solution is dump the Mig-21 by tommorow so that rookie dont have to fly it which we know is not possible as IAF has recently stated it would fly it till 2018 or let new pilots fly more modern type known for care free handling qualities and let the more experienced one fly the Mig-21 .

I am sure many experienced pilot today in IAF would be flying the Mig-21 day in and out but those would still not be a significant percentage of pilots compared to the new one that fly it simply by the stastics of Mig-21 that IAF flies.

With respect : it is difficult, if not impossible, to decipher what you mean.

However, I am clear on one point : blaming dead pilots by ascribing the fault to them, as the IAF has been doing for years, is disgraceful and dishonourable. Dead warriors cannot defend themselves.

In any case, I take my hats off to the young Wing Commander who has picked up the courage to tell the Delhi High Court of his horrendous experience with the aircraft during a routine sortie. Wing Commander Kaila, a serving IAF officer, has said in his affidavit that it is a violation of his fundamental right to be forced to fly an aircraft that is structurally unsafe.

Jaybhatt · Post by **Jaybhatt** » 17 Jul 2013 10:04

NRao wrote:
Letting "new pilots fly more advanced aircraft" is most convoluted logic.
More advanced aircrafts are much easier to fly - risks therefore are lower.

More advanced aircraft also need extensive training and skill development. There is a grave logical problem here : you want rookie pilots to fly "advanced" aircraft which, by definition, require extensive expertise. There is an entire phase of sophisticated training and skill acquisition that you are just wishing away.