Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

[maitya]

India to deploy 50,000 additional troops along China border.

Boosting Army's war fighting capabilities along the line of actual control (LAC), the government on Wednesday has given the go ahead to the creation of a corps including deployment of 50,000 additional troops along the China border at a cost of around Rs 65,000 crore.
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As part of the plans, the around 1.3 million-strong Army is expected to raise the new corps' headquarters at Panagarh in West Bengal along with two divisions in Bihar and Assam and other units from Ladakh in Jammu & Kashmir to Arunachal Pradesh.
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As per the plans, the IAF will also deploy its force multiplier assets such as six each mid-air refuelling tankers and C-130J Super Hercules special operations aircraft at Panagarh.
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The Army will also get a number of new armoured and artillery divisions along with it to be deployed along the northeast region.

What I find intriguing in this whole report is complete radio-silence on the aviation brigade/corp, that was sanctioned a couple of days back - here: Army to get Rudra choppers, armed with missiles and rockets in Aug
Moreover, this report talked about each of these brigades having atleast a squadron of attack helicopters - no mention of anything of that sort as well (but does mention about the fixed-wing assets).
I thought Mountain Strike formations would be needing air-assualt/air-support components more than any those on the plains.

Added Later: It'd interesting to see how the Arty brigades would be formed i.e. will they be "independent" (but part of the corps anyway) or will it get co-located with the Infantry Divisions (with a single Div Hq etc.).
The equipment would be the M-777s, no doubt (betw, where exactly do we stand currently on that FMS procurement cycle). The last we heard on this was almost an year back here: India to purchase US M777 Howitzers from BAE Systems.

I say this because my understanding is that for Mountainous operations (with inherent mobility constraints), it makes more sense to co-locate with Infantry divisions (maybe even at battilion level) - but I can be completely wrong as well.

[Austin]

Mountain corps to counter China needs much more than just money

The budget of Rs. 64,000 crore for the new corps is to be spent over seven years - which is just as well since raising new formations as large as a Corps is not an easy task. It is further difficult to make that formation capable of mountain warfare. For mountains gobble up troops; they take a heavy toll on man and machine. Living at altitudes upwards of 12,000 feet and going upto 22,000 feet requires extreme fitness levels. The Himalayas - along which the entire 4,000 km China frontier is spread out - is an unforgiving terrain.

So green-lighting a budget, however large, is in some ways, the easiest part.

What will be crucial for the new corps is cooperation and coordination between a muscular omnibus of stake-holders: The Defence, Finance and Environment Ministries, as well as the Army, Air Force and Border Roads Organisation.

In the recent past, objections from the Environment Ministry have impeded upon the construction of crucial roads in Arunachal Pradesh, Sikkim, Himachal Pradesh, Ladakh and Uttarakhand. In the last case, the lack of connectivity was driven home brutally when torrential rains ripped open the state last month, leaving thousands stranded.

It is nobody's case that the environment should not be protected but a balance needs to struck in caring for the environment and national security imperatives. The state governments will need to back the plan by facilitating the speedy allotment of land in remote areas.

The climate in most of these states means that the Border Roads Organisation can leverage, at best, a four-month season to deliver new routes.

Similarly, establishing permanent infrastructure for troops, including hubs that supply ammunition, and deciding strategically-placed artillery gun positions is a long -term and complicated process.

Finding the right contractors with the right skills and willingness to work on isolated, remote areas is another big challenge. The Indian Air Force, for instance, has been trying for three years to sign contracts that will lead the upgrading seven Advanced Landing Grounds or ALGS, crucial for the ability to quickly airlift troops to strategic parts along the China border. But the deals have not been closed because expert contractors find it difficult to work in these areas.

The new mountain corps will require light artillery which can be easily transported, even airlifted in the highest mountains. Given India's painfully-slow process of weapons acquisition, empowering the Mountain Strike Corps quickly will be a big challenge.

Given these difficulties, Beijing will not be unduly bothered although it will certainly make the mandatory noises may be by describing the Indian decision as provocative.

It is all the more necessary for the government to walk the talk in making the new formation a reality by adhering to timelines.

[rohitvats]

Mountain corps to counter China needs much more than just money<SNIP>

Brainless article written for the sake of it.

All that he mentions is not peculiar to MSC - more pertinent to formations already sitting on LAC and which need to rush forward to defend the sectors.

[rohitvats]

What I find intriguing in this whole report is complete radio-silence on the aviation brigade/corp, that was sanctioned a couple of days back - here: Army to get Rudra choppers, armed with missiles and rockets in Aug

Moreover, this report talked about each of these brigades having at least a squadron of attack helicopters - no mention of anything of that sort as well (but does mention about the fixed-wing assets). I thought Mountain Strike formations would be needing air-assault/air-support components more than any those on the plains.

There is nothing intriguing about the news.

No one, save the Indian Army and MOD, know about exact configuration of the MSC and its constituent elements. So, whether MSC and its divisions will have Rudra and LCH or Apaches is anybody's guess as we speak. Things will only become clear to common public like us when formations start taking shape. In fact, one of the reason cited for such a humongous cost for raising the MSC (close to USD 10 Billion) is because it is likely to involve very strong vertical component.

BTW, the entire cost is not for MSC - IMO, this also includes the independent armored and infantry brigade for Ladakh and independent brigade for Uttarakhand.

Added Later: It'd interesting to see how the Arty brigades would be formed i.e. will they be "independent" (but part of the corps anyway) or will it get co-located with the Infantry Divisions (with a single Div Hq etc.). The equipment would be the M-777s, no doubt (betw, where exactly do we stand currently on that FMS procurement cycle). The last we heard on this was almost an year back here: India to purchase US M777 Howitzers from BAE Systems.

I say this because my understanding is that for Mountainous operations (with inherent mobility constraints), it makes more sense to co-locate with Infantry divisions (maybe even at battilion level) - but I can be completely wrong as well.

Independent is not some fancy term as you make it out to be - a formation not under a division but reporting directly to Corps/Command/Army HQ is called an independent formation - deployed as per the direction of higher Command HQ.

That said - each Division will have its integral artillery bde with at least 5 x artillery regiments and as is the general norm, Corps HQ will also have an (I) Artillery Bde reporting to it.

The game changer is the new approved Artillery Division - which will be repository of Brahmos and Prahaar Missile Regiments and IMO, have strong vertical movement assets to allow 'maneuver by fire' in mountainous terrain of AP and Sikkim.

[vaibhav.n]

Identify Beret Badge

[vaibhav.n]

Rohit,Quick Question, Is 9 Bde Independent? AFAIK, 6 Div has 99 Bde on the Chaubatia-Almora Axis another 69 Bde at the Pithoragarh-Dharchula and also at Uttarkashi-Harsil corridor. That sites the Independent brigade bang in the middle across a very wide frontage for 6 Div.

Spoken like a true orbat junkie!!!

Yes, 9 Bde is an independent formation. In addition to 2 x Scouts Battalion in the area (Kumaon and Gharwal), has additional infantry battalions. Including an Animal Transport Battalion.

Coming to 6 MD, of the three bdes, two as you've mentioned are in UK. Third bde, IIRC is in Saharanpur with Division HQ in Bareilly. It is Army HQ reserve and tasked for central sector in UK to Kashmir Sector, as the case may be. In 1999, it was initially supposed to lead the effort instead of 8 MD; it was located south of Zojila Pass in Sonamarg area.

Thanks for your answer!! I was not aware that 9 Bde was independent.

I am sorry i did not frame my question correctly, there is another mountain infantry brigade deployed at Uttarkashi-Harsil. I am not aware if this is the 3rd Bde of 6 Div. Are not independent Brigades tasked to handle different/standalone sub-sectors? Is it a rule rather than the norm?

Interestingly, Uttrakhand also has 3 (TA) Infantry Battalions in addition to the above.

[rohitvats]

Thanks for your answer!! I was not aware that 9 Bde was independent.

I am sorry i did not frame my question correctly, there is another mountain infantry brigade deployed at Uttarkashi-Harsil. I am not aware if this is the 3rd Bde of 6 Div. Are not independent Brigades tasked to handle different/standalone sub-sectors? Is it a rule rather than the norm?

Interestingly, Uttarakhand also has 3 (TA) Infantry Battalions in addition to the above.

vaibhav.n - I made a mistake in earlier post. The third bde of 6 MD is in Shahjahanpur (and not Saharanpur as I wrote earlier). I think it is 167 Infantry Bde.

I'm not aware of an infantry bde being deployed in the area (Uttarkashi-Harsil) you've mentioned. There has been a proposal for raising an (I) Infantry Bde Group for UK but I'm not aware of the development on the ground.

[abhik]

...The equipment would be the M-777s, no doubt (betw, where exactly do we stand currently on that FMS procurement cycle). The last we heard on this was almost an year back here: India to purchase US M777 Howitzers from BAE Systems.

I think the M777 FMS deal is very unlikely. Last fiscal year that the deal was deffered due to the budget constraints. But this year the fiscal condition is even worse. So optimistically one can expect a deal only next year. But IIRC the M777 production line is to close some time this year. If I an not wrong once the plant closes, FMS may not be possible.

[rohitvats]

^^^As usual, we can't take a decision on time. Well, we know we need that gun as of yesterday. And in huge numbers. Why not get the manufacturer to put up a plant in India? With the amount of formations engaged in mountainous areas, our requirement is going to be more than what would have been total order till date.

For example, if we decide to equip 3 x regiments per division in NE ( 9 existing divisions + 2 from MSC) with M777, we would required 3 x 11 x 18 = ~600 guns!!! One could further add for formations in Ladakh/Kargil/Kashmir/Uttarakhand. If we make 4 x Regiments per division, we would reach ~800 guns.

Till date, the order for M777 (as per wiki) stands at <1,500 guns and this includes 145 from India.

[abhik]

^^^May not be such a bad thing IMO. As long as it is transported by road any Boforse-esk system will have a massive advantage both in range and rate of fire.

[pragnya]

^^^From what I could gather, the army component came from 9 (I) Mountain Bde at Joshimath and mountain bde of 6 Mountain Division based in Uttarakhand. The Area HQ being mentioned in the article above is UP Area HQ based in Bareilly.

Rohit,

Quick Question, Is 9 Bde Independent? AFAIK, 6 Div has 99 Bde on the Chaubatia-Almora Axis another 69 Bde at the Pithoragarh-Dharchula and also at Uttarkashi-Harsil corridor. That sites the Independent brigade bang in the middle across a very wide frontage for 6 Div.

vaibhav,

i have 'absolutely' no idea of the orbat. i am just passing this link which i happened to see months back which might be of interest to you and may answer your question.

A vignette history of India’s 6 Division
v. 1.0 April 23, 2012

by Mandeep S. Bajwa and Ravi Rikhye

[vaibhav.n]

^^^ Thanks a lot!!

So, It became an Indep Bde possibly re-orbatted sometime later from 6 Div.

[vaibhav.n]

Off-Topic, but one of the most illustrated pieces to come out on Afghanistan in recent times by William Dalrymple. Worth Reading!!

Link 1
Excerpts from the conversation:
Link2

[ramana]

Rohitvats, How does Panagarh affect any ops in J&K?

[rohitvats]

Identify Beret Badge

vaibhav.n - I must say I'm foxed.

And only guess that I have is that the men belong to 411 Parachute Field Company of Bombay Sappers.

I thought of them as belonging to Pathfinder Company of the 50 Para Bde (which is served IMO by troops from PBG) but again, the badge does not match.

I had a more wilder guess - 1 Archer but again...I assume 1 Archer to have same badge as parent formation.

[rohitvats]

Rohitvats, How does Panagarh affect any ops in J&K?

Tough question - but in short, Indian capability to mount rapid (relatively) operations in mountainous areas creates lot of problems for PA in Kashmir Sector.

IMO - MSC is perfect candidate to do what Sundarji tried to do in 1987 - i.e. take back POK through application of 2+ division strength and that too, in dead of winter. He had moved 4 Infantry Division and 6 Mountain Division for this. From the note about 6 MD appended by pragnya:

In 1986, in a remarkable rapid airlift , it was flown into Leh for Operation Trident, which was aborted.

Even in the past mobilizations of 1999 and 2001/2002, IA did not hesitate to withdraw as many as 3.5 Divisions from NE based formations. Also, one Corps HQ. And this, when 4 Corps and 3 Corps had not been beefed up with 1 x Infantry Division each.

So, IA could move 4 divisions from NE (including 2 from MSC) and still maintain the status-quo as obtained before fresh round of raising after 2005. While 2 x Divisions could go to other sectors, MSC can move lock, stock and barrel into J&K. That USD 10 billion
price tag means it is going to have strong organic helicopter assets.

Creates lots of force ration problems for PA in J&K. It could land behind PA defenses in front or completely isolate one sector from another bottling up troops in their areas and crushing them.

[ramana]

Soon after 2008, there was chatter among th e experts that the way to counter TSP was to have more troops like say three to six divisons. I think this MSC is dual front formation based on its location to tranpsoration hubs and its composition. Good move.

[rohitvats]

Soon after 2008, there was chatter among th e experts that the way to counter TSP was to have more troops like say three to six divisons. I think this MSC is dual front formation based on its location to tranpsoration hubs and its composition. Good move.

ramana - from what I know, 7-11 divisions were envisaged. 4 are already a done deal. More could follow. I'd say watch-out for Ladakh sector.

[member_22906]

vaibhav.n, I thinks its a sappers badge. I know engineers have a fort in the background in their ensignia, but they also use this one. I think the badge has Sarvatra written below the flame torch.

By the way, Savatra Izzat-o-Iqbal is the motto of Arty. Interestingly sappers and gunners have a common origin

[vaibhav.n]

Rohit/Ajay,

My best guess would be Bombay Sappers too, the badge has a close resemblance to the Grenadiers "Flaming Grenade" which the Bombay Sappers have as an insignia like most sappers around the world. Never knew it was worn as a beret badge though! Or could be something as simple as an Signals or EME guy from the Parachute Bde.

Cheers!!

1 Archers would be a very long shot.

[member_22906]

Grenadiers flame is different but surely not EME (Horse with thunderbolt) or Signals (Sprinting Mercury)

[ManuT]

Gen Bikram Singh at India Today Conclave Apr 2013

Full video


short video

[Manish_Sharma]

^^Sad commentary on us Bharatvasis.

This porki m^&*^%(d quotes our own newspaper the 'chinu' that pravin swamy and our own home minister Shri Chidambaram to make points against our own army.

[Victor]

^^Sad commentary on us Bharatvasis.

How so? I thought the general kicked the paki in the teeth and highlighted the differences between our countries. In India, even ass-wipe grade papers have freedom to print whatever they want without fear.

[Sid]

He gave a peace loving democratic "slap" to that Porki.

And I agree with his point on AFSPA. Revoke it and get screwed by insurgents. Its every jannnat-loving-porky dream come true. Half the time army will end up fighting courts then insurgents.

Look at US army, no bloody law applies on their army when they fight. They can flatten half a country and still eat burgers in the evening. Why? Because their country is behind them no matter what to achieve national objective.

And here our own stupid enlightened journalists are talking about Army blocking sale of our own land as a bargaining chip for peace with Porkis? Why isn't Porki side of J&K on table for discussion, all we hear is Siachin and Kashmir valley.

For how long is this country supposed to act like Mahatma Gandhi aka peace loving country? It's time to punch and break teeth when someone even "thinks" about slapping us.

<OT> apologies for the rant </OT>

[Murugan]

ADGPI - Indian Army
TOP JEM COMMANDER ELIMINATED IN LOLAB

Lolab, Kupwara, 23 Jul 13

Based on specific intelligence about presence of hardcore terrorist commander in Garwar area of Lolab, Kupwara District, a joint operation was launched by the Army units deployed in Lolab and the JK Police personnel, resulting into elimination of the top most commander of the Jaish-e-Mohammad terrorist outfit. It was a fine example of surgical operation based on credible information and synergy between Security Forces.

On the night of 22-23 July, information was received about movement of Kari Yasir, the top most commander of Jaish-e-Mohammad. Five columns of Rashtriya Rifles units accompanied by JK Police personnel were launched. The area was cordoned during hours of darkness. At the outbreak of daylight, a suspicious movement was observed. When challenged, the terrorist opened up intense fire at the troops which was effectively retaliated, resulting into his elimination. Later, the JK Police identified the terrorist as Kari Yasir, the top most Jaish Commander who has been operating in District Kupwara over past 7 to 8 years. One AK 47 Rifle with three magazines and three grenades were recovered from his body. He was instrumental in facilitating guidance of the infiltrating terrorist columns of all the tanzeems across the Line of Control, organising reception and dispatching them to various places to cause violence and to spread terror. Elimination of Kari Yasir will result into a big jolt to the terror network operating in Kashmir Valley.

[Sanku]

Ex-army chief threatens to put documents in public domain

Former Army Chief V K Singh has threatened to put in public domain all documents related to his claim of a Rs 14 crore bribe offer made by a retired officer to clear a tranche of "sub-standard" vehicles, if CBI fails to pursue the case. "Let CBI say they are not going to pursue the case and I will put it out (in public domain) immediately and I am quite sure," Gen (retd) Singh told a news channel, when asked if he was willing to put the documents in public domain.

[Manish_Sharma]

Nice sketch for mushy & por army!

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =1&theater

[krishnan]

Narendra Modi
Salute to valour & courage of our Armed Forces who gave their lives for the Nation in Kargil war. Tributes to their sacrifices on Vijay Diwas.

The legendary song sung by Lata ji "Ae Mere Watan Ke Logon" marks its Golden Jubilee Year. Dedicating it to our Armed Forces. http://nm4.in/173VLE4

[Manish_Sharma]

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/on-t ... 96304.html

On the 14th anniversary of Kargil, the nation should take stock of our martyrs' widows

Jugal Purohit

New Delhi, July 25, 2013 | UPDATED 23:54 IST

On a day which marks 14 years of evicting Pakistani intruders from the icy peaks of Kargil, when flowery tributes are paid, the stories of two widows stand out as reminders of the cold tokenism that the Indian state has dished out to those who fought against all odds, when its survival was challenged. The ordeal these two widows have undergone may make every serving soldier think twice before laying down their lives for the nation.

For over 40 years, Shyama Devi, the widow of Mahavir Chakra (MVC) awardee Lance Naik Ram Ugra Pandey, who made the supreme sacrifice during the 1971 operations, has been fighting. First, for her pension and then for the medal allowance and facilities she was entitled to. Now in her mid-sixties, "I have had enough. My husband died for this nation, nothing less. Yet, our lives have been ruined. I am returning this MVC medal on August 15," she said.

Living in a house with dilapidated roof and unstable walls, she has written to everyone from the Prime Minister, the President to the state Chief Minister for help but to no avail. Sub/Maj Lt. (retd) Kameshwar Pandey, member of Indian Ex-Servicemen Movement (IESM), a veterans' organisation, has taken up her case. "I feel appalled about how the Indian state has let her down. Her application papers are simply moving between government offices without any outcome," said Pandey.

Another heartbreaking case is that of 32-year-old Daxina Kumari. But for the members of the Dogra Scout unit her husband was a part of, the widow would have broken down after the treatment she received at the hands of babus. Her late husband, Havaldar Laxman Kumar, was posted along the Line of Actual Control (LAC) facing the Chinese troops. While on duty as guard commander, at 9:15pm on August 15, 2009, he relieved himself to attend nature's call. On his way he slipped, suffered a head injury and passed away four days later. Even though his death was declared as 'attributable to service in an operational area', the ex-gratia relief of Rs 10 lakh as applicable to such deaths was denied by the Principal Controller of Defence Accounts (PCDA) of the Ministry of Defence (MoD) on the grounds that her husband was not on duty since he was answering nature's call.

However, after a prolonged legal effort, on July 24, the Chandigarh bench of the Armed Forces Tribunal directed the MoD to release her amount of Rs 10 lakh along with interest of 10 per cent. "No widow should undergo what I had to. Losing my husband was bad enough," she said.

This correspondent had written to the Directorate of Public Relations (DPR), the publicity arm of the MoD, asking if they would take up the case of these widows. No reply, however, was received from them.

[SSridhar]

Defence Ministry Probing Irregularity Charges in Howitzer Deal with the US

It was a Govt-to-Govt contract and yet there are irregularities ? This must be the handiwork of an interested party or by the Chinese to delay the procurement.

The deal is at an advanced stage and India and the US authorities are negotiating the offsets and other aspects of the contract.

While the negotiations are underway, the defence ministry received an anonymous letter alleging irregularity on part of a top Army officer who has since retired.

Taking cognizance of this complaint, the Defence Ministry is probing the allegations through in internal inquiry, sources told PTI here.

The Ministry is also likely to seek comments of the Army headquarters on this issue, they said.

The proposed deal has been mired in one controversy or the other since its early days.

The Rs 3,000 crore deal was approved by the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) in October last year.

Prior to its approval, the Defence Ministry had sought the report of a committee on whether to go ahead with the procurement after the leakage of the trial reports of the M-777 howitzer.

The leaked report had suggested that the guns had underperformed during the trials and the Army was not happy with it.

The Ministry had then formed a Committee under then DRDO Chief V K Saraswat to submit a report whether the procurement should be realised or not.

The deal was given a go ahead only after Saraswat gave it clearance.

[member_23455]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

It can always be someone's case that the FMS route was chosen due to lobbying/bribes. Investigate it within 3 months, put up the findings in public, and move on...

[putnanja]

Not sure if this was posted before here..

READY FOR HARD-CORPS ACTION

A quiet revolution has taken place in India's military thinking. For the first time since the humiliating defeat of 1962, the Indian elephant has stopped fearing the fire-breathing Chinese dragon. The elephant has, in fact, started scaring the dragon.

On July 17, the Cabinet Committee on Security gave its green signal to raise an attack (strike) corps against China in the eastern sector, the first of its kind against the giant northern neighbour, and has sanctioned Rs.64,000 crore.

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[VinodTK]

From The Economic Times: Indian Army most influential in Asia Pacific region: US General

WASHINGTON: The Indian Army is by far the most influential in the Asia Pacific region, a top American General today said as he stressed on the importance of building military-to-military relationship between the two countries.

"As is in many of the Asia-Pacific countries, the Army is the dominant service in those countries. India is a prime example. It is by far the largest service. It is by far the most influential," US Army Chief of Staff General Raymond T Odierno said.

"It is important for us to build army-to-army relations as we continue to re-balance the Asia- Pacific region," he told a Washington audience.

Odierno recently returned from a trip to India during which he met his Indian counterpart and held a wide range of discussions with the top Indian military leadership. He also travelled to the Northern Command.

"The first comments about India, specifically, is, one of things we have to remember is, we have to make sure they maintain their own strategic autonomy. And we do things in line with them to help build capacity, help learn from each other," he said.

"One thing we realised we have so much in common, the two largest democracies in the world, we are two very professional armies, and there is much we can do to learn from each other," Odierno said in response to a question at the American Enterprise Institute (AEI) -- a Washington-based think tank.

"We talked a lot about the way ahead in the region, the importance of operations in the region. They took me up to their northern command, which is their most important command, which is responsible for the borders of Pakistan and China," he said.

"I had the chance to meet with their staff and their commanders, and what really caught me was the fact that, what they have been doing for the past 20 years, is what we have been doing for the past 12, counter-insurgency, protecting their space, there's a lot of lessons learned that they have that we have. And so, there is a lot of knowledge that we can share," the US General said.

"So I think that will be the basis of the continued relationship, is the sharing of information about what they face on a day-to-day basis up in the Kashmir area, with Pakistan, as well with China, as you just talked about with a minor incursion not too long ago...," he said.

He added that the two countries have a lot in common, in sharing lessons, in professional development, a lot in developing future leaders, a lot in understanding techniques on what they see will be potentially prominent as they deal with future problems, not only around the world, whether it be there or the Middle East, there's some commonality.

[member_22539]

Not sure if this was posted before here..

READY FOR HARD-CORPS ACTION

A quiet revolution has taken place in India's military thinking. For the first time since the humiliating defeat of 1962, the Indian elephant has stopped fearing the fire-breathing Chinese dragon. The elephant has, in fact, started scaring the dragon.

On July 17, the Cabinet Committee on Security gave its green signal to raise an attack (strike) corps against China in the eastern sector, the first of its kind against the giant northern neighbour, and has sanctioned Rs.64,000 crore.

...
...

Good read, thanks.

[SSridhar]

From The Economic Times: Indian Army most influential in Asia Pacific region: US General

"As is in many of the Asia-Pacific countries, the Army is the dominant service in those countries. India is a prime example. It is by far the largest service. It is by far the most influential," US Army Chief of Staff General Raymond T Odierno said.

I am not sure if the headline tallies with what actually the US Commander said.

[Lalmohan]

what he actually said was

1. i can't believe that their army follows democratic principles and doesn't want to run their country!!??!!
2. gee, they've been fighting raghead badguys for longer than we have, we might learn summin'!

[Philip]

The Week "Hard Corps" feature was a heartening read,however,one must temper one's enthusiasm with some hard facts.The infrastructure required for the border areas is behind schedule,from many earlier reports.It is not as rosy as pictured.The recent UKhand disaster highlighted the vulnerability of this infrastructure.It is naive to also think that the Chinese cannot do what we can-attack and destroy elements of our infrastructure,with their huge tactical missile inventory,which can easily be augmented by airlift to their 8 airfields/ bases. We are actually more dependent upon heavylift helos and the shortage in number has hampered transportation of road building heavy eqpt.Apart from the tactical transport Chinooks of which we need double the number being sought,more MI-26s are needed also for airlifting heavy eqpt. which Chinooks cannot handle,and as was seen in the Afghan spat,MI-26s recovered downed Chinooks too!

Nevertheless,the change in attitude is the most welcome,that from being purely defensive earlier,to one that believes that "offence is the best form of defence". This alone should make the Chinese pause and reflect upon their recent arrogant actions,that is if they have enough of common sense.Should thre need arise,the Indian armed forces should combinedly counterattack China "tous azimuth" .

[ramana]

Philip, The MSC and Panagarh in WB near transportation hubs is to take on TSP. Its not to liberate Sinkiang or East Turkestan.

[Hiten]