Indian Railways Thread

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Jul 2013 08:04

the bottom deck is a lot lower than normal wagons. so the CG of coach is likely not much higher than single decker. wind shear effects will be different due to higher surface area...I am sure this has been modelled to decide speed limits.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 11 Jul 2013 23:18

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-23193045
In pictures: Kashmir train link

Few Good Pictures

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 12 Jul 2013 06:19

Jhujar wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-23193045
In pictures: Kashmir train link

Few Good Pictures

Eagerly awaiting to see IRFCA videos of WDG5 hauling a 28-coach Baramullah-Ernakulam Superfast. Just a few more years

.

Christopher Sidor · Post by **Christopher Sidor** » 15 Jul 2013 19:20

SaiK wrote: how safe are double deckers? i am sure it can't be as fast as regular trains.

Nope they cannot be as fast as regular trains but they are comparably fast. The TGV has significant amount of its coaches as double decker coaches. But TGV is different from what we in India and Germany employ as their passenger trains. They do enhance the capacity of the trains, but they do not double it. Further the tracks have to be strengthened.

What I would like to know is that how do these double-decker-trains that we have designed fare during the monsoons and cyclones of India. Are they like Standard gauge trains which have to stop their service, when winds reach a certain speed?

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 18 Jul 2013 16:59

Train to Kashmir:
http://youtu.be/OMVFNBrk69A

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 24 Jul 2013 13:08

A public announcement that a passenger was trapped prompted about 40 people to join train officials to push the carriage, whose suspension system allows it to lean to either side, according to the Yomiuri newspaper, Japan's largest daily.

We should try to get this technology

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 24 Jul 2013 16:58

prahaar wrote:Train to Kashmir:
http://youtu.be/OMVFNBrk69A

prahaar Ji :

At about 6 minutes onward I have noticed 5 or 6 Men and a Lady with a Child entering the Train Operator-Driver's Cabin.

I have never before seen Non-Railway people in such numbers enter the Driver's or Guard's Cabin.

Is it now becoming normal for the Operator-Driver-Guard to take on normal passengers into his Cabin?

Cheers

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Jul 2013 17:29

these DEMUs may be smooth riding but dont have the contractor grade rumble and thump of the conventional WDG BG locos. looks consumer grade.

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 24 Jul 2013 17:38

Peregrine wrote:
prahaar wrote:Train to Kashmir:
http://youtu.be/OMVFNBrk69A

prahaar Ji :

At about 6 minutes onward I have noticed 5 or 6 Men and a Lady with a Child entering the Train Operator-Driver's Cabin.

I have never before seen Non-Railway people in such numbers enter the Driver's or Guard's Cabin.

Is it now becoming normal for the Operator-Driver-Guard to take on normal passengers into his Cabin?

Cheers

Actually it is quite common (especially in commuter trains). For example, in Mumbai suburban train aka "local" in Mumbaiya lingo . Since this train is also a "local train", I am not surprised. Although, given the security situation in J&K, it would do good, if friends and relatives are not permitted, or for that matter, anywhere. But if you noticed, the extra passengers were entering the back-side loco.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 24 Jul 2013 19:44

prahaar wrote:
Jhujar wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-23193045
In pictures: Kashmir train link

Few Good Pictures
Eagerly awaiting to see IRFCA videos of WDG5 hauling a 28-coach Baramullah-Ernakulam Superfast. Just a few more years .

Your wish will be granted sooner than you expect. It is just a question of extension of Himsagar express to Baramullah. Could be done in next budget.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 26 Jul 2013 11:45

Prahar, you might end up doing this...

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 26 Jul 2013 14:28

Quite evidently , there is unmet demand. Need more.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Jul 2013 17:06

they dont look like travellers - note total lack of women, older people and children. no luggage either.
they look like "student activists" out to catch a free joyride or launch some protest against "indian atrocities"

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 26 Jul 2013 17:57

Is traveling on train tops still allowed?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 26 Jul 2013 19:11

SaiK, was it ever 'allowed' ?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 26 Jul 2013 23:52

when I asked that question, I did not mean by books, but by enforcement? meaning.. haven't railway cops be more serious about this? I am thinking we are advancing on basic things in life.. start with safety in the first place.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 29 Jul 2013 05:26

Railways plans captive nuclear plants to cut rising fuel bill

NEW DELHI: Reeling under financial stress, railways is planning to set up captive nuclear power plants which will help the national transporter cut its fuel bill substantially and contribute to energy security.

"We are in talks with Nuclear Power Corporation to set up power plants at existing nuclear sites," Kul Bhushan, member (electrical), railway board, said.

The transporter will soon sign an MoU with the government PSU and is also exploring some options in Uttar Pradesh, Haryana, Karnataka and Tamil Nadu.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 29 Jul 2013 09:53

SSridhar wrote:SaiK, was it ever 'allowed' ?

No but who will stop them , You see trains in Bihar and UP people still travel on top for some routes. Forget Bihar during rush hour even in Mumbai local some people travel on top , many have lost their life that way.

Arunkumar · Post by **Arunkumar** » 29 Jul 2013 10:06

^^^What the duck!!!. Railways seems to be interested in setting up everything except run trains faster and increase track penetration. My fear is they might run the plants with the same commitment to safety as they run trains.
On a serious note, is this a way to get small nuclear plants into India on the sly. Something like Westing house SMR which generates 225 mw.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 29 Jul 2013 10:24

Good step. To save monies the railways should insist on indegenous nucler reactors. This will save railways huge amount as planned as also foreign currency for trade. Otherwise it just may be one type of imported fuel to another with less and less scope for indegenous maneuvering for better tech/efficiency. For nuke tech there is no point to be stuck with foreign tech for decades.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 29 Jul 2013 19:25

I am hoping they start electrification on more routes. Also more than speed what we need urgently is double tracking of existing commerical routes. Example trains from Mumbai going south towards Chennai, Bangalore and Hyderabad have to use single track between Daund and Wadi which is approx 400 - 500 Km worth of distance. Considering the volumes this portion should have been double tracked decades ago.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 29 Jul 2013 19:45

yup! at least it will stop them doing the train top rides..

on re-inventing the tracks, is there any new design available for next gen needs? i am looking at safety especially after seeing that spain accident.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 29 Jul 2013 22:31

JOURNEY FROM BANIHAL TO QAZIGUND . Inside the Tunnel

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Jul 2013 12:42

electrification needs a long tail of wiring and power infra to make it work. imho diesel is more rough n ready for our situation esp until such time funds are urgently needed for double tracks and replacement of bridges and culverts decades old that limit the speed for safety.

most of the day trip high volume inter-city 5-8 hr routes are already electrified I think...between each of the 6 biggest cities and spokes from them.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 30 Jul 2013 17:58

sure.. but if you are thinking on fossil fuel, then we should jump ahead for hydrogen/fuel cells.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 30 Jul 2013 21:05

http://m.economictimes.com/news/news/by ... 360511.cms

GUJARAT: Ahmedabad metro rail will be driverless and broad gauge project, said a top expert involved in the project. The broad gauge will result in savings of Rs 1,000 crore in capital expenditure and Rs 20 crore annually in operational expenditure. A Design Advisory Committee for the project has given a go ahead after considering pros and cons versus the standard metrog uage.

"Metro Expresslink for Gandhinagar and Ahmedabad (MEGA), the company in charge of the project, has zeroed in on Broad Gauge on the basis of recommendations of members ofDAC and their report submitted earlier to the State Government. In the last Technical Advisory Committee (TAC), the report by the Gauge Committee was discussed and it was decided to do further study in detail to arrive at more informed decision," said an official of MEGA.

France-based metro rail consultants M/s Egis Rail has been appointed by MEGA to undertake a comparitive Cost Benefit Analysis of Broad Guage (BG) and Standard Guage. The findings of its report were placed before the DAC and all the members unanimously accepted it.

The report claimed that there will be cost saving on infrastructure and system, rolling stock and also on operation and maintenance on ongoing basis. By selecting BG there will cost saving on civil cost of stations by around 15%, on viaducts by around 2% and on depot by around 7%. The higher capacity of wider coaches of BG will reduce the requirement of the number of coaches and MEGA will save around 11% on rolling stock.

The total cost benefit for rolling stock and infrastructure and system in capital cost will be more than Rs 1,000 crore and Rs 20 crore per year in operation and Maintenance. Core infrastructure works will begin in fourth quarter of year 2013 and Phase I is scheduled to be completed by August, 2017. The entire project including Phase II will be fully operational in March 2021.

MEGA metro rail project will see adoption of latest technology, cutting edge civil infrastructure, and futuristic control mechanism. It will be India's first driverless metro system, resulting in low operations & maintenance cost, increased frequency and safety.

The DAC comprises of M Ravindra, Ex. Chairman Railway Board and Ex officio secretary to the Government of India, Sudesh Kumar, Member of Electrical Railway Board and Ex-officiosecretary to Government of India; R P Agarwal, Director (Technical) with IRWO and former commissioner of Railway Safety; K K Agarwal, former Member (Traffic) of The Railway Board and Ex-Officio Secretary to GoI; N K Goel, former Executive Director Railway Board.

Christopher Sidor · Post by **Christopher Sidor** » 30 Jul 2013 22:27

^^^
Thank god they are going the sensible way. Just like the most sensible and practical BRT which Ahmedabad has implemented. The only reason why there are people who push for standard guage is because "it is used somewhere else," especially in phoren land.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 31 Jul 2013 07:20

automatic door opening and closure is safety critical. i hope they put in some advanced sensors (radars/irst) to stop the train on animal or people movement at a distance [side effect is abuse of course].

habal · Post by **habal** » 02 Aug 2013 09:58

Theo_Fidel wrote:Prahar, you might end up doing this...

this is seen mostly in RoP areas of ganga-yamuna belt.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 07 Aug 2013 14:49

SaiK wrote:sure.. but if you are thinking on fossil fuel, then we should jump ahead for hydrogen/fuel cells.

IMO Nuclear is the only way. COpying the Japanese way is perhaps a better choice.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 19 Aug 2013 16:21

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 09696.aspx

Sad that so many lives (37 now) can be wiped off. All deaths are sad, these should have been avoided. Public education is necessary to reduce such deaths. Apart from building bridges, it seems Indian Railways, has to almost make it impossible for people to cross tracks. People will still climb fences and barriers, but at least there is some deterrent.

Additionally, maybe there could be tracks that do not pass through the station, but outside the station so that trains that do not stop at the station can take that - like outer ring roads without having to enter the prime area (station).

News reports do not carry who is to blame, but the public have set fire to a few trains. The train is reported to have been moving at 80Km/hr, even if it had slowed down (which some trains do), lives would have been still lost. At some point, the public have to step up and play their part in the larger system.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 19 Aug 2013 16:35

One driver is dead and another in critical condition , they bashed both of them for their mistake

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 19 Aug 2013 16:36

SwamyG wrote:Additionally, maybe there could be tracks that do not pass through the station, but outside the station so that trains that do not stop at the station can take that - like outer ring roads without having to enter the prime area (station).

Not practically possible sir. Because then we will have to build bye passes at pretty much every station. In very many cases what happens is that:-
1. There are only two main lines.
2. Next to it, there could be two loop lines (which may have platforms on one side).
3. So in cases where a train with higher priority is coming in a slower train may be moved to any of the loop lines. Then the main line is cleared and the train with higher priority just charges in at the permitted speed. If the high priority train also has to slow down, it defeats the purpose of having such trains. At every way side station, it would have to reduce speed.

News reports do not carry who is to blame, but the public have set fire to few trains. The train is reported to have been moving at 80Km/hr, even if it had slowed down (which some trains do), lives would have been still lost. At some point, the public have to step up and play their part in the larger system.

I may sound cruel. But one thing the railways should immediately do. Do NOT pay any compensation to the relatives of the victims. They died doing an illegal (and stupid) activity. Now the trend is to ask for monetary compensation as if it is their right. Only when the society in general knows that Railway would do zilch if the people land up under trains because of their own folly; will the society think about. This is common sense.

News papers can report any thing and sensationalize it. To get mowed down by a train, the people have to be on the tracks. And this is considered as trespassing. The high speed train have every right to come at the prescribed speed limits and adhering to the railway signals. The engine driver cannot reduce the speed of the trains, when he suddenly finds a large group of morons standing on the tracks. I hope the Indian Railways senior management supports its own Running Staff and the Station staff as well. If cases can be booked for rioting etc. all the better.

PS: Re-read the reports. The dead (and perhaps the rioters as well) all seem to be a sect of Shiva Devotees. Now hope the "secular" brigade does not use this to further its own agenda. From the action of the Shiva Devotees, I don't think they have anything up in their heads and they may have given the "secular" media a very long stick.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 19 Aug 2013 16:53

Sachin saar:
I realize it is not practical in several stations, there might be problems related to acquiring land. Usually the Railways own some adjoining lands. Reducing speed every time will eat into the running time. The less maneuvering, the less problems and easy to implement.

I saw an interview, where somebody was already demanding Rs10 lakh (probably for every victim). Looks like rescue efforts are hampered because the people are angry and authorities fear to access the station. Sad and bad.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 19 Aug 2013 17:13

SwamyG wrote:I saw an interview, where somebody was already demanding Rs10 lakh (probably for every victim). Looks like rescue efforts are hampered because the people are angry and authorities fear to access the station. Sad and bad.

The railways would waste crores of money if it has to alter tracks etc. because of the stupidity of the common man

. Mind you, even if this is done people would find some way to still land up in front of the tracks. Perhaps half of that money can be used to sensitize the people.

In a station in Northern Kerala there was a case that a train which was to be taken into one platform was diverted to another one (basically to the opposite side - it was an Island platform). Now people on the platform would not have faced any difficulty, they would have to just do an "about turn" and take a couple of steps forward. But some smart alecs were standing on the loop line hoping to board the train before the folks at the platforms get a chance. One of them went under the wheels when the loco suddenly moved onto the loop line. Now this is the "100% literate state" you see, and people had to show the benefits of it. They took this as some thing similar to a motor vehicle accident and insisted the driver to be "driving under the influence of alcohol". Guess the 100% literate crowd thought the engine driver moved the train like a car

. But the driver was taken to Kozhikode for a check up, and spare driver had to be brought in. Net result, train delayed for nearly 2 hours.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 19 Aug 2013 18:54

So what is a good solution, where trains are not made to slow down every time they pass through a station? Granted no solution will be fail-proof, we all have seen people jumping fences in Metro cities - where one expects people to be more aware of the dangers - because of the frequency of trains, speeds, accidents, huge population etc versus say in a remote village where these factors are low. I have seen bridges not being used in Madras.

Kannan · Post by **Kannan** » 19 Aug 2013 19:13

SwamyG wrote:So what is a good solution

Give the poor drivers a shotgun so they can't be assaulted by stupid people

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 19 Aug 2013 21:05

One suspects the twits got down on the wrong side so they did not have to use the platform and wait for the train to leave. It is very easy for the train drivers view to be obstructed as he makes the turn around the stationary train to use the loop line. So not only did they break the rules they also did not pay attention to their surroundings. There is no way to fix this. In advanced trains the door operation is controlled by the system and trackside doors will not open. But these things are not possible yet in India.

Fencing between the tracks might help but is impractical.

These things happen in a low cost service that cuts safety corners.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Aug 2013 04:12

there is no safety in building bridges in rural stations. nobody uses them...people just prefer to walk across. the bridge will form a home for the homeless and vagrant cows and dogs only.

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 20 Aug 2013 09:50

Sachin wrote:I may sound cruel. But one thing the railways should immediately do. Do NOT pay any compensation to the relatives of the victims.

+1. Not sure whether solar fencing would deter people from crossing the tracks randomly in/near a station. And any amount of education will not change our herd behavior, we will need strict policing with financial penalties. One has to drive down OMR in Chennai to see these highly educated fools crossing the IT "Highway" when cars zoom across in 60-70 kmph even when there is overhead walkway in 50m.