West Asia News and Discussions

member_27444 · Post by **member_27444** » 10 Sep 2013 09:30

Oh boy!
Holy Jesus where is this thread heading now?

Damascus ?

Looks like the steel to resolve this is being forged in biblical proportions
Even though the weapons may be ultra modern their names indicate middle ages like tomahawk (American Indian) so after all the second coming is coming for sure

I feel Kerry is far superior to Dr. Kissinger, Colin Powell Condi Rice H Clinton Madeleine fullbrightbet et al , in one speech Kerry threw a little ketchup and the Russians, Syrians lapped it up.
Brilliant he deserves peace prize the Sec of state to usher peace in Middle East

Truly peace dude

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 10 Sep 2013 09:42

Philip ji,

The neo-crusaders have learnt their lessons from the post WW-2 Hollywood. The surfeit of Nostradamus stuff we find on the net is actually their Hollywood. Now they also have a politically correct Captain America. It was telecast some years back on Disco very also. They had the forces of evil (black coloured waves) descend over babylon and and seen to be winning till God came to help and then the overwhelming forces of good (white coloured waves) descend on the black coloured guys and all heaven breaks loose. This kind of biblical programming is apparent in even the best schooled people off US.

Hollywood itself has been making end of days kind of stuff to prepare the umrikhani pub lic for more of these kinds of wars.

The point is if Umrikha itself claims Hollywood as its cultural zenith how can you presume that they will not use it to ishara a message. Umirkha is hollywood and hollywood is Umrikha.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 10 Sep 2013 10:35

I suspect Kerrys speech was a back channel deal that was agreed by US and Russia and then they must have been conveyed to Syria too ....else its too good to be true for Kerry to says do away with CW and Russia to ask Syria to agree for it and Syria agreeing at the instant.

More like back to back diplomatic success ....saves POTUS word for war and call him peacemaker ..... saves Syria from a near certain strike and consequences there of for Syria and the region and gives Russia a firm footing in future negotiations.

I saw in CNN today some one like Amanpour was not too happy and she keeps repeating that Assad needs to be punished. As if the right to Punish is a God Given Gift to America.

I suspect the Israel and Saudi lobby will be unhappy if US does not strike Syria something so dearly awaited by both

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Sep 2013 12:18

yes I suspect its one of those things like jaswantji was talking to condoleeza rice and Pres Bush just wandered in with his coffee and had a meeting sans the protocol layers

Rus definitely comes out looking good to both sides here...dealmaker/peacemaker/saver of H&D.

israel and KSA must be furious...but obama is not known to be a israel fan to the extent other POTUSes have been,

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 10 Sep 2013 13:08

Giving up chemical weapons without atleast a nuclear umbrella will be the biggest mistake Assad could make.
Unless CW in UN custody is the current euphemism for eventually CW in Russian custody that too contingent on embargo on weapons supply to the Al Qaeda rebels by external agents.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 10 Sep 2013 13:28

Most countries in UN would react in a negative way if Syria were to use CW if they are cornered , since Chemical Weapons Convention is in place though Syria did not sign in but most in the world did including the P 5 and India and gave up their CBW stockpile i.e destroyed it.

So practically Syria keeping CW is at best useless and at worst a liability ..... keeping under UN would do no harm.

Atleast that would prevent rebel from using CW and blaming it on regime. Even if they didnt it would be obvious who used it.

What Syrian Forces need are more quality weapons to fight the ground/gorilla war , Anti Material weapons , cheap ATGM in numbers , Thermobaric Weapons and good intel to hold their ground .....hopefully the Russians and Iran could provide them that.

Real solution though would come only with negotiated settled of the dispute taking all stake holders into account under UN supervision.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 10 Sep 2013 13:49

Syria strike test vote put on hold as Obama backs off 'red line' - FoxNews

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid unexpectedly postponed a test vote on authorizing President Obama to order military strikes against Syria set for Wednesday hours after the president took a sharp turn away from his "red line" threat to Syria on the eve of taking his case to the American people, saying in an interview with Fox News that he's open to negotiations on an alternative plan that could avert a military strike.

Reid cited "international discussions" in postponing the vote to advance debate on the resolution authorizing the use of force against the forces of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. In the Senate Wednesday, Reid said he had discussed delaying the vote with the President.

Reid says it was not important to, "see how fast we can do this," but rather "how well we can do this."

<snip>

But in the interview aired Monday evening, the president responded to a proposal, formally put forward by the Russians, to have the Assad regime turn over its chemical weapons to international control.

"We will pursue this diplomatic track," Obama told Fox News. "I fervently hope that this can be resolved in a non-military way."

<snip>

The president's comments come after a proposal to have the Syrian government relinquish control of its stockpile quickly caught fire in the international community and in Washington.

Secretary of State John Kerry touched off the discussion with an off-hand remark that Syria could only avert military action if it turned over its weapons within a week.

Kerry and his aides afterward claimed the secretary was merely making a "rhetorical" point. But Russia's foreign minister formally proposed the idea to Syria, and the Assad government said it welcomed the plan.

As the United Nations secretary-general and several U.S. allies gravitated toward the proposal, the Obama administration conceded that it would seriously consider it.

Obama went further in his interview with Fox News.

"I welcome the possibility of the development," he said. "We should explore and exhaust all avenues of diplomatic resolution to this."

He said the U.S. should be able to get a "fairly rapid sense" of how serious the proposal is. "We are going to be immediately talking to the Russians and looking for some actual language they might be proposing," he said.

Is this backed by any other network?

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 10 Sep 2013 13:55

CW is a liability for Assad now and it being placed under international agencies and finally being destroyed, will certainly buy Assad some time but certainly won't save him from the inevitable. There will be some delays while negotiations go on, CW identified and siezed and destroyed. Assad can try and hide some. US can accuse him of hiding some. Assad can hand-over some to Hezb. So, there will be accusations-denials- counter-accusations etc.
Once US is satifised that majority of the CW is accounted, they can even do a ground-troop assault. This is coming! It would be interesting to see what Assad can conjure up to prevent that. A russian nuclear umbrella would be nice. US and others are not going to watch on the side-lines doing nothing about it. So, unless Russia is willing to risk a serious show-down on that, I think it is highly unlikely that would happen.
More importantly, one thing Assad can do during this delay period, is the ensure that the rebels are completely annhilated, possibly with russian intelligence and Iranian assistance. Rebels and their sponsors in their desperation will have to up their ante further than the "CW red line" to speed up US intervention.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 10 Sep 2013 14:01

Russia proves photos and videos of Syrian chemical attack were faked

Convincing evidence was demonstrated to the UN Human Right Council at its 24th session in Geneva, proving that photos and videos of victims of the Damascus chemical attack on August 21 were fake, the Russian Foreign Ministry said.

"A press briefing was held at the 24th session of the UN Security Council's Human Rights Council in Geneva on September 9 which dealt with human rights and armed conflicts, the US threat to use force against Syria and international law. International experts, Syrian public and religious leaders, and Rossiya 24 correspondent Anastasia Popova who has worked in Syria for a long time, presented their reports," it said in a statement posted on its website on Tuesday.

"Convincing evidence was demonstrated proving that videos and photos showing victims of the chemical attack near Damascus on August 21 were fake. Evidence was provided by numerous witnesses, who said unanimously that chemical weapons were used in Western Ghouta by the militants. Reports on the inquiries carried out by activists, and eyewitnesses' accounts were handed over to the Independent Commission of Inquiry on the Syrian Arab Republic," the Russian Foreign Ministry said.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 10 Sep 2013 14:09

vinod wrote:CW is a liability for Assad now and it being placed under international agencies and finally being destroyed, will certainly buy Assad some time but certainly won't save him from the inevitable. There will be some delays while negotiations go on, CW identified and siezed and destroyed. Assad can try and hide some. US can accuse him of hiding some. Assad can hand-over some to Hezb. So, there will be accusations-denials- counter-accusations etc.
Once US is satifised that majority of the CW is accounted, they can even do a ground-troop assault. This is coming! It would be interesting to see what Assad can conjure up to prevent that.

Indeed this game of hunting for a WMD which did not exist and then blaming for not handing over what did not exist and the consequent invasion was tested in Iraq.

One solution would be for Russia to put boots on the ground in a significant manner in the interim changing the game.

habal · Post by **habal** » 10 Sep 2013 14:39

what happens if bandar does not give up ?

http://rt.com/news/syria-rebels-chemica ... srael-618/

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Sep 2013 15:30

to defeat the rebellion Syria needs to seal off and pound the turkish and jordanian frontiers perhaps using mercenary Mi24 aviation units...

else the saudis and qataris will keep pushing in their terrorists into the fight.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Sep 2013 15:41

it seems israel did that missile test from middle of med, in eastern direction
russia has lodged a strong reprimand over it
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 76,00.html

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 10 Sep 2013 15:53

Sanku wrote:Indeed this game of hunting for a WMD which did not exist and then blaming for not handing over what did not exist and the consequent invasion was tested in Iraq.

One solution would be for Russia to put boots on the ground in a significant manner in the interim changing the game.

Putting UN boot is better option , Russian soldiers will becomes a target of Jihadis and Western media would label any work they do as biased and pro-regiem.

So best bet is to put a Force let by UN

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 10 Sep 2013 15:55

Singha wrote:it seems israel did that missile test from middle of med, in eastern direction
russia has lodged a strong reprimand over it
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 76,00.html

Not sure if it makes sense to reprimand Israel since it was not a BM test but a missile carried by F-15 that simulated BM speed and characteristics ...... its their sovereign right to test it.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 10 Sep 2013 15:57

As i thought the plan was not that came out of the blue from Kerrys mind but was in the making

Putin, Obama discussed proposal for putting Syria chemical weapons under int'l control - Peskov ( via VOR )

The discussion took place on the sidelines of the G20 Summit in St. Petersburg.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 10 Sep 2013 15:58

Russia preparing "workable" Syria chemical weapons plan - Lavrov
http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2013_09_1 ... vrov-8551/

Russia is preparing a "workable and clear" plan to carry out its proposal to put Syria's chemical weapons under international control, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said.

"We expect to present this plan in the near future and we are ready to rework and refine it together with the UN secretary general, the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons and with members of the UN Security Council," Lavrov told reporters in Moscow.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 10 Sep 2013 16:28

Austin wrote: So best bet is to put a Force let by UN

That might be a good idea, however I don't want any Indians in it. Hopefully it will be staffed by NATO countries, who will find their current allies behaviours and methods to kufr first hand and react appropriately.

I dont want to lose any Indian lives in this peacekeeping mission. UN seems to have no other troops other than Indians in areas where things really get tough.

habal · Post by **habal** » 10 Sep 2013 17:15

Austin wrote:As i thought the plan was not that came out of the blue from Kerrys mind but was in the making

Putin, Obama discussed proposal for putting Syria chemical weapons under int'l control - Peskov ( via VOR )

The discussion took place on the sidelines of the G20 Summit in St. Petersburg.

This is a clear sign of duality in his approach. He takes excessively strident posture in public but very keen to dialogue and some compromise in private.

His public postures seem to be adopted under tremendous pressure. As if he is afraid of something or someone.

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 10 Sep 2013 17:23

BBC Story now:Syria conflict: France to float tough UN resolution

France will put a resolution to the UN Security Council to place Syria's chemical weapons under international control so they can be destroyed, Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius says. {France wants in first, rather than Russia}
He said it would threaten "extremely serious" consequences if Syria breached its conditions {sounds like drawing another red line which must be crossed and then military action} .
----

The resolution would be tabled under Chapter 7 of the UN charter covering possible military and non-military action to restore peace, Mr Fabius added

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 10 Sep 2013 17:23

habal wrote:
Austin wrote:As i thought the plan was not that came out of the blue from Kerrys mind but was in the making

Putin, Obama discussed proposal for putting Syria chemical weapons under int'l control - Peskov ( via VOR )

The discussion took place on the sidelines of the G20 Summit in St. Petersburg.
This is a clear sign of duality in his approach. He takes excessively strident posture in public but very keen to dialogue and some compromise in private.

His public postures seem to be adopted under tremendous pressure. As if he is afraid of something or someone.

Obama or Putin ?

habal · Post by **habal** » 10 Sep 2013 17:26

Obama.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 10 Sep 2013 18:36

i sense a split inside the beltway - obama and his buds in one camp and kerry and buds in another and lots of 'healthy debate' in between

Garooda · Post by **Garooda** » 10 Sep 2013 18:51

Syria_CW_UN_Open_End

UN Secretary-General Ban Ki- moon said Monday that the international community should respond in case the UN inquiry revealed chemical weapons were used in Syria. The issue is still not resolved. This could be the open end deal between POTUS and UN should they feel necessary to push forward with attack.

Ban said he was preparing proposals for the UN Security Council (UNSC) to act upon in that case because "this would be an abominable crime", Xinhua reported.

"Syria dominated the summit meeting in a way no other political development has ever done at the G20 summit" in St. Petersburg, Russia, last week, he told reporters here at UN headquarters. "It also dominated the bilateral meetings I had with world leaders."

"The main focus was on the chemical weapons used and the forthcoming report from my investigation team," the secretary- general said. The UN chief, however added that he was yet to receive the probe's report on whether chemical weapons were used in Syria or not.

"But I do know there has been significant speculation regarding use of a chemical agent on Aug 21, leading to the death of hundreds of civilian people," Ban said, referring to an alleged chemical weapons attack in Ghouta area near Syrian capital.

"If it should be confirmed .. then this would be an abominable crime and the international community would certainly have to do something about it."

Should the report from the UN fact-finding team led by Swedish expert Ake Sellstrom confirm the use of chemical weapons, Ban said, "then this would surely be something around which the Security Council could unite in response and indeed something that should merit universal condemnation." More of the same rhetoric to justify the strike and a reminder to Assad

The over two-year old but still ongoing Syrian war has claimed more than 100,000 lives and displaced more than six million people.]

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 10 Sep 2013 18:52

Anant wrote:Habal

The only thing special is the stuff you smoke before posting. Keep up the good work. You're my source of unending amusement. Your so called brave Russians are now running like a dog with its tail between his legs trying to save that looser Ass-ad from eating some Tomahawks. Nuclear weapon. Funny stuff. I always thought Russian exports were vodka and prostitutes.

Please stay away from personal insults. Mods please take note.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 10 Sep 2013 18:58

Anant wrote:The only perspective I bring is to watch this thread implode when bff of many here Ass-ad gets his head popped off on the gallows ala Saddam or knife up the butt like qadaffy duck. Will be like three mile Island here. In the meantime the iaf buys more c17's, c130's and American engines. Apparently, they don't share the America sucks analysis.

No one that I can see here is arguing that Assad will win a confrontation with USA. They are in line with majority American opinion that American attack on Syria would be ill-considered. So what are you talking about?

Mods, does it make sense for BRF to host a member who freely confesses that he has no perspective to contribute, and is only here to sneer contemptuously?

Garooda · Post by **Garooda** » 10 Sep 2013 19:20

Sucking up to POTUS?..Maybe

Radical Egyptian cleric Yusuf al-Qaradawi, the spiritual leader of the Muslim Brotherhood movement, has expressed support for an American military strike in Syria.

The reason for Qaradawi’s support for the strike is that “the Muslims cannot do it.” The remarks were made during a Friday sermon delivered by Qaradawi and which aired on Qatar TV on September 6, 2013. The sermon was translated by the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI).

“If only we could be the ones to retaliate against those people [the Syrian regime]. I wish there were an Islamic power capable of punishing these people. If only there was an Islamic power capable of drawing the line for the oppressors, and imposing upon them the punishment they deserve,” Qaradawi said during the sermon.

“We do not have such power, however, so if they are punished by others, it is better than nothing. Allah pits the oppressors one against the other. The ancients used to say: ‘Oh Allah, keep the oppressors busy with one another, and let us emerge from among them intact.’ We do not pity those people when they are attacked by whoever strikes them, because they deserve to be attacked, just like they attacked the Muslims,” he added.

Qaradawi, a Sunni, endorses Palestinian Authority Arab suicide bombers and supports Hamas in its fight against Israel.

He recently slammed the Hezbollah terrorist group as the “party of Satan” that seeks to “sow discord” among Muslims, because of its support for Syrian President Bashar Al-Assad.

Qaradawi is banned from entering the United States, but one of his deputies, Sheikh Abdullah bin Bayyah, visited the White House in June.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 10 Sep 2013 19:40

If Obama manages to remove all the chemical weapons in Syria or even the bulk, this would be a credible achievement. No other president was able to do it. I wonder if it was always his plan. You don’t produce such a detailed de-weaponisation report with details out of the blue.

There is quite a bit of internal support for this. The USA may even fund this program through the UN.

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 10 Sep 2013 19:54

Syria accepts Russian proposal on weapons; France to bring resolution to Security Council
by Michael Birnbaum, washingtonpost.com
September 10th 2013

BERLIN — An unexpected Russian proposal for Syria to avert a U.S. military strike by transferring control of its chemical weapons appeared to be gaining traction on Tuesday, as Syria embraced it, France said it would draft a U.N. Security Council resolution to put the plan into effect, and China and Iran voiced support.

French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius said bringing the proposal to the security council would enable the world to judge the intentions of Russia and China, which until now have blocked efforts to sanction Syria for any actions during its two-and-a-half-year-long civil war.

But major questions remained over whether Syria’s longtime patrons and critics could agree on the specifics of a resolution, and how Syria’s banned chemical stockpiles could be transferred to international monitors in the midst of a bloody and protracted civil war that has claimed more than 100,000 lives.

Russia floated the idea of handing over the weapons on Monday, after a seemingly off-hand remark by U.S. Secretary of State John F. Kerry that such a move would be the only way for Syrian President Bashar al-Assad to avoid a U.S. military strike. President Obama has been urging world leaders and U.S. lawmakers to endorse military action as a way of sending a message of condemnation and deterrence to Assad, whose government allegedly authorized nerve gas attacks outside Damascus on Aug. 21 that killed more than 1,400 civilians.

But on Monday, after Russia and Syria embraced Kerry’s weapons-transfer scenario, the U.S. president conceded that the idea of monitoring and ultimately destroying Syria’s arsenal “could potentially be a significant breakthrough.” The Senate postponed a vote scheduled for Wednesday on whether to back a proposed strike.

“I think you have to take it with a grain of salt, initially,” Obama said in an interview with NBC that was among several he gave Monday in pursuit of public support for a military strike. “We’re going to make sure that we see how serious these proposals are.”

Obama is scheduled to address the nation Tuesday evening at 9 p.m. His speech was originally planned as the capstone of a newly focused effort to rally a skeptical public and reluctant lawmakers in favor of a military strike. That approach could change, however, given the new proposal.

Syrian Foreign Minister Walid al-Moalem told State Duma Speaker Sergei Naryshkin in Moscow on Tuesday that his country would accept Russia’s proposal for establishing international control over its chemical weapons, Interfax reported. Moalem said the Syrian government decided Monday evening to accept the plan “to stave off American aggression.”

But it was not clear whether the resolution language proposed on Tuesday by Fabius would be acceptable to Russian officials, who have voiced doubts about whether the Syrian government was responsible for the Aug. 21 attacks and who can veto any security council resolution.

The resolution will “condemn the massacre of August 21 committed by the Syrian regime,” Fabius told reporters in Paris, and “require that this regime sheds light without delay on its chemical weapons program, that they be placed under international control and that they be dismantled.”

The resolution would warn of “extremely serious consequences” if Syria violated those guidelines, Fabius said. It would also seek to bring to justice those responsible for the Aug. 21 attacks.

Fabius said he hoped the resolution would not be blocked by other permanent members of the council — a reference to previous efforts on Syria that were blocked by Russia and China. He said that “all options are still on the table,” and acknowledged that there were many practical difficulties in actually carrying out any plans to destroy Syrian chemical weapons. “It’s something that’s difficult to do, that takes take time, and is very complicated in the middle of conflict, the kind of conflict that exists currently in Syria,” Fabius said.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said his country will soon announce “a feasible, clear and concrete plan,” which it will discuss with “the U.N. secretary general, the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons and the U.N. Security Council.”

Alexander Kalugin, the Russian ambassador to Jordan, said the plan would need “international inspectors,” likely from the United Nations, and agreement from both the Syrian government and the rebel forces it is fighting to secure their safety.

“We are now engaged with Syrians about working out some concrete details on how to do the job,” Kalugin said by telephone from Amman. “It’s certainly not an easy mission.”

The Syrian government is known to have stockpiles of chemical agents including mustard gas, sarin and other nerve agents, but has never explicitly admitted possessing them and their exact locations and stockpiles remain unknown.

“Certainly we need more information from the Syrians about quantities, whereabouts, but I don’t think it’s an impossible mission,” said Kalugin.

The Syrian Opposition Coalition described the initiative as a strategy to stall for time and said that Syria’s alleged use of chemical weapons, a violation of international law, requires a “serious and proportionate response.”

“Crimes against humanity cannot be absolved through political concessions, or surrendering the weapons used to commit them,” the opposition coalition said in a statement.

The chairman of the international affairs committee of Russia’s lower house of parliament , Alexei Pushkov, said that Russia’s role in pushing the proposal is a key to its acceptance by Syria.

If the U.S. had demanded that Syria put its chemical weapons arsenal under international control, Pushkov told reporters, it would have looked like “blackmail at gunpoint,” and Assad would very likely have rejected it.

In Beijing, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei told reporters that officials “welcome and support the Russian proposal” and believe that “the international community ought to give it positive consideration.”

“China always believes that a political settlement is the only realistic way to solve the Syrian issue,” Hong said. “We should insist on this direction without wavering.”

In Tehran, newly appointed foreign ministry spokeswoman Marzieh Afkham said Iran “welcomes Moscow’s initiative at this stage to resolve the Syrian crisis. The Islamic Republic of Iran sees this initiative as a way to halt militarization in the region.”

The possibility of placing Syrian chemical weapons under international control was discussed by Obama and Russian President Vladimir Putin when they met Friday at the G-20 summit in St. Petersburg, Putin’s spokesman, Dmitri Peskov, told the Interfax news agency. On Monday, appearing before reporters, Kerry referred to it almost sarcastically when he was asked whether there was anything Assad could do to avoid a U.S. attack.

“Sure, he could turn over every bit of his weapons to the international community within the next week, without delay,” Kerry responded with a shrug. “But he isn’t about to.”

As Kerry flew back to Washington to help lobby lawmakers, he received a midair call from Lavrov, who said he had heard the secretary’s remarks and was about to make a public announcement. The statement in Moscow came before Kerry landed.

The idea of international control also quickly gained traction among diplomats and at least some senior Democrats whose backing Obama seeks for a show of force. U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki-moon, who has said a U.S. attack on Syria would be illegal without U.N. approval, signaled support, as did British Prime Minister David Cameron. German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who has been wary of a strike, welcomed the idea.

Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Dianne Feinstein (D-
Calif.) was the first senior lawmaker to voice support for the Russian proposal.

“I think if the U.N. would accept the responsibility of maintaining these facilities, seeing that they’re secure, and that Syria would announce that it is giving up any chemical weapons programs or delivery system vehicles that may have been armed, then I think we’ve got something,” Feinstein said.

Republican Sens. John McCain (Ariz.) and Lindsey O. Graham (S.C.) said that the proposal came only because Assad feels the threat of military force and that Congress should continue considering Obama’s request for legislative backing. But the two said the proposal should be given a chance — and a test of its sincerity — by being committed to writing in a U.N. Security Council resolution.

“I am skeptical. Very, very skeptical,” McCain said in an interview with CNN Tuesday morning. “But the fact is, you can’t pass up an opportunity like this without trying to determine if it’s real. I think we can find out very quickly whether it’s valid or not.”

Morris reported from Beirut. Englund reported from Moscow. Karen DeYoung in London, Anne Gearan and Debbi Wilgoren in Washington and Simon Denyer and Zhang Jie in Beijing contributed to this report.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Sep 2013 20:14

Austin wrote:
Singha wrote:it seems israel did that missile test from middle of med, in eastern direction
russia has lodged a strong reprimand over it
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 76,00.html
Not sure if it makes sense to reprimand Israel since it was not a BM test but a missile carried by F-15 that simulated BM speed and characteristics ...... its their sovereign right to test it.

Not during a high tension crisis.
it could be mistaken for precipitating the issue.
Most likely it was an inducement for Syria to panic and provide fig leaf of 'self defence'.

If this crisis gets resolved it firmly puts the Shia faction of political Islam on Russia side while Sunni faction is formly under Anglo-Saxon tutelage.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 10 Sep 2013 20:49

It would have been fun to see if a 4,000 lb bunker buster dropped on Assad's personal fiefdom 200 ft below ground could shake things up a bit. Oh well, maybe next time.

Addendum: you know we're going to continue to train the opposition to probably include anti-chemical warfare infantry manuevers, atropine injectors, gas masks, etc. don't you? With any luck we will get that training to the civilians also.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Sep 2013 20:53

France and UK still want to ensure US gets bogged down in Syria.

TSJ, Who is "you' in your above post right after my post?

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 10 Sep 2013 21:01

ramana wrote:France and UK still want to ensure US gets bogged down in Syria.

TSJ, Who is "you' in your above post right after my post?

It was meant for everybody. Usually, when I reply to a specific post I either quote it or put ^^^^^^^ in the message. Thanks, TSJ

Garooda · Post by **Garooda** » 10 Sep 2013 21:09

Crafty_Craftsmen

President Obama will back a United Nations effort to secure Syria's chemical weapons stockpiles, the White House said Tuesday.

Separately, a group of senators said they were working on a new use-of-force resolution that would only authorize military action if Syria refuses to relinquish its stockpile of chemical weapons to international control. Kiseena kisee tarah implant karenge if assad refuses to step down or fails to disclose all the weapons?This development took place a day after Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) canceled a procedural vote scheduled for Wednesday on authorizing a limited military strike on Syria.

The outline under discussion by eight lawmakers would require the United Nations to pass a resolution stating that Syrian President Bashar Assad gassed his own people. It would also call on the U.N. to remove all of Syria’s chemical weapons by a certain date.

The resolution would authorize U.S. military action if those goals are not met, according to a source familiar with the negotiations.

The group of senators, however, does not yet have legislative text and has yet to determine what if any limits would be placed on military action.

A source familiar with the talks said the senators working on the new language include Sens. John McCain (R-Ariz.), Kelly Ayotte (R-N.H.), Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.), Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.), Carl Levin (D-Mich.), Chris Coons (D-Del.) and Bob Casey (D-Pa.).

The developments likely end an effort to win House and Senate votes on a more immediate strike on Syria, though the administration continued Tuesday to call for lawmakers to support that effort.

However, no votes in both the House and Senate to an immediate strike have been piling up, casting doubt on the administration's ability to win a vote.

President Obama is scheduled to address the nation Tuesday evening on Syria. He is set to meet Senate Republicans and Democrats in separate Tuesday afternoon meetings.

According to the White House, Obama spoke separately to French President Francois Hollande and British Prime Minister David Cameron Tuesday morning on a Russian-brokered plan that would have Syria relinquish its chemical weapons to interntional control.

"They agreed to work closely together, and in consultation with Russia and China, to explore seriously the viability of the Russian proposal to put all Syrian chemical weapons and related materials fully under international control in order to ensure their verifiable and enforceable destruction," the White House official said.

"These efforts will begin today at the United Nations, and will include a discussion on elements of a potential U.N. Security Council resolution."

Sergey Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, has said officials are working on a plan to transfer Syrian chemical weapons to international control. French officials are pushing a resolution to grant United Nations approval of the weapons transfer.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) on Tuesday endorsed the potential deal and said he would delay a Senate vote authorizing military intervention in Syria to give international negotiators more time.

“If there is a realistic chance, and I certainly hope there is, to secure Syria’s chemical weapons that brought further atrocities of the Assad regime, we shouldn’t turn our backs on that chance,” he said.

Reid emphasized, however, that international negotiators would have a limited window to reach agreement. This would be interesting.

“For such a solution to be plausible, the Assad regime must act quickly to prove their offer is real, not merely a ploy to delay military action or action of the United States Senate.”

“As I said last night, it’s appropriate to allow other conversations to go on,” Reid said. “France, Russia and we understand Syria is involved in this.

“This is aimed at avoiding military action. We’ll have to see if this works out,” he said.

Separately from the bipartisan group, Sen. Jeanne Shaheen (D-N.H.) has already drafted legislative text for a measure that would require Syria to give up its weapons.

Under Shaheen’s proposal, President Obama would only have authorization to launch strikes if “Syria is not taking credible and concrete steps toward the removal and destruction of [its] chemical weapons stockpile," according to text provided by a Senate aide.

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 10 Sep 2013 21:11

ramana wrote:France and UK still want to ensure US gets bogged down in Syria.

Not just France and UK, Israel, Turkey, Saudi & Qatar as well. Saudi & Qatar have a lot to lose since they already funded 2 years of war. The refugee crisis is another drain on the neighbours. So, war will definitely happen. France has taken on the job of drafting the resolution - i.e. either draft non-agreeable version or a version where a new red line is drawn and that invites automatic UN approval for military action if violated.

Most likely it will be the second one, in which case an intrusive check request and delay to inspectors and them walking out would suffice a red line violation. And then the war happens with UN permission! Bingo!

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 10 Sep 2013 21:13

habal wrote:This is a clear sign of duality in his approach. He takes excessively strident posture in public but very keen to dialogue and some compromise in private.

His public postures seem to be adopted under tremendous pressure. As if he is afraid of something or someone.

Thats how diplomacy works ........after all Diplomacy is the Art of Possible.

There should always be backroom channels for negotiations , compromise etc even if there is crises or strong posturing presented in public.

I am told that US diplomat negotiated with North Vietnamese even at a time when their soldiers were heavily involved in war with them.

Lets hope what ever proposal is presented its acceptable to West and all parties involved in UN.

Chemical Weapons though is a very generic term and you can pretty much make some kind of crude chemical weapons from easily available chemicals , though it may not be industrial grade/mil grade types.

I remember watching CNN post 9/11 when they showed a video where Taliban was experimenting with some crude inhouse chemical weapons tested on dog ( was a puppy ) .....and CNN and other American News channel went to the town claiming how ruthless the Talibans were and how they possessed these terrible terrible chemical weapons.

Talk about duplicity

member_27444 · Post by **member_27444** » 10 Sep 2013 21:13

Every buddy here knows that its foolish to spend $$ to train Syrians civilians to fight
Not much seems to have been learned about the training of Osama, and his gang.

Ok Saudi is going to finance just like they did to defeat the great satan Russia

................
Time to party on

Come on baby, do the locomotion...
I know you'll get to like it if you give it a chance now,
Come on baby, do the locomotion...

Now that you can do it, lets make a chain now,
Come on baby, do the locomotion...
A chugga, chugga, motion like a railway train now,
Come on baby, do the locomotion...

......
The Vietnam peace talks continued in Paris while Us was bombing and Vietcong tightening the noose
It was a negotiation that went no where but back to barracks with out any result.

The same situation is coming back in Afghan Pakistan engagement this time a lot of equipment left behind.

........
The crafty craftsmen want UN to force Assad to acquiesce to the use of CW in Damascus.

Which will be welcomed by Russians and Syrians why?

A lot of debate will take place and much time will be bought to expunge that word.
Why so? if it is accepted then Assad is asking or imploring an attack as a confession of use will attract punishment else US marshals will be sent to rope him.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 10 Sep 2013 21:19

ramana wrote:Not during a high tension crisis.
it could be mistaken for precipitating the issue.
Most likely it was an inducement for Syria to panic and provide fig leaf of 'self defence'.

Most certainly it was a secret test , since initially US pretended that it would check up if such thing even happened when they were were part of this test ..... its only the new type of Russian EW radar detected the ballistic trajectory and two ballistic object falling off.

If this crisis gets resolved it firmly puts the Shia faction of political Islam on Russia side while Sunni faction is formly under Anglo-Saxon tutelage.

Thats a given for now ...... add China to the list too on supporting Shia.

But its wont be exactly black and white but shades of grey too as they would have some sort of working relation with Sunni states too.

sooraj · Post by **sooraj** » 10 Sep 2013 21:24

How Vladimir Putin Became The Chuck Norris Of International Politics

http://www.businessinsider.in/How-Vladi ... 440724.cms

sooraj · Post by **sooraj** » 10 Sep 2013 21:28

Syria: Barack Obama hands the world to Vladimir Putin

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/janet ... -to-putin/