Theo_Fidel wrote:Certainly you could lay a lot of the blame on the muslim rulers. But for what ever reason our industrialization was not moving forward fast enough at that start period. We should not assume that ours was more highly productive society in that particular period. We were probably somewhere in the middle of pack and the entire pack was clustered together. No doubt India gold/plunder helped fund the burst of industrialization in the west.
I just wish that gold had triggered industrialization here instead.
Atri,
During this period 16 century or so, the renaissance was in full flow in the west. Huge and influential universities from oxford, Cambridge, berlin university, Bolgna, Paris, Heidelberg, Padua, etc were attempting to build scientific knowledge. Newtons Principia was being compiled and prepared for publishing, the nature of light was being explored, Kepler was plotting the stars and planets, etc.
We were not keeping up.
This was also the time the first modern roads and bridges were being laid across Europe, the first sewer system built. From being just behind/even with us they went ahead, we have been trying to catch up ever since.
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Again the Meluha folks were long gone by the time the british had got here. We have not preserved their technology and did not remember any of it.
Theo ji,
This is exactly what I said. There was no total war going on in parts where Oxford, Cambridge, Berlin Universities etc were coming up. You need to see things in perspective.
Furthermore, What do you mean university? To certain degree, what matters is the degree of research which goes on. All the discoveries in Mathematics by Kerala mathematicians of 13th and 14th century was from universities located in chain of gurukulas. If you are looking for big huge buildings only, then places of learning in India from 9th and 10th century are referred to as "schools" by western historiographers. I recommend you to visit Mandu. The huge University of Mandu by Raja Bhoj (was later converted to Madrasa and palace and ram temple converted to mosque after desecration) is much larger than the Oxford University building when Newton was reinventing calculus. Such huge places of learning are deemed "sanskrit schools" by our eminent historians and archaeologists. If a structure half the size of Mandu's university were present in 10th century England, it would have been glorified as beginnings of Oxford University onlee. So please have your viveka-buddhi on.
BTW, calculus too (the beginnings) was discovered in India which most probably traveled to EU by Jesuit missionaries. but that is another story. the places where these things were discovered were ashramas and gurukulas perhaps made up of bamboo OR temples (which still exist). Hindu Temples acted as libraries, schools and universities, structured investment vehicles, artisan schools along with obvious religious purpose and town-hall. So please look things in perspective. couple of centuries before Newton, Calculus was being invented, speed of light was being calculated (Read Saayana's commentary on Rigveda. He states speed of light as 300,000 km/s i.e 2200 Yojanas in half-nimisha) along with Bhaskara's theories on planetary motion and other laws of mathematics and physics. Not talking about ancient India when Takshshila, Nalanda and others were running in full glory. Talking 14th century onlee.
As far as industrial revolution is concerned, that is more driven by market. this is the difference between science and technology. Why indulge in centralized mass-production when decentralized local production+marketing+consumption is possible everywhere of almost all commodities (luxury and essential)? After all, this is what the futuristic business models are looking into these days. Indians achieved this much earlier. The whole Graama-Vyavastha based economy makes centralized mass-production of goods redundant. Due to high investments, the owners cannot afford that demand goes down so all kind of politicking is required to keep the demand high. This is when Vaishya starts interfering in state-matters thus giving rise to aasurik militari-industrial complex.
I am still not at all in favor of big huge factories screwing up the environment. If we want dharmik (today's fashionable partial synonym for dharma is sustainability) economy, the highway is return to India's village-centric economy; make a list of all those commodities and services which are essential and/or luxury and which can be scaled down and manufactured locally to meet local demand; and produce and sell them that way using as many locally available raw-materials as possible. High standard of living is achievable using this model.
Big-huge industries indulging in mass-production of commodities which can be locally made and consumed is hardly a sign of progress. I understand for building air-craft carriers or oil-tankers, you need bigger installations - such installations were present in India (in Hindu India, not Islamic India). The elaborate industry of shipbuilding which hd vanished from Hindu-control after fall of Zamorin kings of Kerala was reconstituted and reinitiated by Shivaji in 17th century (1653 to be precise). The printing press was also established Shivaji (many historians claim this, although I am personally yet to see an original reference) along with ordinance factories. Shivaji identified 18 industries which are essential for war-effort (including animal husbandry) and started cultivating them all throughout Maratha territory. One of their achievements was refinement of Deccani breed of horse which fueled their expansion in region where superior arabian and central asian horses could not last longer.
You cannot have james watts perfecting steam engine in region where Aurangzeb is pillaging and converting and looting with million men for 45-50 years. Whatever things I have mentioned earlier happened "in spite" of Aurangzeb doing what he did best. And this is just one region of India which is not known for being soft and creative or artistic or poetic (at least not since 1300s). So the whole business model around industrialization is over-hyped. That is NOT the only way forward and people even in west are realizing it now. It appears appealing because you are not seeing things in perspective and narrowing your span of inquiry. Broaden it and you will see an alternative model which lasted much longer and was much more sustainable.
India was screwed and was standing up again on her feet when she was screwed again by the brits. There no one single beautiful Building (heck even a proper building) left standing in Berlin on 7th May 1945 (and also on 9th May 1945) because Berlin was bombed like crazy by allied forces for couple of years. India was pillaged by Muslims for at least 400-500 years in the "pre-british" time you talk about.