India-US Strategic News and Discussion

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Theo_Fidel

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Theo_Fidel »

nachiket wrote:Not when your boss takes care of rent, utilities, food expenses, medical expenses and travel to India. People earning minimum wage usually have to deal with all that on their own and consequently, have a much harder life. The $500 she was paid, was basically $500 of disposable income.
Well then pay her minimum wage and live out in the city. If she refuses to work then you can't afford a nanny.

Be sure to ask your boss to dock your pay for coffee and donuts and any business lunches you take while you are at it. If not please sent me the money and keep only disposable income. Swiss bank account # supplied if necessary. Cash preferred. :D

This sort of silliness used to happen a lot in agricultural USA in places that were called company towns. And still happens in meat packing areas and agricultural areas. Feds regularly sweep in and bust the worst offenders. A few companies went bankrupt recently IIRC.
Sagar G
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Sagar G »

US mistook Devyani Khobragade's $4500 pay for maid's?
The disclosure that the amount of $4500, which diplomat Devyani Khobragade was supposed to pay her maid Sangeeta Richard, may have "mistakenly'' been cited by US authorities as the salary promised to the maid has added a new twist to the episode, allowing India to further toughen its stand on the issue.

It may also just have attorney Preet Bharara end up with egg on his face for claiming in a press release that $4500 was offered to Sangeeta in the visa form. As first reported by TOI on Tuesday, US authorities had wrongly concluded that this was the salary offered to Sangeeta.

As Khobragade's lawyer too has now asserted, $4500 may be nothing more than a figure mentioned on Sangeeta's visa application form (DS-160) in the box asking for salary of the employer (Khobragade). According to Indian authorities, there is no justification for the US authorities to state that Khobragade had agreed to pay that amount to her maid.

Khobragade is said to have helped Sangeeta fill up DS-160 around October 15, 2012. On November 11 the same year, the diplomat and her maid signed the state department mandated employment contract, which guaranteed Sangeeta an hourly wage of $9.75, indicating certain benefits and stating that impermissible deductions would not be made. It projected an average of 40 working hours per week (approximately a salary of $1560 per month) and stipulated off days and other details, all as required by the US state department for receiving the A-3 visa.

A few days later, Sangeeta is said to have asked for signing another contract to ensure that her basic salary, or Rs 30,000, was deposited to her account in Delhi as her husband was unemployed. Khobragade then signed a separate contract with the maid, on November 23, 2012, guaranteeing Sangeeta the same. According to Indian government sources, there was no stipulation about following US law as this was not for "ex-India purposes''.

According to the government sources, from November 24, 2012 to June 22 this year, until she went missing, Sangeeta was paid as per the stipulations of the November 11 contract as per the actual hours worked. Sangeeta's average work hours, said sources, would not usually total more than 40. She is said to have received many more actual sick days, holidays and off days than required in the contract.

So, how much was Sangeeta actually being paid and did Khobragade fulfill her November 11 contract for around $1560? According to government sources, Khobragade fulfilled all her commitments in the form of $560 (or Rs 30,000 transferred to Sangeeta's bank account in India every month), another $375 as deducted from the salary to pay for her chargeable utilities like telephone usage, cable TV, non-work related conveyance, expenses and another $625 given in cash, occasionally with signed receipts. As there were several months where the weekly hours fell well below 40 working hours, the cash payment was apparently adjusted accordingly.


Some signed receipts for salary payments are said to be in the possession of Khobragade. According to Indian authorities, Sangeeta also purchased many gifts to send back to her family in India, and there is witness testimony of at least four separate persons, who travelled to India from New York, that they carried gifts, cash and goods on behalf of Sangeeta to deliver to her children in India.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Nandu »

Rudradev wrote:US releases ISI agent & Kashmir Jihad activist Ghulam Nabi Fai from prison, abrogates his sentence.

http://m.rediff.com/news/report/us-cour ... ign=Buffer

Need more signs of a 180 degree turnaround in the "strategic partnership"? :mrgreen:
He got 8 months taken off in return for squealing on his associates, three of whom have been arrested based on evidence he gave. I don't think this has any strategic significance beyond that.
Sagar G
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Sagar G »

Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade arrest: federal agent made a "serious" mistake
In centre of a row, Devyani Khobragade, IFS, who was forced to submit to not just a strip-search but also a body cavity search, is facing a case that is full of confusion as authorities push and shove to present their view.

Devyani's lawyer today said US authorities goofed up in the investigation and arrest of the Indian diplomat on visa fraud charges as a federal agent made a "serious" mistake in reading the paperwork submitted regarding her maid's salary.

Daniel Arshack, Devyani Khobragade's lawyer, said Mark Smith, the Diplomatic Security Services agent handled the investigation and arrest of Khobragade and drew up and swore to the accuracy of the formal complaint in the case.

Smith "simply made an error in reading the DS-160 form which supported the visa application for the domestic worker, Sangeeta Richard," Arshack said.

"He erroneously and disastrously believed that the USD 4,500 per month salary entry on the form was Richard's expected salary when, in fact, it was clearly a reporting of the base salary to be earned by the employer, Devyani Khobragade, in the US," he said.

The lawyer said Devyani Khobagrade's base salary figure of USD 4,500 per month was required and appropriately reported on the DS-160 form, which is the online non-immigrant visa application required to be submitted by those seeking US visas.

It was submitted so that US Embassy officials in New Delhi could determine that Devyani Khobragade would be earning enough money to afford to pay Richard the USD 1,560 per month (9.75/hour for 40 hours a week) which had been agreed to according to the contract between Richard and Khobragade.

"Somebody who messes up on the paperwork and causes a terrible thing to occur is very very serious," he said.


Meanwhile, UN spokeswoman Morana Song confirmed Devyani Khobragade's accreditation to the UN headquarters here, saying, "The United Nations has received notification to register Ms Khobragade as a member of the Permanent Mission of India to the United Nations."

"We can confirm that the United Nations has processed this request per its standard procedures," she said.

Devyani Khobragade was arrested on December 12 on charges of making false declarations in a visa application for her maid Richard. She was released on a USD 250,000 bond after being charged with visa fraud.

Subsequent revelations that she was strip searched and held with criminals triggered a row between the two sides.
Sagar G
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Sagar G »

Facts aside people feeling sudden urge to show their mard-e-khan strain must continue with the show, it's interesting to say the least.
Sagar G
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Sagar G »

Alleged Visa Fraud Not Necessarily A Grave Crime: U.S. Attorney
The U.S. can still withdraw the alleged visa fraud case against Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade, although it could face some difficulties before the judiciary, according to a top American lawyer.

I think, in this particular case, when the issue is not necessarily mistreatment in a physical sense, but low wages, I think it moves a little bit more towards a serious crime, but not necessarily a grave crime,” G Douglas Jones, the ex-Attorney for the Northern District of Alabama, and currently the Treasurer of the National Association of Former U.S. Attorneys, said.

India has strongly objected to the arrest of 39-year-old Khobragade arguing that the allegations of visa fraud against her is not grave enough to arrest her, and thus the U.S. has violated Vienna Convention for Consular Relations of 1963.

The U.S., however, claims this to be a grave crime.

Jones conceded that the interpretation of the crime under the Vienna Convention is a grey area and it is for the governments concerned to define it.

“Laws like that are often subject to the interpretation of the person who wants to use the law either for or against the particular point. I can certainly see the Indian government’s point. From the U.S. point of view it is a serious enough crime that would merit some type of arrest. But in this country also remember that the nature of the crime is only aspect of a consideration,” he said, adding the flight risk of Khobragade could have been one of the reasons for her arrest.

“It is a very very sensitive and a very difficult case to manage at this point,” Jones said.
Rudradev
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Rudradev »

Nandu wrote:
Rudradev wrote:US releases ISI agent & Kashmir Jihad activist Ghulam Nabi Fai from prison, abrogates his sentence.

http://m.rediff.com/news/report/us-cour ... ign=Buffer

Need more signs of a 180 degree turnaround in the "strategic partnership"? :mrgreen:
He got 8 months taken off in return for squealing on his associates, three of whom have been arrested based on evidence he gave. I don't think this has any strategic significance beyond that.

If he is allowed to resume his pre-arrest activities, it certainly does.
ldev
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by ldev »

Details of the requirements of the A-3 visa given to Sangeeta Richards are given below: No deductions allowed for accommodation, food or any other extras provided. The only benefit allowed is that if if the A-3 visa holder is staying in the same house as the employer, there is no premium on overtime hours worked i.e. overtime paid at the agreed upon hourly rate at least according to US Federal Law. (NY state law may differ, and the employer has to be in compliance with both). Furthermore after 90 days, the salary has to be paid into an account in the name of the employee to be maintained in the United States, cannot be remitted to India by the employer.

http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/types/types_2637.html

Personal Employees

Personal employees, attendants, domestic workers, or servants of individuals who hold a valid A-1 or A-2 visa may be issued an A-3 visa, if they meet the requirements in 9 FAM 41.22 N4. As part of the application process, an interview at the embassy or consulate is required. Proof that the applicant will receive a fair wage, sufficient to financially support himself, comparable to that being offered in the area of employment in the U.S. is required. In addition, the applicant needs to demonstrate that he/she will perform the contracted employment duties. The consular officer will determine eligibility for the A-3 visa. Applicants for A-3 visas must apply outside the United States.

If the employer does not carry the diplomatic rank of Minister or higher or hold a position equivalent to Minister or higher, the employer must demonstrate that he or she will have sufficient funds to provide a fair wage and working conditions, as reflected in the contract. Consideration is also given to the number of employees an employer would reasonably be able to pay.

To apply for an A-3 visa, the visa applicant must submit each of the items explained in the How to Apply - Required Documentation section above, as well as the following.

The employment contract must be in English and, if the employee does not understand English, also in a language the employee understands.

Employment Contract signed by both the employer and the employee which must include each of the following items:

Description of Duties. The contract must describe the work to be performed, e.g., housekeeping, gardening, child care, and also must include a statement that the domestic employee shall work only for the employer who signed the contract.
Hours of Work. The contract must state the time of the normal working hours and the number of hours per week. It is generally expected that domestic workers will be required to work 35-40 hours per week. It also must state that the domestic employee will be provided a minimum of one full day off each week. The contract must indicate the number of paid holidays, sick days, and vacation days the domestic employee will be provided.
Minimum Wage. The contract must state the hourly wage to be paid to the domestic employee. The rate must be the greater of the minimum wage under U.S. Federal and state law, or the prevailing wage for all working hours. Information on the prevailing wage statistics by occupation and metropolitan area is available on the Department of Labor's Online Wage Library & Data Center website.
The contract must state that wages will be paid to the domestic employee either weekly or biweekly. As of March 2011, the Department determined that no deductions are allowed for lodging, medical care, medical insurance, or travel. As of April 2012, deductions taken for meals are also no longer allowed.

Overtime Work. The contract must state that any hours worked in excess of the normal number of hours worked per week are considered overtime hours, and that hours in which the employee is “on call” count as work hours. It also must state that such work must be paid as required by U.S. local laws.
NOTE: Under Federal law, the rate of overtime pay need not exceed the regular hourly rate if the employee resides in the home of the employer, but State law governing overtime rates also applies and must be checked. If the employee does not reside with the employer, overtime for hours in excess of 40 hours per week must be paid at the rate of time and a half.

Payment. The contract must state that after the first 90 days of employment, all wage payments must be made by check or by electronic transfer to the domestic worker’s bank account. Neither Mission members nor their family members should have access to domestic workers' bank accounts. In addition, the Department requires that the employer retain records of employment and payment for three years after the termination of the employment in order to address any complaints that may subsequently arise. Further, the bank account must be in the United States so that domestic workers may readily access and utilize their wages.
Transportation to and from the United States. The contract must state that the domestic employee will be provided with transportation to and from the United States.

Other Required Terms of Employment. The contract must state that the employer agrees to abide by all Federal, State, and local laws in the United States. The contract also must include a statement that the domestic worker’s passport and visa will be in the sole possession of the domestic worker. In addition, the contract must state that a copy of the contract and other personal property of the domestic employee will not be withheld by the employer for any reason. The contract must include a statement that the domestic worker's presence in the employer's residence will not be required except during working hours. The contract must also include a statement by the employee, promising not to accept any other employment while working for the employer.
Other Recommended Terms of Employment. The contract may include additional agreed-upon terms of employment, if any, provided they are fully consistent with all U.S. Federal, State, and local laws. Any modification to the contract must be in writing.
Important Notices - for Employers and Personal Employees/Domestic Workers - Personal employees are advised to keep their passport and a copy of their contract in their possession. They should not surrender their contract and passport to their employer under any circumstances. Personal employees and domestic workers are advised that they will be subject to U.S. law while in the United States, and that their contracts provide working arrangements that the employer is expected to respect.

Recent changes to U.S. law relate to the legal rights of certain employment-based nonimmigrants under Federal immigration, labor, and employment laws, and the information to be provided about protections and available resources. As a temporary visitor to the U.S., it is important that you are aware of your rights, as well as protections and resources available when you come to work or study here. Before your interview, review the Nonimmigrant Rights, Protections and Resources pamphlet and learn about additional information on our webpage.

The U.S. Government considers "involuntary servitude" of domestic workers, as defined under the Trafficking Victims Protection Act (TVPA), to be a severe form of trafficking in persons (TIP) and a serious criminal offense. Victims of involuntary servitude are offered protection under the TVPA. "The term 'involuntary servitude' includes a condition of servitude induced by means of any scheme, plan, or pattern intended to cause a person to believe that, if the person did not enter into or continue in such condition, that person or another person would suffer serious harm or physical restraints, or the abuse or threatened abuse of the legal process." While in the U.S., domestic workers are advised that the telephone number for police and emergency services is 911, and that the U.S. Government maintains a telephone hotline for reporting abuse of domestic employees and other TIP-related crimes, 1-888-373-7888.
It will be interesting to see if to meet the affordability hurdle, DK's husband's income was added to show that the couple could afford to pay the $9.75/hr wage rate to SR.

The other interesting issue is why was SR issued an official Indian passport. AFAIK that is not a requirement from the US, SR could have got an A3 visa on a normal Indian passport. The only reason I can figure out is an official passport could be cancelled anytime by DK, which has since done, a normal Indian passport cannot be cancelled by DK.
Last edited by ldev on 28 Dec 2013 01:15, edited 1 time in total.
chaanakya
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by chaanakya »

Theo_Fidel wrote:Beauty parlor?

Only thing that matters is what you are paid boss. Which was under $500 per month for 7 days a week work.

What if your boss starts deducting your coffee, cubicle rental, parking spot, A/C cost, toilet access, donuts on Monday & pizza on Saturday, Christmas dinner, etc.

How long would you stand for it.
Ohh She was paid $9.75 Plus all these. That is the case for Dk. And she was not obliged to pay $4500 as alleged by that Lo IQ Special Agent Mark J Smith. Remittance to India at rs 30,000 is misread as new contract to be paid which was computed to $3.31. Well most of the people try to send remittance to India that fact is well known.

The problem is there is no such case as of now in the light of fact revealed here. So all huffing and faffing is of no avail. Besides she had full immunity. Even With limited immunity she was not subject to Laws despite what their visa rules says.

And well my boss doesn't provide all these :((

Of course Beauty parlour doesn't matter but then her running away from marital home also don't matter. So why husband or Adarsh or anything would matter.
bhalluka
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by bhalluka »

All indications are that DK did not break any US wage laws. SR seems to have been treated well.

http://www.firstpost.com/world/devyani- ... 05073.html

DK did provide room, board, and utilities outside of work hours. Same meals that the family ate were provided as well. There is no expectation for employers to provide these "free of cost".

DK's sister Sharmista does brings up an important precedent of the US State Department sponsored au-pair program for similar services rendered.
Another illustration is the ‘au pair’ program sponsored by the US state department. The United States au pair program offers qualified young people (age 18-26) the opportunity to live and study in the U.S. for one or two years in exchange for providing up to 45 hours of childcare per week. Au pairs are provided a private bedroom, meals, remuneration tied to the minimum wage (USD 195.75 per week). Do the math. Divide USD 195.75 by 45 hours. Do you get USD 9.75 per hour? Or USD 4.35?
Amber G.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Amber G. »

BTW, another very senior person, the current Assistant Secretary of State for South and Central Asian Affairs in the United States Department of State is Nisha Desai Biswal (Indian-American -appointed by Obama this July)...The recent meeting between her and India's new ambassador to the US, S Jaishankar must have been interesting..
Sagar G
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Sagar G »

Devyani Khobragade accredited to the UN before arrest: India tells US
India has informed the US that Devyani Khobragade was accredited to the UN as a member of the country's delegation to the General Assembly before her arrest in a visa fraud case.

"We have been advised by the Government of India that Ms Khobragade was notified to the United Nations as a member of India's delegation to the United Nations General Assembly in September. We are currently looking into the matter," State Department Deputy Spokesperson Marie Harf told PTI on Thursday.

The assertion by the Indian government that Ms Khobragade was part of the Indian delegation to the UN beginning September, sources said, would grant her full diplomatic immunity and thus any arrest would be considered a violation of the Vienna Convention.


With the latest revelation, it has emerged that Ms Khobragade enjoyed full diplomatic immunity including from personal arrest and detention on December 12 when she was taken into custody by the US authorities in the visa fraud case.

39-year-old Khobragade, who was posted as Deputy Consul General in New York, was also accredited as an "Advisor to the Permanent Mission of India to the United Nations" by the UN w.e.f. 26th August 2013 and her status as an Advisor was valid until December 31, 2013. The accreditation was for the UN General Assembly 2013, sources said in New Delhi.

Under the "Convention on the Privileges and Immunities of the United Nations", Article 4 Section 11A specifies "Immunities from personal arrest or detention and from the seizure of their personal baggage" of all representatives of members to the UN and further the Article specifies that the expression "Representative" shall be deemed to include all Delegates, Deputy Delegates, Advisors, Technical Experts and Secretaries of delegations.

"Her arrest, therefore, on December 12th 2013 was contrary to her status on that date," sources said.


The 1999-batch IFS officer was arrested on December 12 on charges of making false declarations in a visa application for her maid Sangeeta Richard.

The diplomat was released on a USD 250,000 bond after being charged with visa fraud.

Subsequent revelations that she was strip-searched and held with criminals triggered a row between the two sides with India downgrading privileges of certain categories of US diplomats among other steps.
Theo_Fidel

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Theo_Fidel »

BTW I think the IFS is doing a disservice to DK by pretending that a claimed mental error can exempt her.
As Ramana pointed out ignorance of the law is not a defense.

Take a look at this guidance to DS-160. Page 16.

http://www.valmikiedu.org/study-abroad/ ... 60-USA.pdf

Right below monthly salary is the job duties.

Now take a look at the indictment.
12.B & 18.B
Says job duties are.
“The employee shall go to the USA with Employer as domestic….. …housekeeper or baby sitter.”

http://www.justice.gov/usao/nys/pressre ... plaint.pdf

There was no confusion.
Theo_Fidel

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Chanakya,

Not to challenge but where is it said she was paid $9.75. per hour. I may have missed it.

That works out to ~ Rs 1 lakh PM. AFAIK SR was not paid this.
---------------------------

g.

What to do saar. I'm old school, my dad always taught me ultimately the man of the house is responsible. Whether your kids misbehave or your wife gets into trouble ultimately the man is meant to deal with it. I have a tough time exonerating that Rathore guy. He was a USA citizen and knew the seriousness and possible consequences of all this. Why every NRI knows and sweats bullets every time a H1-B or a I-9 or I-485 is filed. Almost all of us have filed our SHQ's paperwork and dealt with the consequences.

How many of us lied to the INS and lived to talk about it. Zero.

Rathore is all big talk, but when the chips are down he let his wife deal with the consequences. Bet we would not have given a hoot if Rathore was strip & cavity searched.
-------------------------------------------

BTW I think it is good that Nancy Powell has no special privileges. Smacks too much of the old British Raj potentates. If she feels that unsafe in India it is best she not travel at all. What sort of relationship can she have with India travelling within her bubble. I bet India is safer than the Bronx or East St Louis or Washington Park in Chicago. Need a different 'ambassador' then. Bah!
chaanakya
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by chaanakya »

Theo_Fidel wrote:Chanakya,

Not to challenge but where is it said she was paid $9.75. per hour. I may have missed it.

That works out to ~ Rs 1 lakh PM. AFAIK SR was not paid this. !
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/12/17/polit ... -diplomat/

On wages
Khobragade's lawyer, Daniel Arshack, said the allegations were unsubstantiated. "When the facts are looked at, it's perfectly clear that Dr. Khobragade did nothing wrong," he told CNN's "Piers Morgan." "She paid her worker exactly what she was supposed to pay her and the government has simply made a whole series of spectacular blunders, which has enroiled (sic) them into quite a remarkable diplomatic kerfuffle."

He added that the housekeeper was paid "well above the minimum wage," and that his client had -- at the housekeeper's request -- sent a portion of that money to the housekeeper's husband each month in India. "The balance of her pay was paid to her in the United States -- all of it," he said.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-2 ... awyer.html
On Visa Fraud
Arshack said the DS-160 form, which was prepared and submitted online, called for Khobragade’s salary, not that of the babysitter. Khobragade wrote $4,500 per month, whereas the babysitter made about $1,560 a month, the defense attorney said. The U.S. alleged the babysitter in fact made closer to $500 per month, below minimum wage, citing one of two contracts between the two women and the babysitter’s statements.
On Immunity
Harf also said that Khobragade enjoys "consular immunity," a limited diplomatic immunity related to her official duties. Under the 1963 Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, consular officials can be arrested for acts committed outside official job functions.

The State Department said Khobragade's consular immunity does not cover the charges she faces.
As on date of Arrest she had full immunity. But even then under VCCR she could not be charges with labour related disputes. Even if she is charged , she could not be arrested pending Judicial decision of final effect. No one has pointed me to any judicial decision of final effect? Can you provide a link??

Even if arrested she should have been treated with respect due to her position. She was holding Consular General Incharge on the day of her arrest and is deputy consul General


And yes $1520 0r $ 1560 would translate into big sum in rupee that is why US is so attractive for Green Card Chasers Maid. Did you know that SR ran away from her Marital home in search of brighter pasture and returned only after learning of her pregnancy??
Did you read her diary which was so full of praise and happy times at NY.

Anyway I believe that she was part of espionage network. USa wanted to turn DK but failed and could have been taught lesson using SR. Why US showed no respect for Indian Legal System and ex-filtrated family in surreptitious manner. RSN says as much. My Fav CT anyway. :oops:
chaanakya
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by chaanakya »

Ok lots of arguments All are mentioned in posts starting from Dec 16th or 17th. and fact are getting repeated. My last on this and will post only if new facts emerge.
Suraj
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Suraj »

Sagar G wrote:Alleged Visa Fraud Not Necessarily A Grave Crime: U.S. Attorney
The U.S. can still withdraw the alleged visa fraud case against Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade, although it could face some difficulties before the judiciary, according to a top American lawyer.

I think, in this particular case, when the issue is not necessarily mistreatment in a physical sense, but low wages, I think it moves a little bit more towards a serious crime, but not necessarily a grave crime,” G Douglas Jones, the ex-Attorney for the Northern District of Alabama, and currently the Treasurer of the National Association of Former U.S. Attorneys, said.

India has strongly objected to the arrest of 39-year-old Khobragade arguing that the allegations of visa fraud against her is not grave enough to arrest her, and thus the U.S. has violated Vienna Convention for Consular Relations of 1963.

The U.S., however, claims this to be a grave crime.

Jones conceded that the interpretation of the crime under the Vienna Convention is a grey area and it is for the governments concerned to define it.

“Laws like that are often subject to the interpretation of the person who wants to use the law either for or against the particular point. I can certainly see the Indian government’s point. From the U.S. point of view it is a serious enough crime that would merit some type of arrest. But in this country also remember that the nature of the crime is only aspect of a consideration,” he said, adding the flight risk of Khobragade could have been one of the reasons for her arrest.

“It is a very very sensitive and a very difficult case to manage at this point,” Jones said.
It's very good to see sustained pressure generating internal debate about this within the US. The whole purpose of the pressure is to question their self-assumed right to define things themselves on a case by case basis, since no two cases are the same. When it comes to diplomats and consular staff there should be an effort to err on the side of a quiet diplomatic solution, and not an obdurate legalistic stand that's at best self serving; the US after all claimed that Raymond Davis - no more than a contractor - had diplomatic immunity after the shot and ran down people in TSP.
Theo_Fidel

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Chanakya,

The claim has been that the remaining amount was paid in India. Meaning ~Rs 60,000 pm. This is not allowed by law. Also there is no proof of this. The CNN article presents no proof either.

Not to say SR is pure white dove. She wanted immigration and change of status. Not very different than all those H1-B who file for change of status.

Understand the power dynamic. SR was the employee and DK the employer. Who has power over whom.

SR wants to be in USA and DK wants to be in India. I say we grant them their wish and call it good.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by saip »

What to do saar. I'm old school, my dad always taught me ultimately the man of the house is responsible. Whether your kids misbehave or your wife gets into trouble ultimately the man is meant to deal with it.
If that is how you feel then I must say your are an MCP :D

OT but years ago my wife applied for Passport in India and it was rejected because they said I did not apply for one or I did not give her consent. I felt at that time it is clearly illegal but did not have time to challenge it and so sent my app too. We lost valuable time and my wife lost an opportunity to go to gulf. Anyway recently I was in India and my sister wants to bring her maid to US (yea the maid again) as the maid suffers from domestic abuse but again I learnt that to get passport she needs to get her husband's consent. Looks like the rule is still there.
Prem
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Prem »

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/28/world ... .html?_r=0
India, Irate Over Arrest of Consular Employee, Retaliates Against U.S. Diplomats
NEW DELHI — India’s diplomatic corps, still seething over the arrest of an Indian diplomat in New York, continued its tit-for-tat campaign against American diplomats this week, revoking privileges, beginning tax investigations and issuing new consular identity cards that say the card holder can be arrested for serious offenses. We are in touch with you,” Syed Akbaruddin, the spokesman for the Ministry of External Affairs, said in a lengthy interview Thursday, addressing his remarks to his American counterparts. “You pick up the phone all the time. You clearly knew this arrest was coming.
“After all, we have a strategic partnership and cooperate on a range of issues, yet you can’t tell us a thing while doing all this stuff behind our backs?” Ms. Khobragade, the deputy consul general in New York, was arrested on Dec. 12 on charges that she fraudulently obtained a work visa for her housekeeper, forced her to work longer hours than agreed to and paid her far less than the minimum wage. Anger among Indians intensified after they learned that the United States had flown the maid’s husband and children out of India on visas meant for use in cases of human trafficking two days before Ms. Khobragade’s arrest, saying the family had been threatened. The human-trafficking designation deeply offended Indian officials, who termed the threats exaggerated and said the Americans should have discussed the matter with them, particularly since they had informed their American counterparts repeatedly about their concerns after the maid, Sangeeta Richard, left Ms. Khobragade’s employment in June.

A spokesman for the United States Embassy in New Delhi refused to comment on Thursday. Outrage in India’s tiny diplomatic corps is particularly acute because those who deal with the United States often feel overwhelmed by the sheer volume of communications. India has just three senior diplomats on its North America desk who deal with scores of counterparts from the United States and Canada. And the issue of the treatment of domestic help does not resonate in India as it does in the United States; nearly all officials in New Delhi have maids working dawn to dusk six to seven days a week, and generally earning even less than Ms. Richard did.
India has undertaken punitive measures that it believes puts American diplomats in India on par with Indian diplomats in the United States. It withdrew passes that allow American diplomats to meet important guests, like congressmen, at airport gates, and canceled the diplomatic identity cards given to consular officials and their families, reissuing cards only to consular officials. The cards instruct police officers that the person holding the card may be arrested for serious offenses. In addition, India is investigating whether spouses and employees of American officials are paying taxes on earnings made in India, particularly at the American schools in New Delhi, Mumbai and Chennai. India has canceled the United States Embassy’s import privileges for food and alcohol. And security barriers that once surrounded the embassy in New Delhi have been permanently removed. Indian officials say the barriers were unnecessary and in some cases impeded traffic. “We would not do anything to adversely affect the security of the U.S. Embassy,” Mr. Akbaruddin said. “To suggest otherwise is unfair.” There are 14 other Indian maids working for Indian diplomats in the United States, and India is negotiating over their status with the State Department. To India, these maids, like Ms. Richard, should be considered Indian government employees whose employment does not fall under American wage and hour laws.
Ms. Khobragade could leave the United States for India, never return and never face another day in court, but that seems unlikely because her husband, a professor of philosophy, was raised in the United States and has family there
Amber G.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Amber G. »

More and more it seems that Mr. Preet Bharara's office goofed BIG time, along with "junior staff" (if US reports are to be believed) of state department.

As some one, put it
"that the two capitals "laughing" at the crisis are "Beijing and Islamabad" .


It seems that (as reported in many recent blogs and main-stream media)..

1.Junior US legal and law enforcement staff made decisions without informing superiors (They did not understand the diplomatic consequences - all they succeed is to become a laughing stock and bring the whole US India relationship to a new low)

(There has been concern in New Delhi that Khobragade’s arrest was cleared at a senior level, indicating that the Obama administration was uninterested in the relationship.)

2. No one higher-up in India knew (or was informed) beforehand.


3. Obama, Kerry, and now it seems, State Department number two William Burns and Assistant Secretary for South Asia Nisha Desai-Biswal – none knew that US Attorney Preet Bharara’s office was preparing an arrest warrant for Khobragade that would be issued the next day. (This is claimed by senior US sources ... and that's what they told Indian foreign secretary Sujata Singh when she met senior US officials)

(Though it seems odd that Nisha Biswal, the diplomat in charge of South Asia, might not have known.. because New Delhi's US people were informed about missing maid (per news reports) and US state department sent a letter in September expressing "concern" about SR's allegations - May be Biswal was not sure or could not believe that Bharara will move so fast and recklessly)
Philip
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Philip »

Had Sangeetha had her surname as Raichur instead of Richards ther would be no US embassy ticket,super fast track visas etc.A clear US intel op using EJs too.The "company" appears to be the prime culprit.
Atri
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Atri »

so it seems, all this WAS in fact to extradite the richards family.. wonder why were they so important..

that said, I expected certain degree of finesse and polished behavior from amirkhan. I mean superpower and all, CIA should move around like smooth-operators. this reliance on coarse behavior and brute force is unbecoming of calling themselves a worthy successor of British EMpire. At least when it came to covert operations, Brits definitely were smooth operators than amirkhan.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Rudradev »

Atri wrote:so it seems, all this WAS in fact to extradite the richards family.. wonder why were they so important..
This is the only question worth asking in all of this. Who were the Richards, really? What explains their unnatural closeness to Uzra Zeya, the US political officer at Delhi Embassy from 2009-11, apart from the mere fact that Richards'parents worked for her? Was that enough, by itself, for Zeya to risk a major international incident by smuggling them out of the country while a criminal case was pending against them at the Delhi HC?

The Devyani arrest is a mere sideshow. What we need to know is how deep the connections go between these Richards and the former Political Officer of the US Embassy, who obviously felt massively indebted to them. Also, of course, what NGOs and EJ organizations were involved in maintaining that nexus (Zeya moved back to Washington in 2012, so obviously the connection went beyond a personal relationship between individuals).

Also, AmberG's post refers to a claim by US authorities that senior officials, including Obama, Kerry and Deputy Secretary of State William Burns "did not know" about the DK arrest and smuggling out of the Richards, that being a ploy of some junior officials acting on their own.

I really doubt the veracity of their claim especially as regards William Burns. Uzra Zeya moved back to the US to serve as Burns' trusted aide and Chief of Staff in 2012. That was her previous job before moving to her present position in Labor & Human Rights in March 2013. So she's not exactly a "junior official" with limited access either.
nachiket
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by nachiket »

Theo_Fidel wrote:
nachiket wrote:Not when your boss takes care of rent, utilities, food expenses, medical expenses and travel to India. People earning minimum wage usually have to deal with all that on their own and consequently, have a much harder life. The $500 she was paid, was basically $500 of disposable income.
Well then pay her minimum wage and live out in the city. If she refuses to work then you can't afford a nanny.

Be sure to ask your boss to dock your pay for coffee and donuts and any business lunches you take while you are at it. If not please sent me the money and keep only disposable income. Swiss bank account # supplied if necessary. Cash preferred. :D
You are comparing money spent on coffee and donuts in the office to rent, utilities, medical and travel expenses? :roll:
saip
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by saip »

Let the record show that my SHQ whereever she worked paid for her coffee and I wherever I worked paid for my donuts that I used to buy for the office staff once a month. :D
anmol
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by anmol »

src: http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/s ... 110906.htm
Part I: Wikileaks: Did India support Pakistani Taliban?
Part II: WikiLeaks cables on PM, NSA and Kashmir


Chidambaram's growing power

M K Narayanan's departure from the post of National Security Advisor was a strategic victory for Home Minister Chidambaram, who has tussled with the former over bureaucratic reforms that he viewed as critical in the wake of the 26/11 Mumbai attacks, then US Ambassador Timothy Roemer wrote in a cable dated January 22, 2010.

Following up on Political Counselor Uzra Zeya's coversation with Congress leader Divijay singh, Roemer wrote: "Congress Party General Secretary and Gandhi family insider Digvijay Singh told PolCouns (Zeya) that the Intelligence Bureau, Research and Analysis Wing, and the Central Bureau of Investigation all currently report to the PMO through Narayanan. Since his visit to the National Counter-Terrorism Centre in Washington in November 2009, Chidambaram has made several speeches and press statements expressing his desire to consolidate all intelligence, internal security, and counterterrorism functions under a single entity that reports to him, rather than to the NSA."

"Narayanan's departure and replacement by a career diplomat with exemplary diplomatic credentials, but lacking background in internal security, comports with Minister Chidambaram's reform agenda."

"Narayanan's departure and Menon's appointment are further signals of Home Minister Chidambaram's growing power relative to other foreign policy officials. In late 2009, the Home Ministry unilaterally announced changes to tourist visa requirements, usually the domain of the Ministry of External Affairs, which left MEA scrambling to cope with the ambiguous new regulations and media fall-out. Minister Chidambaram appears to be backed by the Prime Minister, despite lacking a strong electoral base."

"However, Chidambaram's management style and rapid ascent to power has rubbed many within his own party the wrong way. With media reporting that Vice President Ansari advocates Parliamentary oversight on intelligence (rather than the Home Ministry), Chidambaram still has challenges to overcome in implementing his reform agenda."
Wiki cable: http://www.wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/1 ... 116_a.html
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by sivab »

Amber G. wrote: It seems that (as reported in many recent blogs and main-stream media)..

1.Junior US legal and law enforcement staff made decisions without informing superiors (They did not understand the diplomatic consequences - all they succeed is to become a laughing stock and bring the whole US India relationship to a new low)

(There has been concern in New Delhi that Khobragade’s arrest was cleared at a senior level, indicating that the Obama administration was uninterested in the relationship.)

2. No one higher-up in India knew (or was informed) beforehand.


3. Obama, Kerry, and now it seems, State Department number two William Burns and Assistant Secretary for South Asia Nisha Desai-Biswal – none knew that US Attorney Preet Bharara’s office was preparing an arrest warrant for Khobragade that would be issued the next day. (This is claimed by senior US sources ... and that's what they told Indian foreign secretary Sujata Singh when she met senior US officials)
This falsehood needs to be nipped in bud. I had posted about this earlier and it was widely reported in Indian MSM. For the record, this operation had clearance from the highest levels of State Department. See below.
Rudradev wrote:
Also, AmberG's post refers to a claim by US authorities that senior officials, including Obama, Kerry and Deputy Secretary of State William Burns "did not know" about the DK arrest and smuggling out of the Richards, that being a ploy of some junior officials acting on their own.

I really doubt the veracity of their claim especially as regards William Burns. Uzra Zeya moved back to the US to serve as Burns' trusted aide and Chief of Staff in 2012. That was her previous job before moving to her present position in Labor & Human Rights in March 2013. So she's not exactly a "junior official" with limited access either.

From state department briefing on Dec 18

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/2013/ ... .htm#INDIA
QUESTION: Did Secretary Kerry personally sign off on the arrest?

MS. HARF: I don’t think that’s how it works. I’m happy to check. Sign off officially or – I don’t even – I mean, in any way --

QUESTION: Was he aware that the arrest was going to take place?

MS. HARF: He was certainly aware, yes, absolutely. He’s been kept up to speed on this case. I can double-check on exactly how it works.
She never answered the question of whether Kerry signed off on the arrest on 18th or subsequent briefing. Note that she only said she was ignorant of the process. However the fact that he knew beforehand and didn't stop it, tells volumes. If Kerry knew, everyone higher up in State Dept dealing with India knew. That includes Biswal, Burns etc. This was a well planned operation by SD and DOJ for several months.
nachiket
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by nachiket »

Pakistan lover John Kerry of the Kerry-Lugar Act fame, would have happily consented to harassing an Indian Diplomat.
saip
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by saip »

It may be true Kerry may be in the loop. But the reason this case became diplomatic bombshell is not because of the arrest itself but how she was processed. Even Barara may not be aware (I doubt it though) that the cavity search (looking into cavities and not digital probing though as far as Indians are concerned they are one and the same and equally humiliating) is an SOP.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by A_Gupta »

Top ten stories from India and neighbors in 2013, from a American P.O.V.:
http://blogs.cfr.org/asia/2013/12/27/to ... s-of-2013/
JwalaMukhi
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by JwalaMukhi »

The mistreatment of serving Indian diplomat is quite appalling. When this incident, occurred, the previous incident that came to mind was when Shri Ravindra Mhatre was murdered in Britian. The rest of ignominious treatments like patting down etc., did not register.
Looks like Indian diplomats seem to run into worst troubles when they are posted in relatively ("friendly"?) countries.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Gerard »

CJM stays flawed bail to U.S. ship crew

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/c ... epage=true
The CJM observed that it was shocking that bail had been granted in a case of national importance that concerned the security of the people of south Tamil Nadu. It was possible that the accused, being foreigners, might escape from the clutches of law anytime after paying Rs.10,000 each. In that scenario, the court could only issue a warrant for their arrest. Foreigners imprisoned here could be released on bail only after obtaining an assurance from the respective embassy that they would be available during the course of investigation
The CJM stayed the order saying that the conditional bail, with surety of Rs.10, 000 each, in a serious incident posing a challenge to national security, ran counter to the order passed in the case by the High Court a few days ago and a few other similar cases by the Supreme Court.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

Amber G. wrote: . . . . 3. Obama, Kerry, and now it seems, State Department number two William Burns and Assistant Secretary for South Asia Nisha Desai-Biswal – none knew that US Attorney Preet Bharara’s office was preparing an arrest warrant for Khobragade that would be issued the next day. (This is claimed by senior US sources ... and that's what they told Indian foreign secretary Sujata Singh when she met senior US officials)
Ahh. . .they are distancing themselves now that they realized the depth of the hole after sobriety sets in, perhaps. Finding a scapegoat. This incident did not happen without the explicit approval at least of that Biswal lady.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Gerard »

Devyani row: India, US blame junior staff for mess

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... 67077.aspx
That even Biswal, the diplomat in charge of South Asia, might not have known is being treated with some skepticism by both US and Indian diplomatic sources.
SSridhar
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

JwalaMukhi wrote:The rest of ignominious treatments like patting down etc., did not register.
Looks like Indian diplomats seem to run into worst troubles when they are posted in relatively ("friendly"?) countries.
As you say, even a pat down search must have been objected to and reciprocal retaliatory Indian action must have been initiated in India for their diplomats. But, we did not do that. More shockilngly, there are people who accept all these indignities and even more like a strip search, cavity inspection, cavity digital examination and incarceration along with prostitutes as normal American way of doing things that Indian diplomats should put up with. India's problems are as much internal as they are external.
SSridhar
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

Gerard wrote:Devyani row: India, US blame junior staff for mess

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... 67077.aspx
That even Biswal, the diplomat in charge of South Asia, might not have known is being treated with some skepticism by both US and Indian diplomatic sources.
Absolutely. We have made this point thirty pages before here. The MUTUs are in trouble. They should justifiably be in trouble and other MUTUs must learn and put up a better behaviour. The interesting point is whether the matter went up to Burns & Kerry and whether they are washing their hands off now and implicating a MUTU.
JwalaMukhi
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by JwalaMukhi »

SSridhar wrote: Ahh. . .they are distancing themselves now that they realized the depth of the hole after sobriety sets in, perhaps. Finding a scapegoat. This incident did not happen without the explicit approval at least of that Biswal lady.
Well, looks like the next step will be invoking like purelander birathers, it is all done by "Non-State Actors" onlee. Oh wait a minute, only CIA are supposed to be Non-state actors. Now CIA seems to have multiple competitors.

This is very well scripted, with providing visas to flying out people. Only one part of execution maybe did not go as well as anticipated.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by sivab »

SSridhar wrote:The interesting point is whether the matter went up to Burns & Kerry and whether they are washing their hands off now and implicating a MUTU.
sivab wrote:
From state department briefing on Dec 18

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/2013/ ... .htm#INDIA
QUESTION: Did Secretary Kerry personally sign off on the arrest?

MS. HARF: I don’t think that’s how it works. I’m happy to check. Sign off officially or – I don’t even – I mean, in any way --

QUESTION: Was he aware that the arrest was going to take place?

MS. HARF: He was certainly aware, yes, absolutely. He’s been kept up to speed on this case. I can double-check on exactly how it works.
She never answered the question of whether Kerry signed off on the arrest on 18th or subsequent briefing. Note that she only said she was ignorant of the process. However the fact that he knew beforehand and didn't stop it, tells volumes. If Kerry knew, everyone higher up in State Dept dealing with India knew. That includes Biswal, Burns etc. This was a well planned operation by SD and DOJ for several months.
SSridhar
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

sivab, thanks. It may be that Kerry verbally approved and asked Ms. Biswal to sign off. In any case, poor Biswal; just got the job and immediately involved in a massive row. She is going to be treated like Robin Raphael by India henceforth, I would guess.
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