arthuro wrote:India is willing to buy the rafale with all the Technology, know-how etc at a high price compared to LCA mk2 and a Mki upgrade because there is simply a reason some on this board refuse to see...
IAF/india know that nor the LCA Mk2 nor the Mki upgrade will bring the capabilities and/or technologies that are dreamt by some members on this board.
Instead of accusing IAF or Indian MoD of incompetence for choosing the rafale you should instead understand what are the reasons which make them say "there is no other alternatives" and why they are ready to pay so much to get the rafale and its technology.
Obviously they are not so confident with the LCA mk2 and Su-30 mki upgrade to stop pushing for a rafale deal as some would like.
There is a distortion between what is dreamt by LCA/SU30 enthusiast which gives LCAmk2 and SU30 all attributes and the reality perceived by Indian authorities. Otherwise like many say : Why going ahead with the rafale ?
I believe they are perfectly aware there is a huge difference in technology and capabilities in favor of the rafale. I believe they know LCA mk2 potential is very limited and that they are less than confident considering previous record on this program. I believe Su-30 mki upgrade (if it happens...) will increase sensor&EW performance but it will not change SU-30 mki old gen weapon architecture. It will remain a big aircraft with a big radar but with limited sensor fusion and thus will remain a step behind in terms of sensor integration, situation awareness and survivability. This rationale is consistent/coherent with decision of Indian MoD/IAF to push for a rafale deal.
Thats your nationalism coming to the fore in terms of jingoistic over the top proclamations that the Indian purchase of the Rafale is merely about technology, and that too superior French technology.
In the process, you avoid looking at the basic facts that the IAF wants a new source of supply than just being reliant on Russia alone for its requirements. The FGFA is also coming with Russia. The LCA is a tactical fighter with lesser range and payload but fits exactly into the IAF light category for which its designed.
And it would help to know the history of the MMRCA program. It was about procuring a cheaper single engine, medium weight plane, the Mirage 2000 to boost up the numbers when the Su-30 MKI program was still developing and a new induction. Instead, the Indian Auditors had it made into a multivendor competition with relaxed requirements. In which case the IAF went for the best 2 of the lot and picked the L1.
It has little to do with the Rafale being sooper dooper technology per se. If that were the criterion, the IAF would wait for the FGFA AND jump on to the JSF program which has better technology than on the Rafale, truth be told.
As regards Super 30 architecture, you really know little about the program, so please stop embarrassing yourself. It envisages a new IMA mission computing set up and the Su-35 already has sensor fusion.
Big Fighter, Big Glass
Posted by Bill Sweetman at 6/20/2007 3:14 AM
Sukhoi's Su-35,.... dominated by two 15-inch diagonal LCDs - more glass area than any other fighter cockpit, including that of the JSF. There are no mechanical displays in the cockpit, and the pilot interacts with the displays using a cursor control device on the stick and soft-key pushbuttons surrounding the glass.
The two screens are each split into four sub-windows, which are normally managed automatically according to the mission plan. Primary flight instruments are carried on the left side of the right-hand screen, with the left-hand screen being the primary display for maps and targeting information - so that the pilot can operate the screen with his left hand with the right hand on the stick.
According to Sukhoi engineer Alexey Mukhin, the Su-35 has a sensor-fusion avionics system which assigns each target a single identity - Sukhoi calls it a "passport" - and indicates which sensor or sensors have tracked it. The fighter also has an intra-flight datalink that can support four groups of four fighters simultaneously and share targeting information between them.
Guess what? The Super 30 upgrade pics so far show exactly the same cockpit layout. Food for thought, to anyone who had not brought so totally into my plane strongest coolaid (the Typhoon has it too, is being finetuned, and so does the F22/JSF and the Super Hornet is getting it in a block upgrade).
The Su-35 introduces integrated flight and propulsion control using three-dimensional thrust vectoring, providing full-envelope carefree handling with any combination of loads. It has electronic throttle controls and the system also manages the fuel load. One novel feature: when the pilot extends the refuelling probe, the aircraft automatically switches to a more stable flight control mode.
And needless to say, the Rafale does not even have the more proven TVC - which is operational on IAF Flankers.. think about what that does to nose pointing...and nor does it even have a FLIR channel yet.
Coming back to sensor fusion...and so will the LCA MK2 which program BTW, despite your constant disparaging allusions to it, has consistently delivered on the avionics front in terms of its mission computing, EW & sensor integration, with a cycle time of 2-3 years before complete replacements, let alone upgrades.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_vOp ... rences.jpg (the first point notes: 1.Advanced glass cockpit with high performance graphics to support situational awareness, Decision Support and data fusion)
Which facet, sensor data integration, BTW is already being demonstrated on the Indian AEW&C program
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XsneTR3Mxbk/T ... ster-1.jpg
Tell you what, stick to program costs and stuff and pure Rafale stuff, you follow that program and hence you are better off there then talking up tech comparisons with programs you barely understand or even follow.
For any fighter, there are the platform, sensors and weapons. Is there a reason why the MKIs cannot be upgraded for sensor fusion, AESA and very long range AAM capability ? 
