Navy Chief Resigns over Sindhuratna fire

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 27 Feb 2014 10:47

Well, he does have a point, the kilo has served quite well for decades in numerous services. All of a sudden there are discoveries of design flaws! What was it operating on for so long, high octane luck?

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 27 Feb 2014 10:47

chackojoseph wrote:Chalo it restores some faith that there was atleast 1 good person in Government in all these years.

Certainly not the "Saint"!

The second line of subs after the Scorpenes still not finalized forget ordering is going to bite us very, very hard. Just like the lost decade of the 90s for the surface fleet. Both times a Congi govt., quelle surprise.

Ministry of Disarmament indeed.

I think the IN chief resigned because he saw that there would be support for him or the IN from MoD to fix this problem, except sermons and homilies "to do better, not waste national resources, etc". With support he may have been able to do much better, in the absence of that the only honourable thing to do was resign. Wish IA chiefs also had the balls to do that protesting against the Ministry of Disarmament's successful attempt to deprive IA of artillery.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 27 Feb 2014 10:48

From TOI news posted above

S R Kapoor, and his inspection team were on board to test both the crew and the submarine before clearing it for operational deployment. In all, there were 94 personnel on board.

This has tell tale of Nerpa incident when the number of crew were almost twice as large as it should be normally on board ...leading to greater loss of life as the submarine was on trial .....so larger contractors/MDL/Naval officials were on board.

Normal Kilo carry 52 crews , I heard in case of our kilo the number is close to 60.

The mishap on Wednesday took place when INS Sindhuratna had just begun its "sea workup phase" after undergoing a refit at the Mumbai dockyard from May to December last year.

Thats a 6 month long refit and done at MDL .......Did not knew MDL did refits of Kilos ( they did it for Type 209 ) , Vishakapatnam was the place where Kilo refits were planned , 6 month long refit would be a medium refit wonder whats the purpose of it

But preliminary reports said a leak in the battery pit, which runs under the third compartment, could have caused the smoke to engulf the submarine. The submarine, in fact, was forced to surface after smoke was detected and the fire-fighting equipment kicked in.

Our Kilos and even Type 209 uses Indian Made Batteries from Standard Batteries
http://indiannavy.nic.in/book/submarine-arm

Acquisition of Improved Russian Submarines

Between 1986 and 1990, eight improved Russian submarines of the Kilo class were acquired. These submarines were quieter, had better sonar and used indigenously produced submarine propulsion batteries.

A hydrogen leak is always dangerous ..... could lead to an explosion like we saw with Sindhurakshak ....good luck and thanks to quick action from crew on board we didnt went there

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 27 Feb 2014 10:50

merlin wrote:I think the IN chief resigned because he saw that there would be support for him or the IN from MoD to fix this problem, except sermons and homilies "to do better, not waste national resources, etc". With support he may have been able to do much better, in the absence of that the only honourable thing to do was resign. Wish IA chiefs also had the balls to do that protesting against the Ministry of Disarmament's successful attempt to deprive IA of artillery.

I think the same ....Chief hand must have been tied and MOD was just sitting tight doing nothing and worst sermonizing as we have seen AKA doing

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 27 Feb 2014 11:06

ramana wrote:Admiral D.K. Joshi has done a honorable thing and kept the Indian Navy traditions of responsibility and accountability. He has shown unequivocally that the chief is always responsible. Hats off to him.

His action reminds us of Capt Mulla who went down in the INS Khukri rather than abandon ship.

Those who want post rumors of napunsak civilians and Ministers please don't sully the thread with such blige. You can in the GDF but not in this thread. Expect a one step ban for such behavior for not recognizing a honorable action when performed.

I come from a Navy family and this pretty much sums up my views.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 27 Feb 2014 11:15

Flag Officer Commanding in Chief Western Naval Command Vice Admiral Shekhar Sinha Resigns, Follows His Chief

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 27 Feb 2014 11:21

What is the purpose of other officers resigning? We need all hands to understand and fix the problem and move on.

nawabs · Post by **nawabs** » 27 Feb 2014 11:38

Naval Chief proving too tough on the Babus?

http://www.indiandefencereview.com/news ... the-babus/

Sources from the Navy disclosed that there was a buzz for over ten day that something was brewing up against the Naval Chief as he was proving too tough for the Babus of the MoD to handle. It just happened that this tragic accident occurred and the Chief rendered his resignation, no wonder it was promptly accepted. A morally upright officer has herby set very high standards for the existing and the future military leadership.

As soon as the news broke of the Naval Chief’s resignation, senior officials were contacted in the MoD who revealed that the Defence Minister Mr AK Anthony had tried to peruse the Admiral to withdraw his resignation but failed to convince Admiral Joshi.

The events dominating the headlines in past three years related to the MoD vs Military raises a serious doubt if the things are all in order or there is far more then what meets the eye. While the former Defence Secretary was busy concocting false story in collaboration with leading national English daily on an imagined military coup, the issue of modernization and capacity building has taken a back seat on the agenda. The weak political leadership it appears has been over shadowed by the babus of the MoD as it appears. It has emerged that the Naval Chief had been pressing for appropriate budgetary allocation necessary to undertake the maintenance of the ageing fleet but the MoD proved a major stumbling block to the legitimate demand. On the contrary pressure was being built on the service for poor safety and maintenance standards.

It has come to light that it was at the behest of Secretary Defence Production that the re-fitment of INS Sinduratna was being under taken at Mazgaon Docks Limited or otherwise it would have sailed to Russia for the same.

It would be interesting to see if the Govt of India orders a probe to find out the reasons why this submarine in question not sent to Russia for re-fitment which should have been the normal course and what was the role of the Defence Ministry officials of the MoD in the whole turn of events despite requests by the Navy.

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 27 Feb 2014 11:45

Vivek K wrote:What is the purpose of other officers resigning? We need all hands to understand and fix the problem and move on.

Herein lies the difference in mindset between corporate and military folks. What comes naturally to the military mind is often times contrary and confounding to those looking at from the mindset of a corporation trying to fix a defective product line.

What has happened, as far as these resignations are concerned, is how it should be.

And as far as fixing problems are concerned. Rest assured, they will be.

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 27 Feb 2014 11:57

Very honorable thing to do.
The associated sadness and despair follows but the right thing to do.
An example has been set for the Navy, Armed Forces and the Republic.

vina · Post by **vina** » 27 Feb 2014 12:03

Austin wrote:A hydrogen leak is always dangerous ..... could lead to an explosion like we saw with Sindhurakshak ....good luck and thanks to quick action from crew on board we didnt went there

About Sindhurakshak, the root cause has not been determined yet as a hydrogen leak which set off the initial explosion leading to the secondary explosion. If it indeed is the case and the same root cause of hydrogen leak is what led to the Sindhuratna explosion, then, the Navy Chief should have been ASKED TO GO, as it would amount to incompetence.

This twiddling around of thumbs and not raising the Sindhurakshak yet is inexcusable. The root cause of that accident has to be arrived at ASAP! Fortunately with the Sindhuratna it will be easy.

Hydrogen leaks are not "fated" /"vidhi" . There are safety systems that can fix it, requiring no operator intervention and maintenance. Stuff like Hydrogen Recombiners that are used in nuclear power plants like for instance from this Russian company - Elliron or Areva for instance will prevent dangerous hydrogen build up to levels that can lead to an explosion.

That said, if the fire suppression system went off on a false alarm, it would be absolutely damning to the Russian design. The Nerpa incident gives no comfort here.

My suspicion is that the Sindhurakshak was an oxygen torpedo that exploded (very dangerous things, the Japanese invented them during WWII as their Long Lance weapons and gave them great range and invisible running advantages over what the allies had and won many Naval surface battles for them, it seems that the long lance had two tanks, air tanks for starting , with oxygen taking over later when running) , that is exactly like the Kursk incident, while the Sindhuratna is like the Nerpa incident. Both cases of similar failures in Russian service getting replicated in Indian service.

The IN needs to junk dangerous Russian stuff and practices and get into Western levels of safety and reliability.
1) Get rid of oxygen torpedoes and go for monofuel ones (Otto Fuel), get the DRDO Thermal torpedo (running otto fuel) into service ASAP

2) Get passive hydrogen combiners into service in IN boats. Get the BARC and those guys to help out on an emergency basis

3)Phase out the Kilos at the earliest possible. They are past their life spans for at least 4 boats and get the Scorpenes into service ASAP.

4) Restart the HDW line and build the U214 . You need to de risk with 2 boats of different origins. Or a single fault in a particular line will ground the entire fleet.

5) Let L&T and others into the sub building business and let them build the HDW line.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 27 Feb 2014 12:23

^^ You are assuming many things hear .........we dont know if the torpedo exploded or not or the explosion was the secondary one after the primary explosion while loading Klub.

The submarine itself is used for 2 decades now by IN and only recently we faced this issue ........The Sindhuratna was itself being refitted by MDL and was on refit trials and there was no ammo on board

So there are many questions thats needs answers , With Sindhuratna it will be easy and we will find out quickly soon.

Till then no point in faulting the Torpedo or design or the crew unless the Naval Enquiry pins it down to one of these.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Feb 2014 12:25

I have been hearing about the P75I since when I first came to BR - in 1998 !!
ideas have ranged from tiny 1650t amur to 4000+ soryu size with a variety of fits vls and non-vls
in between brahmos has thrown its hat in the ring though actually its the Nirbhay also thats in ring now.

another 155mm saga.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 27 Feb 2014 12:35

BTW we have operated Foxtrot class submarine and not heard of any accidents .....any idea what Torpedo it used ?

vina · Post by **vina** » 27 Feb 2014 12:41

Austin wrote:Till then no point in faulting the Torpedo or design or the crew unless the Naval Enquiry pins it down to one of these

Oh, but let us put up articles dropping dark hints that he MDL refit/renewal is to blame and that some babus ordered that refit here and not in Russia as the root cause, while there is no fig leaf of such cover for the Sindhurakshak which had just returned from a full refit and renewal in Russia!

If you and others can speculate on "intangibles" I am on far firmer ground speculating on technical possibilities and prior accident histories of similar systems!

vina · Post by **vina** » 27 Feb 2014 12:42

Austin wrote:BTW we have operated Foxtrot class submarine and not heard of any accidents .....any idea what Torpedo it used ?

The same kind that blew up in the Kursk? And possibly in the Sindhurakshak as well?

And today, if the SRakshak class don't use thermal torpedoes as a result and are restricted to electric ones, that means a tactical limitation and loss of capability. In fact, I fault the IN for the Sindhurakshak accident, if the root cause was indeed the oxygen torpedo blowing up. They should have pulled that type out of IN service the moment the Kursk happened. Same with the Nerpa fire fighting system.

I am afraid that this taking Russia's "Dont worry, all is well, we fixed it" kind of thing led to replicating two fatal accidents that happened in Russian service in IN service.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 27 Feb 2014 12:50

No Kursk torpedo was the Type 65 one that had monofuel that torpedo was subsequently removed from service after the accident , No Conventinal Subs have 65 cm TT and the torpedo they use dont use monofuel , its electrical torpedo and Kerosene/Oxygen fuelled both types are used on Kilo.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Feb 2014 12:56

Rus has even managed to kill 9 or 11 skeleton crew on a sub under tow for scrapping per the wiki link I posted.

if it werent tragic for the poor 9 sailors it would be simply amazing how this whole affair was handled...and someone was saying we should bring in Rus for safety audit...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_submarine_K-159

vina · Post by **vina** » 27 Feb 2014 12:58

Austin wrote:No Kursk torpedo was the Type 65 one that had monofuel that torpedo was subsequently removed from service after the accident , .

Lets just say that you have your facts backwards. They removed the oxygen torpedoes out of service and stuck with the newer mono fuel ones.

Like Mr. Spock said, it doesn't compute otherwise.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 27 Feb 2014 13:01

INS Sindhuratna docked in Mumbai

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 27 Feb 2014 13:05

My belief that highly honourable men are at the top of the forces who put nation first ahead of themselves stands affirmed! My respectful bow to Sri Joshi, may his tribe increase. I am sure behind the scenes he must have communicated the utter apathy of the MoD towards the depleting sub force levels and put out a honourable exit in front of the public! Status quo prevailing after his exit will be a big loss to the forces and the nation. Heads must roll starting with St.Antony himself.

I now fully expect this issue and the concers over depleting force levels to die down and St.Antony blacklisting more and more firms to keep a clean image, armed forces be damned!

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 27 Feb 2014 13:07

vina wrote:Lets just say that you have your facts backwards. They removed the oxygen torpedoes out of service and stuck with the newer mono fuel ones.

Like Mr. Spock said, it doesn't compute otherwise.

The HTP (hydrogenperoxide) fuel one that leaked and caused the Kursk to sink ....that was the one taken out ...google a bit on it you should find.

http://adjunct.diodon349.com/Kursk-Memo ... 021902.htm

the commander of the Russian navy, Adm. Vladimir Kuroyedov, said a separate government commission investigating the disaster is still considering three possible causes: a torpedo explosion, a collision with a foreign submarine and a brush with a World War II mine.

Kuroyedov did acknowledge that the sub's torpedoes, propelled by volatile hydrogen peroxide, were unreliable. Other countries abandoned them after a 1955 explosion on the British submarine Sidon, he said; the Soviet Union began using them in 1957.

On Monday, Kuroyedov shifted responsibility for the torpedo's shortcomings to "scientists and designers," saying the hydrogen peroxide's "contact with certain metals may cause unpredictable consequences."

"The torpedoes have already been removed from submarines," Kuroyedov said grimly. "Now we are considering a replacement." Ustinov led the forensic examination of the Kursk, which was raised and towed to port in a delicate operation last fall.

vina · Post by **vina** » 27 Feb 2014 13:25

Austin wrote:
The HTP (hydrogenperoxide) fuel one that leaked and caused the Kursk to sink ....that was the one taken out ...google a bit on it you should find.

http://adjunct.diodon349.com/Kursk-Memo ... 021902.htm

Kuroyedov did acknowledge that the sub's torpedoes, propelled by volatile hydrogen peroxide, were unreliable. Other countries abandoned them after a 1955 explosion on the British submarine Sidon, he said; the Soviet Union began using them in 1957.

On Monday, Kuroyedov shifted responsibility for the torpedo's shortcomings to "scientists and designers," saying the hydrogen peroxide's "contact with certain metals may cause unpredictable consequences."

"The torpedoes have already been removed from submarines," Kuroyedov said grimly. "Now we are considering a replacement." Ustinov led the forensic examination of the Kursk, which was raised and towed to port in a delicate operation last fall.
]

Well, a couple of points here Hydrogen peroxide or oxygen is an oxidizer, not the fuel.The corrosion and explosions in peroxide, just an oil drop / grease in case of a leak, in the lines will cause an explosion , is exactly the same in a full oxygen environment. So peroxide or oxygen is immaterial.

The western navies moved to Otto II fuel precisely to avoid the fire and explosion hazard , like the Soviet oxidizer driven ones.The Russian Monofuel variant is new(er) and question is what do you do with current inventory. We should not have bought the Russian Kool aid and chances are that sindhurakshak and 18 crew might still be with us. If we hadn't bought the Nerva Kool aid, the sindhuratna's 2 crew might be with us.

Jaybhatt · Post by **Jaybhatt** » 27 Feb 2014 13:49

SwamyG wrote:More like an act of desperation than a sign of moral responsibility.

This is pathetic. True leaders and warriors who command a nation's sword-arm should never follow the path prescribed / insinuated by SwamyG.

Admiral Joshi has done the only honourable and appropriate thing under the circumstances, in keeping with the best military traditions. Anything else would have been quite unacceptable.

It is now for the Defence Minister, the Defence Secretary and the FOC-in-C Western Command to follow the example so nobly set by the good Admiral. Knowing Anthony and the IAS babu currently ruling the roost in South Block, one really cannot expect anything kosher from them. Cannot predict what Shekhar Sinha will do.

niran · Post by **niran** » 27 Feb 2014 14:27

Jaybhatt wrote:Knowing Anthony and the IAS babu currently ruling the roost in South Block, one really cannot expect anything kosher from them. Cannot predict what Shekhar Sinha will do.

the theme of the day is

Saint Antony asked tough questions ADM. Joshi could not answer them so he resigned

ackthoo!

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 27 Feb 2014 14:39

vina wrote:We should not have bought the Russian Kool aid and chances are that sindhurakshak and 18 crew might still be with us. If we hadn't bought the Nerva Kool aid, the sindhuratna's 2 crew might be with us.

You are assuming here the Torpedo exploded , We dont that know yet and the inquiry report did not make it out yet
Could easily be the Klub due to static while loading or some thing else , no point second guessing till we hear the official word.

IF torpedo on Kilo were a real danger IN would have removed it by now and would have stuck with Electrical Torpedoes on it.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 27 Feb 2014 14:57

Two officers died in fire on board submarine INS Sindhuratna, confirms navy

The navy said Lieutenant Commander Kapish Muwal and Lieutenant Manoranjan Kumar died in the INS Sindhuratna fire. They had been declared missing yesterday after the accident in which seven sailors were injured. Their bodies were found in a submarine compartment.

srin · Post by **srin** » 27 Feb 2014 16:23

I've been thinking about this. In an organization where obedience to higher authority is absolute, why did the Admiral, who is at the top of the pyramid, resign ?

My pure speculation here ...

I find it hard to believe that the Admiral couldn't enforce better safety practices. I find it really hard to believe that the officers of the Navy would willfully disobey the order of a superior. And yet he resigned.

It is obvious that he'd lost the confidence of the MoD and the RM. We don't require leaks from "defence ministry sources" for that. His letter of resignation says that the Govt had full confidence in the Navy, but doesn't say it had full confidence in him. A very noticeable omission.
Even if that were the case, why did he resign ?

Superfically seen, what would the resignation achieve except getting himself out of the line of fire ? I don't know but that seems unlikely - he didn't seem like a shirker.

More deeply, by taking the responsibility, he might be keeping others out of line of fire. That too seems unlikely, because people have died and it was his responsibility to ensure it doesn't happen again.

Normally, when someone in that position resigns, it is an expression of frustration and helplessness. And so, the real question is - why did the Admiral believe he was helpless ? The only conceivable entity that can cause helplessness in a Navy chief would be ... the MoD and the RM.

Is MoD the barrier to the modernization of the submarine fleet ? Is it playing games within the command heirarchy and breaking down the discipline ?

I can only conclude that the Admiral resigned because he believed he was in an impossible situation. In the corporate world, often people don't quit organizations, they quit bosses. It is possible and likely, that the Admiral has quit his boss.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 27 Feb 2014 17:12

Well, Why no one in MOD or Politcos ever take responsibility for failures in Defence procurement's and slips ups in Indegenisation

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 27 Feb 2014 17:19

srin, the grapevine has it that Adm Joshi was frustrated by MOD's performance and had a full blown row with Sri AK "snow white mundu" Antony. his resignation was a protest against the latter's bungling performance.

srin · Post by **srin** » 27 Feb 2014 17:22

Aditya_V wrote:Well, Why no one in MOD or Politcos ever take responsibility for failures in Defence procurement's and slips ups in Indegenisation

Surprising you should ask that. If the MoD babus or the netas were of such a mindset, they would have resigned half a dozen times already. Each blacklisting without a case, changing the birth date of an army chief no less, corruption related to Tatra involving a PSU which comes under the MoD, coup rumors, I don't know how many more.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 27 Feb 2014 17:24

Rahul M wrote:srin, the grapevine has it that Adm Joshi was frustrated by MOD's performance and had a full blown row with Sri AK "snow white mundu" Antony. his resignation was a protest against the latter's bungling performance.

If so, then more power to him. MoD has truly shafted the nation what with babus ganging up against the services and politicians always looking for scapegoats from the services. To clean the mess we need a can-do Raksha Mantri first and then integration of MoD with Service HQ second. The rest will follow.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Feb 2014 17:26

regime change is needed and someone like Khandury sir or Gen VK Singh brought in to clean the mess out.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 27 Feb 2014 17:36

There was an early report of the SR tragedy that a missile/torpedo hit the dock wall while being loaded at night.It was being loaded in haste so that it could leave on an early morning patrol.This suggests that one probable cause was a mistake was made while loading which set off a missile/torpedo.
The true reasons for the tragedy must wait until the sub is raised and the inquiry is over.The SRatna was at sea just after a refit at MDL.The inspection team was in the sub when the accident happened.The causes of this accident will be easier to discover and let's wait for it before running to condemn the sub's original makers.We've operated Kilos for 3 decades,Foxtrots before them,apart from the 4 German U-boats.All these years we've never had the kind of accidents as we've had during the last year.

Perhaps a review of the IN's safety procedures,etc., by a team of past chiefs is needed.The inescapable truth is that no new subs have been available for a smooth replacement of aging subs,which are being repaired and refitted to serve well beyond their intended lifespan.Accidents like these are more likely to happen in older boats.For this one has to thank the MOD and AKA for their sterling support to the armed forces in general and the IN in particular! With deaf min's like AKA and babus like those of the MOD,who needs enemies?

The track record of AKA as DM during the last decade has been a clear case of dereliction of duty across the board.No new arty. for the IA 26 yrs now,no decision on the LUH with aging Chetaks and Cheetahs still bearing the burden.The IAF facing a further crisis with hundreds of obsolete MIG-21s being retired and no new aircraft ready to replace them,and delays in the arrival of the IJT which may require another round of imports as an interim measure.The IN apart from new subs require about 100 multi-role /ASW helos to replace aging Sea Kings,etc. Everywhere there is a paralysis in decision-making barring fast-track imports from the US of items not on the priority list.AKA and MMS are two sides of the same coin.

srin · Post by **srin** » 27 Feb 2014 17:39

This throws completely different light. Shocking if true.

http://www.indiatvnews.com/news/india/k ... 34012.html

Before resigning on Wednesday, the then Naval Chief Admiral D K Joshi asked Vice Admiral Shekhar Sinha, the western command chief, to resign because of a spate of mishaps under his command.

Sources said, Vice Admiral Sinha refused to quit. It was then that the Naval Chief made up his mind. An upright officer, Admiral Joshi wanted somebody to take moral responsibility, and after his junior refused, he decided to give in his papers.

The Chief of Western Naval Command Vice Admiral Shekhar Sinha has been summoned to Delhi to explain why he resorted to insubordination. Sources said, he may be asked to quit, as it was his moral responsibility.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 27 Feb 2014 17:53

srin wrote:This throws completely different light. Shocking if true.

http://www.indiatvnews.com/news/india/k ... 34012.html
Before resigning on Wednesday, the then Naval Chief Admiral D K Joshi asked Vice Admiral Shekhar Sinha, the western command chief, to resign because of a spate of mishaps under his command.

Sources said, Vice Admiral Sinha refused to quit. It was then that the Naval Chief made up his mind. An upright officer, Admiral Joshi wanted somebody to take moral responsibility, and after his junior refused, he decided to give in his papers.

The Chief of Western Naval Command Vice Admiral Shekhar Sinha has been summoned to Delhi to explain why he resorted to insubordination. Sources said, he may be asked to quit, as it was his moral responsibility.

Since everyone is resigning, where is the fleet commander in all this mess??

Does the guy supplying somosas bear no moral responsibility at all??

The kangress dirty tricks dept has just kicked into high gear. The shroud of turin and the mundu of chertala are to be protected onlee

VK Singh is eagerly waiting in the wings for his cue.

negi · Post by **negi** » 27 Feb 2014 18:36

Rusty RU junk stuff is all small talk , Jalashwa too had H2S incident same happened onboard Harry S Truman as well as onboard ships in Australian Navy.

Use of HFC gases for removing oxygen from key areas is not just limited to Russian ships , IN's latest Shivalik class also use HFC as a last resort to remove oxygen from compartments that store ammunition like klub.

What is important to note is these systems afaik are never operated in full-auto mode I.e. Manual intervention is needed to activate HFC based systems (usually a command from CO) before someone activates the system at least this is the case onboard the Shivalik class .

It makes little sense to have these system operate in complete auto mode specially when one knows how poisonous freon or halon can be.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 27 Feb 2014 19:04

Captain Mullah chose to go down with the Khukri. Adm Joshi resigned over a submarine mishap.

These actions are to be seen in the same light.

My worry is that the precedent set by Adm Joshy should not go waste. The Military officers will remember, but the babu-neta combine is relieved ... "thank god he accepted the responsibility ... what a fool"

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 27 Feb 2014 19:21

Why AKA is still in the office????

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 27 Feb 2014 19:36

abhijitm wrote:Why AKA is still in the office????

Spotless white mundu