sonia singh @soniandtv 21h
Tragic !:-( “@ChennaiConnect: Major Mukund Varadarajan from 44 RR.Killed fighting militants in S Kashmir's Shopian. pic.twitter.com/gnMAEu9YZk”
![Image](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BmJ_IiqCYAA-HN3.jpg)
sonia singh @soniandtv 21h
Tragic !:-( “@ChennaiConnect: Major Mukund Varadarajan from 44 RR.Killed fighting militants in S Kashmir's Shopian. pic.twitter.com/gnMAEu9YZk”
nitin gokhale @nitingokhale 22h
Sepoy Vikram Singh originally of 17 Rajput, deployed with 44 RR, died while killing 3 terrorists in Shopian. RIP pic.twitter.com/7mXa5p94EL
The Americans name their ships after their Martyrs. What better way to honour these men than to ensure that their names live on after them!Prem Kumar wrote:we could rename the 800 odd yojanas from Nehru dynasty to names of martyrs
The products are there, we see them in Army exhibitions and DRDO fairs, but instead of testing those products in real life conditions like Kashmir & C'garh, we stress on IOC, FOC, dessert trials, winter trials and what not while useful lives are lost unnecessarily.prasannasimha wrote:It is high time we start using robotic instruments to kill these terrorists or gas them etc to flush them out.
If you go by the basis of the rough definition of Terrorism: " The use of or threat of violence to promote a socio-political-economic-religious ideology" most Indian political parties can easily be classified as terrorist but we simply call them "protests"http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 326189.cms
Can anyone tell me the basis of classification of militants and terrorists. Why is the press afraid of just calling them terrorists. Its high time we stopped archaic and politically convenient phrases like state actors/non-state actors, militants, infiltrators etc. We should call them terrorists and terrorist masterminds period. None of this dancing around with a hand in the pocket.
JAMMU: Three intruders were killed on Thursday morning during an infiltration bid along the Line of Control (LoC) in Jammu and Kashmir's Poonch district, police said.
A gunfight between the army and the group of heavily armed infiltrators is on, authorities said here.
Hi Alex, The strategy of 'Sam' (conciliation/persuasion/advise), 'Dam' (monetary inducement/temptation), 'Dand' (force/punishment) and 'Bhed' (splitting/exploiting the secrets) comes from the book of Chanakya Neeti authored ky Kautilya (also known as Chanakya).Alex wrote:I have come across some interesting work on military philosophy in Indian counterinsurgency. It refers to the impact of Kautilyan statecraft philosophy (refers to the principles of 'conciliation,' 'monetary inducement,' 'splitting' and 'force' as fundamentals of COIN, that can be used in any number of combinations to defeat insurgent movements) on Indian counterinsurgency. I came across this argument in the works of Kaushik Roy (Jadavpur University) and Subir Bhaumik (former BBC Northeast India Correspondent). While this is similar to the 'hearts & minds' literature and discusses many of the same concepts, it has a slightly different emphasis that H&M approaches perhaps downplay, which I find interesting.
Wondered what people thought to this argument, and if anyone could point me toward more of similar kinds of literature in order to gain a better understanding of this line of thinking?
A disturbing sense of calm has enveloped Bastar in the past few weeks. The Maoist-hit region in south Chhattisgarh has seen few incidents of violence since the Narendra Modi-led NDA government was sworn in at the Centre. But, to the predominantly tribal population of Bastar, this uneasy stillness is more like the lull before a storm. After all, the Maoists are yet to show any signs of giving up the path of violence to achieve their goal of “overthrowing the Indian State”. The current respite from violence only means that the Red rebels are watching the new regime’s moves and waiting to strike at an opportune moment.
Sources suggest that several Maoist-affected states, including Chhattisgarh, are planning a coordinated operation against the Red extremists. The Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA) will be the nodal agency for the entire operation and work closely with all the affected states. The Centre has kick-started the operation by approving the deployment of 10 additional battalions of paramilitary forces in Chhattisgarh.
Police officials in Chhattisgarh, however, are upbeat about the resolve shown by both the Centre and the state government to take on the Maoists. “We will now be able to deal with Naxalism the way we want to. The Centre is at least listening to us patiently now. Earlier, they used to raise all sorts of questions. But this time, they not only heard us out in the very first meeting, but they also immediately cleared several of our demands.”
I no longer don the uniform. But I did once, in the year the recently released movie Haider is set. And in the same place, the Kashmir Valley. I may have been young then, and Haider may be a work of fiction, but I did come across many characters Vishal Bhardwaj and Basharat Peer have crafted for the movie. More significantly, I was a part of the environment the movie is set in, and may have even shaped it in my own little way.
Of course, no Indian movie can have Indian Army as the villain and so the movie ends up depicting the pro-India counterinsurgency group, Ikhwaan as the evil guys. That's the closest --- by proxy --- Peer and Bhardwaj could have come to showing India and Indian Army as being the bad guys. Subtle but well done and par for the course for a political movie. So what was the truth about Ikhwaan-ul-Muslimoon?
....
Everything the movie says about Ikhwaan is perhaps true. The group was supported by the Indian Army and operated alongside it. It countered terror with terror of its own against Pakistan-backed terrorists and their over ground supporters. Ikhwaanis illegally felled timber and sold it (Koka Parray acknowledged that in an interview to Harinder Baweja of India Today in 1995), extorted money from shopkeepers, street vendors and even bus-passengers at checkpoints it established. It also probably did things much worse than that. After all, these Ikhwaanis had been trained in Pakistan, had operated as terrorists and knew how to fleece the Kashmiris for personal benefits.
Why did Indian Army prop up Ikhwaanis under Koka Parray? Koka Parray was a folk-singer from Hajan who was trained in PoK and later surrendered after being with the Hizbul Mujahideen. Till 1994, he was a small-time informer for the infantry battalion at Manasbal, who gained such prominence by 1995 that he was being courted by top military commanders and politicians. Koka Parray was a prized asset not only because he could do the dirty job for the army, but because he was the only one to provide a breakthrough in a war India seems to be losing --- or at best, not winning --- in Kashmir.
Ikhwaanis provided intelligence, intimate local knowledge and understanding of the militant tactics which the army didn't possess. The success was immediate and reflected in the parliamentary elections of 1996. Most people forget that even Farooq Abdullah had boycotted the 1996 Lok Sabha polls, anticipating that they will be a stunning failure. The "success" of 1996 Lok Sabha polls encouraged Dr. Abdullah to participate in the 1996 Vidhan Sabha elections, which led to resumption of the political process and Kashmir's slow march towards normalcy.
What was India like in early 1990s? It was still recovering from the economic crisis and politically, it was in great turmoil. Babri Masjid had been demolished by the Sangh Parivar, Rajiv Gandhi had been assassinated by the LTTE, Mandal Commission had opened cleavages in the society, militancy was still at its peak in Punjab, and serious charges of corruption (from Harshad Mehta and payment to JMM MPs to Urea Scam) were levelled against PM Narasimha Rao.
Internationally, the Cold War had ended with the disintegration of India's strategic ally, the USSR. Pakistan had been at the forefront of defeating the Soviets in Afghanistan, and the world's sole superpower owed Pakistan a few favours. So much so that Robin Raphael, First Assistant Secretary of State for South and Central Asian Affairs under President Clinton, was actively supporting Kashmiri separatism and helped form the Hurriyat as a political face of the Pakistan-fuelled militancy in Kashmir. In those pre 9/11 days, there was no global consensus against Islamist terror. India felt under siege, both at home and abroad. It is in these circumstances that the Indian establishment took to Ikhwaan as a tactical succour. And however loathe we might be to acknowledge it today, the coming in of Ikhwaanis turned the tide in India's favour. It was not the best option but as anyone who has served in counterinsurgency knows, there are no good options in counterinsurgency. You always choose the least bad option and perhaps Ikhwaan was the least bad option at that time.
It must be reiterated though that whether due to Kashmiri politics or due to Indian apathy, the Ikhwaanis were soon marginalised and ceased to exist, both as a counterinsurgent group and as a political force in the Valley. Praveen Swami's obituary in Frontline magazine of Koka Parray after his killing by two Hizbul terrorists in 2003 adequately captures the decline of Ikhwaan in the state. That reinforces my belief that Ikhwaan wasn't a strategic choice exercised by the Indian Army but only a tactical ploy to overcome a very difficult situation at a specific time. Weren't Petraeus and other American generals hailed for doing the same in Iraq?
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The interrogation centre in Haider is called Mama-2, a clever nod to the now-mythologised interrogation centre called Papa-2 in Srinagar. But the movie gets it wrong. Papa stands not for father but for the phonetic word associated with letter P; if it started with letter M, the place would be called Mike and not Mama. Frivolities aside, Papa-2 was run by BSF --- not the army though it got intelligence ascertained from militants detained there --- and closed down in 1996. Did torture happen in Papa-2 or in other detentions by the security forces?
...
+1schinnas wrote:Containing and eliminating naxal issue is doable with a combination of inclusive development and diligent strategy and strong action against top leaders. Indira Gandhi nearly killed naxalism in India, but after her passing it has gained ground. I am confident Modi sarkar will get the job done.
Thanks for your response. I did indeed read up on aspects of Kautilyan statecraft and, more broadly, the impact of other strategic philosophies (dharmayuddha vs kutayuddha at its broadest) throughout history and incorporated aspects of this into my thesis. Thanks very much for the above responses.Asit P wrote: Hi Alex, The strategy of 'Sam' (conciliation/persuasion/advise), 'Dam' (monetary inducement/temptation), 'Dand' (force/punishment) and 'Bhed' (splitting/exploiting the secrets) comes from the book of Chanakya Neeti authored ky Kautilya (also known as Chanakya).
This philosophy is not just confined to CI rather this has a much wider use in the field of diplomatic rivalry, power struggle and even in an event of war. You may want to read about Kautilya and his disciple Chandragupta Maurya to get the context of this philosophy.
Dawood ibrahim = Wooden ApostleLutyens Masala @LutyensMasala · Nov 16
For twenty years they couldn't catch Wooden Apostle. A hack tells me, Invincible Pigeon sees himself as Arjun. His Fish-eye? Wooden Apostle.
Lutyens Masala @LutyensMasala · Nov 16
"I have old scores to settle with Wooden Apostle," Invincible Pigeon told this right wing hack. "And this time I have a patriot backing me."
Lutyens Masala @LutyensMasala · Nov 16
"In 2005 Pak shifted Wooden Apostle to PoK for a week," said Pigeon to our hack. "I pleaded with friends to bomb him. Pleaded. They didn't."
this is worth in goldAditya G wrote:FWIW only ....
Dawood ibrahim = Wooden ApostleLutyens Masala @LutyensMasala · Nov 16
For twenty years they couldn't catch Wooden Apostle. A hack tells me, Invincible Pigeon sees himself as Arjun. His Fish-eye? Wooden Apostle.
Lutyens Masala @LutyensMasala · Nov 16
"I have old scores to settle with Wooden Apostle," Invincible Pigeon told this right wing hack. "And this time I have a patriot backing me."
Lutyens Masala @LutyensMasala · Nov 16
"In 2005 Pak shifted Wooden Apostle to PoK for a week," said Pigeon to our hack. "I pleaded with friends to bomb him. Pleaded. They didn't."
Ajit Doval = Invincible Pigeon
Newb question, who is Lutyens Masala/Spice? I have heard the name thrown around but never evinced my interest until now. I looked through his twitter handle and i find that it has a lots of interesting tidbits. Shame that there isint a list of code names to persona's i can consult to figure out who some of the principle characters of these tidbits are..VikB wrote:this is worth in goldAditya G wrote:FWIW only ....
Lutyens Masala @LutyensMasala · Nov 16
For twenty years they couldn't catch Wooden Apostle. A hack tells me, Invincible Pigeon sees himself as Arjun. His Fish-eye? Wooden Apostle.
Lutyens Masala @LutyensMasala · Nov 16
"I have old scores to settle with Wooden Apostle," Invincible Pigeon told this right wing hack. "And this time I have a patriot backing me."
Lutyens Masala @LutyensMasala · Nov 16
"In 2005 Pak shifted Wooden Apostle to PoK for a week," said Pigeon to our hack. "I pleaded with friends to bomb him. Pleaded. They didn't."
Dawood ibrahim = Wooden Apostle
Ajit Doval = Invincible Pigeon
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/s ... 639351.eceThe deceased included four militants holed up in a bunker after possibly infiltrating into the Arnia sector from across the border in Jammu district. At least one militant was alive and the encounter was still on, police said. Tanks have been deployed in a possible move to blast the bunker. Mr. Modi is due to address a rally on Friday in Udhampur district.
HESH, and to a lesser extent HEAT are more effective against bunkers than FSAPDS. Not to mention a variety of options available with Carl Gustav.SajeevJino wrote:http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/s ... 639351.eceThe deceased included four militants holed up in a bunker after possibly infiltrating into the Arnia sector from across the border in Jammu district. At least one militant was alive and the encounter was still on, police said. Tanks have been deployed in a possible move to blast the bunker. Mr. Modi is due to address a rally on Friday in Udhampur district.
damn Only one AFSPDS round enough to Smash the Bunker ... but till now why they not doing this
APFSDS is only useful for making neat little holes in tanks, the tank armour and the tungsten or DU penetrator (just a huge metal crossbow bolt without any explosives) results in a spray of molten metal and shrapnel on the inside from the impact. This does not always happen and sometimes the round will pass right through both sides of the tank, in these cases you need to hope for a lucky shot to hit someone or something critical inside the tank.SajeevJino wrote:http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/s ... 639351.eceThe deceased included four militants holed up in a bunker after possibly infiltrating into the Arnia sector from across the border in Jammu district. At least one militant was alive and the encounter was still on, police said. Tanks have been deployed in a possible move to blast the bunker. Mr. Modi is due to address a rally on Friday in Udhampur district.
damn Only one AFSPDS round enough to Smash the Bunker ... but till now why they not doing this
Huh, i guess i must have missed that. Hope we have formulated some identification measures to neutralize this tactic. As we move to network centric and future warfare, personal IFF systems similar to those used on aircraft should begin to be used by Infantry.sum wrote:^^ Umm, actually they have used this tactic quite a bit recently.
Even the last set of fatalities was where a IA checkpost was attacked by pests dressed in army fatigues 1-2 months back
What video? could you link please? Those BMP's autocannons will shred just about anything... I hope they were used in the encounteruddu wrote:No tanks were used. BMP was the one that was seen in the video and not any tanks as such.