Mangalyaan: ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 26 Sep 2014 20:41

Any possibility that MOM be throwen back to earth after six month. It can be slow very slow........to captured by ISROs Antrixyan. Lets play ping pong.

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 26 Sep 2014 20:47

China Planning Mars Mission 'Better than India's'
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/china-planning ... as-1467328

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 26 Sep 2014 21:31

Yes, the satellite will have a longer, thicker probe.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 26 Sep 2014 21:31

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 536018.cms

Life span of MOM may be extended to one year: Scientist
PTI | Sep 26, 2014, 06.16 PM IST

THIRUVANANTHAPURAM: Expressing satisfaction over the success of the Mars Orbiter Mission, K Sivan, director of Liquid Propulsion Systems Centre at Valiamala near here on Friday said the life of the orbiter may be extended to one year from the planned six months.

"The life of the satellite was planned for six months. What we understand now is that it may go to one year," he said while interacting with media during a felicitation ceremony organised by the Press Club here to honour a group of scientists of the Liquid Propulsion Systems Centre (LPSC), which played a significant role in the Mars mission.

"We are not keen to keep the orbit in a precision mode and the aim is to keep the satellite active and make use of the last gram of propellant," Sivan said.

Regarding the criticism to the Mars Mission Project, he said it was not just for taking photographs of the red planet. "It is a prospect given to the younger generation. It is an opportunity and challenge for them. When you have anything before you to challenge, then only you can go forward," he said.

"The ISRO started with a rocket launch which has now become a pioneer and every citizen is now linked to one way or other to space applications", Sivan said, adding, so the present Mars mission was also for future generation. The contribution of LPSC, which built the crucial Liquid Apogee Motor for Mangalyaan, was more significant in the mission than the other centres of ISRO, he said.

"Mangalyaan is a fully satisfied mission, The accuracy we achieved was very high. It placed India in the top of the map of world space science," he added.

Sivan said the space agency was also working on a technology that can send man to the moon.

"We are also developing capability and technology for manned mission to moon. He have a policy and we will do it when we mature on it," he said.

The scientist said the most complex part of the mission was to keep an engine idle for 300 days and make it activate after a long gap.

N R Vishnu Kartha, associate director, LPSC, said the centre was working on to develop a higher capacity payload.

"Though we have limitations, if required, we can send a man also to the space. But we should have a more reliable vehicle if we want to send a man. Life supporting system also should be developed," he said.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 26 Sep 2014 22:07

What are they trying to study if they are letting MOM crash into Mars?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 26 Sep 2014 22:07

Amber G. wrote:The fuel is needed only for adjusting things are antenas and stuff.. )

saab ji, can't it use the lion battery for this?

slightly ot:(sorry), mom falling into red planet is anti-isro thought/jmt

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 26 Sep 2014 22:08

SaiK wrote:
Amber G. wrote:The fuel is needed only for adjusting things are antenas and stuff.. )
saab ji, can't it use the lion battery for this?

Newtons 3rd law.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 26 Sep 2014 22:10

gotcha

Yayavar · Post by **Yayavar** » 26 Sep 2014 23:16

Just heard on radio that Maven will put Mars between itself and the comet at the comet's closest approach to shield the instruments. It will take readings before and after those critical hours. I suspect MOM will shield itself too. Are there 'upward looking' cameras and instruments on the curiosity rover ?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 27 Sep 2014 00:03

does mom's orbit intercept with comet path?

SSSalvi · Post by **SSSalvi** » 27 Sep 2014 00:22

^^^
^^^

Refer figure on page 34 of this thread for the Geometry of the 3 bodies during nearest pass of SS.

There seems to be some misunderstanding about the Radio program. What I am writing here is not to question you but just sharing my thoughts. Please do not misunderstand me.

1. How does the Comet affect MAVEN or MOM?
2. What does Closest approach mean? Is it that instant when the comet is closest to Mars it is harmful and not equally harmful within +/- few days?
3. Comet does not emit any rays which will be harmful to instruments but yes its tail does release ( or rather, the planet caught in its tail 'pulls', the shower of dirt ) which is harmful to Solar cells and the craft body. That lasts for a few hours and MAVEN , with its orbital period of 35 hrs will be behind Mars ( afa SS is concerned ) only for an hour or two. It can't shield itself from that shower for rest of the time. ) moreover the time when it will be shielded can't be changed unless you sacrifice a lot of fuel jeopardizing the mission life substantially. MAVEN is fully exposed to SS at the iinstant when SS is closet
4. As far as MOM is concerned it is in a large and nearly 'equatorial' orbit and SS will be passing over nearly its pole so MOM is always fully exposed to SS. It can't shield itself behind Mars.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 27 Sep 2014 03:20

SS as seen by hubble on 11.3.14

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C/2013_A1
the nominal pass is 0.000928 AU (138,800 km; 86,300 mi) from the center-point of Mars and the uncertainty region shows that it will not come closer than 0.000917 AU (137,200 km; 85,200 mi).[6]

so, given MOM's orbit, the only question I have is "what is center point of mars" mean?

if it is equator/surface we have some extra that much space or if it is center of mars sphere, then there is likely concern within the apogee intersection.

akashganga · Post by **akashganga** » 27 Sep 2014 06:11

Some idiots posted this video - INDIA's MANGALYAAN SPOTS BLUE UFO....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eut5tCz6UQQ

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 27 Sep 2014 06:19

I hope they use the remaining fuel to gently lower the craft into the mars atmosphere and obtain measurements/ pics as it goes down. While it would have lived a useful life during its prime, it can give us more data if we decide to send a rover kind of mission.

SSSalvi · Post by **SSSalvi** » 27 Sep 2014 06:25

^^^
^^^
Gud photoshopping

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 27 Sep 2014 08:56

on the SS trail

side note:
freeze@2:25 to check out the Maven team. not a single indic face.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Sep 2014 09:23

SaiK wrote:on the SS trail

side note:
freeze@2:25 to check out the Maven team. not a single indic face.

Volatile spelt as "volittle" as the Americans mispronounce it.

negi · Post by **negi** » 27 Sep 2014 12:36

I do not know why are we even defiling this thread by bringing in napunsak's name , for thousands of crores which went accounted for and looted under his watch crediting him for okaying release of 650 crores is classic example of clutching at the straws.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 27 Sep 2014 12:49

Heroes of MOM

@brajeshlive thank you. I am Kamalesh sharma from UP and prime controller of MOM.(white shirt),commanding during MOI pic.twitter.com/FXytd7gAkI

http://t.co/FXytd7gAkI

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 27 Sep 2014 17:32

Incidentally was looking up at the first icture and comparing it collated images available and what looks like shutter delay are actually "plumose streaks" and the so called "raw " image is actually picture of an active dust storm on Mars as mentioned by someone else.The so called streaks coming from minor craters that look like "camera shake" in the picture are actually been photgraphed and not an artifact.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 27 Sep 2014 17:51

Dilbu wrote:What are they trying to study if they are letting MOM crash into Mars?

During a controlled crash they can study the mars atmospheric entry conditions etc during the crash.Also if they coordinate with NASA they could probably study the crash plume when the crash occurs and the data can be analyzed.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 27 Sep 2014 18:18

shiv ji, that would be khaan ishtyle of pronouncing intentionally started to deviate from cockney ishtyle of speaking. general habit onlee: vowels and syllables, where if only one syllable in a word say the vowels as long vowel, two syllable, two vowels, then make the first one long vowel, and the second one short. any thing more is complex, and normally the last syllable with vowel becomes short vowel. but, the pattern may not be exactly true./OT.

---

On the cost comparison and pisskology drive we are doing (started by modi ji) may be fine politically, but we have to give due validations that funding projects like these are mission profile specific.. you don't want to grow a setup where there is huge difference is salary profiles for scientists and those techies go to khanland or do JS code for kitab-e-chehare. We have to also consider what is the mission profile and compare needs and missions itself.

tested models evaluate to be on higher investments than modeled tests. NASA spends more than ISRO for various other reasons.. CMMI approach etc., and their ishtyle of doing things are different, and ISRO definitely challenge that. But, it should not be at a diametric evaluation within our society, where two scientist friends one working for private and one for ISRO be on the opposite side of living conditions, and economic state.

/jmt

negi wrote:I do not know why are we even defiling this thread by bringing in napunsak's name , for thousands of crores which went accounted for and looted under his watch crediting him for okaying release of 650 crores is classic example of clutching at the straws.

+1 .. and the same straw is seen when one compare mission profiles of various country's space programs. one has to be careful and be mature when giving out statements. it is okay to discuss here, but definitely has a deeper scope if it comes out from PMO.

member_28332 · Post by **member_28332** » 27 Sep 2014 18:47

shiv wrote:

Volatile spelt as "volittle" as the Americans mispronounce it.

Not mispronounce but pronounce it differently.

SaraLax · Post by **SaraLax** » 27 Sep 2014 18:49

prasannasimha wrote:
Dilbu wrote:What are they trying to study if they are letting MOM crash into Mars?
During a controlled crash they can study the mars atmospheric entry conditions etc during the crash.Also if they coordinate with NASA they could probably study the crash plume when the crash occurs and the data can be analyzed.

I am not sure we can have the MoM crash into Martian land unless it has been completely sterilized prior to its liftoff from earth. I believe - this is due to the requirement that 'earth specific' organisms & tiny microbes not get transferred into Mars amd 'pollute' them. So the question then is - Is MoM sterilized for enabling it to crash into Mars's land ?

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 27 Sep 2014 19:00

I am not sure we can have the MoM crash into Martian land unless it has been completely sterilized prior to its liftoff from earth. I believe - this is due to the requirement that 'earth specific' organisms & tiny microbes not get transferred into Mars amd 'pollute' them. So the question then is - Is MoM sterilized for enabling it to crash into Mars's land ?

Yes there is an agreement - wonder what has been done. You can have an idea if we see if the last ffew photo's were in a "clean room style" with masks and gloves etc.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Sep 2014 20:49

PRajaram wrote:
shiv wrote:

Volatile spelt as "volittle" as the Americans mispronounce it.
Not mispronounce but pronounce it differently.

That is a politically correct way of describing mispronunciation.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Sep 2014 21:07

SaiK wrote:shiv ji, that would be khaan ishtyle of pronouncing intentionally started to deviate from cockney ishtyle of speaking. general habit onlee: vowels and syllables, where if only one syllable in a word say the vowels as long vowel, two syllable, two vowels, then make the first one long vowel, and the second one short. any thing more is complex, and normally the last syllable with vowel becomes short vowel. but, the pattern may not be exactly true./OT.

You know SaiK - what i find interesting is that when someone passes a comment about massa, Indian massans like to give a little lecture or correction about massaland and how they do it there. The assumption seems to be "This desi does not know about massa. Let me tell him." You have done that, as has someone else. It has happened to me time and again - with three generations of Indian massans over 40 years teaching me about the ways of wonderland in response to an observation I make about massaland or massans. Sorry - but my post was deliberate and not from innocence about massans and their ways.

In this case it is particularly funny because some moron in the video has heard "volatile" pronounced as "volittle" and has spelt it as volittle which I find funny enough to comment. In fact the woman says "voliddle" but Americans automatically transcribe that as volittle. An Indian (Mallu/Tamilian) may say "wozha-tayil" or a Bong "Bholataail" and if some desi had spelt the word as wolatayil or bolatail in a video how many of us would have given an explanation about how Indians like to speak such as you have done about Americans? When the Americans do it, it calls for an explanation, so the ignorant can be educated.

Massa does not need the protection and explanations in the face of criticism. I wish people would stop doing that. What we as Indians should do is to proudly go ahead and massacre what we want and then say that the other guy is wrong. That is confidence in oneself. America seems to give that confidence to people - so they then go about explaining or defending the American way. Indians are taught in India to be apologetic and embarrassed about their ways.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 27 Sep 2014 21:19

those who can understand malloo on jootube

wRmSL5awY3o

very clear explanation on the MOM's return of investments @12:00.
- autonomy feature (self configurable/autonomous system for decision control) inside mom can be reused for all types of future satellite. [someone can give out more info on this] . this feature can be used for comm, remote sensing and navigational satellites for earth bound reuse. [remote sensing: automatically decide where to focus /sensing].
- sciences (edu) and job benefits - it gives great benefit to job profiles
- increase market profile for ISRO

talks about argument of peigee precision calculations
- reach at 270*/why the 4 staged PSLV was chosen
- answers M Nair's questions as well on sci objectives

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 27 Sep 2014 21:27

Here corrected sir.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 27 Sep 2014 22:06

SaraLax wrote:
prasannasimha wrote: During a controlled crash they can study the mars atmospheric entry conditions etc during the crash.Also if they coordinate with NASA they could probably study the crash plume when the crash occurs and the data can be analyzed.
I am not sure we can have the MoM crash into Martian land unless it has been completely sterilized prior to its liftoff from earth. I believe - this is due to the requirement that 'earth specific' organisms & tiny microbes not get transferred into Mars amd 'pollute' them. So the question then is - Is MoM sterilized for enabling it to crash into Mars's land ?

Interestingly NASA's curiosity, due to a slip up, did not follow all these steps

Yes, All NASA/ISRO spacecraft sent to other planets must undergo meticulous procedures to make sure they don't carry biological contamination from Earth to their destinations.

However, a step in these planetary protection measures wasn't adhered to for NASA's Mars Science Laboratory rover Curiosity.

The incident has become a lessons-learned example of mis-communication in assuring that planetary protection procedures are strictly adhered to.

(The issue involves a set of drill bits carried by the Curiosity rover, the equipment failed to go through a final ultra-cleanliness step) ..

So as far as Mars is concerned ... it may be too late

(Some say , such efforts are probably in vain any way since Earth life has most likely already been transferred to Mars. --Meteorite impacts have had 3.8 billion years to spread Earth life forms to... Earth spacecraft have visited Mars without undergoing the sterilization procedures now in place... who knows sdre life-forms are already there:)

MOM has gone through those procedures but I think it is too late to protect Mars from sdre terrestrial life

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 27 Sep 2014 22:22

prasannasimha wrote:Incidentally was looking up at the first icture and comparing it collated images available and what looks like shutter delay are actually "plumose streaks" and the so called "raw " image is actually picture of an active dust storm on Mars as mentioned by someone else.The so called streaks coming from minor craters that look like "camera shake" in the picture are actually been photgraphed and not an artifact.

I talked about the dust storm on Mars, which are not that uncommon on Mars. Most take place when Mars is closest to the Sun (around April 2014).

First probe to Mars (Mariner 9) encountered a big one and no one knew why the first photos were all but blur. (No one knew about dust storms then, and it took a long time before people realized that the cameras were okay but the craft arrived at Mars in a middle of a big dust storm.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 27 Sep 2014 22:37

rsingh wrote:Any possibility that MOM be throwen back to earth after six month. It can be slow very slow........to captured by ISROs Antrixyan. Lets play ping pong.

Sorry if already answered. This will be like ejecting MOM from Mars orbit and sending it to Earth. The delta-V (and fuel requirements) will be similar to MOI. IOW not likely unless one can deliver half a ton of fuel and more)

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 27 Sep 2014 23:29

how difficult to convert CO2 to O2 without plants? methane fueled rockets could be possible if we have O2 factory out on mars

Shalav · Post by **Shalav** » 27 Sep 2014 23:46

Consider this - oceans full of Cyanobacteria took about two billion years to bring Earths oxygen level to about 8% - enough to allow for life to get started properly in the "Cambrian Explosion".

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 28 Sep 2014 00:15

AmberG: Now that I understand that MOM cannot be sent into deep space (not much fuel left) is another scenario possible?

Send out DAD (Doosra Antariksh Device) starting from earth. What I am proposing is to use the same slingshot effect as in MOM to keep delta-V budget low, and send it out in such a direction that it is not captured by any of the major/minor planets, their moons, any comets in the solar system, or any of the known large/small asteroids. Of course, to achieve the last one probably would be a challenge but is it the computation tractable? One cannot do much against freak collisions with small boulders. Am Iright in thinking that path calculation is a matter of putting the correct numbers (all SI units of course

) into an efficient numerical N-Body program which will spit out delta-V budget and the orbit and when, how much, and for how long to burn the fuel.

tAta (theesra Antariskh Technology Advance) - in telugu it means grand dad - is to put a dozen or so small probes in a big cone and send out beyond the solar system and then the smaller probes come out of the cone each one of which has just enough delta-V budget on board to overcome the gravitational field of all the other probes and the container cone. They can then be deployed all around and let go. How far they would go and how long they would is a function of delta-V budget and how long they operate would be a function of the power requirements of sensors and communication equipment. Some kind of nuclear power source on board each one would not be out of question since there was proof-of-concept in Cassini.

Shalav · Post by **Shalav** » 28 Sep 2014 00:27

Solar system escape velocity at Earth orbit is ±42 km/s.

You'll need big probes carrying lots of fuel. Even the Voyager and Pioneer probes had to use slingshots around Jupiter and Saturn to achieve escape velocity.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 28 Sep 2014 01:32

math guru.. we need our own project orion.. or at least begin replacing those smaller newton thrusters with nuke powered ion engines ISRO's NEXIS.

member_28332 · Post by **member_28332** » 28 Sep 2014 01:44

shiv wrote:
PRajaram wrote:
Not mispronounce but pronounce it differently.
That is a politically correct way of describing mispronunciation.

After battling people in US for 20 years when they say that our pronunciation of "schedule" is "incorrect", I try not to make the same mistake as them. Worse is when THEY try to teach US how to pronounce "Himalayas" .. ha ha.

member_28332 · Post by **member_28332** » 28 Sep 2014 01:51

Apologies if this has already been asked and answered. But, why is the photograph by MOM so blurry? Is it because it has not yet been calibrated once on station? Or, has the photograph not gone through its required processing yet?

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 28 Sep 2014 01:59

Shalav Thanks. That means at least for now India is limited to exploring Moon, Mars, Venus, Mercury, and possibly Sun. Are Jupiter and Saturn within the reach of current generation Indian launch vehicles? IN that case, IM very HO, it is better to keep on perfecting satellite launch technology so that we can get remote sensing data for geological exploration for oil, minerals and water, data for weather modeling and prediction, agriculture and forestry, communication technology, and GPS. As I see it, those kinds of projects will give us more bang for the buck. While they are not as sexy as neelAmbara (blue sky) projects, they too are technically challenging and keep a large number of Indian scientists engaged in satisfying work.