International Naval News & Discussion

[Singha]

it seems the replacement to the Ohio class sub will carry only 16 SLBM. down from 24. it will reuse lots of kit from the virginia ofcourse.

12-16 seems to be the new stable zone for SSBN - the chinese, british and french reached it from below. US & Russia(Borei class) is coming down from the top.

thats where we need to target with the follow on of the Arihant class.

[pankajs]

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/a ... or/381195/

What It Felt Like to Test the First Submarine Nuclear Reactor

[pankajs]

Wall Street Journal ‏@WSJ 35m35 minutes ago

China is expected to launch submarines carrying fully armed nuclear missiles this year. http://on.wsj.com/1D88SEx

[Philip]

Is this correct

the Haeseong-3 missile, a supersonic, stealth precision-guided ship-to-surface missile with a range of 1,500 km

?If so then the SoKos have the world's most lethal anti-ship supersonic cruise missile given its range that can be launched from a U-214.

http://thediplomat.com/2014/07/submarin ... east-asia/

Submarine Modernization in East Asia
Countries around the region are upgrading their submarine fleets.

By Michael Raska
July 14, 2014

On July 3, South Korea launched its fifth Type-214 submarine, ROKS Yun Bong-gil, a diesel-electric air-independent propulsion (AIP) submarine equipped with the Haeseong-3 missile, a supersonic, stealth precision-guided ship-to-surface missile with a range of 1,500 km. The launch signifies an important aspect of the regional “arms competition” in East Asia – the gradual introduction of new classes of conventionally powered diesel-electric submarines (SSKs), which are increasingly becoming “platforms of choice” – as force-multipliers in diverse missions as well as against superior forces.

Notwithstanding East Asia’s economic growth rates and deepening integration into the global economy, the region’s strategic realities reflect contending trajectories. As China expands its national interests in the broader context of “new historic missions,” it seeks to regain a great power status and reassert its geopolitical role in the region. As a result of China’s accelerating military modernization, regional powers are responding by revamping their force modernization priorities, alliances, and overall strategic choices.

The economic, political and military rise of China, embedded in three decades of relentless economic growth, has propelled progressive modernization of the Chinese military with major improvements in virtually every capability domain.

China’s Naval Modernization and Submarine Expansion

Notwithstanding weaknesses and limitations in capabilities integration, China’s PLA Navy (PLAN) is gradually transforming into a regional [blue water] defensive- and offensive-type navy with extended so-called anti-access/area-denial (A2/AD) capabilities, limited expeditionary capabilities, and corresponding defensive and offensive air power. China calls its comprehensive A2/AD strategy a “counter-intervention,” which is interpreted as denying the U.S. and its allies the freedom of action in China’s “near seas” by restricting their deployments into theatre (anti‑access) and denying them freedom of movement there (area denial).

An important aspect of China’s multilayered strategy is the gradual introduction of new classes of submarines: nuclear and conventional. China is currently operating as many as 45 submarines structured in six different classes: two classes of indigenously designed diesel submarines, including the Song class (Type 039) and the Yuan-class (Type 041), and four nuclear classes that include the Shang-class (Type 093), Jin-class (Type 094) nuclear powered ballistic missile submarines (SSBN), and the follow-on Type 095 nuclear-powered attack submarine (SSN) and Tang-class (Type 096) SSBN.

Since 2004, China is believed to have launched 12 Type 041 Yuan-class conventional submarines, which have been progressively modified to carry more advanced high-frequency sonar, upgraded weapons systems, noise reduction, and air independent propulsion (AIP) technologies. The PLA Navy may procure up to 20 additional Yuan-class submarines based on technologies imported from Russian boats. Since the mid-1990s, China has procured as many as 12 Kilo-class submarines from Russia, and is reportedly negotiating the purchase of at least four fourth-generation Amur (Lada)-class or possibly a fifth-generation Kalina-class, both featuring advanced AIP systems.

Regional Responses

In Northeast Asia, Japan and South Korea are prioritizing the procurement of new types of submarines. South Korea’s latest launch of its fifth Type-214 submarine in July, ROKS Yun Bong-gil, comes less than a year after the introduction of the 1,800 ton Son Won-ill class in September 2013, featuring AIP and advanced combat management systems. South Korea now operates 14 submarines: nine Type 209 Chang Bogo and five Son Won-ill class submarines. Meanwhile, in October 2013, the Japan Marine Self Defense Force (MSDF) launched its newest submarine, the Kokuryu – the sixth of ten planned Soryu class boats first commissioned in 2009. With its range, endurance, sensors, weapons load, and other systems, including the Stirling AIP propulsion system and Harpoon anti-ship missiles, the Soryu class is regarded as the most advanced in Japan’s conventional submarine fleet of 16 submarines.

In Southeast Asia, the relatively high acquisition costs and maintenance requirements have traditionally precluded a quantitative diffusion of submarines. However, the recent introduction of more capable coastal diesel-powered submarines provides unprecedented capabilities. Most recently, Vietnam received two of six Kilo-class (Project 636) diesel-electric submarines from Russia in 2013-2014, designed for diverse reconnaissance and patrol, anti-submarine, and anti-ship missions.

Indonesia, Malaysia and Singapore are also planning to expand or upgrade their submarine fleets. From 2007-09, Malaysia took formal delivery of two French-built Scorpene-class submarines, equipped with underwater-launched Exocet anti-ship missiles. Both submarines are based at the Kota Kinabalu Naval Base in Sabah, East Malaysia, indicating their primary mission is to protect Malaysia’s sovereignty in part of the South China Sea. Meanwhile, Indonesia has ambitious plans to expand its submarine fleet to at least six, and ideally to 12 by 2024, a key element in the “Minimum Essential Force” (MEF) and declared goal of developing a “green-water” navy. In 2012, the Indonesian Navy (TNI-AL) announced a $1.1 billion contract for three Type-209/1400 diesel-electric submarines, constructed by South Korea’s Daewoo Shipbuilding and Marine Engineering.

In November 2013, Singapore announced a contract with German shipbuilder ThyssenKrupp to acquire two advanced Type-218SG submarines that will augment existing Archer-class boats and replace ageing ex-Swedish Challenger-class by 2020. Type-218SG, designed for littoral, shallow sea operations, is a customized design that will integrate features from Type 214 and possibly Type-216 ‘concept submarine’ fitted with fuel-cell AIP system.

Strategic Ramifications

Over the past decade, the operational utility of submarines in East Asia has widened: from anti-submarine warfare to force protection such as close submarine escort missions, intelligence surveillance, and reconnaissance (ISR), support of Special Forces, and other complementary deterrence and defensive tasks supporting territorial defense. At the same time, the introduction of submarine-launched anti-ship and land-attack cruise missiles, anti-submarine sensors and weapons, as well as air independent propulsion systems have increased their stealth capacity to remain undetected shortened their target-identification-and-attack cycle, and ultimately, improved their flexibility, mobility, endurance, reach, and lethality.

For smaller, defensively oriented navies in East and Southeast Asia, these attributes enable “sea-denial” capabilities aimed at preventing an opponent from using the sea, rather than providing a degree of sea control to use the sea for own power projection. Submarines will therefore become an increasingly valuable strategic asset in the region, particularly with installed AIP systems. The key difference, however, will be in the experience, training, and skill set of their operators.

Michael Raska is a Research Fellow at the Institute of Defence and Strategic Studies, a constituent unit of the S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies (RSIS), Nanyang Technological University in Singapore.

[Philip]

More on SoKo's conventional sub building capabilities which appear to be perhaps the best in Asia rivaling anything that the Japanese can do.

http://thediplomat.com/2014/07/south-ko ... submarine/

South Korea Launches Fifth 1,800-Ton Submarine
By Zachary Keck
July 04, 2014

South Korea’s Navy launched the fifth of its 1,800-ton class submarines on Thursday.

The Yun Bong-gil, the fifth of South Korea’s KSS 2-class (Type 214) diesel-electric air-independent propulsion (AIP) submarines, was launched July 3 at a shipyard of Hyundai Heavy Industries, the company that produced the submarine. The ceremony was presided over by Adm. Hwang Ki-chul, the chief of Naval Operations at the South Korean Navy.

The vessel is named after Yun Bong-gil, a famous anti-Japanese Korean fighter from the colonial era. South Korea’s last two submarines, the Kim Jwa-jin and the Ahn Jung-geun, were also named after independence fighters.

The new Type 214 submarine is equipped with the Haeseong-3 missile, a supersonic, stealth precision-guided ship-to-surface missile with a range of 1,500 km. “The cruise missiles with a maximum range of 1,500 kilometers are capable of carrying out precision strikes against enemies’ key facilities,” a Navy official said, Yonhap News Agency reported. This capability will likely be used to target key missile launch facilities in North Korea as part of South Korea’s active deterrence strategy. The new submarine can also lay mines for anti-submarine warfare missions.

The AIP system on the submarine allows for the vessel to cruise underwater for around two weeks at a time. It also has a maximum underwater speed of around 20 knots, which allows it to travel from South Korea to Hawaii and back without having to refuel.

As The Diplomat has previously noted, South Korea is in the process of building a formidable underwater fleet. This includes nine Chang Bogo-class diesel-electric attack vessels, which are the export versions of the German Type 209 class submarines. In 2000, it ordered three Son Won-Il class Type 214 submarines. Commissioned between 2007 and 2009, the Type 214 subs reportedly have an underwater time that is 10 times greater than the Type 209 submarines.

In 2009, South Korea ordered six more Type 214 submarines. The first of these, the Kim Jwa-jin, was launched last year at a ceremony presided over by South Korean Park Geun-hye. Xinhua News Agency has reported that the second batch of Type 214 submarines “operate various missions such as anti-ship, anti-air and anti-submarine warfare as well as ship-to-land precision strikes with cruise missiles.” The same source says that their combat system can engage up to 300 targets simultaneously.

Starting in 2018, South Korea will begin producing three domestically-designed 3,000-ton submarines. Some of the new submarines will operate from the naval base on Jeju Island that South Korea is currently constructing.

The submarine launched this week will be delivered to the South Korean navy sometime in 2015.

[Singha]

i am one of many in BR who have been inside the USS nautilus (albeit the nuclear power compartment is sealed).
it a free outing in the USN museum in mystic, CT with audio guide inside the sub.
I remember the small museum had a cutaway model of the Mk48 ADCAP torpedo also.
there is a rundown place in MA named fall river with a naval museum consisting of WW2 battleships, destroyers, submarines, tarantul class FACs....

[Philip]

Finland ridicules Sweden's farcial sub hunt which appeared to be a PR stunt for more funds for defence .

http://yle.fi/uutiset/defence_minister_ ... ce/7552605

Defence Minister Haglund: Finland wouldn’t organise a submarine hunt "farce"

Finland’s Defence Minister Carl Haglund has hit the headlines in Sweden after saying the Swedish military’s recent search for "foreign underwater activity" off Stockholm was a "farce". He said Finland would strive to avoid a similar situation.

Carl Haglund has been in the news in Sweden after appearing to criticise Sweden's handling of a recent search for foreign submersibles. Image: Yle

Defence Minister Carl Haglund appears to have criticised Sweden’s handling of suspected underwater activity by a foreign power. In an interview with Yle’s Swedish language service, Haglund said his approach would differ markedly to that taken by the Swedish authorities during a recent hunt for a submersible or submarine in the Stockholm archipelago.

“If sightings cannot be confirmed, we won’t organize a farce,” said Haglund. “That is not the way to improve the credibility of our defence, and we wouldn’t want to demonstrate to anyone who might be in our waters what kind of capabilities we have to observe what happens on the coastline. There could therefore be good reasons to avoid any publicity.”

His comments have caused a stir in Sweden, where the week-long hunt made global headlines. Defence Minister Peter Hultqvist told Svenska Dagbladet that he did not want to comment on Haglund’s statements, but that Sweden had in his opinion performed a serious search operation to ensure their territorial integrity.

The Swedish military called off the search for the underwater vessel on Friday.

Japan's naval ambitions to counter China.

http://www.defensenews.com/article/2014 ... nav%7Chead

Japan Builds Response to Chinese Area-Denial Strategy
Oct. 26, 2014 - 04:17PM | By PAUL KALLENDER-UMEZU |

The first of two planned Izumo-class ships was launched in 2013 during a ceremony in Yokohama. It will be able to carry 15 helicopters. (Toshifumi Kitamura / AFP)Filed Under

TOKYO — Japan’s response to Chinese anti-access/area-denial threats rest on three planks: increasingly large helicopter carriers, next-generation 3,300-ton Soryu-class submarines and new Aegis destroyers.

This strategy is further enhanced by plans to deploy 20 Kawasaki P-1 maritime patrol aircraft as replacements for the P-3C, and upgraded SH-60K sub-hunting helicopters.

When integrated, this will create a much more capable fleet able to expand its role beyond being a simple “shield” to the US Navy’s “spear,” analysts said.

Data from AMI International shows that the Izumo-class helicopter destroyers (22DDH) and the Soryu-class submarines are the leading programs for the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force (JMSDF), both in budget and importance to Japan’s maritime security, according to Bob Nugent, affiliate consultant at AMI.

Japan unveiled the first of the two planned Izumo-class ships on Aug. 6, 2013 — the largest Japanese warship since World War II — which will be able to carry 15 helicopters. In 2009 and 2011, the Navy also commissioned two new third-generation Hyuga-class helicopter destroyers, each capable of deploying 11 helicopters.

Nugent said that at almost 20,000 tons full-load displacement, compared to the Hyuga class at 13,950 tons, the 22DDH are not fully aircraft carriers because they cannot launch, recover and sustain fixed-wing aircraft, meaning they are still helicopter-carrying “destroyers.” Still, they comprise a key step in the JMSDF’s evolution into a force with significant seagoing aviation platforms and capability.

“The Izumo class are really fleet flagships with advanced command and control, as well as advanced ASW [anti-submarine warfare] and anti-mine warfare capabilities,” he said.

The Soryu-class submarines made headlines in June when Australia and Japan agreed to jointly develop a range of submarine technologies, with a view to possibly purchasing the highly advanced, stealthy submarines. In September, the JMSDF announced it would further improve the submarine’s capabilities with new battery technologies.

The Navy operates five of the attack subs and 11 older Oyashio-class vessels. It plans a total fleet of 22 submarines.

“The Soryus are among the largest and most successful conventionally powered submarines being built and operated in the world today. And with the latest reporting that Japan is looking at shifting out of fuel cell AIP [air independent propulsion] for the secondary propulsion, the Soryu class is also significant as a global bellwether on technology and design of future conventional submarines,” Nugent said.

“It’s probably true that JMSDF is transitioning to Lithium ion batteries, but perhaps not until a new class of submarines,” said Paul Giarra, president of Global Strategies & Transformation, a professional services consultancy. “It’s also probable that there won’t be a removal of the AIP package, it seems that doing so would be a step backwards. A key issue to watch will be whether new Li-ion batteries that are safe will make their way into naval applications.”

The third major JMSDF program, its Aegis-equipped cruisers, is moving to the center of Japan-US defense procurement cooperation, especially now that Japan has committed to two new Atago-class Aegis destroyers, with the goal of expanding Japan’s Aegis fleet to eight ships by the end of fiscal 2020.

“They are also important signals to the region of each country’s commitment to operating the best possible sea-based capability for air and missile defense,” Nugent said.

The new mix of capabilities goes beyond platforms and capabilities, with many of the critical changes involving the integration of systems and strengthening of joint functions, said Alessio Patalano, a naval expert at the Department of War Studies, King’s College London. Of the three programs, Patalano said the next-generation Soryu-class subs will probably make the biggest contribution to Japan’s deterrence posture.

“The geographic characteristics of the main maritime theaters of operations favor submarine warfare. One of the key questions for the Japanese is how to increase the operational range and endurance of their boats so that they can operate longer at sea, and — if necessary — further from Japanese shores,” Patalano said.

“I would say the Soryus are the most important from a strictly national security point of view. ... I don’t see how you have a plausible ASW capability without submarines,” said Corey Wallace, a Japan security policy expert at New Zealand’s University of Auckland.

Wallace argued that while it is true that more capital outlay has gone toward purchasing new destroyers while submarines have undergone life extensions, this builds on a backbone of 30-plus years of JMSDF investment in submarines and then learning how to use them for ASW, he said.

“In terms of widening the range of the Soryu, I think the first priority is to allow them to stay at sea and submerged longer, rather than necessarily actually going great distances away from the Japanese home islands in a straight line. Still, the ability to project power into the South China Sea in the future is something that the MSDF probably imagines will contribute to regional deterrence overall,” Wallace said.

The increasing capabilities of the carrier force and ballistic missile defense (BMD) destroyers pose additional questions: Is Japan moving toward creating infrastructure for its first aircraft carrier battle group, and why does the JMSDF need two more missile cruisers?

The Izumo and Hyuga classes are already becoming increasingly important as command-and-control platforms around which the fleet is organized, and also for responses to natural disasters that will bolster the JMSDF’s visibility — but that is part of the problem.

The JMSDF has focused on its submarine buildup specifically because they are more out of sight and less expensive than large surface warships. Before considering the risk of accelerating China’s military buildup and possibly moving the region to a full-blown arms race, developing a carrier fleet would also require Japan to boost its defense spending beyond the psychological barrier of 1 percent of GDP. ■

[Philip]

French naval plans to maintain its balanced blue-water capability and strategic deterrent. It is most interesting to note that after the US,France has the largest EEZ to protect in all the world's oceans. France has pursued an independent defence identity,thanks to Gen.De Gaulle,who wanted France to be independent of the US and UK post WW2. In many aspects,Indian defence amd foreign policy has a lot in common with the French.

http://www.defensenews.com/article/2014 ... 310260022/

French Navy Plans To Dominate Above, On and Below the Seas
Oct. 26, 2014 - 04:21PM | By PIERRE TRAN |

Future French naval plans include possible redesigns on three FREMM ships. (French Navy)Filed Under

PARIS — Despite a fiscal downturn, France is seeking to continue sailing a blue water Navy able to project maritime power on the waves, silently below and by striking from the air.

Budget constraints have led the French Navy to “make choices,” but by 2025, the service will have all the capabilities needed to complete a full range of missions, from defense to security, from high to low intensity, but in a “slightly smaller format,” said Navy spokesman Capt. Didier Piaton.

After the US, France has the second-largest exclusive economic zone, with some 11 million kilometers of seas to police in the Atlantic, Indian and Pacific oceans, and in the Mediterranean Sea.

The Navy will lose 664 posts in 2015 out of a total 36,000 sailors and after closing down some 500 positions this year. That planned job loss is part of the total 7,500 job cuts next year in the armed forces, Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian said.

The naval job cuts stem from the decommissioning of five vessels, the Siroco transport ship, Meuse oil tanker and three patrol vessels, and the closing of the small Adour base on the Atlantic coast and an office in Strasbourg, eastern France.

The service has focused its activities in two large bases, Brest in the north and Toulon in the south of France. The most important naval programs include:

■The FREMM multimission warship program. The Navy plans to decide in 2016 on a possible redesign for ships nine, 10 and 11, due for delivery after 2020, two industry executives said.

The three new vessels could be “an intermediate size,” between the 6,000-ton FREMM and a 2,500-ton corvette, the executives said. The ships could be similar to the Lafayette frigate, being lighter and less heavily armed than the FREMM.

The planned seventh and eighth FREMM ships will be air defense versions, for delivery between 2020 and 2022.

Warship builder DCNS is due to deliver the first six anti-submarine warfare (ASW) vessels by 2019, having delivered the first-of-class Aquitaine in 2012.

A second ship, Normandie, will be the first to be armed with a naval version of the MBDA cruise missile. The vessel is due for delivery by the end of this year, with the long-range weapon fitted in 2015, providing a “new strategic capability,” Piaton said.

First assessments of the ASW FREMM and a new Caiman helicopter, the maritime version of the NH90, are “very promising,” he said. A light MU90 torpedo and sonar buoys are in the last stages of military trials and will add to the initial ASW capability.

A full ASW suite for the NH90 could be operational this year, but much depends on whether industry respects the commitments on delivering the equipment, Piaton said.

The FREMM was designed with a concept of “optimized crewing,” based on a highly automated ship. This will require a change in work practice, organization and maintenance.

The Navy is due to receive 11 FREMMs, with nine in the ASW and two in air defense version.

■Undersea power. The planned acquisition of six Barracuda nuclear-powered hunter-killer submarines will replace the Rubis-class attack subs, which would be 35 years old when retired.

The Barracudas will be able to carry cruise missiles and special operations forces. The subs will also have advanced acoustic stealth, sharing the technology developed for the Triomphant class of ballistic missile boats, he said.

Studies have begun for a future generation of SSBN ballistic missile submarines and building is expected to start in the middle of the next decade. The design is far from complete, but it is clear the size and weight will be close to the second-generation Triomphant-class submarines, to limit program cost.

The four Triomphant boats are the submarine element of the ocean-going nuclear deterrent, while the Charles de Gaulle carrier carries the Dassault Rafale fighter jet, the airborne platform.

The subs are armed with the M51 ballistic missile, and from 2015 the M51.2 version is due to enter service, delivering greater range. A test fire of the M51 weapon from the Vigilant submarine failed in May last year, with the missile destroyed in flight.

■Safeguarding sovereignty. The Navy is coming to the end of a three-year lease for the Adroit, a prototype offshore patrol vessel (OPV) funded and built by DCNS. The company hopes talks will lead to a one-year extension, a DCNS spokesman has said.

The Adroit is helping the service draft specifications for a future program for multimission OPVs, project name Batsimar. The vessels are seen as key for maintaining sovereignty over distant territories, such as the exclusive economic zone off French Guiana that sits on offshore oil.

The multimission OPVs are expected to enter service around 2024, seven years later than planned. The boats will replace a fleet of some 15 vessels of the P400, Aviso 69 and fisheries protection boats.

Officials at the Direction Générale de l’Armament (DGA) are consulting with industry to acquire eight ocean supply vessels, referred to as bâtiments de soutien et d’assistance hauturiers (BSAH), a spokesman for the procurement office said. The DGA opened talks this year after a plan to lease the vessels under a public-private partnership failed.

Next year, DGA hopes to order the first two BSAH ships for delivery in 2017.

DCNS and civil shipbuilder Piriou said in January they had won a contract for three multimission, ocean-going vessels with an option for a fourth.

■Rotary power. Naval helicopters will be armed with a new anti-ship missile, known as anti-navire leger, a program in cooperation with the UK under the Lancaster House bilateral treaty. The British version is the future anti-surface guided weapon (heavy).

The missile will allow helicopter pilots to hit small, fast and highly maneuverable boats in a complex coastal environment or in dense shipping traffic. The British and French navies show strong similarity in format, missions, nuclear capability and joint projects.

■Joint efforts. British and French navies are also engaged in binational programs such as the future anti-mine system. The system would be part of the cooperative Maritime Mine Counter Measure program, as announced at the Jan. 31 Anglo-French summit.

A defense agreement reached at the summit was “a £10 million [US $16 million] contract for the development of underwater vehicles capable of finding and neutralizing seabed mines,” the British government said.

■Power projection. And finally, the defense and security white paper set three Mistral projection and command ships to meet the operational contract. ■

[govardhanks]

Annotation: Alfred Thayer Mahan was influential in helping to build-up naval defenses before World War I. He emphasized the importance of sea power and was inspirational in establishing navies around the world. Several ships, including the USS Mahan, were named in his honor.

Mahan, a naval strategist and the author of The Influence of Sea Power Upon History, argued that national prosperity and power depended on control of the world's sea-lanes. "Whoever rules the waves rules the world," Mahan wrote. To become a major naval power, the United States began to replace its wooden sailing ships with steel vessels powered by coal or oil in 1883. But control of the seas would also require the acquisition of naval bases and coaling stations. Germany's Kaiser Wilhelm had copies of Mahan's books placed on every ship in the German High Seas Fleet and the Japanese government put translations in its imperial bureaus.

http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/disp_t ... &psid=4044

[SaiK]

http://www.meretmarine.com/fr/content/c ... -de-guerre

nice design but i was visualizing couple of quad-copter sitting on it rather the age old looking helos

[Philip]

http://news.usni.org/2014/10/28/u-s-nav ... 234c8f82d4

U.S. Navy Impressed with New Russian Attack Boat

By: Dave Majumdar
Published: October 28,

One of the U.S. Navy’s top submarine officers was so impressed with Russia’s new Project 885 nuclear attack boats that he had a model of K-329 Severodvinsk built for his office.

Rear Adm. Dave Johnson, Naval Sea Systems Command’s (NAVSEA) program executive officer (PEO) submarines said he had the model of Severodvinsk placed outside his office in a common area so that he could look at it every day on his way to his office.

“We’ll be facing tough potential opponents. One only has to look at the Severodvinsk, Russia’s version of a [nuclear guided missile submarine] (SSGN). I am so impressed with this ship that I had Carderock build a model from unclassified data.” Johnson said last week during the Naval Submarine League’s symposium in Falls Church, Va.
“The rest of the world’s undersea capability never stands still.”

The Russian attack boat had been in construction since 1993 and only entered sea trials late in 2011. The boat finally became operational earlier this year. A cash-strapped Russian Federation had to repeatedly delay completion of the submarine in the chaos that followed the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Severodvinsk is the most capable Russian attack submarine ever built and leverages many of the technologies the Soviet Union invested in during the 1970s and 1980s.

Model of Russian submarine Severodvinsk built for NAVSEA. US Naval Institute Photo

The 13,800-ton, 390-foot long, submarine is highly automated vessel with a crew of only 32 officers and 58 enlisted submariners.
It is far quieter than previous Russian submarines and has a maximum “silent” speed of about 20 knots.


The U.S. Naval Institute’s Combat Fleets of the World said some reports suggest the vessel might have a maximum speed of between 35 and 40 knots. However, most Russian reports state a maximum speed of 35 knots. Like most new nuclear submarine designs, Severodvinsk’s reactor is designed to last for the life of the boat.

According the Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI), while the new Russian submarine is quieter than the Improved Los Angeles-class boats, the new vessel is not quite as silent as the Seawolf or Virginia-class. However, the Soviets were always only lagging slightly behind U.S. in quieting technology according to Navy sources. The Russians are already building improved versions of the Yasen design.

Unlike most Soviet submarine designs, the Yasen-class boats do not make use of a double-hull—instead it has hybrid design with a lighter structure over the vessel’s pressure hull according to Russia media reports.

Another unique feature for a Russian vessel is that it incorporates a spherical bow sonar called the Irtysh-Amfora for the first time. As a result, Severodvinsk has its torpedo tubes located at about mid-ship like U.S. submarines. The vessel has eight torpedo tubes, four of which are 650mm tubes while the rest are 533mm tubes. Combat Fleets of the World estimates that the Yasen-class might carry as many as 30 torpedoes.

Infographic of Project 885 submarine via RIA Novosti

Like most Russian attack submarines, the vessel’s primary weapons are in the form of heavy anti-ship missiles. The boat has 24 missile tubes which can carry the supersonic NPO Mashinostroyeniya P-800 Oniks anti-ship missile which can hit targets roughly 200 nautical miles away. Severodvinsk can also carry Novator RK-55 Granat nuclear-capable 1,600 nautical mile-range subsonic land attack cruise missiles. Additionally, the Yasen-class boats can also launch the 3M14 Kalibr and 3M54 Biryuza land attack and anti-ship missiles, which have a roughly 300-mile range, though its torpedo tubes.

It also carries 91R anti-submarine missiles and has the capability to lay mines along with its normal complement of torpedoes.

Some Russian sources such as Russia Beyond the Headlines suggest that Severodvinsk is equipped with active anti-torpedo defenses and some sort of anti-air capability. The later would not be unprecedented, the Project 941 Akula—known better as the Typhoon-class ballistic missile submarine—was equipped with a 9K38 Igla surface-to-air missile system for ship self-defense.

Russia is expected to build eight Yasen-class boats. Since Severodvinsk took almost two decades to finish, the subsequent boats have many technological refinements to improve on the original Project 885 design. The next two Yasen-class boats are already under construction at the Sevmash shipyards in Severodvinsk, Russia. Kazan was laid down in July of 2009 while Novosibirsk was laid down July of 2013.

[Philip]

France blinks? Russia to get its first Mistral?

http://rt.com/news/200579-france-russia ... -delivery/
France to hand over first Mistral helicopter carrier on Nov 14 – Russia
Published time: October 29, 2014

France may hand over the first of two Mistral helicopter carriers to Russia on November 14, Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said. He announced that Moscow had received an invitation to take delivery at France’s Saint-Nazaire shipyards.

“Rosoboronexport [Russia’s state owned arms exporter] has received an invitation to arrive in Saint-Nazaire on November 14, where 360 Russian sailors and 60 specialist trainers are already,” Rogozin said.

On that day, Vladivostok – the first of two Mistral-class helicopter carrier ships – should be handed over to Russia. The Deputy PM also assumed the second carrier, the Sevastopol, would also be in dock.

“We act from the fact that France must protect its own reputation as a reliable partner, including on issues of military cooperation," he said. France has always stressed that for them this would be “the litmus test of their national pride and sovereignty,” the Deputy PM added.

On Tuesday, French Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian said that France will decide on delivery of the Mistral-type helicopter carriers to Russia only in November.

“The French president stated earlier that if the political situation does not improve, he will not permit delivery of the helicopter carriers,” Le Drian said. “The president will make a decision by November.”

Launching the stern section of a Mistral-class amphibious assault ship at the Baltic Shipyard in St. Petersburg. The ship will be christened the Sevastopol. (RIA Novosti/Alexei Danichev

Rogozin emphasized that so far everything is proceeding according to plan.
French shipbuilders in the Saint Nazaire shipyard have said, according to RIA Novosti, that the helicopter carriers are ready for delivery.
There has been no official statement from the French authorities yet.

Russia and France signed a €1.12 billion ($1.6 billion) contract for building two Mistral-type ships in June 2011.
Under the deal, Russia was supposed to receive the first of the two warships, the Vladivostok, in October this year.

However, delivery has been postponed due to the conflict in Ukraine, the impetus behind the international community’s pressure on France to cancel the contract.

Western allies have been pushing Paris for months, saying that France has to make sacrifices to meet its commitment to oppose Moscow through sanctions over the crisis in Ukraine.

The second Mistral-class helicopter carrier, the Sevastopol, is expected to be handed over to Russia next year.

The Mistral-type helicopter carriers can accommodate up to 30 light helicopters in its hangar and on deck, although Russia plans to arm the Vladivostok and the Sevastopol with 16 heavy aircraft. The ship can also carry up to 450 combat troops (or 900 for short missions) in addition to the crew, complete with amphibious transports, armor and a command center.

[Philip]

No one has the gust to sell Taiwan subs,so why doesn't India help the Taiwanese? years ago,without our say-so,the Germans allegedly gave the S.Africans the very same drgs. for our U-209/1500 boats.The design of those boats ,with Indian specs are our IP.Germany has improved upon the U-209 class with 212s,214s,Israeli Dolfins,and now 218s .Therefore,the sub tech with us could be quietly passed on to Taiwan as they plan to construct their own boats. Taiwan is floating on a mountain of hard cash and what we
get in return for our cooperation/collaboration could be used to offset costs of the 75-I programme.Anyone in the MOD/IN listening?

No one has the guts to sell submarines to Taiwan’ as China pressures Pentagon
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... en/?page=2

By Bill Gertz - The Washington Times - Wednesday, October 29, 2014

The Obama administration is backing away from a 2001 commitment to help Taiwan acquire submarines to defend the island from Chinese attack.

The Pentagon, in particular, is said to oppose the 13-year-old plan to help Taipei buy or build eight diesel electric subs over concerns of disrupting its high-priority military exchange program with China.

The Chinese military cut ties to the Pentagon several times in recent years to protest U.S. arms sales to Taiwan, and agreed to resume exchanges only if the administration adopted China’s concept of “new-type” relations that, for Beijing, includes gradually ending arms sales to Taiwan.

The administration, however, is bound by the 1979 Taiwan Relations Act to provide defensive arms to Taiwan to prevent a Chinese takeover.

The U.S. military has been pressing Taiwan in recent months to do more to increase its defenses in the face of a large-scale buildup of warships, submarines, missiles and amphibious forces by China’s People’s Liberation Army.

The PLA has deployed more than 1,200 missiles within range of Taiwan that could devastate the island in a surprise attack.

One U.S. official said the administration has agreed to help Taiwan develop small, electric-powered, coastal submarines as a halfway measure, instead of larger submarines.

That option is expected to be the subject of an upcoming report by the administration-aligned think tank Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments.

Critics of the small-sub plan say the Taiwanese need larger submarines, as well as mini-subs, as a key asymmetric warfare weapon to deter the Chinese — something small submarines alone are unlikely to do.

“Like other navies in the region, Taiwan appears poised to contribute toward U.S. interests in regional security,” said Mark Stokes, a former Pentagon official who worked on China affairs. “Taiwan’s acquisition of new diesel electric submarines would enhance regional stability by providing a clear deterrent to potential [Chinese] force and interruption of sea lines of communication in the East China Sea, South China Sea and elsewhere in the region.”

Mr. Stokes said a submarine fleet offers a credible and effective deterrent to the threat posed by the PLA.

“Active U.S. support for Taiwan’s acquisition of diesel electric submarines, including midget submarines and unmanned underwater vehicles, would demonstrate credibility of American policy commitments,” said Mr. Stokes, now with the Project 2049 Institute.

Added Rick Fisher of the International Assessment and Strategy Center: “Despite its 30-year quest, no one has the guts to sell submarines to Taiwan.”

The George W. Bush administration tried but failed to get the Taiwanese sub program going, and the Obama administration appears to have abandoned the effort, Mr. Fisher said.

“Now Taiwan has taken the momentous step of starting their own program, and it would be a crushing blow if the U.S. did not support it,” he said.Continued from page 1

China is closing in on having the military capability to invade Taiwan, and subs would hold off an invasion threat, Mr. Fisher said, noting that U.S. support for submarine development will be crucial.

U.S. officials informed Taiwan last summer that it must do more to bolster its defenses, as spending cuts have diminished the ability of U.S. aircraft carrier strike groups to reach the island during a conflict with China.

Apparently frustrated, Taiwan last week announced that it would begin developing its own subs after more than a decade of delays in getting U.S. assistance.

The Bush ministration announced in 2001 that it would help Taiwan with the purchase or production of eight diesel electric submarines.

But the subs were never built, and China pressured potential foreign suppliers from providing them.

A formal congressional notification of the first phase of the submarine-building program, a $360 million program over two years, remains bottled up in the State Department over Pentagon fears that China’s military will cut relations. Any submarine program with Taiwan has been scaled back to avoid upsetting the Chinese.

“Our determination to build indigenous submarines is very firm. The navy is very actively pushing this matter,” said Maj. Gen. David Lo, a spokesman for Taiwan’s Ministry of National Defense.

“The Republic of China [Taiwan] will not engage in an arms race with China. We hope to acquire submarines to strengthen our self-defense,” he said, according to Reuters.

Asked about the submarine controversy, Pentagon spokesman Lt. Col. Jeffrey Pool said: “The U.S. has received Taiwan’s requests for diesel submarines. These requests remain under interagency review.”

News reports from Taiwan last month said four submarines weighing about 1,500 tons will be built at a cost of $833 million each. However, they will not be equipped with air-independent propulsion — a key stealth technology — because of a lack of expertise.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... z3Hd0Gbm17

[Anthony Hines]

No one has the gust to sell Taiwan subs,so why doesn't India help the Taiwanese? years ago,without our say-so,the Germans allegedly gave the S.Africans the very same drgs. for our U-209/1500 boats.The design of those boats ,with Indian specs are our IP.Germany has improved upon the U-209 class with 212s,214s,Israeli Dolfins,and now 218s .Therefore,the sub tech with us could be quietly passed on to Taiwan as they plan to construct their own boats. Taiwan is floating on a mountain of hard cash and what we
get in return for our cooperation/collaboration could be used to offset costs of the 75-I programme.Anyone in the MOD/IN listening?

No one has the guts to sell submarines to Taiwan’ as China pressures Pentagon
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... en/?page=2

This One post of yours that makes a lot of sense and I agree with.

[vishvak]

No one has the gust to sell Taiwan subs,so why doesn't India help the Taiwanese? years ago,without our say-so,the Germans allegedly gave the S.Africans the very same drgs. for our U-209/1500 boats.The design of those boats ,with Indian specs are our IP.Germany has improved upon the U-209 class with 212s,214s,Israeli Dolfins,and now 218s .Therefore,the sub tech with us could be quietly passed on to Taiwan as they plan to construct their own boats. Taiwan is floating on a mountain of hard cash and what we
get in return for our cooperation/collaboration could be used to offset costs of the 75-I programme.Anyone in the MOD/IN listening?

No one has the guts to sell submarines to Taiwan’ as China pressures Pentagon
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... en/?page=2

This One post of yours that makes a lot of sense and I agree with.

My one line message is what happened to America helping Taiwan - which is the topic here - never thought such a day would come and so is silence of people supporting America is unbecoming of the prowess that America weilds too.

The Pentagon, in particular, is said to oppose the 13-year-old plan to help Taipei buy or build eight diesel electric subs over concerns of disrupting its high-priority military exchange program with China.

The Chinese military cut ties to the Pentagon several times in recent years to protest U.S. arms sales to Taiwan, and agreed to resume exchanges only if the administration adopted China’s concept of “new-type” relations that, for Beijing, includes gradually ending arms sales to Taiwan.
..

The Bush ministration announced in 2001 that it would help Taiwan with the purchase or production of eight diesel electric submarines.

But the subs were never built, and China pressured potential foreign suppliers from providing them.

A formal congressional notification of the first phase of the submarine-building program, a $360 million program over two years, remains bottled up in the State Department over Pentagon fears that China’s military will cut relations. Any submarine program with Taiwan has been scaled back to avoid upsetting the Chinese.
..

Asked about the submarine controversy, Pentagon spokesman Lt. Col. Jeffrey Pool said: “The U.S. has received Taiwan’s requests for diesel submarines. These requests remain under interagency review.”
..

How much will USA help against China - is for all to think over; even after announcement by the Bush admin. And what is this "new-type" relationship which is one of the most absurd label ever read!

[Austin]

Bulava Test: First footage inside nuclear submarine launching missile



Russia’s nuclear sub test-fires Bulava strategic missile

[Singha]

is it normal to wear that red bag every crew is wearing? some breathing apparatus?

[Raman]

I didn't see any red bags. Are you referring to the orange life preservers? Those are just flotation devices ...

[Singha]

yes. do submariners always wear them on duty?

[Philip]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-3 ... -goal.html

China’s Clandestine Submarine Caves Extend Xi’s Naval Reach

By David Tweed Oct 31, 2014 10:13 AM GMT+0530 - Comments Email Print
In this Aug. 28, 2014 photo, fishermen look at a Chinese nuclear submarine sails past Yalong Bay in Sanya, south... Read More

Photographer: Goh Seng Chong/Bloomberg
Xi Jinping, China's president, continues to extort the miliary to get into shape, saying Sept. 22 that PLA forces... Read More

Photographer: Hoang Dinh Nam/AFP/Getty Images
This picture taken from a Vietnam Coast Guard ship on May 14, 2014 shows a China Coast Guard ship, left, chasing a... Read More
Source: Vietnam News Agency/AFP/Getty Images
This picture taken on Jan. 3, 2014 shows the Vietnamese Navy's first submarine class Kilo 636, center, named 'Hanoi'... Read More
Photographer: Punit Paranjpe/AFP/Getty Images
Indian sailors stand on the deck of a submarine during a Fleet Review in Mumbai, India, on Dec. 20, 2011. The country... Read More

Beneath the surface of the South China Sea off the tropical Chinese resort island of Hainan, an underwater tunnel guides submarines into a lair reminiscent of a James Bond spy movie.

From this pen the subs can venture in and out of the contested South China Sea hidden from the prying eyes of reconnaissance planes deployed by the U.S. Navy, which for the past half century has enjoyed almost unfettered access to the waters, say military watchers who cite satellite images of the area.

The fleet of diesel and nuclear-powered submarines reflects President Xi Jinping’s efforts to ensure the security of sea lanes vital for feeding the economic growth on which the nation’s stability rests. It’s also provoked discomfort among neighbors bruised by China’s approach to territorial disputes.

As countries from India to Australia and Vietnam spend tens of billions upgrading their underwater fleets, cluttering the sea as well as the sky with the reconnaissance craft that follow, the risk is that a clash that previously might have been limited to coast guard and fishing boats spills into military conflict.

“Countries are saying: we need to put into place some kind of credible force that puts doubt into the mind of a Chinese admiral,” said Bill Hayton, author of “The South China Sea: The Struggle for Power in Asia.” “They are clearly thinking about that because otherwise why are they buying submarines and anti-ship missiles?”

Defense spending in Asia and Oceania rose 3.6 percent to $407 billion in 2013, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, making it the only region where spending increased every year since SIPRI began collecting the data in 1988. That was led by a 7.4 percent rise in China’s spending, with a 5 percent increase for Southeast Asia.

China’s Fleet

The People’s Liberation Army Navy has 56 attack submarines, of which 51 are conventional diesel-electric and five are nuclear powered, according to a U.S. Department of Defense report to congress published in April.

China also has three nuclear-powered submarines that can launch ballistic missiles, and may add five more, according to the Pentagon report. The report said these subs will this year carry the JL-2 ballistic missile, which has an estimated range of 7,400 kilometers (4,600 miles) and will “give the PLA Navy its first credible sea-based nuclear deterrent.”

A range of that distance would allow the missiles to reach Hawaii if launched from the Western Pacific, and California if fired from the mid-Pacific, according to Dean Cheng, a research fellow on Chinese political and security affairs at The Heritage Foundation in Washington.

‘Local Wars’

The subs, armed with anti-ship cruise missiles and torpedoes, will help Xi as he seeks to realize another goal: readying the military to fight and win “local wars” in the information age. Under that scenario China would let loose its submarines, air force and surface and sub-surface missile power, managed by a state-of-art command system that integrates everything from computers to intelligence.

“The level of improvement they have achieved over the past 20 years in platforms - ships, aircraft, missiles, land vehicles, tanks, submarines - isn’t matched by the integration that the Americans are so good at,” said Sam Roggeveen, an analyst at the Lowy Institute in Sydney who specializes in China’s military technology.

Xi continues to call on the military to get into shape, saying on Sept. 22 the PLA should improve combat readiness and sharpen its ability to win a regional war

First Blood

The need to glean just how prepared they are explains the U.S. surveillance flights near China’s coast, one of which led to an Aug. 19 encounter that the Pentagon described as ‘‘unsafe and unprofessional’’ after a Chinese fighter jet flew within 20 feet of a U.S. P-8 Poseidon aircraft near Hainan.

“China’s advance in submarine capabilities is significant,” Admiral Samuel Locklear, head of the U.S. Pacific Command, told the U.S. Senate in March. He later told Senator Kelly Ayotte that it was unfortunate that defense budget cuts meant the U.S. attack submarine fleet would shrink from 55 to 42 by 2029, according to DefenseNews, a security publication.

“Submarines are probably the most powerful weapon, apart from nuclear bombs, because they are stealthy and quiet and potentially omnipresent,” said Cheng. “In a naval conflict they are most likely to draw first blood.”

Territorial Tensions

China’s modernization program is reflected in the presence of missile-bearing submarines in the South China Sea, where it claims about 90 percent of the area and has disputes with countries such as Vietnam and the Philippines. About half of the world’s merchant tonnage flows through the South China Sea, carrying about $5.3 trillion of goods each year.

Tensions flared in May when China moved an oil rig into waters claimed by Vietnam and again after it completed an upgraded airstrip in the contested Paracel Islands. China’s artificial island project in the Spratly Islands is another irritant to countries in the region that have territorial claims in the area.

When asked about reports that PLA Navy chief Admiral Wu Shengli last month toured land reclamation work in the South China Sea, defense ministry spokesman Yang Yujun replied that China has indisputable sovereignty over the islands.

“We have come past the point in the past 12 months where China can explain its own behavior as a reaction to what others are doing,” said Roggeveen. “The oil rig wasn’t a response, it was a preemptive Chinese move.”

Colombo Stopover

Forays by Chinese submarines through the Malacca Strait and into the Indian Ocean are cause for unease in India. Its navy unveiled its first home-built anti-submarine warship in August and Prime Minister Narendra Modi vowed to bolster the country’s defenses so that “no one dares to cast an evil glance at India.”

Those concerns were fueled when a diesel-electric Type 039 Song Class submarine docked at the Chinese-funded International Container Terminal in the Sri Lankan capital of Colombo in September, days before a visit by Xi to New Delhi. The Indian Ocean is home to shipping lanes carrying about 80 percent of the world’s seaborne oil, mostly headed to China and Japan.

“If you are dependent upon seaborne commerce and if you’re not comfortable with your dependence on another power’s ability to dictate your access to the seas, then you’re going to want to develop your own capabilities to protect the sea lanes yourself,” China’s state-run Global Times said in an Oct. 20 article.

The submarine stopped in Colombo en route to the Gulf of Aden off the coast of Somalia to join a navy escort mission, China’s defense ministry said in response to faxed questions.

Regional Buildup

As China extends its range, regional navies are responding. India is beefing up its fleet of 15 submarines, saying Oct. 25 it will spend 800 billion rupees ($13 billion) to build them locally. India took delivery of its fifth Boeing’s P-8I maritime patrol aircraft last month.

Vietnam has received three kilo-class submarines from Russia and is scheduled to get another three by 2016, Thanh Nien newspaper reported in March. The subs are diesel-electric and are part of a deal signed in 2009 worth $2 billion, the paper reported.

Indonesia plans to field 12 submarines and is buying two from Daewoo Shipbuilding & Marine Engineering (042660), according to IHS Jane’s Defence Weekly.

Australia is looking to replace and expand on its six aging Collins Class diesel-electric guided missile submarines, according to the government. It may spend about A$20 billion ($17.6 billion) on as many as 12 new submarines, the Australian Financial Review reported Oct. 28.

Hainan Hub

Singapore, which has six submarines, has ordered two more from ThyssenKrupp Marine System GmBH. Taiwan has four submarines, two of which are outdated for operations and are used for training, according to GlobalSecurity.org, a Virginia-based security website. It plans to build its own and will need help from the U.S. and others, according to the Ministry of National Defense.

The development of Hainan sits at the center of China’s submarine strategy, according to Felix Chang, a senior fellow at the Foreign Policy Research Institute in Philadelphia. The island has been home to a submarine base since World War II on the southeast area of Sanya, now an upscale tourist destination.


‘Relatively Cramped’

As Sanya become more built up, the PLA Navy started to develop new sites. One to the south west that will probably be for conventional submarines, and two areas on the western side of Yalong Bay to Sanya’s west: a surface vessel base with two long piers capable of mooring an aircraft carrier to the north, and to the south a base probably designed for nuclear-powered submarines with only one road link, which Chang said indicates its high security level.

Jutting from the shore four piers are discernible, enough to moor 8 submarines. To the south of those piers is the underwater tunnel, about 16 meters wide, leading to a cave dug out from under a hill, said Chang.

“I don’t imagine the submarine tunnel at Yalong Bay to be as spacious as the James Bond villain’s lair,” he said. “It’s probably relatively cramped. Excavating rock and building structural supports are expensive in the real world.”

To contact the reporter on this story: David Tweed in Hong Kong at dtweed@bloomberg.net

To contact the editors responsible for this story: Rosalind Mathieson at rmathieson3@bloomberg.net Neil Western

[Austin]

short story from K-535 Yuri Dolgorukiy/Mace Strike ( use Eng subtitle )

[Kartik]

Just look at the cost of the Soryu built in Japan itself- $22 billion for 10 subs ! And if they were to be built in Australia, the price would be around 36 billion AUD !!

European shipyards face Soryu shaped hurdle to replacing Collins class subs

European companies lobbying to build Australia's next generation of conventionally powered submarines are facing a complex situation that may lack clarity but is awash with speculation.

At stake is a multibillion dollar contract under Project Sea 1000 to construct a yet-to-be determined design and unknown number of replacements for the Royal Australian Navy's (RAN's) six 3,400-tonne Collins-class boats amid what is understood to be a politically driven preference for a Japanese solution.

Sources close to the project say discussions to date involve the construction in Japan of 10 of the 4,000-tonne Soryu class at a cost of about AUD25 billion (USD22 billion) compared to an estimated AUD36 billion for an Australian-designed and -built replacement.

An agreement in July between Prime Minister Tony Abbott and his Japanese counterpart Shinzo Abe to enhance bilateral security and defence co- operation saw discussions rapidly move from drive train technology to senior-level talks on a full build in Japan.

Although Australian officials are adamant the government is still considering its options, informed sources say Abbott is pressing for an early decision on the Soryu class, driven by his close relationship with Abe and a desire to deepen strategic and trade relations with Tokyo.

In mid-October Defence Minister David Johnston formally asked Japan to investigate possible assistance with the Future Submarine programme - a request coinciding with a visit to Canberra by a delegation from ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS), owner of German submarine builder HDW, which is pressing the case for its developmental 4,000-tonne Type 216. TKMS is on the record as pledging to deliver 12 submarines - the number suggested in the 2009 Defence White Paper - for about AUD20 billion.

Meanwhile, earlier in the month Thales CEO Jean-Bernard Levy said the company would team with French submarine builder DCNS should the Abbott government respond to industry calls for a competitive tender: something that Johnston has declined to be drawn on. Defence sources said DCNS would offer a larger version of its Scorpene design.

Following its full takeover in July of Collins-class designer Kockums, Saab was quick to confirm its own readiness not only to involve Australian engineers and technicians in the construction of its 3,000-tonne A26 submarine, but to design a 4,000-tonne variant specifically for Sea 1000.

Notwithstanding a pre-election pledge that the Collins-class replacement would be built in South Australia, Abbott said on 16 October that he wanted the best quality of submarine at the best price, regardless of where it was constructed.

For his part, Opposition leader Bill Shorten has warned that he would cancel any plan to buy completed submarines from Japan should the Labor Party win the next federal election in two years' time.

While the Soryu option would necessarily involve modifications to include the AN/BYG-1 combat management system, Australian-specified sensors, and the Mk 48 Mod 7 CBASS heavyweight torpedo jointly developed by the US and Australia, critics have pointed out that little is known about the class and its performance relative to the potential alternatives.

They have also expressed concern that a Soryu acquisition would place Australia's submarine capability at the mercy, for decades to come, of future shifts in Japan's domestic politics and international relations.

So, do we see some of the possible competitors for the P-75I here? Type-216 at 4000 tons, Saab-Kockums with a possible 4000 ton sub or a 3000 ton A26 sub and DCNS with an enlarged Scorpene. Soryu is very unlikely given that it is an offensive weapon and Japan may be reluctant to allow India to purchase and build them in Indian dockyards..and the price!

[Philip]

The buzzards of Oz are totally confused over the sub ambitions and the issue is in a "shambles".

Australian defence industry 'terribly confused' about multi-million-dollar submarine project.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-03/d ... ct/5863228

[Singha]

let me put it this way. the Aus sub program == kittoo on the L&M thread. they 'almost' settle on one girl, but a month later have doubts, cannot understand the OEM and are back at square one asking the same questions.

why on lords earth, they cannot lease/buy a few 688I subs from US, send them back for re-core of n-reactor when needed and just use these excellent and proven platforms is beyond me. the US has close to 60 such submarines and could surely overhaul and deliver 5 of them nicely upgraded with latest weapons and sw. stock up on new Poseidons and MQ4C BAMS to patrol the indonesia-aus gap and thats about it.

after spending $20 billion they will anyways have to run to electric boat co of groton to fix defects, so might as well do it upfront

[Austin]

Would US Lease 688I to Aussie in the first place ? There is no precedent of US leasing N Sub.

[Austin]

RMN fires Black Shark torpedo for first time

Dzirhan Mahadzir, Kuala Lumpur - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly

A Royal Malaysian Navy (RMN) Scorpène-class submarine carried out the service's first successful firing of a Whitehead Alenia Sistemi Subacquei (WASS) Black Shark torpedo on 31 October.

KD Tun Abdul Razak fired the torpedo against a 55 m passenger ferry that had been converted into a target. It subsequently sank.

The firing exercise, called Operation 'Barracuda 1/2014', was carried out at an disclosed location of the east Malaysian portion of the South China Sea. The exercise also involved frigate KD Jebat , patrol vessel KD Terengganu , corvettes KD Kasturi , KD Laksamana Tan Pusmah , submarine rescue vessel Mega Bakti , and a CB90 combat boat, while aerial assets involved were a RMN Eurocopter AS550 Fennec helicopter, a Royal Malaysian Air Force Beechcraft B200T Super King Air, and a EC725 helicopter.

[Philip]

Amazing true story.
http://io9.com/how-one-soviet-submarine ... 1654569891
How one Soviet sub commander averted WW3.

[Philip]

Turko-German U-boat deal heading for the rocks? Window of opportunity for the IN?

http://www.defensenews.com/article/2014 ... s-Setbacks

Turkish-German Submarine Deal Faces Setbacks
Nov. 8, 2014 - 03:45AM | By BURAK EGE BEKDILroubled Waters: The Turkish submarines will be similar to Type 214s built for other navies, such as the Portuguese Tridente. (US Navy)

ANKARA — Turkey’s largest ever single naval contract, a US $3.5 billion deal with a German shipyard for the co-production of six submarines, is facing major delays and disputes over modality, Turkish officials and industry sources said.

“We are in talks with our German partners to iron out differences and put the program back on track,” a senior procurement official familiar with the program said.

The official admitted the program is facing delays, but declined to comment on the reasons behind them.

In 2009, the Turkish government sealed the deal with Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft (HDW), a subsidiary of ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems, based in Kiel, to co-produce six U 214-type diesel submarines for the Turkish Navy. The subs would be manufactured at a naval shipyard in Golcuk, northwestern Turkey.

Another procurement official said “a set of setbacks” has delayed the program but did not elaborate, other than citing “technical reasons.” “I do not think the program can meet the original timetable,” he said.

A spokesman for HDW was unavailable for comment as of press time.
Production was to start in 2011, and the first sub delivered in 2015.

There has been speculation in Ankara that the Turkish government was unable to cancel the contract due to delays or impose sanctions on the German shipyard because it felt threatened by years of German eavesdropping on Turkey’s top officials.

In August, the German newspaper Der Spiegel cited a confidential German intelligence document that revealed Germany’s Federal Intelligence Service had spied on Turkey since 2009.

There were no details on the scale of wiretapping, but in August the Turkish Foreign Ministry said the allegations were “worrisome.” It summoned the German ambassador to Ankara, Eberhard Pohl, for an explanation. Berlin since then has not officially denied the allegations.

“[Accusations of] blackmailing between us the allies is pure fantasy,” a German diplomat in Ankara said. “We are working hard to make sure the submarine program progresses and ends as planned.”

A Turkish diplomat denied Ankara was being blackmailed by Berlin in a “submarine delays vs. tapes” deal. “That’s a particularly bad conspiracy theory,” he said.

But one senior industry source, a specialist in naval contracts, said: “I wouldn’t be so sure about comfortably waving off the claims.” He did not comment further.

After Turkey selected HDW and its Britain-based partner, Marine Force International LLP, contract negotiations saw tough bargaining over price, local content and the integration of some Turkish systems on the submarines. HDW had defeated France’s DCNS and Spain’s Navantia.

In 2011, a team of Turkish and German companies, supported by Turkey’s procurement office, the Undersecretariat for Defense Industries, sought unsuccessfully to sell two HDW-built U 209-type diesel submarines to Indonesia in a $1 billion deal. The Turkish team was competing with South Korea’s Daewoo Shipbuilding and Marine.

Turkey earlier built 14 U 209-type submarines with the German company. ■

[Austin]

Sineva missile launched from Tula submarine

[Austin]

Lead Frigate Admiral Gorshkov start Sea Trials

Pictures http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1051889.html

Specifications:

Displacement: 4,500 tons. (Full)

Main dimensions: length - 135 m, width - 16 m, draft - 4.5 m.

Maximum speed: 29 knots

Cruising range of economic progress: 4000 miles

On the ship there is a takeoff and landing pad and hangar for the helicopter.

Armament:

2x8 PU UKSK RK "Calibre"

4x8 PU SAM "Redoubt" (32 missiles 9M96)

one 130-mm gun mounts A192 with MSA "Puma"

two 30-mm anti-aircraft artillery complex "Palash» 2x2x30-mm

two 14.5-mm machine gun MTPU

2x4 mm PU-330 PTZ "Package-NK"

1 Ka-27

[Shreeman]

^^^^ My eyesight is not what it used to be -- 2x2x30mm? Lead ship without good CIWS? Ah my gerd its the vikramaditya all over again.

[Austin]

^^^ Its got Plama/Palash CIWS system which has fixed 8 missile and 2x30mm Gun , Unlike Kashtan system it does not need deck penetration but also got no reload for missile

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... ciws-.html

[Shreeman]

Single gun /= palma/palash. no missiles either. this is ak630m. 2x30mm total. or my eye sight is real bad (always a possibility).

[Cosmo_R]

That Tula/Sineva video ^^^: The consoles seem to right of the 1950s Grundig Radiograms

https://www.flickr.com/photos/58780736@N08/6761745841

And they're still using the stuff?

[Austin]

Single gun /= palma/palash. no missiles either. this is ak630m. 2x30mm total. or my eye sight is real bad (always a possibility).

The missiles are not loaded yet hence just the gun

[Shreeman]

Austin,

Its a simple AK630M. No point in defending it.

The takeaway was "now we know" why Vik will get AK630s in India. Because Kashtan is obsolete/out of stock, and palma/palash not ready.

[Austin]

Austin,

Its a simple AK630M. No point in defending it.

The takeaway was "now we know" why Vik will get AK630s in India. Because Kashtan is obsolete/out of stock, and palma/palash not ready.

Do the dual gun system with optronics system look like AK-630M to you , Download the pics and see for your self

http://www.wrk.ru/forums/attachment.php ... download=1

Indian ships are standardised on AK-630M/Barak-1 combo as CIWS and hence it has only AK-630 and Barak-1 will be retrofitted once its available.

[Shreeman]

I saw 2 separate 30mm turrets (always thought eyesight was poor). Fullsize shows twin turret. No SAMS.

2x2x30mm agreed. Not AK630, but minus SAMs rest is speculation on my part.

So, some sort of missile free version? Missiles in VLS or not yet done? None of Buyan/M/Gorshkov/Talwar-type RU ships have shown a CIWS fit beyond 630. Even though they are churning them dozen a year now.

The limited choices at the RU manufacturer may have had something to do with CIWS fit in India, even if its 630M/B1. Hard to imagine not wanting to test it with other sensors pre-delivery. Still, just speculation.

[brar_w]

Never see the light of day? The LRASM is going to enter production and deliveries are scheduled for an undisclosed amount ( a few hundred by most account) by 2018 after which the program opens up to competition.

There are few editorials criticizing it and calling for it to be cut hence i am skeptical. It all depends on who gets in WH in 2016. if its Hillary no chance it survives the cuts. IMO its obsolete a subsonic missile flying at high altitude will get eaten up alive by any long range SAM system.

Added:

So you have a low RCS missile that would go low much earlier in its profile if it is going up against a ship that has a 100-120 km shooter for that sort of RCS..How many ships operating in the Pacific do however?

The chinese "Aegis" and RIF SAM system fitted vessel have range over 120+ km. Korea and Japan both operate Aegis platforms. Barak-8 with Booster has range that approaches and hopefully AAD can be fitted on Brahmos VLS cells that should offer 200+ km range. Also have to keep in mind aircraft can only intercept high flying subsonic missiles quite easily low flying targets are much bigger challenge.

Just to move forward the discussion from the Indian Missiles thread, the LRASM is a part of the USN Urgent needs program, and as such is very well protected till the time that it fulfills the stipulated need for the number of units. Like I mentioned earlier, I cannot recall either a democratic or a republican president ever cutting an urgent needs request at a stage when all the money has been spent and deliveries are to begin. If Hillary comes to power, she will most likely have a favorable opinion on defense spending given her posturing as a moderate liberal democrat. Even if Howard Dean (hypo) were to come to power, it would be highly unlikely that an urgent needs requirement is going to be cut, especially when the funding required is tiny and almost unnoticeable when it comes to the strategic picture.

What the fuss was about that may have led you to believe that the LRASM was under threat, was a protest from other makers such as Boeing and Raytheon, that Lockheed was allowed an extension of the competition held for the DARPA program, and therefore there was no new competition whereby they could enter the picture as well and compete with a product of their own. That was decided upon both in Feb of this year and later again, in July. Basically what is happening is that the LRASM-B plan is out, LRASM_A which is the smart "UCAV" like weapon is in, Lockheed has received the money to continue development and will begin delivering the urgent needs requirement of a few hundred missiles by 2018. Beyond this the Program opens up again, and here the incumbent (Boeing) and the challengers Raytheon come in and actually embark on a more long term plan for the OASuW program. The USN has really had no hard requirement for an anti-shipping missile over and above what it and, and that was a capability much neglected. As they move into the Pacific, they are going for the LRASM as an immediate need, and developing a family of weapons under the Offensive Anti-Surface Warfare program that was sort of something from which the LRASM idea itself was born.

Lockheed Martin funded for LRASM follow-on development

Lockheed Martin has received a US Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) contract worth up to USD202 million for follow-on development and accelerated acquisition of the US Navy's (USN's) next-generation Long-Range Anti-Ship Missile (LRASM).

The 2 July award came a week after the Government Accountability Office (GAO) ruled against a joint protest filed by Raytheon and Kongsberg contesting the sole-source LRASM follow-on contract.

LRASM is a joint DARPA/Office of Naval Research programme designed to prove the concept of an autonomous, precision-guided, anti-ship stand-off missile suitable for accelerated transition to production. Lockheed Martin Missiles and Fire Control - Strike Weapons was selected in June 2009 to demonstrate its air-launched concept, which leverages the basic design of the AGM-158B Joint Air-to-Surface Stand-off Missile Extended Range, while introducing additional sensors and systems specific to the offensive anti-surface warfare mission.

Navy to Hold Contest for New Anti-Surface Missile

The Navy plans to hold a competition for an anti-ship missile that could be used from the air or ships and possibly submarines to beef up the service’s ability to take on surface threats, service officials told USNI News this week.

The Offensive Anti-Surface Warfare (OASuW)/Increment 2 anti-ship missile will follow an authorization earlier this year for an air-launched missile currently being developed by Defense Advanced Projects Research Agency.

Towards the effort, the service will update an existing analysis of alternatives for the new weapon to deal with, “the advanced 2024 threat.”

Short_
“Production of air-launched LRASM is planned to commence in FY 2017 to support employment of an early operational capability to both the Air Force and Navy,” Navy spokesman, Lt. Rob Myers, told USNI News in a statement.But LRASM is merely a stopgap for the Navy until it can develop a more comprehensive solution in the form of the OASuW Increment 2—which will be used by aircraft, surface warships and possibly submarines.

Unclassified Contractual material -

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... b_2015.pdf


Of course the investments are being made now by the OEMs for the increment 2. Lockheed in addition to having charted out the basic upgrade plan for the LRASM-A, always had a LRASM-B plan which they had presented to DARPA around 09-10 which I am sure would be one option they may suggest for the Increment 2 and beyond. Furthermore, they invested their own money to make sure the LRASM-A was test launched from a VLS in order to posture themselves for further competitions (VLS launch was not a DARPA or USN requirement as the Immediate needs was only for a weapon for the Super Hornet and the B1 for the USAF). Most believe that a vertical launched missile is the "only" option for the Increment 2 given the integration costs onto USN's ship borne assets (Increment 2 primarily deals with ships - but that can change). Incidentally Raytheon's partner Kongsberg was very quick to showcase a vertical launched varient of the JSM just recently.



Advantage still exists with Lockheed, primarily because they spent over 5 years working with DARPA to develop the seekers, combining Passive RF with a custom IR sensor package and developing threat libraries and incorporating that into the weapon. The biggest advantage they had was that they began the program by using a 500 nautical mile weapon as a base for a 200-220 nm program requirement. They should achieve upwards of 300nm even with the added sensors and this is with a re-routing, autonomous flying profile that DARPA wanted from this weapon. Raytheon and Kongsberg wouldn't be able to get close. Boeing would exceed this with the Tomahawk and they have recently suggested lowering the RCS and adding a supersonic variant to it.

Raytheon on the other hand, had to team up with kongsberg in order to match Lockheed's Maturity with the LRASM and given the time constraints for Increment 2. They have also been busy launching the NSM from USN assets.



The choice of the NSM is interesting, since the JSM would be compatible with the F-35 exactly at the same time the LRASM is (with the UAI insertion) and of course only the JSM fits the F-35's bays while the LRASM does not.

It is fascinating to see both Lockheed and Boeing being silent on a Hypersonic option after one of the boeing guys said something about the USN's interest and investments in the activities going on at Wright Patt and elsewhere and how they could move over from an offensive strike weapon to a AShW.. Lockheed and Boeing were teamed up here, but i seriously doubt that they could find a way given the current and upcoming technology to make a "smart" hypersonic UCAV like weapon that leverages the entire network of assets the USN plans to leverage given the timeframe and cost.

Interview-



As far as targeting missiles @ 100-150km, the LRASM tackles this through both Stealth, and by using the added Passive_RF seeker onboard. The object is to re-route during the cruise phase, incase a pop-up threat emerges and obviously the passive sensor along with the threat library would determine the best course of attack on a particular target. If the ship has your conventional Air defense, they would launch from farther off and let the missile fly optimally, and if the ship has an a 120 km shooter, it would duck lower, much earlier in its profile given the sort of range they calculate for a particular radar and the RCS values that have been extensively tested and evaluated for the JASSM_ER family over the years. Its required to think and act like a UCAV and that is the entire reason why DARPA has been running the program for all these years (close to 6 now) and not a USN office (challenges involved)

[Philip]

This will become a game changer in the future once perfected.

Navy deploys its first laser weapon in Persian Gulf
http://hamptonroads.com/2014/11/navy-de ... rsian-gulf

By Tony Capaccio, Bloomberg News
WASHINGTON

The U.S. Navy has deployed on a command ship in the Persian Gulf its first laser weapon capable of destroying a target.

The amphibious transport ship Ponce has been patrolling with a prototype 30-kilowatt-class Laser Weapon System since late August, according to officials. The laser is mounted facing the bow, and can be fired in several modes — from a dazzling warning flash to a destructive beam — and can set a drone or small boat on fire.

The Ponce "provides a unique platform" to deploy the new capability "in an operationally relevant region," Vice Adm. John Miller, the 5th Fleet commander, said in an emailed statement. The ship is the 5th Fleet's primary command and control afloat staging base for operations

Since 2011, the Navy has boosted its presence in the Persian Gulf and the Strait of Hormuz, through which a fifth of the world's traded oil flows. Equipped with naval mines and small vessels that practice swarming tactics to attack larger warships, Iranian officials have periodically threatened to close the waterway.

The Navy laser wasn't specifically designed or deployed to counter Iran's arsenal of small armed vessels, Chief of Naval Operations Admiral Jonathan Greenert said in an interview earlier this year.

"I wouldn't target a country for a weapon, nor would I preclude putting together a weapons system for a country by itself," he said.

The laser deployment is "a worthwhile experiment" because "it'll help us feel out the operational limitations" such as power constraints, Frank Kendall, the Pentagon's top weapons buyer said at a Bloomberg Government breakfast in April.

However, he said, "I still think we have some work to do on the technology side."

"What am I looking for? How does it operate in that environment — heat, humidity, dust and at sea," Greenert said in the interview. "It's got to roll, move around, how much power does it take to sustain it?"

"I have to take it out and get it wet, and the Arabian Gulf's a pretty tough environment," he said.

Naval Sea Systems Command technicians developed the prototype over seven years at a cost of about $40 million. The Ponce crew was authorized to deploy the weapon after it passed a series of at-sea tests, including lasing static surface targets, the 5th Fleet spokesman Commander Kevin Stephens said in an email statement.

The prototype focuses the light from six solid-state commercial welding lasers on a single spot, according to a July 31 Congressional Research Service report. It "can effectively counter surface and airborne threats, to include small boats" and drones, Miller said, and firing it costs about a dollar a shot, according to the Navy.

The device can emit progressively stronger beams, first to warn an adversary, and then destroy it if necessary, Chief of Naval Research Rear Adm. Matthew Klunder said at a Bloomberg Government session this year.

The laser can be adjusted to fire a non-lethal dazzling flash at an incoming vessel so they know it's there "all the way to lethal," Klunder said. The laser's range is classified.

New York-based L-3 Communications Holdings and Penn State University's Electro Optics Center have provided components and engineering support.

The lessons from the one-year Ponce deployment will feed Navy laser development by industry teams led by BAE Systems, Northrop Grumman and Raytheon, to field a more powerful weapon, possibly by 2021.

Those efforts are separate from military laser designators to guide precision munitions, non-lethal crowd control devices or discontinued instruments intended to blind enemy electro- optical sensors.

The Chinese are steadily producing their reverse-engineered versions of the naval Flanker for their carriers.

http://news.usni.org/2014/11/10/chinese ... 234c8f82d4
Chinese Carrier Fighter Now In Serial Production
By: Mike Yeo
Published: November 10, 2014