Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct 2014

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Tuvaluan
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by Tuvaluan »

"Russians are miffed at our diversification drive wrt weapons. They are courting our rival to make us feel jealous. Theek his let them try that gambit."

Seriously, this is not some dating game, though you make it sound like one. Money talks. Russia's economy is being placed under pressure by the US, and if India works to assist the Russian economy in some way, India will retain some influence with Russia, otherwise not. For example, India could seal a deal to buy oil from Russia for the long term at some rate, even if the rate if higher in the short term -- the retards in KSA will have to increase the prices to previous levels in a year or two, when their own economy comes under pressure. It all depends on how India negotiates a way to do business with all the entities and gets what it wants, as this is what all the other players/countries are also doing.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by Paul »

^^^I get it now.

Nayar analysis is viewing NDA moves from wrong angle. He does not take Modi's objectives into account. Modi's actions in international diplomacy to date are to develop a counter to China wheras Nayar is looking at it from a TSP angle. Modi does not care about TSP for now as significant political capital needs to be expended in isolating Pakistan. He does not view this as a priority. He wants India to break out of South Asia.

Secondly Russia's moves are mainly tactical and they do not see this as upsetting India for some reason. Maybe their confidence is based on the inside info they are getting from their sources in South Block. Plus they may be miffed at having to compete on equal terms with other countries in a market they considered as their own till recently.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by CRamS »

My take on TSP's recent "gains", if you want to call it that is that it remains to be seen how much TSP actually gains, i.e., hit India with its pigLeTs and suffer no repercussions. However, what I am worried about is Modi/BJP haters in India itself. I bet you, Congi perverts like MSA will come out pretty soon on how Modi's foreign policy has failed, how Modi's attempt to isolate TSP failed, and it is time India join the "international community" by having an uninterrupted and uninterruptible dialogue with TSP.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by CRamS »

PaulJi, I do have to say that if I were in Russia's shoes, I too would be miffed at ModiJi's over-eagerness to court US. I don't see any overwhelming benefit by sucking up to US so profusely by inviting Obama to India so soon.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by Paul »

http://www.firstpost.com/world/implicat ... 16957.html

CramsJi, It has already started.

Modi's moves in inviting Obama are aimed at his domestic audience. Indians are impressed as never when American presidents come to India and this visit (that too early in Modi's term) will cement his status as the premier Indian leader who can deliver for India.

It also appears Putin wanted to put India on backfoot when he visits next month with the signing of def agreement in TSP. But with Obama coming, looks like he got blindsided, now for his move.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by svinayak »

CRamS wrote:PaulJi, I do have to say that if I were in Russia's shoes, I too would be miffed at ModiJi's over-eagerness to court US. I don't see any overwhelming benefit by sucking up to US so profusely by inviting Obama to India so soon.
There could be an offer for UNSC seat ...
Dont discount anything
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by arun »

arun wrote:X Posted from the “Pakistani Role In Global Terrorism” thread.

Our Home Minister, Rajnath Singh, is very explicit and blunt about the role of State Actors of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan in fomenting Mohammadden Terrorism in India.
"Terrorism in India is fully Pakistan sponsored. Pakistan says non state actors are involved. But is ISI non-state actor. ISI is aiding terrorism,"
Regards the so called “trial” in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan of Mohammadden Terrorists involved in the 2008 Mumbai attack, says the Islamic Republic of Pakistan is trying to scuttle the judicial process:
"Pakistan is not helping in the judicial process. In fact it is trying to scuttle it,"
Our Home Minister pointed out that Mohammadden Terrorist Osama Bin Laden could not have lived in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan without support of the Uniformed Jihadi’s of the Military via the notorious Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate the ISID aka ISI:
Mr Singh said slain al Qaeda chief Osama Bin Laden was in Pakistan for a long time and he could not have stayed there without ISI's help.
Lots of other tit bits available:

Pakistan Sponsoring Terrorism, Dawood is in Afghan Border: Rajnath Singh
X Posted from the “Pakistani Role In Global Terrorism” thread.

Video of NDTV telecast of our Home Minister Rajnath Singh’s speech, in Hindi, at the Hindustan Times Leadership Summit 2014. See starting 3:45 for comments on the direct role of “State Actors” of the Islamic Republic Of Pakistan in supporting terrorism and terrorists targeting India:

'Want to ask Pakistan - is ISI a non-state actor?': Home Minister Rajnath Singh
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by Paul »

The other missing piece is the Modi-Putin meeting in Australia. No news on how that went. From what I heard before, Putin had utmost contempt for MMS, so why is he bent on getting off on the wrong foot with Modi?
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by member_20385 »

National security imperatives : General Aslam Beg

http://nation.com.pk/columns/23-Nov-201 ... mperatives

not much difference in thinking of zaid hamid and senile general.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by Tuvaluan »

Paul:"No news on how that went. From what I heard before, Putin had utmost contempt for MMS, so why is he bent on getting off on the wrong foot with Modi?"

If there was no news, seems presumptuous to assume it was bad news (or good news). This seems more like a matter of keeping a tight lid on what went on in the G20, which was basically an avenue for US/Canada/EU to insult Putin, or so it seems. Still early days, IMHO.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by Tuvaluan »

"not much difference in thinking of zaid hamid and senile general."

Which is what makes Pakistan so easy to predict -- the entire gang of the jihadis in the army and their minions think with the same single Ummah neuron.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by Rahul M »

people are reading far too much into this defence pact.

some facts to ponder :

>> pakis already use significant russian weapons, Mi-17 helicopters and the RD-93 powers the bandaar -- their main bet in the fighter category. pakis using russian weapons is not something new.

>> unlike US arms 'aid' no other weapons making country donates weapons to pakis, not even china. as long as the russians charge market rates and dont sell crown jewels like submarines, SAMs, PGMs, cruise & anti-ship missiles etc such arms transfer wont have much of an effect on Indo-pak military balance. remember, pak ability to finance such buys is extremely limited.

>> there is not much that russia offers AND pak can afford that might be considered gamechangers. India itself has moved away from russian arms to a large extent because of the simple fact, in many sectors russian arms are no longer state of the art.

>> as of now there is nothing the new govt has done which is directly detrimental to russian interests. even when the west has made putin a pariah, India under modi has refused to play along. I believe russians are pragmatic enough to understand that, as long as they stay off the vodka !

>> that however doesnt mean India will offer declarations on the lines of "sweeter than honey ..." ala the chin-paks. it would be construed as needlessly rubbing their noses in by west and Indo-Russian relation has no need for a PDA right now.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by Paul »

^Er, it might have other ramifications too, such as closer cooperation between Russia and TSP on Afghanistan.

This was also alluded to in the pact. If this happens, TSP will have breached the Iran-India-Russia axis which backed the NA.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by Rahul M »

I am sure that will happen ! when pigs fly.

there is nothing that pak offers russia. co-operation in Afg to what end ? russia isnt directly impacted by Afg events, too many buffer states in between, none of which have a favourable view of pakhtun taliban.

at most pak can say we wont allow Afg soil to be used to train chechens. we all know the value of such promises aka pakistans ability and willingness to keep them (ask the chinese). russians are no fools. dont read too much into feel good pacts written in diplomatese.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by pankajs »

Âgree.

That is why I think Russian moves wrt Pakis should not get our dhotis in a twist.

Modi is an unknown commodity on the international market but he surely represents a major departure from past PMs. The Russians not knowing what to expect, in their own way (KGB style), are trying to send a message to Modi before the upcoming summit meeting. We are reading too much into it just as the Russians intended.

Further on Nayar's article, His focus is not the Russian or American or the Chinese but that Pakis have scored thrice to Modi's once. He is doing the usual WKK posturing i.e this is the best opportunity to deal with Pakistan and make peace before the ground shifts against India. The "ground shifted" when Ombaba called Loin is to give him the bad news , from Paki POV that is, is a dead giveaway. He is also trying to portray Modi foreign policy as a fail.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by A_Gupta »

Paul wrote:The other missing piece is the Modi-Putin meeting in Australia. No news on how that went. From what I heard before, Putin had utmost contempt for MMS, so why is he bent on getting off on the wrong foot with Modi?
Scroll down for Putin-Modi pic.

http://scroll.in/article/690116/A-sneak ... avel-album
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by gakakkad »

I am not sure Putin would want to get into wrong books of Modi,especially when everyone of the Major world powers is gunning for him.. I admired Russian science and engineering.. I hope he does not need a Jhapad delivered by Modi..
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by Paul »

^^^^Stranger things have happened in this world than flying pigs. There is nothing that Pakistan offers much to the USA either by ur logic but it is unbelievable how the whiskey swilling generals manage to string the americans along.

Pakistan offers Russia security for its southern flank where Gas can be transported to its southern allies. The Russians also need good relationships to widen their options in the Islamic world. Right now, with Gaddhafi gone, they are left with isolated Syria and Iran....hence this tentative opening to Pakistan.

Key is look at this from Putin's angle, he may not even be looking for a quid pro quo from TSP. Other than garnering goodwill in America's key client state by engaging with it....with actual returns coming in much later.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by arun »

Brian Cloughley unsurprisingly given his past track record of partisanship goes to bat for the Islamic Republic Of Pakistan. Peddles the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s well-worn line of “Third Party Mediation” which is an anathema for India and most Indian’s :

Mediate for peace in Kashmir
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by RajeshA »

Who actually is keeping Pakistan together? It is USA and the West. All those countries which the West doesn't like can fall apart, except nations which have a strong backbone, like India.

Countries like Yugoslavia (Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Macedonia...) , Indonesia (East Timor), Serbia (Kosovo), Sudan (South Sudan), ... have been split after UN came into being, while others are being held together, because the West wants it so, e.g. Pakistan, Iraq, etc..

I know that West and Sunnis (GCC, Egypt, Pakistan, ...) are bosom buddies of USA-UK, but I wonder if Pakistan starts bedding Russia, whether things can change!

Pakistan has often made the case that it should be part of Russia-China axis against West, because despite its love-affair with USA, Pakistan also shares the Islamic hate for USA!

In which case, cozying up to Russia, can just be what could trigger the idea in the West, to let it disintegrate under its own weight! And despite having a military relationship with Russia, Russia would be all to glad to let Pakistan disappear from the Map.

Secondly Pakistan may feel that there are better chances of Russia grandfathering a North-South Oil+Gas Pipeline from Russia to India, or an Iran-Pakistan-India pipeline than USA. This way TSPA can sit tight and enjoy the cash flowing into its coffers without needing to do anything - just sitting back and see its bank-balance go up, with an extra power to stop such transmission when it wants. With Ghani now in charge of Afghanistan, Pakistan may not feel threatened by India.

With USA winding down its operations in the region, and its need for Pakistan decreasing at least as far as that aspect of its reliance on Pakistan goes, perhaps Pakistan may indeed be sensing that its money from USA may be winding down, and it needs to explore new horizons.

If Pakistan does make a substantial tilt towards Russia, then USA may not feel beholden to it at all and may even decide to punish it, that means coming in support of any plans India makes in taking Pakistan apart.

So Pakistan can overplay its hand!

No amount of Chinese billions can really save Pakistan. There Pakistan can be a black-hole. Russia may be interested in some deliverables - drugs, Chechens, pipeline, etc. but Russia would not be going out of its way in stopping Pakistan's disintegration.

So Pakistan moving towards Russia may not necessarily be a bad deed for us!

What Modi needs USA to understand is that it is best that Pakistan disintegrates.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by CRamS »

Well its the same old India TSP story repeating once again. For all the tough talk by Modi & Co, its business as usual with TSP, at least it seems so

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 249818.cms
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by pankajs »

It has been the same old routine from the time the new government took office. Modi went to the US and on top of that he shook hands with ombaba! Where is the change hanji?? Why Modi even addressed the same UN and spoke from the same platform as Munna mohan! 400% proof that Modi is following on the footsteps of MMS onlee.

So why should it be different with Papistan and why should Modi not shake hands with Nawaz?
Last edited by pankajs on 23 Nov 2014 19:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by CRamS »

pankajsJi, I thought ModiJi's approach is going to be different? New red lines? Free hand to Indian army? No talks until TSP desists from indulging Harried scum? What happened? TSP brazenly declares that it will meet the Harried scum. But India says meeting TSP not ruled out. Trying to make sense of this.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by Rahul M »

save your outrage till he talks first. take it from me, there's going to be no Indo_pak talks in SAARC.

please learn to decipher routine boilerplate statements issued by diplomats.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by Paul »

TSP is projected to have 200 nukes by 2020 per twitter. We have to assume that at least 1% will get used.

How do we manage this nightmare?
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by KLNMurthy »

pankajs wrote:On Nayar's article

Russians are miffed at our diversification drive wrt weapons. They are courting our rival to make us feel jealous. Theek his let them try that gambit.

I wonder how many times has the ground shifted under Modi since May for I am sure there have been many more conversations between Loin and Ombaba.
Nayar's agenda seems to be to paint the Modi government as a miserable failure using a hysterical and hyperbolic style of writing. I am surprised to see BRFites calling it "sober" when it is anything but.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by ramana »

Since wehn did BRF start paying attention to old wind bag anti India Kuldip Nayar!

Modi will remove Art 370 and that will unwind TSP.
Rajaram's Peaceful Implosion of Pakistan (PIP).

Russia has to think about keeping TSP on leash for its Chechen terrorists. So a few old helicopters to shoot up TTP is par for the course.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by Paul »

K P Nayar is different from Kuldeep Nayyar.

K P Nayar IIRC from our discussions on IUCNA many years ago is a journo based out of DC. Kuldeep Nayyar must be in his 90s now and is not too active in the Lutyens circuit these days
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by g.sarkar »

already posted.
Last edited by g.sarkar on 23 Nov 2014 22:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by Dipanker »

Paul wrote:TSP is projected to have 200 nukes by 2020 per twitter. We have to assume that at least 1% will get used.

How do we manage this nightmare?
Think in terms of how many nukes it will take to neutralize Pakjab, so if the Pakjabis know it would take may be less than a dozen to neutralize Pakjab, they can go and build millions, it is immaterial.

As simple as that!
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by CRamS »

Whoever this "unnamed source" is who spoke to Sheela Butt, its a lot hot air. Essentially a climb down masquearding as some kind of policy. Some nuggets:

The Indian side thinks the SAARC event is the most appropriate event to catch up with Pakistan because Modi will be speaking from a position of strength. If, in May, by inviting Sharif he showed the required pragmatism, Modi displayed that he is different from his predecessor Dr Manmohan Singh when he ordered the cancellation of foreign secretary-level talks with Pakistan.

The initiative with Pakistan had to come from the Indian side. As things stand today, a well-planned or structured meeting may not occur in Kathmandu, but there will be some connectivity between the two leaders.

If Modi decides to avoid little more than a handshake with Sharif, then he will not have an opportunity to engage Sharif in the near future

In Kathmandu Modi will need to demonstrate statesmanship, because he has revealed in America his promise to think big on issues related to the region. If he carries forward his views on various international platforms, he will speak from a position of strength after India's more than assertive response against Pakistan's unprovoked firing at the LoC.
Why the f(ck "statesmanship" always has to come from India? And what leverage does India have over TSP anyway to show any statesmanship? No talks, just status quo and defending India from TSP terror provocations is the most effective and dignified thing India can do IMO. None of this statesmanship crap. Cheap talk like that is only succumbing to some kind of pressure masquerading as so called "statesmanship".
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by RajeshA »

I want Modi and Nawaz Sharif to sit and talk at the SAARC summit and then give out a press release which says they talked about climate change and animal husbandry in the Indian Subcontinent. They plan to continue these discussions next time as well.

In the mean time we can continue our firing on the border.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by vishvak »

[quote==>
If Modi decides to avoid little more than a handshake with Sharif, then he will not have an opportunity to engage Sharif in the near future
<==/quote]

What has pakis offered to:

To birathers Iran, not clear assurances:
Pakistan asks Iran to provide evidence of cross-border activity, 18 October 2014.

To birathers Afghanistan :Pakistan Won’t Allow Base for Attacks on Afghanistan, Aziz Says , August 05, 2014
Aziz said. “Our objective is to eliminate all terrorist entities, to establish the writ of the state and not let our territory be used against any other country.”
..
“We told Kabul that when we retaliate we don’t attack on the Afghan soil but on those people,” Aziz said. :rotfl:
Pakis will offer not to let unwshed abduls harass others, that is paki Universal Selling Point.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by Prem »

Paul wrote:K P Nayar is different from Kuldeep Nayyar.
K P Nayar IIRC from our discussions on IUCNA many years ago is a journo based out of DC. Kuldeep Nayyar must be in his 90s now and is not too active in the Lutyens circuit these days
Lately even Kuldeep Nayyar told Paki off on TV show and told them lies wont win them anything from India. The old man is well aware of Paki perfidia shedia.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by Karan M »

Paul wrote:K P Nayar is different from Kuldeep Nayyar.

K P Nayar IIRC from our discussions on IUCNA many years ago is a journo based out of DC. Kuldeep Nayyar must be in his 90s now and is not too active in the Lutyens circuit these days
KP Nayar is one more of the old establishment left leaning types who has been in media circles for a long time. He wrote that sensational article on "Barack Hussein Obama, with H being my middle name" to indicate BO's dislike for Hindu Modi. Now BO is coming to India, Nayar is scrambling to save his H&D and out comes this hit piece.

At the end of the day, most of these media jokers are the same. We have to take whatever they say with a ton of salt.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by Karan M »

Jhujar wrote:
Paul wrote:K P Nayar is different from Kuldeep Nayyar.
K P Nayar IIRC from our discussions on IUCNA many years ago is a journo based out of DC. Kuldeep Nayyar must be in his 90s now and is not too active in the Lutyens circuit these days
Lately even Kuldeep Nayyar told Paki off on TV show and told them lies wont win them anything from India. The old man is well aware of Paki perfidia shedia.
Perhaps the moron is getting some common sense now.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by Dipanker »

IMO part of the reason Modi/India may be nice to Badmash at SAARC is to boslster him vis a vis TSPA as Badmash is still not totally out of woods yet and TSPA has not given up hope of unseating him since Dimran has not yet folded up his tamasha and continues on with jalsa this and jalsa that.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by RajeshA »

India should make Badmash the Yelzin of Pakistan!
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct

Post by sanjaykumar »

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia ... 11114.html

Mediate for peace in Kashmir
By Brian Cloughley

This Brian Cloughley seems to be a pal of Robin Raphel's.

But give credit-atimes.com is a crucial website followed with trepidation in New Delhi.
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