Indian Naval News & Discussion - 12 Oct 2013

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Jan 2015 13:12

one option for ADS2 could be a small n-reactor just to generate steam for steam cats if the EMALS thing does not work out.
would certainly be smaller than the arihant plant and need no steam turbine and gearbox machinery...just reactor and heat exchanger to produce non-radioactive steam.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 30 Jan 2015 14:56

The tragedy for the UK armed forces is that the splendid Nimrod ASW aircraft which operated very successfully during the Cold War,and had many more years of life in them were for budgetary reasons "literally "chopped up",not even mothballed ,as the canny Russians have done with much of their Soviet era weapon systems which are now being taken out ,upgraded and are being put to good use. 70+ Harriers were retired in their prime,snapped up lock,stock and barrel by the USMC too! Now the asinine British govt. has to buy new ASW aircraft which in all probability be the P-8. American manufacturers,who also supply the Trident ICBM system for RN SSBNs,are laughing all the way to the bank.Trident is fast becoming an election issue,elections later in the year,as billions are being 'wasted" say many on Britain's large strat. deterrent,while its conventional forces.needed far more urgently is being butchered not by the Russians or Chinese or ISIS,but by their own accountants! Truly "the pen is mightier than the sword"!

Other than cats/EMALS,US carrier tech holds nothing special unless one adds electric drive and its cutting edge defensive weaponry like lasers,rail guns,etc.,which will not be on the menu. The US is highly unlikely as well to offer us a naval N-plant.BAARC is quite capable of developing the same with whatever assistance is required from Russia. Just one N-plant for a single AC may also raise the cost of the carrier beyond its budget.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 30 Jan 2015 18:16

The Indo-China Sea:

Gents,with the cheap aggro being displayed by the PRC,let's call the South China Sea,what its real name is,the waters contiguous to the land mass of Asia known for ages as "Indo-China".Therefore,the adjacent sea must be called the "Indo-China Sea". China also has the audacity to call Ar. Pradesh Southern Tibet,therefore we should call Tibet "Northern UP"! If the Chinese make good their threat of sending into the IOR larger numbers of naval vessels and subs,so too should India establish naval/air bases in Vietnam-just as China is doing at Gwadar,and have a permanent presence of naval ships and subs in the "Indo-China Sea".

China to deploy range of naval ships in Indian Ocean
By PTI | 29 Jan, 2015
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... aign=cppst

BEIJING: Riled by reports of the US sharing intelligence with India over movements of Chinese submarines in the Indian Ocean, China today said it would deploy "different kinds of naval ships" depending on requirements of operations and other nations "need not read too much into it".

Asked about reports that US is providing intelligence to India about movement of Chinese submarines in the Indian Ocean, Chinese military spokesman Col Yang Yujin told a media briefing here that China is ddeploying its naval fleet on escort missions in anti-piracy operations in Gulf of Aden and Somalia under UN resolution of 2008.

The reports of sharing submarine intelligence coincided with the recent visit of US President Barack Obama to India.

"I read the report you have mentioned. We have notified relevant countries about the escort missions of the Chinese PLA Navy ships including submarines," he said without specifying countries to whom Beijing provided information.
"In future, Chinese military will send different kinds of naval ships to take part in the naval escort in accordance with change of situation and the requirement of the task. These are quite normal activities and there is no need to read too much into them," he said without elaborating.

China is currently conducting the sea trials of its first aircraft carrier Liaoning amid reports that it plans to build three more.

It is not clear whether China plans to deploy the aircraft carrier too for anti-piracy operations.
To another question as to why China has to deploy submarines for anti-piracy operations in Indian Ocean aimed at targeting pirates, Yang said different vessels play a different role in such missions.

The deployment of Chinese submarines had raised concerns in India.
"It is true that China has sent naval ships to far-seas and conducted many operations including the naval escort and anti pirate missions," he said.
They also provide humanitarian assistance, disaster relief and search and rescue in international waters. "By doing so Chinese navy is providing more international service helping with peace and stability in the open seas," he said.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 30 Jan 2015 18:49

^^ Well you can never win with Chinese when it comes to name calling. Let them call it what they want.

Only thing India need to do it to park its own SSN/SSBN right next to their doorstep. Indian ships are already visiting these places regularly (although less frequently).

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 30 Jan 2015 19:11

Philip wrote:The tragedy for the UK armed forces is that the splendid Nimrod ASW aircraft which operated very successfully during the Cold War,and had many more years of life in them were for budgetary reasons "literally "chopped up",not even mothballed ,as the canny Russians have done with much of their Soviet era weapon systems which are now being taken out ,upgraded and are being put to good use. 70+ Harriers were retired in their prime,snapped up lock,stock and barrel by the USMC too! Now the asinine British govt. has to buy new ASW aircraft which in all probability be the P-8. American manufacturers,who also supply the Trident ICBM system for RN SSBNs,are laughing all the way to the bank.Trident is fast becoming an election issue,elections later in the year,as billions are being 'wasted" say many on Britain's large strat. deterrent,while its conventional forces.needed far more urgently is being butchered not by the Russians or Chinese or ISIS,but by their own accountants! Truly "the pen is mightier than the sword"!

Other than cats/EMALS,US carrier tech holds nothing special unless one adds electric drive and its cutting edge defensive weaponry like lasers,rail guns,etc.,which will not be on the menu. The US is highly unlikely as well to offer us a naval N-plant.BAARC is quite capable of developing the same with whatever assistance is required from Russia. Just one N-plant for a single AC may also raise the cost of the carrier beyond its budget.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4752&p=1788245#p1788246

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 31 Jan 2015 07:14

Obama helps Modi close in on US Navy know-how

Good read

"We are pleased with the presidential announcement regarding the establishment of a bilateral working group on aircraft carrier technology sharing and design, and we are looking forward to exploring this extraordinary area of opportunity with our Indian counterparts," said Marine Corps Lt. Col. Jeffrey Pool, a Pentagon spokesman.

"What the U.S. has done during Obama's visit, in terms of expressing intent to sharing its aircraft carrier technology with India, is a huge signal to China, even a warning, that it's willing to work with India," said Surya Gangadharan, an independent security analyst in New Delhi.

"A lot of progress has been made on the defense side," Lall said in an interview in New Delhi on Tuesday, Jan. 27, during a visit to India as part of a business delegation traveling with Obama. "We're actually now identifying real technologies that are required and where the U.S. could contribute."

kit · Post by **kit** » 31 Jan 2015 13:09

Building up a credible military deterrent in India could serve more american interest than a direct conflict with its biggest creditor. EMALS would definitely come but America will want to have its cake and eat it too ..how much is India going to go as far end user restrictions and monitoring goes

kit · Post by **kit** » 31 Jan 2015 13:12

Base rights in the philippines vietnam and regular visits to japanese ports would be a good counter to chinese aggression in the Indian Ocean ,,by the way why not call the South china sea as Indochina sea

..could be psychological booster !

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 31 Jan 2015 13:53

A good DID perspective on the Vik-A and the IN's carrier aviation plans.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/ins ... #more-3283
INS Vikramaditya: India’s New Carrier
Jan 26, 2015

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 01 Feb 2015 11:01

Good video from the Western command. Plenty of visuals including MiG ops aboard VKD

anand_sankar · Post by **anand_sankar** » 01 Feb 2015 11:21

The video??? ^^^^^^

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 02 Feb 2015 17:28

The IN is very short on minesweepers,with little hope in sight for relief after the SoKo deal was scuttled.Here is a possibility,the world's largest fibreglass-hulled minesweeper just completred in Russia. Interesting specs,worth evaluating for local construction over here.Ck the lick for the video clip.

Huge Russian fiberglass minesweeper to join Navy in November
Published time: February 02, 2015

Spectators watch the float-out of the Alexander Obukhov new generation minesweeper lead ship at Sredne-Nevsky Shipyard, St Petersburg. (RIA Novosti/Igor Russak))

Harbor tests of Aleksandr Obukhov, the head ship of the new Aleksandrit minesweeper class, have started in St. Petersburg, the Navy reported. The ship, with a unique fiberglass hull, is to be accepted by the military in November.

The 61-meter-long warship is the largest in the world to feature a monolith hull fabricated from glass-reinforced plastic compound. The material combines the low magnetic signature necessary for a minesweeper dealing with magnetic mines, lower mass compared to metal, high strength to ensure survivability and resistance to corrosion that would allow the ship to last for some 60 years.

According to the Sredne-Nevsky shipyard, the ship manufacturer, it took only 1.5 days to produce the hull using vacuum infusion technology. Both the speed and the size were record-breaking. One-piece plastic hulls are usually made for ships less than half the size of the Aleksandr Obukhov.

In addition to the fiberglass hull the minesweeper has advanced sweeps, submersible drones, and highly integrated and automated control systems.

The Aleksandrit-class minesweeper has full displacement of 890 tons, can sail up to 16.5 knots fast and requires a crew of 44 members. It is armed with an AK-306 30-mm anti-aircraft cannon and six SAM missiles Igla for protection. The Navy says it wants at least three such ships deployed.

Development of the Aleksandrit-class minesweeper started in 2002 at the Almaz design bureau, with the head ship laid down in September 2011. The ship was launched in July last year.

The Navy expects that the shipyard would send Aleksandr Obukhov for its maiden voyage in June and scheduled their own acceptance trials for September.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 04 Feb 2015 15:59

India eyes US aircraft carrier technology as arms ties deepen.

Former rear admiral Ravi Vohra said the Indian navy's ultimate objective was a five-carrier fleet comprising a mix of large and small carriers.

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 04 Feb 2015 16:51

Vipul wrote:India eyes US aircraft carrier technology as arms ties deepen.

Former rear admiral Ravi Vohra said the Indian navy's ultimate objective was a five-carrier fleet comprising a mix of large and small carriers.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 04 Feb 2015 19:28

Just realised that Kolkata has veritcal launch silos for Brahmos. Noice.
Isn't it possible for Akash to be integrated with some modifications on the ship as it doesn't have anti-air capabilities ?

John · Post by **John** » 04 Feb 2015 19:52

jamwal wrote:Just realised that Kolkata has veritcal launch silos for Brahmos. Noice.
Isn't it possible for Akash to be integrated with some modifications on the ship as it doesn't have anti-air capabilities ?

Kolkata has Barak-8 for Anti air craft purpose.

kit · Post by **kit** » 04 Feb 2015 20:43

the kolkata has possibly the best anti ship missile and air defence missile in one platform ! ..

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 04 Feb 2015 22:30

Barak 8 has a maximum range of 16 km (?). It needs something with longer range too.

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 04 Feb 2015 22:46

what happened to you , saab !!!!

The missile has maximum speed of Mach 2 with a maximum operational range of 70 km

flight ceiling is 16 km

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 04 Feb 2015 22:52

Barak-8 with booster will hopefully exceed 100 km for IAF.

John · Post by **John** » 04 Feb 2015 23:54

Shaun wrote:what happened to you , saab !!!!

The missile has maximum speed of Mach 2 with a maximum operational range of 70 km

flight ceiling is 16 km

I would take that information with grain of salt max speed and ceiling is unknown. Even the one close to legit comparison of various missiles puts MRSAM altitude at 20 km. MRSAM in terms of performance is between Aster 15 and 30 which were original Israeli requirements.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 05 Feb 2015 19:37

INS Kolkata fires Brahmos.

http://www.spsmai.com/exclusive/?id=216 ... NS-Kolkata

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 05 Feb 2015 19:40

Varunastra going through user evaluation trials successfully. Summer trials in April and final confirmatory trials before year end followed by induction.
http://www.spsmai.com/exclusive/?id=201 ... -more-soon

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 05 Feb 2015 19:40

I am mixing up to o much stuff. Anyhow:

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/indias-m ... eststories

India's Most-Advanced Warship to Get the Missiles That Were Missing

When the Indian Navy commissioned its most-advanced warship eight months ago, the INS Kolkata was missing its primary weapon system - the Barak 8 long range surface to air missiles, 32 of which were meant to be carried onboard in ready-to-fire mode. NDTV has learned that the Barak 8 missile has cleared all its tests and is ready for induction.

The missile, designed to intercept incoming anti-ship missiles at a range of at least 70 kilometres, has been made in partnership with Israel, where it has successfully completed trials, and will be refitted on the INS Kolkata in either April or May, said sources.

The missile will simultaneously be fitted on board the INS Kochi, the sister ship of the INS Kolkata, which will soon be commissioned and subsequently, on the last ship of the class, the INS Chennai.

The Barak 8, which has been co-developed with Israel, features an advanced target tracking system designed by an Israeli company, and a rocket motor built in India. The missile is being manufactured at Bharat Dynamics Limited, a government-owned enterprise based in Hyderabad that is also supplying the Army and Air Force with the indigenous Akash surface-to-air missile system.

.

So the anti-air system is not installed yet.
32 missiles means VLS ?
Propulsion is Indian, seeker and radar Israeli.
Akash and Barak 8 both being manufactured at same place.

shravanp · Post by **shravanp** » 05 Feb 2015 19:40

What a beauty. What differentiates the black smoke emission to push out Brahmos as opposed to Barak/SM3 that have huge flames emanating during the launch?

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 05 Feb 2015 19:42

Navy impressed with DRDO AUV during trials.
http://www.spsmai.com/exclusive/?id=165 ... ic-Vehicle

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 05 Feb 2015 20:32

John wrote:
Shaun wrote:what happened to you , saab !!!!

The missile has maximum speed of Mach 2 with a maximum operational range of 70 km

flight ceiling is 16 km
I would take that information with grain of salt max speed and ceiling is unknown. Even the one close to legit comparison of various missiles puts MRSAM altitude at 20 km. MRSAM in terms of performance is between Aster 15 and 30 which were original Israeli requirements.

I have doubt about its speed , must be more than mach3.5

John · Post by **John** » 05 Feb 2015 21:22

skekatpuray wrote:What a beauty. What differentiates the black smoke emission to push out Brahmos as opposed to Barak/SM3 that have huge flames emanating during the launch?

Barak and Barak-8 use hot launch where as Brahmos uses cold launch, latter is considered a bit risky if booster doesn't ignite (failed launch) you have 3 ton missile landing on top of the ship. But Brahmos is canisterized before its shipped from manufacturing facility to increase reliability and reduce maintenance and also there is some indication Brahmos would utilize some vertical thrusters to tilt the missile in case of such catastrophic failure. But that would bigger issues with missiles systems like Vl-shtil or other similar systems employed by Russia and China.
Added:

32 missiles means VLS ?

Yes new VLS system but it is unknown if it can dual or quad pack Barak-1 missiles'.

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 05 Feb 2015 21:23

Thakur_B wrote:Navy impressed with DRDO AUV during trials.
http://www.spsmai.com/exclusive/?id=165 ... ic-Vehicle

Wow! Brilliant. This page of the thread is full of wows. Jingo is very happy.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Feb 2015 08:23

Just to continue with the AUV . . .

SRM students win design contest - The Hindu

SRM University won the first position in the Fourth National Student Autonomous Underwater Vehicle Competition where participants had to conceptualise and design an autonomous underwater vehicle.

The competition was conducted by National Institute of Ocean Technology (NIOT), under the Ministry of Earth Sciences and organised by the by IEEE Oceanic Engineering Society and Ocean Society of India.

As many as 27 teams registered of which 14 teams submitted their Preliminary Design Reports (PDR).

These teams then submitted detailed Conceptual Design Reports and 10 teams were short-listed.

Finally, the contest was narrowed down to six teams who prepared their AUV.

After the successful demonstration to the national committee on January 24th at IIT-Madras, the committee selected SRM University team as the winner.

NIOT will sponsor the winning team to participate in the International Competition to be held at San Diego,in July.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Feb 2015 09:54

whenever I read of these contests which involve some physical engineering like putting together a device, mostly I see non-IIT places taking the lead. iits seem too busy cooking up the next e-commerce startup to have time for mechanical and electrical engg

in amrika, MIT is a big player in every such contest. they seem to have a long tradition in putting together such stuff.

member_20067 · Post by **member_20067** » 06 Feb 2015 10:16

Singha wrote:whenever I read of these contests which involve some physical engineering like putting together a device, mostly I see non-IIT places taking the lead. iits seem too busy cooking up the next e-commerce startup to have time for mechanical and electrical engg

in amrika, MIT is a big player in every such contest. they seem to have a long tradition in putting together such stuff.

IIT has a culture of vying for global glories as it carries more CV points..

during my mechanical engineering days at Jadavpur University-- I have seen labs working on Missile components in secured labs voluntarily ...but it was led mostly by the profs and phds..

RKumar · Post by **RKumar** » 06 Feb 2015 14:29

India's Dhanush Undergoes 1st Night Test

February 2, 2015: Kept under wraps so far, it is now known that the Indian Navy successfully test-fired the indigenously developed ship launched ballistic missile Dhanush on Nov 14 last year for the first time during the night from a warship INS Subhadra anchored about 45 km off the coast of Puri and Paradip in Odisha. Sources confirm the test was successful. The Dhanush is a ship-launched version of the Prithvi-II ballistic missile with a range of 350 km. The test was conducted from the INS Subhadra by the Strategic Forces Command (SFC). The Dhanush is capable of deploying a tactical nuclear warahead, in addition to conventional warheads deployed on the Prithvi series of missiles. Project Dhanush was sanctioned by the Indian Navy to integrate and demonstrate the feasibility of launching variant of Prithvi from a ship. The translation from the technology demonstrator to weaponisation configuration, and induction of the Dhanush weapon system was completed with the successful 'Acceptance Test Firing' conducted by the navy, and after achieving all the planned mission objectives. The salient features and achievements under the project include.

member_28640 · Post by **member_28640** » 06 Feb 2015 16:14

SSridhar wrote:Just to continue with the AUV . . .

SRM students win design contest - The Hindu
SRM University won the first position in the Fourth National Student Autonomous Underwater Vehicle Competition where participants had to conceptualise and design an autonomous underwater vehicle.

The competition was conducted by National Institute of Ocean Technology (NIOT), under the Ministry of Earth Sciences and organised by the by IEEE Oceanic Engineering Society and Ocean Society of India.

As many as 27 teams registered of which 14 teams submitted their Preliminary Design Reports (PDR).

These teams then submitted detailed Conceptual Design Reports and 10 teams were short-listed.

Finally, the contest was narrowed down to six teams who prepared their AUV.

After the successful demonstration to the national committee on January 24th at IIT-Madras, the committee selected SRM University team as the winner.

NIOT will sponsor the winning team to participate in the International Competition to be held at San Diego,in July.

Feel proud to have mentored this team ..

many of the students who have been trained by me in another project switched to this project . I'm not a teacher just a recent alumni
Also many teams from colleges from chennai have won this sponsorship from NIOT.
Sad to say you can find most of the past students who worked on such projects in companies like TCS etc where their talent is under utilized.
NIOT and Directorate of naval design should take steps to provide internships plus jobs for such talented students.

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 06 Feb 2015 17:59

RKumar wrote:India's Dhanush Undergoes 1st Night Test

I always wonder what is the purpose of this short legged missile . Are they perfecting ABM system , where shore based missile fired ,are targeted ???

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Feb 2015 18:53

Singha wrote:whenever I read of these contests which involve some physical engineering like putting together a device, mostly I see non-IIT places taking the lead. iits seem too busy cooking up the next e-commerce startup to have time for mechanical and electrical engg

in amrika, MIT is a big player in every such contest. they seem to have a long tradition in putting together such stuff.

Singha, at least in the case of the DRDO's AUV, I know IIT-Madras played a huge part.

Added later: How the heart of AUV was developed

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Feb 2015 18:57

RKumar wrote:India's Dhanush Undergoes 1st Night Test

The Dhanush is capable of deploying a tactical nuclear warahead . . . .

I am hearing the mention of TNWs for the first time.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 07 Feb 2015 04:49

SS saar, that could be a typo. what for will dhanush carry a TNW for? it was a limited ops system for navy to claim a place in triad structure till arihant got ready. with 350 km range it will basically be standard atom bomb. not some sub kt tactical device (not like navy will be lobbing 100's of dhanush's to support IA push even if we had a doctrine for that).

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 07 Feb 2015 15:56

Shaun wrote:
RKumar wrote:India's Dhanush Undergoes 1st Night Test
I always wonder what is the purpose of this short legged missile . Are they perfecting ABM system , where shore based missile fired ,are targeted ???

This should be for building SOPs for nuke delivery from sea.

ABM role firstly needs a good sensor suite. IMHO only Kolkata class destroyers may have that capability in the Navy. It needs to be checked.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Feb 2015 16:24

maybe its just a modern take on having battleships to pound the beach fortifications and inland staging areas ahead of a amphib landing...just lob a few small nukes to clear the way