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Defence officials pointed out that unlike West Bengal, neighbouring Assam had fully cooperated with the defence forces. IAF stations in Tezpur and Chhabua in Dibrugarh had been upgraded and bases for Sukhoi T-50 aircraft have been set up. The existing IAF stations in Jorhat and Mohanbari in Assam and Bagdogra and Hashimara in West Bengal are being modernised. At the Mountain Strike Corps headquarters (HQ) in Panagarh, an IAF station for C-130 J Super Hercules aircraft, which can fly troops and weapons very fast to the Sino-Indian border, has been built.
Russia and India are moving into the phase of constructing the first models of the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) with stealth capabilities, based on the Russian T-50 prototype jet, the deputy head of Russian state arms exporter Rosoboronexport said Tuesday.
“The agreements on the contract are currently at their final stages, which include the development of construction documentation, building the test models, trials, and certification,” Sergei Goreslavsky told RIA Novosti in an interview ahead of the Aero India-2015 exposition in Bangalore, India, that will open on February 18.
The first stage of the Russian-Indian project has already been finalized. The first test aircraft is scheduled to be created after 2018.
The Sukhoi T-50, or PAK FA, is the Russian Air Force’s first stealth fighter, designed to succeed the Sukhoi Su-27, as well as the Mikoyan MiG-29 fighter jets. The aircraft conducted its first test flight in 2010.
The FGFA, developed jointly by Russia’s Sukhoi and India’s Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, is a derivative from the T-50. Unlike the Russian version, the Indian version of the aircraft will be a two-seater
Defence officials pointed out that unlike West Bengal, neighbouring Assam had fully cooperated with the defence forces. IAF stations in Tezpur and Chhabua in Dibrugarh had been upgraded and bases for Sukhoi T-50 aircraft have been set up. The existing IAF stations in Jorhat and Mohanbari in Assam and Bagdogra and Hashimara in West Bengal are being modernised. At the Mountain Strike Corps headquarters (HQ) in Panagarh, an IAF station for C-130 J Super Hercules aircraft, which can fly troops and weapons very fast to the Sino-Indian border, has been built.
Faced with a dwindling fleet of fighter jets, India is pressing its military ally Russia for immediate delivery of the fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA).
New Delhi has suggested to Moscow that the T-50 fighter jet (being built as an FGFA) can be supplied to the Indian Air Force (IAF) while the research to improve upon the aircraft can carry on simultaneously. The same formula of graded improvements was applied in the case of Sukhoi-30 MkI jets.
Top government sources told The Tribune that Russians have been insisting on a $ 11-billion R&D contract for the FGFA project.
India, on its part, says since the plane is already flying, such a contract can be inked along with simultaneous deliveries of the plane to the IAF. Russia is yet to decide on India’s request.
Bulk deliveries of the T-50 jet for Russian forces will commence in 2016. India wants Russia to deliver 144 jets. Russian go-ahead will give the IAF necessary number of planes to phase out ageing MiG-21s and MiG-27s. In a war scenario with China, an aircraft such as the T-50 would be ideal for missions deep into Tibet. Beijing has a very good border infrastructure that poses threat to India.
Indications of a breakthrough in the deadlock over FFGA deal had come at the just-concluded Aero-India. Both sides separately acknowledged they were close to finalising the T-50 deal for the PAK-FA (Prospective Airborne Complex of Frontline Aviation) programme being run by Russia.
IAF Chief Air Chief Marshall Arup Raha had last week said: “The future belongs to fifth-generation fighters. Pending issues with Russia will be resolved soon and we will have a compressed timeline for deliveries”.
From the Russian side, the state-owned United Aircraft Corporation's (UAC) president Yuri Slyusar had said: “The Russian and Indian parties have reached a consensus on the work share of each party”.
The last few article do not seem to be a printing/editing mistake. There is another possibility; That this is deliberately being *manufactured* to put pressure on the French.
Saurav Jha @SJha1618 3m3 minutes ago
New glide path - some Su-50 MKI, then full blown FGFA, then Russkis adopt FGFA. Then improved FGFA for both India & Russia post 2028.
Seems to suggest the FGFA will follow the Su-30 MKI path. Perhaps Su-50 will start appearing in India by 2018. If that is the plan where does it leave the Rafale?
Saurav Jha @SJha1618 22m22 minutes ago
The matter is simple. Commence deliveries of the Su-50 to India concurrently with deliveries to the RuAF. And then send them to NE bases.
Saurav Jha @SJha1618 21m21 minutes ago
Border infra, new EW systems, Agni-V, K-4, early Su-50 deliveries. The grounds for detente with China are being put in place.
I, for once, do not see these as "manufactured" or "planted".
I think they are part of a larger, studied, serious plan. IF we were to see any reduction from the 55-by-2020 for the RuAF, I would take this *far* more seriously.
The situation actually plays very well into the hands of the Russians. Why Rafale, when we have the FGFA? Is there a comparison?
It also plays very well for India - provided most of the Indian points/demands are met. From a Russian point of view, it is managing Indian expectations - what to share. IF they feel it is worth the price of the two French ship + some, then it is a huge deal for Russia.
India is going to play coy and enjoy this ride.
The Rafale better come in at $11 billion or less. Perhaps the owner of Dassault better sell the company ........................ to India?
So IAF is okay with incremental upgrades to Russian planes to ensure fast induction, but want Tejas to be Mark 2 with everything ready for battle. Mysterious indeed are the ways of men in uniform.
jamwal wrote:So IAF is okay with incremental upgrades to Russian planes to ensure fast induction, but want Tejas to be Mark 2 with everything ready for battle. Mysterious indeed are the ways of men in uniform.
....
The Rafale better come in at $11 billion or less. Perhaps the owner of Dassault better sell the company ........................ to India?
When Tata bought JLR, one of the stipulations by the BritGov (lender to JLR) was that 'proprietary tech' and trade secrets could not be exported to India. Buying Dassault would merely lead to subsidizing the workers' lifestyles.
The situation actually plays very well into the hands of the Russians. Why Rafale, when we have the FGFA? Is there a comparison?
It is not fault of Russians. Just as it is not fault of Americans that USSR collapsed, and suffered temporary industrial setback, and Indians were to purchase transport planes a decade later. It is obvious that any 4.5Gen+ can not compete with ANY 5th Gen fighter jet, and Indians just may get PAK/FA sooner that expected, as also FGFA later on, as per last few messages.
Last edited by vishvak on 24 Feb 2015 20:55, edited 1 time in total.
jamwal wrote:So IAF is okay with incremental upgrades to Russian planes to ensure fast induction, but want Tejas to be Mark 2 with everything ready for battle. Mysterious indeed are the ways of men in uniform.
Aren't they doing pretty much exactly the same thing with the LCA? Order an initial batch of 40 and then a bunch more.
Let us wait for more clarity on T-50 and FGFA saga; too often we tend to hyperventilate basis one snippet here or there; Lot of things don't make sense with the proposal of induction of T-50 now and wait for FGFA till post 2025 period.
....
The Rafale better come in at $11 billion or less. Perhaps the owner of Dassault better sell the company ........................ to India?
When Tata bought JLR, one of the stipulations by the BritGov (lender to JLR) was that 'proprietary tech' and trade secrets could not be exported to India. Buying Dassault would merely lead to subsidizing the workers' lifestyles.
Off tropic, TATA declined any state assistance due to conditionalities. Else, do you have a reference for the above?
CM sahib, there is a big difference in IPR, patents, and ownership. IAF can make mince meat of DRDO if it wants, and but can't do the same with the Russians if they want to. IAF can suck the last brain juice within DRDO to extract exactly what they want. The only issues are management, and lifecycle corrections. rest is all getting into good shape.
staged, process driven and phased delivery will make LCA and other home grown FGFAs more manageable and potent for IAF.
After three years of gridlock, India and Russia may soon hammer out a final design agreement for the joint Fifth-Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) program. The defense ministers of both countries met in January and agreed to try to complete a draft agreement before Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi visits Russia in July, the first of two visits to the country planned this year, according to top Indian defense ministry officials. “It has been communicated at the highest levels that India and Russia need to have something to show for the program this year,” says an Indian defense ministry official. But crucial issues remain to be resolved.
Father Russia already starts milking India of Money, In other news a Defense electronics consortia have "Already started working" on the FGFA.. Is it something to read between the lines?
KRET is developing the onboard systems for the FGFA (Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft) for the Indian Air Force
Read in full, They are also upgrading avionics on multiple russian platforms. Clicky
NEW DELHI: Faced with continuing deadlock in the mega deal to acquire 126 French Rafale fighters, India is now pressing the throttle to seal the even bigger project with Russia for the stealth fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA).
India has told Russia it wants deliveries of the FGFA to begin in 36 months after the main contract is inked, instead of the 94 months envisaged earlier, top defence sources said.
With this "accelerated delivery timeframe" becoming the main objective, India is ready to forego the earlier plan for a 50:50 design and work-share agreement with Russia on its under-development FGFA called PAK-FA or Sukhoi T-50.
India is also no longer insisting that all the single-seat stealth fighters required by IAF be built in India by defence PSU Hindustan Aeronautics at its Ozar facility. "We have agreed to a lesser work-share for a realistic contract, with the initial lot of the FGFA being imported and the rest being made here under technology transfer," said a source.
"Like for the Russian Sukhoi-30MKI fighters (majority of the 272 Sukhois contracted for $12 billion are being made by HAL), the curve in technology absorption will also be steep in the FGFA project," he added.
Faced with a sharp decline in the number of fighter squadrons in IAF, India wants to fast-track the FGFA project under which its "perspective multi-role fighter" will be based on PAK-FA but tweaked to its requirements.
The final FGFA design contract has been hanging fire since India and Russia completed their initial work under the $295 million preliminary design contract signed in December 2010. India will overall spend around $25 billion on the FGFA project if it goes ahead with its plan to induct 127 such fighters, as earlier reported by TOI.
All this has gained urgency since India feels French aviation major Dassault is being needlessly intransigent over the pricing mechanism in the final negotiations for the over $20 billion MMRCA (medium multi-role combat aircraft) project. Under it, the first 18 Rafale fighters were to be delivered off-the-shelf, with the remaining 108 being produced in India.
"But Dassault's costing for the 108 Rafales to be built by HAL has undergone a major hike. It amounts to changing the price line that led to Rafale's selection over Eurofighter Typhoon as the L-1 (lowest bidder) in the MMRCA competition," said the source.
"The MoD simply cannot sign the contract if the L-1 price is altered. Dassault should relent and stick to its commercial bid submitted in response to the original RFP (request for proposal)," he added.
Both sides are furiously working to break the deadlock since India wants to take a final call on the MMRCA project before Prime Minister Narendra Modi visits France in early-April, as earlier reported by TOI.
^^^ ToI article. All the signs of envelope pushing.
"India has told Russia it wants deliveries of the FGFA to begin in 36 months after the main contract is inked, instead of the 94 months envisaged earlier, top defence sources said."
Yes, sure Boss, just sign here and give me a check for 50% down. Really easy if we pull a few all nighters and we will...for you. We are here to serve.
Just give them the down payment, sign the contract and then see those 36 months easily stretch even beyond the 94 Months.
In desperation now we will give hard cash to bankroll further development of T-50 while getting zilch share in development and watered down TOT benefits. We are born suckers!!!!!
Offer the Russians an unbelievable deal, get some planes, then copy them and scrap the rest of the deal. Be like the Chinese, screw the Russians before they can screw you.
Be like the Chinese, screw the Russians before they can screw you.
Unfortunately the Chinese have gone beyond copy paste now and the Russians are willing to look the other way when the Chinese come a calling. The Chinese with their own level of domestic programs have leverage over the Russians.
With Us we have never gone beyond Copy Paste and will always end up with a begging bowl at The Bears doorstep. Dont think we can screw anybody.
Be like the Chinese, screw the Russians before they can screw you.
Unfortunately the Chinese have gone beyond copy paste now and the Russians are willing to look the other way when the Chinese come a calling. The Chinese with their own level of domestic programs have leverage over the Russians.
With Us we have never gone beyond Copy Paste and will always end up with a begging bowl at The Bears doorstep. Dont think we can screw anybody.
So the precedent is there, copy paste and scrap the deal...the Ruskis will look the other way when you are in the market again.
There we go again about JSF in FGFA thread. The ship of appreciating co-operation on Su-30MKI project seems to have sailed off for Amerigo fanbois - or more appropriately, flown away. But then, scrapping FGFA idea has to be followed by assemble JSF only , afterall that is the only 5G fighter jet in the market. My only concern is, why don't we deal with that in JSF thread (including, and not limited to, "fundamental" procurement contract, possible Chinese espionage, inspections, lifecycle costs, additional weapons deals, Naval version scope, intrusive inspection clauses, etc etc), instead of cancel FGFA + assemble JSF messages on this thread followed by message of moderators to back off, yet again!
^^^ It's a joke. Just like the whole FGFA/PAK/FA saga. The reported Indian 'directive' to the Russians to speedup deliveries is also ludicrous. As if the a/c is ready.
vishvak wrote:There we go again about JSF in FGFA thread. The ship of appreciating co-operation on Su-30MKI project seems to have sailed off for Amerigo fanbois - or more appropriately, flown away. But then, scrapping FGFA idea has to be followed by assemble JSF only , afterall that is the only 5G fighter jet in the market. My only concern is, why don't we deal with that in JSF thread (including, and not limited to, "fundamental" procurement contract, possible Chinese espionage, inspections, lifecycle costs, additional weapons deals, Naval version scope, intrusive inspection clauses, etc etc), instead of cancel FGFA + assemble JSF messages on this thread followed by message of moderators to back off, yet again!
Ironically if we go by the 'model of co-operation' that is the Su-30MKI project (notwithstanding MRO/serviceability issues), all 144 FGFAs (should really call them PAK FAs) will be kit assembled in India.
, afterall that is the only 5G fighter jet in the market. My only concern is, why don't we deal with that in JSF thread (including, and not limited to, "fundamental" procurement contract, possible Chinese espionage, inspections, lifecycle costs, additional weapons deals, Naval version scope, intrusive inspection clauses, etc etc), instead of cancel FGFA + assemble JSF messages on this thread followed by message of moderators to back off, yet again!