Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 09 Mar 2015 22:48

Nuclear Capable Missile Successfully Test-Fired in Pakistan

Pakistan successfully conducted a test launch of the surface-to-surface ballistic missile called Shaheen- III, which is capable of carrying nuclear and conventional warheads to a range of 2,750 kilometers.

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 10 Mar 2015 00:55

Did it even fly 1000 km? Most likely Shaheen-2 with lower payload.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Mar 2015 06:53

yes that range does not map to a known chinese missile's stated specs. the DF21 is around 1700km.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 10 Mar 2015 09:27

They probably flew in energy efficient trajectory to get a full range , range is something very hard to find as one can get different range for various trajectory and the payload weight also matters.

There were some earlier news report that mentioned S-3 would have a range of 4500 km

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 11 Mar 2015 23:11

Looks like the bankrolling of Sunni Nuke will be now put to good use by Saudi

Saudi Arabia prepares for Iran nuclear deal

Riyadh's most crucial ally is Pakistan, the only Muslim nuclear weapons state. Last year, for the first time, the Saudis publicly displayed their vintage Chinese-made intermediate-range ballistic missiles — the only ones they have that can reach Tehran — at a military parade. In the reviewing stands was Pakistani Chief of Army Staff Gen. Rahul Sharif, the man who controls Pakistan's nuclear arsenal. It is the fastest growing nuclear arsenal in the world, and the Saudis have been helping to pay for its development since the 1970s. It was a very calculated signal.

Salman, in late February, summoned the Pakistani prime minister, Nawaz Sharif, to Riyadh. The highly unusual and urgent public invitation was linked in the Pakistani press to "strategic cooperation" against Iran. Salman visited Islamabad a year ago as crown prince and gave Sharif a $1.5 billion grant to reaffirm the Saudi-Pakistani strategic accord. Sharif spent three days in the kingdom last week in response to the king's invitation. He received a royal reception.

One immediate result of the talks is a plan for Pakistan to move its embassy in Yemen to Aden.

The speculation in Islamabad is that the king sought assurances from Sharif that, if the Iran negotiations produce either a bad deal or no deal, Pakistan will live up to its longstanding commitment to Saudi security. That is understood in Riyadh and Islamabad to include a nuclear dimension.

Sharif also visited the kingdom in January of this year. He was apparently told that then-King Abdullah bin Abdulaziz Al Saud was at death's door, and Sharif came to pay his respects and meet with Salman before the king died. No other leader was given this advance notice — another sign of the critical importance of the Saudi-Pakistani axis.

The exact details of what the Pakistani nuclear commitment to the kingdom includes is, of course, among the most closely held secrets of our world. Both Riyadh and Islamabad prefer to maintain ambiguity and deniability.

The Saudis have not given up on Obama; the United States is still their oldest ally. Washington is too important to irritate with speeches. The Saudis prefer a more subtle approach.

Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/origina ... z3U6SM76TJ

A Sharma · Post by **A Sharma** » 13 Mar 2015 21:28

Pakistan successfully tests first indigenous armed drone

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 13 Mar 2015 22:04

A Sharma wrote:Pakistan successfully tests first indigenous armed drone

Displayed a few years back at a Chinese defence stand ....

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 13 Mar 2015 22:20

^^^Well we know frn where they source all their tech.

But fact that they are producing it in house is a real concern, with its own guided munition.

And fact that we are still yrs away from this tech is not comforting anyway.

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 13 Mar 2015 23:00

They are not producing anything just assembling them.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 13 Mar 2015 23:32

^^ They may as well be producing from CKD kits, but how does that matter?

We also produce MKI, but it does not make it any less lethal!!

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 13 Mar 2015 23:50

Because these are for their so called zarb-e-zamzam. Against IA they will not last very long.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 13 Mar 2015 23:55

Thats something we can only speculate.

These can be employed effectively in LOC against IA and IA is not equipped to takedown these UCAVs. They can be pressed into service to provide cover for infiltration bids.

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 14 Mar 2015 00:02

True recon capability is what is worrying and not the capability to fire something. IA needs the SRSAM or equivalent to take these out easily. Though I would rather we take out the staging areas instead, even if it means being first to heat up LOC.

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 14 Mar 2015 00:42

missing the green paint

specs
CH-3 medium-sized wheeled landing UAV can be used with different payloads for battlefield reconnaissance, data relay, intelligence and electronic warfare. Cruising altitude of 5000m, a cruising speed of 220km / h, the operating radius of 200km, maximum life time 12h, the maximum takeoff weight 630kg, the biggest task load 100kg.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 14 Mar 2015 05:37

Sid wrote:^^^Well we know frn where they source all their tech.

But fact that they are producing it in house is a real concern, with its own guided munition.

And fact that we are still yrs away from this tech is not comforting anyway.

Not only that. When India start producing imported tech we keep on importing some components for 20-30 years. When Pakistan produces imported tech they produce 100% of components from the first day and even start exporting soon. Technically Pakistanis are more capable than Indians - which is clearly visible in any field one might care to look at. This is something that Pakistanis keep saying and I think we agree on that count.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 Mar 2015 08:01

It looks like rustom1.
Rutanji has admirers in cheen also

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 14 Mar 2015 14:57

IIRC, that Burt-sir inspired bird is made from virginal aluminum ingots by Dr Samar Mubarkhmand's fine org, NESCOM. That alone should make us all dhoti-shiber and hope those cigar-size mijjiles dont get us before the drone crashes into our lap.

(Samar-sir have some fine wiki-editors, who make Denel look like the low class chors they probably are. Stealing H-SOW and renaming it as "Darter" et al is uber-low, Denel)

ravip · Post by **ravip** » 14 Mar 2015 20:24

Seems to be on a suicide mission like their manned counterparts.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 15 Mar 2015 07:28

The first thing they do once they get a dlone is to put two mijjiles on them!!!

I am 400% sure that all the people killed in Waziristan have been killed by Pak Fauj with this dlone and its two mijjiles.

We were blaming the Amreekans for no reason, when it was ISI who was killing everyone, including baitulla mehsood with dlone and cheeni mijjile tecknolowji

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 15 Mar 2015 13:07

These UAVs and that picture has made it to the front page of the Wash Post!!!!!

arun · Post by **arun** » 15 Mar 2015 14:01

X Posted from the STFUP thread.

New interpretation of the “Jihad in the Path of Allah” part of the motto of Faith, Piety and Jihad in the Path of Allah” or in Urdu “Iman, Taqwa, Jihad fi Sabil Allah” of the Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

Cost of the Uniformed Jihadi’s of the Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan providing security from the depredations of Un-uniformed Jihadi’s to personnel from Deeper than Oceans, Higher than Himalayas, Sweeter than Honey, Iron Brother People’s Republic of China to be debited power generators.

Next uniformed Jihadi’s of the Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan debiting civilians residing on the Islamic Republic’s international border with India for security?

Looks like a fudge to fool international lenders on the actual size of the defence budget and a gambit to keep the Unformed Jihadis in Imperial Mughal splendour at the expense of Pakistani civilians:

Power projects: Security to foreign workers, cost to consumers

nikhil_p · Post by **nikhil_p** » 15 Mar 2015 15:03

ravip wrote:

Seems to be on a suicide mission like their manned counterparts.

In this picture - the Mijjile on left (of pic) and right of pic seem to be facing opposite directions!

arun · Post by **arun** » 15 Mar 2015 16:23

Aditya G wrote:
A Sharma wrote:Pakistan successfully tests first indigenous armed drone
Displayed a few years back at a Chinese defence stand ....

Popular Science article by Kelsey D. Atherton dated yesterday points out that the “The Burraq bears a strong resemblance to China’s CH-3 drone, with forward canards, a pusher propeller, and long, back-sloping wings.”:

Pakistan's Armed Drone Successfully Test Fires A Laser-Guided Missile

Earlier (Jan 2014) the IISS blog carried an article by Douglas Barrie pointing out the resemblance of the Burraq to the CH3:

Douglas Barrie: Pakistan’s new UAVs - origins in doubt

........................ The claim that Burraq and Shahpar are solely the products of Pakistan’s defence aerospace industry should, however, be treated with caution. The Burraq and the Shahpar resemble the Chinese CH-3 UAV. ......................

arun · Post by **arun** » 15 Mar 2015 16:33

ravip wrote:

Seems to be on a suicide mission like their manned counterparts.

Certainly looks very likely that was a practise run for a Mohammadden Jihad Martydom operation in Pakistan service given that Popular Science thinks that picture is of the CH-3 (aka Burraq?) UAV / UCAV armed with the AR-1 (aka Barq?) missile. Posts the identical picture with the caption “This January 25, 2015 photo appears to show a Chinese made CH-3 drone, owned by Nigeria, which has crash landed upside down. The two AR-1 ATGMs attached to its wing pylons suggest that Nigeria is turning to drone strikes as the bloody war against Boko Haram continues”:

Did An Armed Chinese-Made Drone Just Crash in Nigeria? : CH-3 UCAVs Join War Against Boko Haram

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 15 Mar 2015 22:43

Sid wrote:Thats something we can only speculate.

These can be employed effectively in LOC against IA and IA is not equipped to takedown these UCAVs. They can be pressed into service to provide cover for infiltration bids.

you are talking through your hat. these UAVs are very vulnerable to MANPADS or even ack ack.

against conventional forces they are toast.

they are more of use against lightly armed Taliban and those without access to modern weaponry.

arun · Post by **arun** » 16 Mar 2015 20:46

X Posted from the “Oppression of Minorities In Pakistan” thread.

Uniformed Jihadi’s of the Punjabi dominated Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan carry out extra judicial executions of Pathan / Pashtun civilians detained by them:

Thirteen bodies found in Pakistan were detainees of army – residents

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 25 Mar 2015 04:10

Pakistan Says Short-Range Nukes Needed to Deter India

Washington: Pakistan needs short-range "tactical" nuclear weapons to deter archrival India, a top adviser to its government said Monday, dismissing concerns it could increase the risk of a nuclear war.

Khalid Kidwai also rejected concerns over the security of Pakistan's nuclear arsenal, insisting that adequate safeguards are in place to protect what analysts have described as the world's fastest-growing atomic arsenal.

Pakistan's development of smaller warheads built for use on battlefields, in addition to longer-range weapons, has increased international concerns that they could get into rogue hands because of the pervasive threat of Islamic militants in the country.

Pakistan and its larger neighbor India have fought three wars. They have held on-off peace talks over the years but are involved in a nuclear and missile arms race that shows no sign of abating.

Neither side discloses the size of its arsenal. But a recent report by the Council on Foreign Relations think tank estimated that Pakistan has enough fissile material to produce between 110 and 120 nuclear weapons, and India enough for 90 to 110 weapons.

For 15 years, Kidwai led the administration of Pakistan's nuclear and missile weapons program. He now serves as an adviser to the National Command Authority, a committee of the top civilian and military leaders that sets the country's nuclear weapons policy. He spoke Monday at a conference on nuclear security organized by the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace in Washington.

On the sidelines of the conference, Rakesh Sood, former Indian special envoy for disarmament and nonproliferation, said it was "extremely destabilizing for any country to develop tactical nuclear weapons" and that India has no plans to. He contended that Pakistan's nuclear doctrine is "cloaked in ambiguity" which undermines confidence between the two countries.

Kidwai said nuclear deterrence had helped prevent war in South Asia. He said Pakistan's development of tactical weapons – in the form of the Nasr missile, which has a 37-mile (60-kilometer) range – was in response to concerns that India's larger military could still wage a conventional war against the country, thinking Pakistan would not risk retaliation with a bigger nuclear weapon.

Peter Lavoy, a former senior U.S. defense official, questioned whether such intermingling of conventional forces and nuclear weapons in a battlefield could increase the risk of nuclear war.

Kidwai replied that having tactical weapons would make war less likely.

He said given the strength of the rest of Pakistan's nuclear arsenal, the fear of "mutually assured destruction" of the South Asian rivals would ensure that "sanity prevails."

At the other end of Pakistan's missile inventory is the Shaheen-III missile that it test-fired this month. It has a range of 1,700 miles (2,750 kilometers), giving it the capability to reach every part of India – but also potentially to reach into the Middle East, including Israel.

Kidwai said Pakistan wanted a missile of that range because it suspected India was developing strategic bases on its Andaman and Nicobar islands in the Bay of Bengal. He said the nuclear and missile program was "India-specific" and not aimed at other countries.

India and Pakistan have not fought a major conflict since 1999, when Pakistani military infiltrated into an Indian-held area of disputed Kashmir called Kargil, sparking fighting that left hundreds dead on both sides. Tensions, however, have sometimes escalated dangerously since then. In 2008, Pakistan-based militants attacked India's commercial hub of Mumbai, killing 164 people.

nits · Post by **nits** » 26 Mar 2015 12:56

Myanmar signs deal to buy Thunder fighter from Pakistan

Though four Chinese civilians were killed by bombs dropped by MiG-29 fighters of the Myanmar Air Force, sources from Pakistan’s Ministry of Defense said that a contract had been signed for Islamabad to sell the JF-17 Thunder multirole fighter, also known as the FC-1 Xiaolong, which was jointly developed by Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group and Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, to Naypyidaw, Islamabad’s Capital Television reported on March 18.

The report said various countries including Nigeria, Bangladesh, Tajikistan and Myanmar had shown great interest in purchasing the fighter from Pakistan because its price is much cheaper than other fighter jets of the same class such as the F-16 and the Eurofighter. Myanmar demonstrated its interest in the fighter back in June 2014, according to the the Myanmar Times.

Myanmar also wants to build a production line with the assistance of China and Pakistan to build the fighter for itself. Thanks to previous cooperation with China, Myanmar already has experience in producing Chinese aircraft such as the J-7 fighter or Q-5 attacker.

The purchase of the Thunder has not yet been confirmed by government officials in Mayamar. Pakistan is pushing hard to sell the fighter to foreign markets but none of the countries mentioned above has yet made a decision.

Not sure how authentic it is? wish LCA would have got FOC few years back and we could have exported it by now... But Wet Dreams

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 26 Mar 2015 15:56

Wonder why TTP does not attack the puli airforce / aircraft assembly plants?

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 26 Mar 2015 18:16

nits wrote:....wish LCA would have got FOC few years back and we could have exported it by now... But Wet Dreams

LCA and JF-17 do not address the same markets. The latter is a 1:1 modern replacement of F-7s and MiG-21s type aircraft. In fact the lack of JF-17 export success is more surprising.

We have attempted something at a higher segment with the LCA

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 26 Mar 2015 19:26

We could perhaps have base level 'LCA export' version for such Customers

We could even offer tranche upgrades in the future

The money coming in could certainly be put to good use here for our projects and requirements

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 26 Mar 2015 21:28

wish LCA would have got FOC few years back and we could have exported it by now

We are wishing a lot, are we not? The world human rights circus would have started to flip guilt of all kind and thrown tantrums because of some riots (Rohingyas?), even as we have given refugee status to Rohingyas - and not Pakistan/US/China or even another Muslim country Bangla.

But since Pakistan is selling the jet so the world human right bodies are in radio silence mode; the USA President is silent too just as Chinese are - since Pakis are their own terrorist munnas with no human rights to talk about; and so are our own media houses within.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 27 Mar 2015 10:30

Analysis: Pakistan's 'indigenous' UAV, missiles may not be as homegrown as claimed

The Pakistan Army announced on 13 March that it had successfully fired the indigenous Barq laser-guided missile from a NESCOM Burraq unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV).
Initial analysis of a video of the missile firings released by the Inter Services Public Relations (ISPR) agency suggests a striking resemblance of the reportedly indigenous Burraq UAV to the China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation (CASC) CH-3 UAV. IHS Jane's reported in 2010 that China was preparing to deliver 20 CH-3s, along with the CASC FT-5 65 kg-class 'small diameter bomb', to Pakistan in 2011.
Further analysis of the video has shown that not only is the provenance of the UAV questionable, but also that of missile and the validity of the firings.
Close analysis of the release imagery suggests that the 'indigenous' Barq is a China Academy of Launch Vehicle Technology (CALT) AR-1 laser-guided missile, or at least a licensed and locally manufactured version of this missile.
The AR-1 missile can best be described as a modernised version of the United States' AGM-114 Hellfire missile. The AR-1 is slightly shorter and was developed in the late 2000s specifically as an UAV-optimised design. Like the Hellfire, it is a semi-active laser (SAL) guided missile, although its wide field-of-regard, downwards-angled seeker has been optimised for close air-support operations from high flying UAVs.
Although primarily armed with an anti-armour (tandem shaped charge) warhead, the AR-1 warhead system is modular and so can be fitted with warheads that are more suitable for counter-insurgency (COIN) operations - the role that Pakistani officials identified for the Barq.
Like the AR-1 the Barq missile shown being fired from the Barruq in the ISPR video has a spherically blunted ogival nose, a cylindrical body and tail. The nose has an offset (downwards-biased) transparent seeker window, while the base of the tail is flat with a single centrally positioned nozzle.
Attached near the rear are four low-aspect ratio swept wings, and sitting a short distance behind these are four smaller trapezoidal control fins; both groups are set in an X configuration. Two short harness covers sit on the under surface of the missile, one between the nose and the precursor charge and one between the wing's leading edges and control section. Two launch shoes are present of the upper surface, one in front of and one behind the main warhead notification band.
In addition, while the ISPR video is edited to suggest two firings of the missile, analysis suggests that at least three separate tests have taken place.
The first is of an inert missile (denoted by the two blue bands, one over each of the warhead positions) fired from the Burraq and striking a moving plastic-covered target.
The second test shows a missile striking a smaller inclined target, an array of mannequins and fragmentation pattern target boards arranged around the expected impact point. From the size of the fireball and damage to the target, it would suggest only the precursor charge of the tandem warhead system was live in this test, or this was a low-collateral damage warhead.
The final test shows what is thought to be a completely live missile striking the moving target, with the fireball approximately three times the size (and nine times the volume) of the second test explosion.
It would also seem that Pakistan is not the only user of both the Burraq/CH-3 or the Barq/AR-1. On 28 January IHS Jane's reported on a suspected Nigerian CH-3, which had crashed in the northeastern state of Borno. This was armed with one AR-1 and one Fei Teng 5 (FT-5) guided bomb.

arun · Post by **arun** » 29 Mar 2015 10:14

X Posted from the STFUP thread.

Hypocrisy of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan highlighted. Jerusalem Post points out that after years of complaining about US drone strikes, the Punjabi Dominated Uniformed Jihadi’s of the Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan has embraced them in the battle to against Ununiformed Jihadi’s to determine who is the more pure and more green adherent of Mohammaddenism:

Analysis: Pakistan sings new song on drones now that it, not US, is using them

As new drone club members may cease to criticize and even copy US tactics, human rights critics may shift their criticism from the US to the new drone users.

After years of slamming the US for using drones in targeted killings on its soil in which civilians died as collateral damage, Pakistan announced on March 13 that its own drone fleet is now doing the same.

Of course, Pakistan would present distinctions.

It would say it is using drones in mountainous regions to attack terrorists who otherwise are unreachable and where civilians are less likely to be present – and in any case the battle relates to its territory and its civilians.

Pakistan would say it needed a harsh response to a direct and vicious Taliban terrorist attack that slaughtering more than 100 Pakistani children in December.

In contrast, it would say that US drone attacks on al-Qaida or other terrorist members have a much more tenuous connection to self-defense and are operating in foreign territory and against foreign civilians (Pakistan’s).

But make no mistake about it. Pakistan’s less-sophisticated drones are likely to kill, as collateral damage, as many or more civilians as US drones.

So what justifies Pakistan’s seeming double-standard? Part of the answer is that Pakistan’s objection to the US’s use of drones was always less about morality and more an expression of wanting to control the use of force in its territory.

The US regularly justifies drone strikes saying that they actually save civilians lives – being more exact in targeting than manned airplanes.

In contrast, Pakistan justified its new drone fleet as an issue of saving costs in that keeping drones in the air is far cheaper than keeping manned aircraft flying.

It did not mention the issue of casualties.

One human rights critic of both the US and Pakistan told The New Yorker in an extensive article on the issue that Pakistani intelligence over the years may even have intentionally given faulty intelligence to the US on some drone strikes to set the US up for an embarrassment (killing civilians who Pakistan told it were terrorists).

Yet part of the answer still likely relates to Pakistan’s finally understanding the violence the US was coping with when it was fighting the Taliban on Pakistan’s behalf.

In that sense, Pakistan’s joining the list of countries using attack drones (and possibly up to 23 other countries trying to join the list) probably signals more of a break between two groups of critics of the US who coincided on the issue until now, than it does a complete end to criticism.

Many countries that criticized US drone use may now decide that it is simply too necessary in fighting hard-to-find terrorists and too powerful a weapon to forgo. …………………………..

Mention in the Jerusalem Post article that “Pakistani intelligence over the years may even have intentionally given faulty intelligence to the US on some drone strikes to set the US up for an embarrassment” is a reference to an November 24 New Yorker article by Steve Coll titled “The Unblinking Stare : The drone war in Pakistan” (Clicky) where he cites a lawyer from the Islamic Republic named Mirza Shahzad Akbar :

…………………. Collecting target information from the sky is difficult; so is gathering information from a semi-hostile partner on the ground, like I.S.I. Akbar wondered aloud if I.S.I., to discredit the United States in the eyes of Pakistanis and the world, might “sometimes give the C.I.A. false targeting information.” ……………………….

The Jerusalem Post article is available here:

Pakistan sings new song on drones now that it, not US, is using them

kancha · Post by **kancha** » 29 Mar 2015 18:18

Lt Col Tahir Azeem commanding a sigs unit at Rawalpindi, shot dead by motorcycle borne men while on a visit in Peshawar.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 01 Apr 2015 16:12

Govt. endorses summary to get 8 submarines from China- Defence Committee told

ISLAMABAD: Naval officials informed the Standing Committee on Defence Monday that the federal government has endorsed a summary to get eight submarines from China.

..

The officials also said that the national security committee will give the final nod to go ahead with the plan to get eight submarines from China.

"Other proposals are under consideration as well. The Pakistan navy is also in touch with Germany, Britain and France to purchase used submarines," officials informed the committee.

Keeping in view the level of threat and the present status of submarines, naval officials said Pakistan needed the latest submarines.

The naval officials also revealed that France had refused to provide submarines to Pakistan.

They said there seemed to be various reasons behind France's refusal to sell submarines to Pakistan — including an issue of technology transfer. On the other hand, they said France was selling its submarines to India.
..

So much for the popular opinion that the French would sell their own mothers for money..

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 01 Apr 2015 18:17

Pakis had broken the bones of a few French workers over non payment of commission for Augusta submarines... Otherwise they would not have a problem selling again to the Pakis...

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 01 Apr 2015 18:49

Over the last 1 year I have been noticing

1. Pakis have since the 90's wanted a missile over 2000KM, especially since A-II launches, till recently even after A-5 test in 2012 they could only fire Shaheen -1A DF-15's over 670 odd KM, but recently over the last 6 months they have acquired Shaheen II(DF-21) missiles, this is major threshold as they can much of the GCC states, this purchase would have been funded by Saudis and would have needed tacital approval of USA

2. Jordan has donated an additional squadron of F-16's.

3. Saudis have given USD 1.5 Billion as a gift

These developments seem to indicate Pakis are aldready committed to operations in ME, it is just that timing will be announced int he near future.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 01 Apr 2015 19:14

Around 10 to 20 percent of Pakistan being Shia, and Iran is next door.
If Pakistanis get involved in Yemen, then expect their Shia brothers to do the needful.
Iran is no pushover. The Saudis are trying to break their complete encirclement by Iran.

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 01 Apr 2015 19:17

Its not DF-21 its just paki engineers reducing payload on shaeen-2 and claiming an untested range.