West Asia News and Discussions (YEMEN, gulf)

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menon s
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by menon s »

THOUGHT THIS WOULD RELEVANT AT THIS DAY AND AGE.
letter from Yazdgird III (632 AD - 651 AD)

The original copy of this letter from Yazdgird III (632 AD - 651 AD) is in Museum of London, We hope one day we can buy it from British who originally took it from us! It is our patriotic duty to poses this valuable asset. The date in which this letter has been written is after the Battle of Ghadesiyeh. As you know, a natural disaster, a massive sand storm blown on Persian troops & practically blinded them & took their battle vision. the sand storm directly blown on their front & caused the loss of this battle.

Later on Muslim Khalif mentioned that Allah sent the massive Sand Storm in Persian Faces, so they lost the battle, Allah was the protector of Muslim against Ajams (what Arabs call Persians, meaning retarded). Battle of Ghadesiyeh did not just cost us a great loss due to a natural disaster, yet it also cost us the life of our greatest Persian Hero, Commander in Chief of Persian Army, General Arteshbod "Rostam-e Farokhzad." Tazis killed Rostam in this battle. Rostam & his squad fought until the last drop of their blood & at the end even after he lost his sword, he fought Arabs with bare hand & his shield, Rostam & his selected squad killed as many Tazi as they could, yet finally it was destiny for our hero to die for Iran. Tazi savages rushed & attacked him in all directions & killed that great Persian soul, Ahura Bless his soul, Rostam was the symbol of Persian Empire & Iranian Glory.

The Historical Letters

From: Omar Ibn Al Khatab Khalifat Al Muslemin
To: Yazdgird III Shahanshah of Persian Empire


Yazdgird, I see not a fruitful future for you & your nation unless you accept my offer & commit Bei'at (Joining with Khalifat & bringing Islam). Once upon a time your land ruled half the known world but what has it come down to now? Your troops are defeated in all fronts & your nation is bound to collapse. I offer you a way to rescue yourself. Start praying to a mono God, a single union God, the only God who created everything in the universe. We bring you & the world his message, he who is the true God. Stop your Fire Worship, command your nation to stop their Fire Worship which is false; join us by joining the truth. Worship Allah O Akbar the only true God, The creator of universe. Worship to Allah & accept Islam as your salvation. End your Pagan ways & your false worships now & bring Islam so you can accept Allah O Akbar as your savior. By doing so, you will find the only way to your survival & peace for Persians. If you know what is best for Ajam (Arabic term for Persians meaning Retarded & Weird), you will choose this path. Bei'at is the only way.

Allah O Akbar
sign,
Khalifat Al Muslemin
Omar Ibn Al Khatab
* * * * * *

And here is Yazdgird III, famous respond to Omar:

From: Shah of Shahs, Shah of Persia and Beyond, Shah of many Kingdoms, Shah of Aryans and Non Aryans, Shah of Persians and many other races as well as Arabs, Shahanshah of Persian Empire, Yazdgird III Sassanid

To: Omar Ibn Al Khatab, Khalifat of Tazi (Persian term for Arabs,


In the name of Ahura Mazda, creator of Life & Intelligence,

You in your letter wrote that you want to direct us towards your God, Allah O Akbar, without having the true knowledge of who we are & what do we worship! It is amazing that you occupy the position of Khalifat (Ruler) of Arabs, yet your knowledge is the same as a lowly Arab rambler, roaming in deserts of Arabia, & same as a desert tribal man!

"Little Man" ( mardak) you offer me to worship a united & single God without knowing that it has been thousands of years that Persians worship the mono God & they pray to him Five Times a day! In this land of culture & art this has been the normal path of life for years.

When we established the tradition of hospitality & good deeds in the world & we waved the flag of "Good Thoughts, Good Words, Good Deeds" in our hands, you & your ancestors were roaming the deserts, eating Lizards for you had nothing else to feed yourselves & burying your innocent daughters alive (an old Arab tradition, cause they preferred male children to female)!

Tazi people have no value for God's creatures! You behead God's children, even the POWs (Prisoners of War), Rape Women, bury your daughters alive, attack the Caravans, mass murder, kidnap people's wives & steal their property! Your hearts are made of stone, we condemn all these Evil which you do. How can you teach us Godly Ways when you commit these action?

You tell me to stop my Fire Worship! Us, Persians see the Love of Creator & power of inventor in the light of Sun & warmth of Fire. Lights & Warmth of the Sun & Fire makes us see the light of truth & warmens our hearts to the creator & to one another. It helps us to be kind to one another, it enlightens us & makes us to keep Mazda's Flame, alive in our hearts. Our lord is Ahura Mazda & it is strange that you people also, just discovered him & named him Allah O Akbar! But we are not the same as you, we are not in the same level as you. We help other human being, we spread love among humanity, we spread Good throughout the Earth, we have been spreading our culture but in respect for other cultures throughout the whole world for thousands of years, yet you in the name of Allah invade other men's land! You mass murder the people, create famine, fear & poverty for others, you create Evil in the name of Allah. who is responsible for all this catastrophe?

Is it Allah who commands you to murder, pillage & to destroy?
Is it you the followers of Allah who do this in his name?
Or Is it both?

You have risen from heat of the deserts & burnt out infertile lands with no resources, you want to teach people the love of God by your military campaigns & the power of your Swords! You are Desert Savages, yet you want to teach Urban people like us who lived in the cities for thousands of years, the love of God! We have thousands of years of culture behind us, a powerful tool indeed! Tell us? With all your military campaigns, barbarianism, murder & pillage in the name of Allah O Akbar, what have you taught to this Muslim Army? What knowledge have you taught the Muslim that you also insist on teaching it to non Muslim? What culture have you learned from your Allah, now that you want to force-teach it to others?

Alas, Oh Alas...... that today our Persian Armies of Ahura have been defeated from your recently Allah Worshiping Armies; Now, our people have to worship the same God, the same Five times a day, but forced by the sword to call him Allah & pray to him in Arabic, cause your Allah only understands Arabic!

I suggest, you & your gang of bandits pack up & move back to your deserts where they are used to live. Take them back where they used to the burning heat of the sun, tribal life, eating Lizards & drinking Camel Milk. I forbid you to let your band of thieves loose in our fertile lands, civilized cities & our glorious nation. Don't turn these "beasts with hearts of stone" loose, to mass murder our people, kidnap our women & children, rape our wives & send our daughters to Mecca as slaves! Don't let them do these crimes in the name of Allah O Akbar, put a stop to your criminal behavior.

Aryans are forgiving, warm, hospitable, & decent people and everywhere they went, they have spread seeds of friendship, love, knowledge & truth; therefore, they shall not punish you & your people for your pirate ways & criminal acts.

I beg you to remain with your Allah O Akbar in your deserts & do not move close to our civilized cities, for your believes are "Much Fearful" & your behavior is "Most Barbaric"!

sign,
Yazdgird III Sassanid
who but the neighbor would know the Arabs so well?
ldev
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by ldev »

The Arabs are controllable, the Iranians are not. A weak India sided with Iran, because it was far too weak to control the Arabs, the West has found it easier to control the Arabs than the Iranians. A strong India will find it easier to control the Arabs than a less predictable Iran which has its own agenda. So India has to look beyond the immediate Pakistan problem and develop a strong equation with the Sunni Arabs. A strong India will find it easier to neutralize the Sunni Arab-Pakistan equation besides increasing its influence in the wider Middle East. One of India's biggest strength in the region is its reputation for not interfering in the internal affairs of each country unlike a fellow Muslim country, even one such as Pakistan but especially countries such as Egypt, Jordan etc which will try and influence internal developments. For that to successfully happen, India has to be able to become a net provider of security in the region with a matching economy and armed forces capability.

China, because of its economy and Russia because of its arms exports will always have more influence over Iran compared to India, not that either China or Russia will be able to ultimately dictate the direction of Iranian policy. India's soft power in the Gulf on the other hand gives it a unique advantage there. That has to supplemented by hard power to ensure continuing access to energy.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Falijee »

vijaykarthik wrote:Not exactly West Asia but a related and very relevant topic.

Mostly speculation [but backed by data and recent happenings]

Why is it that china is rushing to Pak? Is it possible that the 45bn USD is a "gift" (China+Russia?) for standing up to KSA? I don't see a specific reason for Xi to rush to Pak so quickly for a simple reason of going and talking to the joint parliament. Seens quite shocking to me.

Looks like there is a 45bn USD gift which included [drum roll please] 2bn for the Iran Pakistan pipeline - the exact same one that is hated by KSA and the US. The one that India was forced to give up in 2k9 for a nuclear deal. The same one that was stopped last yr by KSA (by paying 1.5bn USD to Paki as bribe).

So: why?

--
Don't know if it was linked but we see more reports of a NK-Iran détente / reports of NK sending large diameter engines to Iran - the ones which were under the sanctions list and could have brought the ndeal on its knees and toppled it and looks like the US has kept this news from the UN. So, if that's also true, is it that there are forces in the background which are doing their damndest best to kill the n deal at this stage? Doesn't look like the US is able to control all the variables lately.
Vijay ji
The visit of the Chinese honcho has at last happened after many earlier "cancellations"
And the US 45 billion figure being touted is not a gift and is not related to the Yemeni civil war; no media reports on this
Tuvaluan
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Tuvaluan »

The sunnis as just as dangerous or perhaps even more so than the shias, given their numerical superiority and their penchant for cultural and demographic invasion as a long term strategy. Better to keep these two groups killing each other in large numbers and save the rest the trouble -- if they actually get wiser and stop behaving like followers of a death cult out to vanquish and destroy all other cultures by any means possible (like they are doing today), then maybe there is some value to having an alliance. Large parts of India are infested with murderous and narrow minded sunnis who have taken inspiration from the Sunni Arabs and are a thorn in the flesh of the local populace. We would do well not to forget such things before getting into "Alliances" with the sunnis like the US and the west. We can see a fat lot of good it has done them all, right? Even pakis got into an alliance with the sunni arabs and the are not exactly gaining from that alliance.
UlanBatori
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by UlanBatori »

WHAT 45 bn? US dollars? :rotfl: Highly unlikey in present US financial / political situation, and vanishing importance of Pakistan in US calculations. Maybe all in ISI-minted Monopoly dollars? No US entity is going to pay $4.5B in bribes, which is what $45B to TSP means.
vijaykarthik
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by vijaykarthik »

Umm, let me clarify. I wanted to mean this might be a gift plus "belt and road" plus access to Gwadar plus access to Taliban militants [or lack of them] etc etc.

So, net net qn: Are the Chinese paying the Pakis for standing up to KSA?

But the 45bn is pretty clear. Most open source media talk about it. Not a secret anymore. BTW, Xi must be in Pak today so we will get info on the projects "signed" today.

BTW, the oil pipeline might go ahead. CNPC is paying up serious money to get that stuff going. Wonder why China wants to do that and irritate KSA & US.

--
Will we see some balochi trouble being stirred by USA & KSA?
vijaykarthik
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by vijaykarthik »

^Not US, UB. Its China that's giving this money.
vijaykarthik
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by vijaykarthik »

Tuvaluan wrote:The sunnis as just as dangerous or perhaps even more so than the shias, given their numerical superiority and their penchant for cultural and demographic invasion as a long term strategy. Better to keep these two groups killing each other in large numbers and save the rest the trouble -- if they actually get wiser and stop behaving like followers of a death cult out to vanquish and destroy all other cultures by any means possible (like they are doing today), then maybe there is some value to having an alliance. Large parts of India are infested with murderous and narrow minded sunnis who have taken inspiration from the Sunni Arabs and are a thorn in the flesh of the local populace. We would do well not to forget such things before getting into "Alliances" with the sunnis like the US and the west. We can see a fat lot of good it has done them all, right? Even pakis got into an alliance with the sunni arabs and the are not exactly gaining from that alliance.
They can never get wiser
a. until they stop believing that _everyone_ who doesn't believe in an Allah is a kuffir.
b. until they stop believing that they have the gods blessings with them to kill kufirs

The best part about KSS is that they make serious people think that its Salafism that's the root rotten cause of all the faults in the muslim brotherhood while its the more virulent Wahabbists that are the rotten ones.
Philip
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Philip »

Armenian Holocaust,Turkey still in Armenian Holocaust denial,unlike the Germans.
Watch the superb 2-part film Mayrig,and 588 Rue Paradis,starring Omar Sharif,Claudia Cardinale,Richard Berry,etc.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 88119.html
Robert Fisk
Monday 20 April 2015
Armenian genocide: To continue to deny the truth of this mass human cruelty is close to a criminal lie
I dug the bones and skulls of massacred Armenians out of the Syrian desert with my own hands in 1992
At seven o’clock on Thursday evening, a group of very brave men and women will gather in Taksim Square, in the centre of Istanbul, to stage an unprecedented and moving commemoration. The men and women will be both Turkish and Armenian, and they will be gathering together to remember the 1.5 million Christian Armenian men, women and children slaughtered by the Ottoman Turks in the 1915 genocide. That Armenian Holocaust – the direct precursor of the Jewish Holocaust – began 100 years ago this Thursday, only half a mile from Taksim, when the government of the time rounded up hundreds of Armenian intellectuals and writers from their homes and prepared them for death and the annihilation of their people.

The Pope has already annoyed the Turks by calling this wicked act – the most terrible massacre of the First World War – a genocide, which it was: the deliberate and planned attempt to liquidate a race of people. The Turkish government – but, thank God, not all the Turkish people – have maintained their petulant and childish denial of this fact of history on the grounds that the Armenians were not killed according to a plan (the old “chaos of war” nonsense), and that the word “genocide” was anyway coined only after the Second World War and thus cannot apply to them. On that basis, the First World War wasn’t the First World War because it wasn’t called the First World War at the time!

Two thoughts come to mind, then, on this centenary of the butchery, mass rape and child killing of 1915. The first is that for a powerful government of a strong – and courageous – European and Nato nation such as Turkey to continue to deny the truth of this mass human cruelty is close to a criminal lie. More than 100,000 Turks have discovered that they have Armenian grandmothers or great-grandmothers – the very women kidnapped, enslaved, raped or converted on the death marches from Anatolia into the northern Syrian desert – and Turkish historians themselves (alas, not enough of them) are now producing the most detailed documentary evidence of the sinister Talat Pasha’s extermination orders issued from what was then Constantinople.

Yet anyone who opposes the government’s denial of genocide is still vilified. For almost a quarter of a century, I have been receiving mail from Turks about my own writing on the genocide. It started when I dug the bones and skulls of massacred Armenians out of the Syrian desert with my own hands in 1992. A few correspondents wanted to express their support. Most letters were little short of pernicious. And I rather fear that the continued denial by the Turkish government could be as dangerous to Turkey as it is outrageous for the Armenian descendants of the dead. I remember an elderly Armenian lady describing to me how she saw Turkish militiamen piling living babies on top of each other and setting fire to them. Her mother told her that their cries were the sound of their souls going up to heaven. Isn’t this – and the enslavement of women – exactly what Isis is perpetrating against its ethnic enemies just across the Turkish border today? Denial is fraught with peril.

And let’s ask ourselves what would happen if the present German government was to claim that any demand to recognise the “events” of 1939-1945 – in which six million Jews were murdered – as a genocide was “Jewish propaganda” and “mutilating history and law”. Yet that was pretty much what the Turkish government said when the EU last week asked it to recognise the Armenian genocide. The EU, the foreign ministry said in Ankara, had succumbed to “Armenian propaganda” about the “events” of 1915, and was “mutilating history and law”. If Germany had adopted such unforgivable words about the Jewish Holocaust, you would not have been able to see through the Berlin exhaust fumes as the world’s ambassadors headed for the airport.

Yet the very day after the brave little commemoration scheduled for Taksim Square this week, the great and the good of the Western world will be gathering with Turkish leaders a few miles to the west of Istanbul to honour the dead of Gallipoli, Mustafa Kemal’s extraordinary – and brilliant – 1915 victory over the Allies in the First World War. How many of them will remember that among the Turkish heroes fighting for Turkey at Gallipoli was a certain Armenian Captain Torossian – whose own sister would soon die in the genocide?

I plan to report on the commemoration next week in the company of Turkish friends. But the second thought that comes to mind – and Armenian friends must forgive me – is that I’m not terribly interested in what the Armenians say and do on this 100th anniversary. I want to know what they plan to do on the day after the day of the 100th anniversary. The Armenian survivors – those who could remember – are now all dead. In about 30 years, Jews around the world will suffer the same deep sadness as their own last survivors disappear from the world of living testimony. But the dead live on, especially when their victimhood is denied – a curse that forces them to die again and again.

Armenians must surely now compile a list of the brave Turks who saved their lives during their people’s persecution. There is at least one provincial governor, and individual named Turkish soldiers and policemen, who risked their own lives to save Armenians at this gruesome moment in Turkish history. Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Turkey’s triumphalist prime minister, has spoken of his sorrow for the Armenians, while continuing to deny the genocide. Would he dare to refuse to sign an Armenian genocide book of commemoration listing the brave Turks who tried to save their nation’s honour at its darkest hour?

I’ve been banging on about this idea to Armenians for years. I said the same to Armenians in Detroit last week. Honour the good Turks. Alas, everyone claps. And does nothing.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by vijaykarthik »

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-32377088

More here:
China's President Xi Jinping has arrived in Pakistan, where he is expected to announce investment of $46bn (£30.7bn).

The focus of the spending is on building a China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) - a network of roads, railway and pipelines between the two.

They will run some 3,000km (1,865 miles) from Gwadar in Pakistan to China's western Xinjiang region.

The projects will give China direct access to the Indian Ocean and beyond.

This marks a major advance in China's plans to boost its economic influence in Central and South Asia, correspondents say, and far exceeds US spending in Pakistan.




"Pakistan, for China, is now of pivotal importance. This has to succeed and be seen to succeed," Reuters quoted Mushahid Hussain Sayed, chairman of the Pakistani parliament's defence committee, as saying.

Pakistan, for its part, hopes the investment will boost its struggling economy and help end chronic power shortages.

Leaders are also expected to discuss co-operation on security.

Mr Xi will spend two days holding talks with his counterpart Mamnoon Hussain, Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif and other ministers. He will address parliament on Tuesday.

Deals worth some $28bn are ready to be signed during the visit, with the rest to follow.

Under the CPEC plan, China's government and banks will lend to Chinese companies, so they can invest in projects as commercial ventures.

A network of roads, railways and energy developments will eventually stretch some 3,000km (1,865 miles).

Some $15.5bn worth of coal, wind, solar and hydro energy projects will come online by 2017 and add 10,400 megawatts of energy to Pakistan's national grid, according to officials.

A $44m optical fibre cable between the two countries is also due to be built.

Pakistan, meanwhile, hopes the investment will enable it to transform itself into a regional economic.

Ahsan Iqbal, the Pakistani minister overseeing the plan, told the AFP news agency that these were "very substantial and tangible projects which will have a significant transformative effect on Pakistan's economy".

Mr Xi is also expected to discuss security issues with Mr Sharif, including China's concerns that Muslim separatists from Xinjiang are linking up with Pakistani militants.

"China and Pakistan need to align security concerns more closely to strengthen security co-operation," he said in a statement to Pakistani media on Sunday.

"Our co-operation in the security and economic fields reinforce each other, and they must be advanced simultaneously."
Strange that China isn't talking about the 2bn for the Iranian Paki pipeline? Mmh.
RajeshA
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by RajeshA »

ldev's post
ldev wrote:The Arabs are controllable, the Iranians are not. A weak India sided with Iran, because it was far too weak to control the Arabs, the West has found it easier to control the Arabs than the Iranians. A strong India will find it easier to control the Arabs than a less predictable Iran which has its own agenda. So India has to look beyond the immediate Pakistan problem and develop a strong equation with the Sunni Arabs. A strong India will find it easier to neutralize the Sunni Arab-Pakistan equation besides increasing its influence in the wider Middle East. One of India's biggest strength in the region is its reputation for not interfering in the internal affairs of each country unlike a fellow Muslim country, even one such as Pakistan but especially countries such as Egypt, Jordan etc which will try and influence internal developments. For that to successfully happen, India has to be able to become a net provider of security in the region with a matching economy and armed forces capability.

China, because of its economy and Russia because of its arms exports will always have more influence over Iran compared to India, not that either China or Russia will be able to ultimately dictate the direction of Iranian policy. India's soft power in the Gulf on the other hand gives it a unique advantage there. That has to supplemented by hard power to ensure continuing access to energy.
Also Iran's Grand Strategy


I would like to do a reevaluation of my/our current thinking on this.

Over the years, I have often favored a more Indo-Iranian rapprochement based on ancient cultural bonds, but if one really thinks about it, our relations with Iran have mostly been one of tension, from the Avestan period to the Mughal period to Ayatollah period. Sure the Arabs were interested in some puritanical version of Islam, and such ulema did adorn the courts of Islamic rulers in India, but the political Islamic colonization of India has been at the hands of Turks and Afghans riding on Iranian cultural and imperial memes.

Iranians in some ways see Pakistan as its cultural depth and in fact as the sword arm with which to expand eastwards. One just needs to see the level of support Pakistan received from the Shah of Iran, e.g. during 1971 war or for that matter Islamic regime's interference in Kashmir politics. The Arabs on the other hand have never attacked India, except for the brief campaign by Muhammad bin Qasim in Sindh, and often it had to do with their politics against Persians.

So I think, Indian wish to ally with Iran is actually a mirage!

Arabs, I feel, have two interests in the Indian Subcontinent - Islamization, because that is what they do and Sunnization for curtailing Iranian influence and trying to build up reserves who can support Arabs against the Persians.

The Yemen conflict is again bringing it to Arab awareness, that Sunnism alone would not save the day viz-a-viz Iranians. Neither the Turks nor the Persians see each other as enemies, but in fact see themselves as joint-partners to define Central and Sooth Asia, and look upon Arabs as weak and worthy of disposal. Turks want to establish a neo-Ottoman Empire, with control over Hejaz while Iranians may not be disinterested in a neo-Mughal Empire. So Turks as a Sunni power is not really helping the Arabs versus the Iranians. In fact Turks may be trying to making itself the predominant power in the region. First Turks tried to put Muslim Brotherhood in charge of Egypt and now they may be trying to buy out ISIS from the Gulf Arabs.

For Arabs, the alliance of Gulf countries with America is also coming undone after the approaching P5+1-Iran agreement, where USA may not support Gulf countries to the same extent against Iran. Nor can China really give the Gulf countries what they want, simply because China is more interested in securing Central Asia in cooperation with Iran than really interested in Sunni control over Arab lands.

Why is Iran actually Shia? I would say to underline its independence from Gulf Arabs. If the Gulf Arabs are beaten through a joint Turk-Iranian venture, and do not have the resources anymore to project their influence into the Indian Subcontinent, and India falls to Islam, as per the thinking of Iranians, then there is no real reason for Iranians to cling on to Shi'ism. If Sunnis take over Indian Subcontinent and reestablish the neo-Mughal Empire, then Iran would be more than willing to dump Shi'ism the same day, become Sunni and try to take over the reigns of such a neo-Mughal Empire. The DNA of Iran is more imperialist than Islamic, I think.

Gulf Arabs need a Sunni Pakistan first and foremost to checkmate Iran on Iran's eastern border, to stop a neo-Mughalistan emerging first as Iran-Pakistan combo and then expanding eastwards and westwards. So the Sunnization drive in Pakistan by Gulf Arabs is directed against Iran. Military strengthening of Pakistan by the Arabs was simply to receive military aid from Pakis when the need arises. Gulf Arab support to Pakistan is not directed primarily against India but against Iran. Yemen conflict is telling the Gulf Arabs, that that investment in Pakistan is not paying off sufficiently.

India's problem with Pakistan is not the level of Sunnization or Islamization of Pakistan. It is not about how green Pakistan is. Our problem with Pakistan is really that it has an imperialist center (Pindi) as well, just like there is one in Turkey and Iran.

A fully Talibanized Pakistan is not the problem for India. However a fully armed Pakistan is, because then it starts getting uppity and imperialist.

But 3½ friends of Pakistan have been continuously arming Pakistan, and that creates a difficulty for India. What India wants is the breakdown of the imperialist military center in Pakistan, and not necessarily some form of Islamic moderation. That is uninteresting!

So how to achieve it? I think we need to turn at least one of Pakistan's friends against it! It can be China, Gulf Arabs or USA. Indians have for decades hoped that USA would dump Pakistan. Some thought that common values between USA and India would lead to this. Others thought that the deaths of thousands of American troops at the hands of Pakistan-supported proxies would help USA to change its mindset. That is not going to be the case.

China would not dump Pakistan simply because of geopolitics in Asia. Our primary foe is China and they too know it.

Question is can the Gulf Arabs dump Pakistan? Yemen is providing some possibilities.

The thing we should not care about the Islamization or rather Sunnization of Pakistan! If the Gulf Arabs want to throw more money into Pakistan to make more Sunni drones, then that should be okay with us, AS LONG AS there is no imperial military center in Pakistan to make use of them to wage war against India. Sunnization of Pakistan only acts as a check on Iranian influence.

Question is can the Gulf Arabs dump Pakistani Army?

We Indians know that Gulf Arabs can be very "flexible" regarding political alignments - with USA, with ISRAEL!!!

So here is one proposal!

Indian demands from Gulf Arabs:
  1. Stop Islamization in India - no more funding.
  2. Bangladesh should be left by the Gulf as India's "core interest"
  3. Free Baluchistan
  4. Help India take down Pakistan Army
  5. Support India's takeover of PoK
  6. Provide intelligence on any anti-Indian Islamic plans
  7. Gulf monarchies channel their money locked up elsewhere into Indian infrastructure
Here should be what India could offer the Gulf Arabs:
  1. All Paki military personnel are sent back from Gulf
  2. Indians take over as protectors of Gulf Arab monarchies
  3. Indians build a special Afghan Regiment in the Indian Army consisting of Sunnis, for protection of Gulf Arabs
  4. Gulf monarchies receive Indian nuclear umbrella, though secret
This is a far better scenario for Gulf Arab monarchies, than their current arrangement. Paki Army wants to play the Arabs against the Turks and Iranians. Why? Because of their Neo-Mughalistan dreams! India would not have any such reasons.
Mukesh.Kumar
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Mukesh.Kumar »

RajeshAji, thought provoking post. I would agree to it, but the only thing that I would say is that we need to be flexible. Strong Regional powers/ blocs are not in our interest. Our objective should be more aligned with ensuring that no one gets a clear lead over the others so that they can cast aside local troubles and consider India expendable.

Again underlining, No permanent friends or enemies. Only permanent Bharatiya interests that we should strive for.
RajeshA
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by RajeshA »

Mukesh.Kumar wrote:RajeshAji, thought provoking post. I would agree to it, but the only thing that I would say is that we need to be flexible. Strong Regional powers/ blocs are not in our interest.
I wouldn't say, the above approach renders any inflexibility into the Indian position in playing geopolitics.

However at the moment the interests of one regional power (Iran) would be to use another regional power (Pakistan) to expand into India. While the interests of the other regional power (Gulf Arabs) would be to use regional power (Pakistan) to checkmate another regional power (Iran).

The second strategy is clearly more in our interests if we accept the checkmating of Iran by Pakistan (through Sunnization), but take away Pakistan's regional power status (through destruction of Pakistani Army).

We should shift from being a passive observer to being a backstage director of the show, getting rid of India's enemies, Pakistani Army!
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Mukesh.Kumar »

RajeshA wrote:
We should shift from being a passive observer to being a backstage director of the show.....!
++1 to that RajeshAji
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by TSJones »

US not rescuing US citizens in Yemen. Gee, the US is just so baaaaaad.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/20/middleeas ... index.html

Who knew this would happen? We were only bombing Yemen with drones and fighting al queda in Yemen. That doesn't mean anything. Who knew this could happen? The US government abandon them. It's so unfair !!!!!! And racist, too! Second class citizens. Anyway, who wants to have India rescue them? Naw, no thanks.

I think I'm going to go climb a glacier in Alaska before it disappears. I'm outta shape and never hiked a glacier before. Not to worry. Somebody will rescue me.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Bhurishrava »

http://www.bdlive.co.za/world/europe/20 ... -on-russia

EU is thinking of getting gas fom Iran to lessen its reliance on Russia.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by RamaY »

Good ideas there RajeshA ji.

India protecting and supporting a Sunni-block in West Asia is an interesting idea and can open new geopolitical opportunities for India.

But we need to see the practicality in any of these ideas. I seriously doubt it is in anyone's capacity to help India recapture PoK, except India. The time is running out and India need to make a lot of noise about China's presence there right now and put pressure on $72B Chinese investments there. India need to reiterate its claim on PoK in every platform and especially with China. It should also tell China in clear terms that Tibet is a disputed territory as far as India is concerned. India recapturing PoK will create its own geopolitical ripples and it will permanently destroy one of the Islamic imperialist center you mentioned.

Secondly there is no need for Sunni army contingents to protect Arab countries. A Hindu army too can protect them and Arab countries will/should have no issues with that.

BRF can do a wargame scenario to calculate and present the cost of recapturing PoK. But thats a different discussion.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by RajeshA »

RamaY wrote:Secondly there is no need for Sunni army contingents to protect Arab countries. A Hindu army too can protect them and Arab countries will/should have no issues with that.
I'm afraid, I have a different assessment on this. Islamic dynamics simply do not allow any non-Muslim army to be stationed in Saudi Arabia. It weakens the position of any Saudi government which were to allow this.
I seriously doubt it is in anyone's capacity to help India recapture PoK, except India.
That is of course true, but theoretically speaking the Saudis too can help by using their groups in Pakistan to keep the Army bogged down, or creating dissensions in the Army itself. Some groups can always find some excuse to resist the Paki Army. It is about controlling the Paki response to India's takeover of PoK.
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Post by RamaY »

RajeshA garu,

Everything is possible in geopolitics; for they span nations & civilizations.

RAW penetrated Pakistani Army more than a decade ago & is well set to destroy it from within.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by RajeshA »

RamaY wrote:RajeshA garu,

Everything is possible in geopolitics; for they span nations & civilizations.

RAW penetrated Pakistani Army more than a decade ago & is well set to destroy it from within.
Creating an Afghan Regiment in the Indian Army is beneficial not only to support the Gulf monarchies, but also to destabilize Paki Army! If we want to play the geopolitics game, then we can't do downhill skiing on any policy just at the mention of something "Islam"! Let's play the game in earnest!
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by deejay »

RajeshA wrote:
RamaY wrote:Secondly there is no need for Sunni army contingents to protect Arab countries. A Hindu army too can protect them and Arab countries will/should have no issues with that.
I'm afraid, I have a different assessment on this. Islamic dynamics simply do not allow any non-Muslim army to be stationed in Saudi Arabia. It weakens the position of any Saudi government which were to allow this.

...
A tidbit here (OT but relevant): When publishers went to sell their Islamic books from India to Saudi Arabia, they were informed that since India is not under Sharia / Islamic State, they cannot accept even our Islamic religious texts as that would be Haram. So, we sell R S Sharma, Lalji Prasad etc. :) And these are acceptable. Lot of issues of similar nature in other aspects too when accepting help / support from countries like India.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by RajeshA »

deejay wrote:
RamaY wrote:Secondly there is no need for Sunni army contingents to protect Arab countries. A Hindu army too can protect them and Arab countries will/should have no issues with that.
RajeshA wrote:
I'm afraid, I have a different assessment on this. Islamic dynamics simply do not allow any non-Muslim army to be stationed in Saudi Arabia. It weakens the position of any Saudi government which were to allow this.

...
A tidbit here (OT but relevant): When publishers went to sell their Islamic books from India to Saudi Arabia, they were informed that since India is not under Sharia / Islamic State, they cannot accept even our Islamic religious texts as that would be Haram. So, we sell R S Sharma, Lalji Prasad etc. :) And these are acceptable. Lot of issues of similar nature in other aspects too when accepting help / support from countries like India.
Yes, that is one of the reasons, I did not propose an Indian Muslim regiment in the Indian Army!
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by vijaykarthik »

Did anyone see the latest Alyssa Ayres analysis on CFR. She pretty much bats for more presence of Indian military in Af.

http://www.cfr.org/afghanistan/why-unit ... tan/p36414

Why the United States Should Work With India to Stabilize Afghanistan
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/worl ... /25952351/

a lot of nations in africa are teetering on the edge as viable propositions. I forsee vast bloodshed and a new redrawing of the straight line national borders imposed by the franco-brit-belgian cabal.

some will become islamist caliphates
some christian kingdoms
some under sikular warlords
none with any form of democracy

china who needs africa's rich resources would be very comfortable with the current fluid situation and be willing to prop up whichever warlords play ball with them.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by A_Gupta »

Here comes the war!
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-p ... en-n345041
American warships are prepared to intercept a convoy of Iranian ships suspected of carrying weapons to Houthi rebel forces in Yemen, senior defense and military officials told NBC News on Monday.

An Iranian convoy of freighters, escorted by warships from the Iranian military and Revolutionary Guard forces, appears headed for Yemen, the officials said.
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They emphasized that while the USS Theodore Roosevelt carrier group would be in position to intercept the convoy, an intercept could also be carried out by Saudi Arabia, Egypt or the United Arab Emirates, which are patrolling the waters off Yemen.

Supported by the United States, Saudi Arabia has led Sunni Arab countries in carrying out more than three weeks of airstrikes targeting the rebels, who are backed by Iran and have seized parts of Yemen.

There is no indication that U.S. or other coalition warships have been in contact with the Iranians, but one official told NBC News, "They know we're there."

Some U.S. officials are concerned that the leak of the information is not good, coming at the same time as the United States and other countries try to reach a final agreement on Iran's nuclear program.

"Since this is now public, the Iranians may feel they've been backed into a corner" and attempt to run through any blockade set up by the coalition warships, one official said.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by TSJones »

Not going to be a serious war. We'll sink their rinky dink navy. The only real way thy have to strike at us is through terrorism or taking pot shots at us while going through the straits of Hormuz. other than that, if they get near us we'll clobber them. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. Death from above.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Prem »

https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/04/20/ch ... lear-deal/
China’s Middle East Tightrope
2 understand China’s role in the Middle East, consider one recent event, and one recent non-event. In late March, Beijing made headlines by sending warships to rescue hundreds of Chinese and foreign nationals from conflict-torn Yemen. Yet in early April, Chinese President Xi Jinping canceled what was supposed to be his first official trip to Saudi Arabia and Egypt, reportedly as a result of the fighting in Yemen — underscoring that Beijing would rather get out of the kitchen than stand the heat of Middle Eastern politics. Indeed, it is China’s considerable absence, rather than burgeoning influence, that continues to define its role in this turbulent region.China has good reasons to care about events in the Middle East: Roughly half of its oil imports come from the Persian Gulf. Moreover, Beijing worries about extremist elements in the region providing training and inspiration to Muslim separatists in western China.
However, in stark contrast to Xi’s ambitious domestic agenda — reforming key sectors of the economy, including banking and agriculture; easing restrictions on China’s outmoded household registration system; and relaxing its infamous one-child policy — he has done little in foreign policy that would merit a memoir like Hillary Clinton’s Hard Choices. In fact, despite Xi’s call for a more “proactive” Chinese foreign policy, Beijing has still only contributed to the safe and soft domains of international politics, such as economic development, anti-piracy, global public health, and U.N. peacekeeping. China doesn’t expend significant blood or treasure abroad combating violent extremism, settling bloody civil wars, or mediating major regional conflicts.China doesn’t expend significant blood or treasure abroad combating violent extremism, settling bloody civil wars, or mediating major regional conflicts. Beijing has instead remained allergic to confronting tough political and security issues overseas, acutely limiting its geopolitical influence. As a result, China’s persistent appeals for “win-win” cooperation, which may make sense in economic affairs and other dispassionate realms, hold little water where political battles are zero-sum and fought over indivisible and deeply contested stakes.
Nowhere is this more evident than in the Middle East, where China’s influence on regional issues is surprisingly marginal, even as its growing energy dependency is compelling deeper partnerships with the likes of Saudi Arabia.
Unwilling to put teeth behind its positions, China has made tentative forays into the Middle East morass that have largely fallen flat. In October 2012, China’s then foreign minister, Yang Jiechi, rolled out a “Four-Point Plan” for Syria that called on all sides to stop fighting, end the crisis, and initiate a political transition. The Associated Press noted that the plan generated little international interest: Most observers found it “vague, and likely aimed at bolstering China’s reputation following criticism of its moves to join Russia in blocking U.N. resolutions aimed at ending Syria’s bloodshed.” Needless to say, this was a failure.The problem is that Beijing does not want to choose sides in a region that regularly demands it. By contrast, Washington has made considerable commitments in the region: The United States remains the de facto guarantor of external security for Saudi Arabia and the rest of the states in the Gulf Cooperation Council. The dominant American naval presence safeguards the free flow of oil resources out of the Middle East, underwriting the economic prosperity of many of the region’s actors, and Washington remains deeply engaged in the thankless task of trying to mediate between Israelis and Palestinians. And yet, despite America’s significant investment, its partners in the Middle East have criticized the Obama administration for refusing to take even more decisive actions across a range of regional conflicts. The region is very demanding of a superpower: If China wants to play at that level, it’s going to have to take sides.It is hard to see how a deeply risk-averse China could step into a leadership role in any of the region’s fiery disputes. Beijing’s most difficult balancing act will be trying to maintain good relations with both Riyadh and Tehran amid escalating regional and sectarian competition. Saudi Arabia’s greatest concern about the Iranian nuclear agreement, which may be completed by the end of June, is that the removal of banking and oil sanctions will give Tehran the resources to wreak even more havoc through its proxies in Yemen, Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq. The majority of new money pouring into Iran would come from China — Iran’s largest trading partner. Indeed, only days after the Iranian nuclear agreement was reached in early April, Iran’s oil minister, Bijan Zanganeh, was on his way to Beijing. Can China really supplant the United States as the guarantor of the Gulf states’ security when it is bankrolling their most significant threat?Of course, few would disagree with President Barack Obama’s characterization that the Chinese “have been free riders for the past 30 years and it’s worked really well for them” in the Middle East. In that sense, Beijing may be prudent not to get involved in the region’s seemingly intractable conflicts. Nevertheless, China cannot continue pursuing a risk-averse foreign policy and simultaneously emerge as a leader in the rough-and-tumble arena of Middle East politics. For Xi, it will be an either-or decision.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by RoyG »

TSJones wrote:Not going to be a serious war. We'll sink their rinky dink navy. The only real way thy have to strike at us is through terrorism or taking pot shots at us while going through the straits of Hormuz. other than that, if they get near us we'll clobber them. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. Death from above.
Great. Now how will you deal with Russia and China coordinating their actions in financial and currency markets and opening up brand new fronts in Ukraine and East and South East Asia?
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by UlanBatori »

Something tells me this is a convoy filled with food going in and orphans etc going out.

So the mighty USN can intercept an Eyeranian convoy with "arms for the Houthis", but cannot figure out how the ISIS is refining, shipping, selling and delivering a million barrels of oil a day?

Where were the Eyeranians planning on berthing and unloading these cargo ships filled with heavy weapons I wonder? In Aden? :rotfl:

Hi likelihood of a major SDOTUS-WHOTUS SNAFU that will cause the ROTHOROTUS to jump and down and the POTUS and FLOTUS to :(( (to put it in cliyar terms for Comrade "Ro-Bin-e-404i")

I wonder if the aces have ever wondered how all those rockets get into Gaza. By convoys of Eyeranian freighters?
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by chanakyaa »

"Coming to Terms With the American Empire is republished with permission of Stratfor."
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Altair »

RoyG wrote: Great. Now how will you deal with Russia and China coordinating their actions in financial and currency markets and opening up brand new fronts in Ukraine and East and South East Asia?
Russia is also opening Arctic sector. Norway is totally pissed off and so is Finland. Russia has declared Arctic is their Mecca. Google if you want to. Russia is damn serious about Arctic. Yemen war may be time pass feud for some but coming war front is somewhere else.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by habal »

US is trying to mend relations with Iran so that the loss caused by cancelling of the 'south stream pipeline' by Russia can be circumvented and EU still kept under anglo fold. South stream is to replaced with Iran stream, so that bulk of South European consumers of erstwhile Russian gas do not defect en masse to Russian camp.

http://russia-insider.com/en/another-id ... ussia/5860
So, is this the plan, to provide “energy security” to Europe by replacing Russian gas with Iranian gas?

It sure looks like it. But that suggests that the sanctions really had nothing to do with Iran’s fictitious nuclear weapons program but were merely used to humiliate Iran while keeping as much of its oil and gas offline until western-backed multinationals could get their greasy mitts on it.
So it also makes sense why they were so desperate to scuttle IPI as well.
If India consumed bulk of Iranian gas, there would be none left for such EU contingencies.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by vijaykarthik »

^Ofcourse Russia will be worried about the Arctic and they are moving serious troops there. Atleast 2/3 locations where troops are moved [battalion strength] plus some missile batteries / arties etc etc.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by vijaykarthik »

From NW:

Salient snippet of bits:
A brief comparison of today's joint statement with the China-India joint statement of September 2014, when President Xi visited India, is instructive. China described the relationship with India as a "Strategic and Cooperative Partnership for Peace and Prosperity." The stress was on peace, stability and prosperity plus resolution of disputes through dialogue.

The content and tone of the Indian joint statement described a kind of partnership that is different from that described for Pakistan. It contained a strong sense of equality that is missing from the Pakistani statement. At multiple points China and India agreed to work together for regional peace, prosperity and development. .

By comparison, the Pakistan joint statement is closer to a work order agreement in which Pakistan supports Chinese strategic goals. The tone is that used by a superior power assisting a needy subordinate.


Silk and "Belt" Initiative indeed.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by schinnas »

UlanBatori wrote: Where were the Eyeranians planning on berthing and unloading these cargo ships filled with heavy weapons I wonder? In Aden? :rotfl:
There is a standard MO followed in these cases. These cargo ships stop in international waters and several small boats (fast moving fishing fiber boats) will be used to unload the cargo and escape detection of coastal patroling. LTTE refined it into an art form, and was defeated only after Indian Navy captured / sank their mother-ships in international territory.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by vijaykarthik »

I remember seeing that a major conduit for rockets headed to Lebanon (Hizbollah) was through Syria and for rockets headed to (Hamas) was thorough Gaza Strip.

Remember the time when Morsi was PM and he opened the tunnels and some access to Gaza Strip was obtained and Hamas "earned" about 1.5bn during that time.

I think Derna also is a convenient way to ship weapons. But its a more complicated route. Whenever a big shipment of lethal missiles changes hands, Israel tries to smash the shipment. Notable occasions being the Yakhont which were bombed just after they had been stored in the depot when it reached from Russia. Was it 2k12?
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

http://www.trbimg.com/img-5535cd2c/turb ... 0/1150x647

all the nations in this map barring a couple like kenya, uganda and ghana are failed states. and the viable ones are being attacked by folks like Al-Shabab.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

JE Menon
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by JE Menon »

Singha wrote:http://www.trbimg.com/img-5535cd2c/turb ... 0/1150x647

all the nations in this map barring a couple like kenya, uganda and ghana are failed states. and the viable ones are being attacked by folks like Al-Shabab.
GD, this is a bit of a canard that is out there largely for undiscernible purpose because it really helps no one. As things stand, in sub-Saharan Africa, the states that are (strictly speaking) failed or failing are only a handful - Somalia, Central African Republic, to a lesser extent Mali, and to a still lesser extent South Sudan, and ebola-hit Liberia and Sierra Leone. Other than these if one could name two more African countries in the dire state that requires the label failed or failing, it would be a bit of a surprise.

These are mostly states that are gradually stabilising their polities, gingerly stepping into the confusing and loud mess that is democracy, very gradually deregulating their economies, slowly regaining their cultural confidence, and steadily working their way up the human development chain. It seems to me, though I haven't studied the data, that primary education in many of these countries may not be excellent but foundationally quite strong and available to those who wish to avail. There will be hiccups, and these will be played up (depending on whose colony they used to be) by the viciously misdirecting propaganda instruments that pass (largely) for the mainstream Western media. But these will be temporary and localised in my opinion. The penetration of television has helped a lot, and the influx of both private sector investment from India and government projects backed by China is making small but progressively noticeable difference. Still, this is largely an African generated and African inspired process. It is done through small co-operative projects, village level microfinance, women's initiatives, etc etc.

The sound and fury we hear at the governmental level is the noise of participation, which also involves violence. A bit like India, say, in the 1980s where the local parties are slugging it out on the streets literally. Even Zimbabwe (remember the huge hullabaloo about Robert Mugabe?) is quietly back on track after dollarizing it's currency... Things are not so stark as the trash viewsmedia (BBC/CNN/SKY/FOX and the related print media primarily) would have us believe. At least 5 of these sub-Saharan countries (excluding Nigeria and South Africa) have per capita incomes higher than that of India!

I say all the above from personal observation of about 6 of these countries, and local print media scanning of these and others.

Now, coming to Al Shabab, this group is an instrument for needling and poking, nothing more. They will keep on killing, continually, in East Africa particularly Kenya but they will not be able to affect or change anything very fundamentally. The economy will take a hit, but people will learn to work around terrorism - just as they have done in India. There is also little patience for radical Islam among East African authorities, who can be quite merciless and rightly so. They all recognise that there is a chance for progress, growth and to bring welfare to their people and broadly speaking they all want to achieve it. Is there corruption? Yes. Petty corruption? Yes. Is infrastructure poor? Yes. Is progress slow and decisions glacierly? Yes. Is the informal economy cutting loose? Happily yes. Are people hustling on the ground? Absolutely bloody yes. Are the kids being sent to school? Yes again. Each country has its own pace, and its own pecularities and political proclivities - but these are not failing states.

Don't know enough about Boko Haram to comment, but I suspect nothing of the sort that ISIS is doing will succeed in Nigeria. Steadily violence against this group will result in their bloody suppression. The violent Islamist tendency will persist, but it will not threaten the state in a fundamental way I don't think. However, I will hedge here by saying I've not followed this particular problem closely enough. This is just a semi-informed view.
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