China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

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TSJones
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by TSJones »

I'm hesitant in broadcasting all of this info on a potentially adversarial data analysis site but I am pretty sure the Chinese and Russians already know this stuff. If not, it's going to be a wake up call. :D

http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/57s1.htm

TASM

In November 1972 design began for the Tomahawk anti-ship missile.
It carried the same 1,000-pound high-explosive semi-armor-piercing warhead as the conventional land-attack Tomahawk.
It could penetrate a submarine's pressure hull or a large warship's hull plating.
Originally it was planned for a range of 140 nautical miles, which was adequate for underwater launch, since submarines find targets by sonar and are invulnerable to hostile cruise missiles during approach to target.
Surface warships needed a longer-range weapon to attack Soviet warships, which could fire their anti-ship missiles from 250 nautical miles.
Surface search radars cannot be used for long-range anti-ship targeting (over-the-horizon targeting) because of their inherent horizon-limited range, about 2—50 miles.
The challenge was not to build a 250-nautical-mile-range missile but to plan a targeting system for it.
Critics doubted that a task group would fire weapons over the horizon at targets that task group sensors could not locate, since the probability of missing the targets would seem to be high, making an over-the-horizon attack an act of unilateral disarmament.
The same critics accepted that the large Soviet anti-ship cruise missiles were threats from 250 nautical miles' range. Rear Admiral Walter Locke, the cruise missile project officer, asked the John Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory and the Harpoon seeker contractor, McDonnell Douglas, to investigate whether a Tomahawk could search for a target inside an area of uncertainty. emphasis mine
Replacing the Tomahawk anti-ship missile turbojet with the costlier land-attack Tomahawk turbofan engine could increase TASM range to over 300 nautical miles to allow the missile to fly search patterns. In 1975 the applied Physics Laboratory developed search patterns so that the Tomahawk anti-ship missile was capable of autonomous scouting and strike missions.

The next problem was how to get surveillance information to the launching ship for over-the-horizon targeting.
Opponents within OSD refused to authorize funds for research into over-the-horizon targeting, but the Naval Electronics Systems Command funded an experiment called Outlaw Shark.
For this experiment, a computer database was set up at the Submarine Operational Command Center in Naples, Italy and another computer was installed aboard a submarine.
The Naples Outlaw Shark system copied operational intelligence data being collected for later transmission to a Sixth Fleet aircraft carrier, condensed the data and relayed it without delay to the submarine over a computer-to-computer encrypted radio data link.
Outlaw Shark, gotta love the Navy's names :)
Sometimes the submarine received intelligence data only six minutes after the occurrence of the event being described. The submarine's computer correlated the intelligence data with its own contact data and prepared search patterns adequate for an immediate Tomahawk anti-ship attack.
In December 1976 the submarine used this system to generate search patterns for actual ships not held by its own sensors.
Analyses showed that the search patterns would result in Tomahawk hits on those ships.
The first test of a Tomahawk anti-ship missile was a launch at a target hulk 224 nautical miles away.
The Tomahawk flew 175 nautical miles to the target and began searching.
It then flew 173 nautical miles in search patterns and found the target.
This was the first long-range anti-ship cruise missile flight not to use a data link between the missile and a controller.
Tomahawk anti-ship missiles became operational in 1982.
In contrast to the procedure for early Tomahawk land-attack missiles, for the anti-ship mission the ship controlled all targeting and planned the entire strike mission.
Tomahawk weapons control systems were SWG-2 for armoured box launchers and SWG-3 for vertical launch systems.
Each provided track – and launch control functions.
The ship used the launch-control group to track the status of the Tomahawk missiles and to fire them.
The Tomahawk anti-ship missile used the Harpoon active radar guidance section with a passive seeker for identification and direction finding.
The missile classified and prioritized targets to attack the most valuable target.

As with Harpoon, Tomahawk anti-ship missiles could fly dogleg courses so that they could attack from unexpected directions and in such a way that missiles from one or more ships arrived on target simultaneously.
The ship kept a database of surface ships in her assigned patrol area on the track-control group computer.
In the initial Tomahawk weapons control system, each ship kept her own track database.
With newer versions, one ship was the force over-the-horizon track coordinator (FOTC) for a task group.
Track data came from the ship's own sensors, NTDS data links and intelligence sources.
General surveillance information came from surveillance satellites and aircraft, from SOSUS and from shore-based (Outboard) radio direction finding.
Each ship's Tomahawk weapon control system was linked to tactical information exchange satellite radio broadcasts (TADIXS and OTCIXS) over the ship's radios.

A newer system, JOTS, recorded data from OTCIXS and TADIXS broadcasts and maintained a local picture as seen by off-ship sensors.
JOTS used commercial computers and was entirely passive.
The ship could get into Tomahawk range without revealing her presence to the target.
A Tomahawk anti-ship missile could be fired as a "wake-up call" or "screaming meemie" towards a radio-silent enemy battle group.
It the enemy ships would switch on their radars to target the actively searching Tomahawk, a follow-on strike could exploit the newly available locating information.
Spruance class destroyers and Ticonderoga class cruisers can use their long-range passive towed-array sonar to locate targets over the horizon.
Submarines have long used the same tactic.
:D
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by Karan M »

End range discrimination will be a mess. Doubtful if current tomohawk has that as it stands. We are talking of a highly expensive MPA level SAR/ISAR capability all deployed into a single seeker ($$$$). Better to have optics for end game target matching and a datalink to get Man In the Loop (perhaps NLOS datalink to orbiting UAVs).
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by brar_w »

End range discrimination will be a mess. Doubtful if current tomohawk has that as it stands
It most probably doesn't but it does have a data link that will feed into the stuff. Also the current soft tests for the Tomohawk were just for demonstrations, the definitive requirements haven't been released to the vendors and are still work in progress. If the Tomohawk is tasked with such a role the next block would have to incorporate stronger sensors or stronger data links but besides completely shifting to a LRASM sensor and autonomy you can't really match those requirements against a force like China that can play in the air, space and cyber domains. That is why there will be a competition and Tomohawk will have to compete for that role against the likes of a LRASM sensor based weapon mounted on a JASSM-XR weapon that will eventually replace the ALCM.
Last edited by brar_w on 24 Sep 2015 18:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by Austin »

Austin
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by Austin »

This kind of money keep business going for big US companies

China Inks Deals Worth $38 Billion to Buy 300 Boeing Jets
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by ashi »

China's new Long March 11 Rocket roars into Orbit for the first Time
Long March 11 is the next in a line of launch vehicles being inaugurated by the Chinese as part of the beginning of a major transition in rocket technology - switching from a toxic propellant combination to environmentally friendly propellants for medium- and heavy-lift rockets and solid propellant for light-lift vehicles. The first vehicle out of this new line of rockets to make its debut was the Long March 6 that completed its maiden flight on Saturday, demonstrating key-pieces of the future Kerosene - Liquid Oxygen rockets.
Long March 11 was kept under tight wraps - no detailed technical information had been released after its development was announced in 2013 when the China Academy of Launch Vehicle Technology detailed its concept of a solid-fueled, quick response launcher that could be affordable by many institutions needing access to space. The development timeline for the CZ-11 rocket was rather steep with its development officially announced in 2013 along with the target of launching the rocket before 2016 - an ambitious goal that was met Thursday night.
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by Austin »

Office of Naval Intelligence Report on PLA Navy 2015

http://www.oni.navy.mil/Intelligence_Co ... ow_Res.pdf
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by ashi »

PL-15 is China's best and baddest aerial weapon yet
Chinese Air-To-Air Missile Hits Targets, Spooks USAF General
Even in the prototype stage, the PL-15 is already an international star. Speaking at the 2015 Air Force Association conference the same week as the test, USAF Air Combatant Commander General Hawk Carlisle cited the PL-15 as the reason for Congress to fund a new missile to replace the American AMRAAM. His reasons for concern is the PL-15's range. By incorporating a ramjet engine, its range could reach 150-200km, was well as its terminal maneuverability. That would out-range existing American air-to-air missiles,
Compared to the PL-12, the PL-15 has an improved active radar seeker and jam-resistant datalinks, along with a dual pulse rocket motor to extend its range.
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by TSJones »

I would point out that the spooking of US Generals is part of the annual Congressional budgetary requests process. It's how things are done in the US. It doesn't mean the needs aren't real, it's just....well.......they're spooked, and they really want the program to be funded. All US Generals are easily spooked by enemy weapons systems. It their natural state of mind. The poor things can't hardly sleep at night.
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by brar_w »

If one watched the event he spoke in general "out-sticking-the-enemy" terms. Clearly when your opponents close down the gap between your longest, range BVR weapons and their's you need to do something about it. He wasn't spooked as the article suggests but merely pointing out a strategy for investing in maintaining the edge in BVR weapons that the USAF has always aspired to maintain. This edge is reflected in the constant upgrades and the sheer procurement numbers of these weapons and how fast they acquire large inventories of the latest variants. The AMRAAM-D for example has already delivered more than 1000 missiles and it was declared operational this March. Even his predecessor (General Mike Hostage) at the very same event (Air & Space Conference-2013) spoke of developing new weapons and also addressing other major issues of Magazine depth with 5th and 6th generation fighters. Since then, there have been investments made and capability demonstrated and at least three OEM's have either demo'd a next generation weapon (to replace or complement the AMRAAM) or have presented designs and tests on AMRAAM complements that are a separate research field. Its just that the USAF and the other organizations (DARPA) are not talking about it other than the rare sharing of information from one of the OEM's. Even the F-35 community chose not to talk about it and said that its a matter for a "classified" briefing the last time they were asked about the Next weapon. The Aim-120D already adds to the range increase of the Aim-120C5 and getting even more range is not a very significant issue, after all there is the option of going to a dual pulse motor, a multi-pulse motor, or even a VFDR ramjet which Aerojet was first to operationalize in the world through the Coyote. If they need just longer range then thats an easy fix and you can get that into the Aim-120E for example. However that is unlikely to be the only thing they want as is evident from a host of research and development contract awards particularly to Boeing and Raytheon over the last 10 or so years.

Boeing Phantom Works May Unveil New Projects
s Boeing (Chalet 321-324) ready to reveal more of its secrets? Boeing Phantom Works President Darryl Davis told a media group in May that the company’s secretive advanced-design-and-prototyping unit would unveil some previously undisclosed programs this summer, "in the next month or two," and that these would be separate from the unit's work with Saab on the T-X program.

Aside from the T-X, where Boeing and Saab are believed to be building a company-funded demonstrator aircraft, the Phantom Works is thought to be working on a stealthy unmanned air vehicle prototype aimed at the U.S. Navy’s Unmanned Carrier Launched Surveillance and Strike (Uclass) requirement, and possibly at emerging Air Force needs as well: Davis talked in May about a “gap” between highly stealthy UAVs, which tend to be costly and require special sensors, and the “permissive airspace” MQ-9 Reaper.

However, not all the Phantom Works’ projects directly involve aircraft. Davis also disclosed that the Phantoms had conducted four flight tests under the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency's Triple Target Terminator (T3) program. The test vehicles, about the size of an AIM-120 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile, flew "faster and farther" than an Amraam, Davis said, but he did not provide any other details. Another current project is Phantom Fusion, an avionics architecture that is intended to make modifications easier to integrate and to share across different platforms. “It does the same thing to the weapon system that Apple does with the iPhone,” Davis says.

Under the “create, develop, produce, support” structure introduced a few months ago by Boeing Defense, Space & Security, Phantom Works is responsible for all next-generation programs and advanced technology work, including campaign-level simulation.
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by hnair »

Well, we all have to wait for Denel/Kentron brochures to know if PL-15 is a dual-pulse as it claims or not. Until then, we got to brace selves for these artist impressions of a ducted missile.
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by brar_w »

China’s First Domestic Aircraft Carrier Almost Certainly Under Construction
China has quietly begun construction on its first domestic aircraft carrier in the same northern Chinese shipyard that refurbished the People’s Liberation Army Navy’s current Soviet-era carrier, USNI News has learned.

Several sources confirmed to USNI News that an unknown shipbuilding project — first noticed publically by Jane’s in late February — is almost without a doubt the bones of the PLAN’s first domestically-built carrier.

Sources pointed USNI News to an April photograph that emerged on the Chinese language Internet of a ship under construction at the Dalian yard believed to be the super structure PLAN’s second carrier.

Further late September satellite photographs published by Jane’s last week show a ship that corresponds to the dimensions of the refurbished Kuznetsov-class aircraft carrier Liaoning — a ship with a beam of about 115 feet and a length of 886 feet.

Jane’s stopped short of a definitive determination that the mystery ship at Dalian was a new carrier — the Type 001A — but did compare the construction methodology of the ship to Soviet-era builds on the original Kuznetsov in the 1980s.

The interest to what is in the Dalian dry dock — once the home for Liaoning’s refit after China purchased the carrier — has been a hot topic of conversation for international naval watchers.

One, retired U.S. Navy Capt. Chris Carlson, told USNI News given how quickly the Dalian yard builds commercial ships the timing of construction pointed toward a military platform.

“We’re talking eight months from March when they say the initial sections began going up,” he said on Wednesday.
“If it was commercial ship it would be done already.”

Carlson said the Jane’s photographs indicate the ship is being built without a well deck which would likely rule out a big deck amphibious warship.

“The logical explanation is that it’s a carrier,” he said.
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by Paul »

Image
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by Karan M »

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Zhuhai-2014.html

PLA Munitions as of date... they are about 5 years ahead of us. But we are making a rough equivalent in most categories, NGARM, NG-LGB/WingKit, MPLGM, CLGM, Helina, Astra Mk1/Mk2..
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by member_28756 »

Paul wrote:Image
Before 1996 the IAF already had the Mig 29 and Mirage 2000 in service a clear advantage, back then the PLAAF only had the Mig 21s and Mig 19s. That was time to make the move.
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by Singha »

but sire the key diff is by 1996 they had done a lot of ground work to lay a wide and deep base for their domestic aeronautical industry...they had extensively localized the soviet designs including the engines.

- copied the Mig-21 into a J-7 with new wing
- the FBC-1 (JH7) heavy fighter...using RR spey engines
- J8
- the AN12 - root node of all their AEW planes now
- the H-6 ... Tu16 badger - now their refuelers and missile truck
- the 1st model of the J10
- primitive early gen AAM

all of this work paid off later . all the above were primitive by stds of Mirage2K or Mig29 but trained a lot of people in the entire lifecycle of design, making and fixing mistakes, and production in large numbers. AT WORST they were very useful skill building projects.

they implanted missing technology first with a huge Su27 order, then rapidly cloning it into J11 (shadow license production), later blocks of J-10....I think the mix of trained people + money + technology took off fast after 2000 resulting in the J20/J35/Y20/C919/WZ10 going ahead. the initial work would have started 5-10 years before the world saw the first protos o the ground. in parallel missile and A2G programs were giving a good boost.

HAL struck to being accha baccha and did not 'clone' and adapt the Jaguar or Mig27 into some indic versions which were doable...thats because all IAF wanted was the best available imported kit for the budget and did not demand that local kit be made in LARGE nos. they were content being a medium size with more sophisticated gear.

now they are demanding babies from local wombs but without being caring fathers and husbands earlier :oops:
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by member_22539 »

Singha wrote:now they are demanding babies from local wombs but without being caring fathers and husbands earlier :oops:
+1. So true.
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by Karan M »

MANNY K wrote:
Paul wrote:Image
Before 1996 the IAF already had the Mig 29 and Mirage 2000 in service a clear advantage, back then the PLAAF only had the Mig 21s and Mig 19s. That was time to make the move.
60 Mig-29s and 50 Mirage 2000s...hardly an earth shattering advantage
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by suryag »

Added to that 50% or lesser of the 29s available at any time
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by brar_w »

Any idea on what the availability rate is for the current fulcrums (IAF)?
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by member_28756 »

Karan M wrote: 60 Mig-29s and 50 Mirage 2000s...hardly an earth shattering advantage
Compared to the Mig 21s and Mig 19s of the PLAAF I think it is.
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by member_28756 »

Singha wrote:but sire the key diff is by 1996 they had done a lot of ground work to lay a wide and deep base for their domestic aeronautical industry...they had extensively localized the soviet designs including the engines.

- copied the Mig-21 into a J-7 with new wing
- the FBC-1 (JH7) heavy fighter...using RR spey engines
- J8
- the AN12 - root node of all their AEW planes now
- the H-6 ... Tu16 badger - now their refuelers and missile truck
- the 1st model of the J10
- primitive early gen AAM

all of this work paid off later . all the above were primitive by stds of Mirage2K or Mig29 but trained a lot of people in the entire lifecycle of design, making and fixing mistakes, and production in large numbers. AT WORST they were very useful skill building projects.

they implanted missing technology first with a huge Su27 order, then rapidly cloning it into J11 (shadow license production), later blocks of J-10....I think the mix of trained people + money + technology took off fast after 2000 resulting in the J20/J35/Y20/C919/WZ10 going ahead. the initial work would have started 5-10 years before the world saw the first protos o the ground. in parallel missile and A2G programs were giving a good boost.

HAL struck to being accha baccha and did not 'clone' and adapt the Jaguar or Mig27 into some indic versions which were doable...thats because all IAF wanted was the best available imported kit for the budget and did not demand that local kit be made in LARGE nos. they were content being a medium size with more sophisticated gear.

now they are demanding babies from local wombs but without being caring fathers and husbands earlier :oops:
No doubt their Aerospace industry were hungrier and more eager to advance and make a profit compared to HAL.
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by Austin »

Singha wrote:HAL struck to being accha baccha and did not 'clone' and adapt the Jaguar or Mig27 into some indic versions which were doable...thats because all IAF wanted was the best available imported kit for the budget and did not demand that local kit be made in LARGE nos. they were content being a medium size with more sophisticated gear.
You need to look things into perspective here , HAL is not a independent organisation that works outside MOD , it need to take such desision after getting all the Dots and I's vetted by MOD and IAF

IF HAL Submits a proposal to MOD to reverse engineer Jags , 27 or even the 21 it would have been a strict NO from them , that would have infringed copy right and IP of West and USSR companies , leading to either complete stop of support from the OEM if they know about such an effort.

China never had such issue they were under sanction since 50-60's from USSR and West , so what ever they procured from USSR in 50/60 they could happily reverse engineer it without any fear of rebuttal from both and they had nothing to loose trying to reverse engineer if they suceeded it good if not well nothing to loose much other then time and effort.

China was in a unique position at that point in time where they could experiment with lot of things as they had no other options. Well they managed to suceed in their effort is another story

Forget the 70's and 80's , even the late 90's effort by HAL to develop HTT-35 and LUH that was displayed as mockup at Aero India didnt receive much kudos from MOD and they were quietly shelved
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by Aditya G »

I remember there was a thread on BRF "Should we manufacture more jaguars"

It need not have been unlicensed copies or fakes. For some reason we indians may lie, cheat as individuals, but as organisations we want to be the cleanest of the clean... sorry OT.

But we could have made more Jaguars. Today's jaguar with israeli radar and autopilot is a far cry from the original models. IAF could have accepted a reheated version of the engine instead of looking for a new engine altogether.

The lesson learnt is: make more Su-30s, Hawks, Dhruvs, LCH etc. Ensure you are vested enough to have an upgrade path to the airframes. Focus on making more parts in India, and maybe Indian weapons as well.
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by member_28756 »

Bangladesh Navy gives contract for two more C13B corvettes

http://www.bdmilitary.com/bangladesh-de ... desh-navy/
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by Austin »

Aditya G wrote:I remember there was a thread on BRF "Should we manufacture more jaguars"

It need not have been unlicensed copies or fakes. For some reason we indians may lie, cheat as individuals, but as organisations we want to be the cleanest of the clean... sorry OT.

But we could have made more Jaguars. Today's jaguar with israeli radar and autopilot is a far cry from the original models. IAF could have accepted a reheated version of the engine instead of looking for a new engine altogether.

The lesson learnt is: make more Su-30s, Hawks, Dhruvs, LCH etc. Ensure you are vested enough to have an upgrade path to the airframes. Focus on making more parts in India, and maybe Indian weapons as well.
Lets say when you say make , The Jags still had to import component for its Engine and other stuff , We still have to pay Lic Cost for building it at HAL to BA'e and its not a cheap aircraft either not to mention its role in IAF as DPSA.

The IAF still ordered atleast 4 Squadron of new Jags from HAL post 2000 when money started flowing in and they had opted for Darin-2/3 variant progresively more sophisticated and iirc many were dual seater too.

We really dont know how good the Chinese Aircraft built in 70's and 80's were , how they performed in squadron service and how they fixed issues encountered , Even the modern variant J-10 has not been exported so its difficult to judge its performance viz a viz its peers
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by NRao »

Good to note my old friend is hale and hearty.

For Xi, a 'China Dream' of Military Power

I am talking about Col lui Mingfu. Very interesting guy.
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by ashi »

First official footages of Iraqi CH-4B UAV
On Saturday morning of October 10th, 2015, Iraqi Defence Minister Mr. Khaled al-Obeidi visited al-Kut Air Base and oversaw the launch of the first official flight of Iraqi CH-4B drone that will be used against ISIS. Iraq ordered CH-4B UAV (Unmanned Aerial Vehicles) to China, probably after the visit of Chinese foreign minister in February 2014. According to Aero Histo sources, the first batch was received on January 23rd, 2015. First pictures of three units were seen in March.

They have already carried out reconnaissance missions from their own air base at al-Kut. The drone squadron is attached to Iraqi Army Aviation, not Iraqi Air Force as usual in others air forces. The pictures below show one CH-4B carrying HJ-10 ATGM (Anti-Tank Guided Missiles), equivalent of the AGM-114 Hellfire. A chineese operator can be seen behind Defence Minister, proof that Iraqi are not yet autonomous in their use. The CH-4 drone is inspired by the MQ-1 Predator and designed by China Aerospace Long March International (ALIT). This UAV is available in two versions: one that can carry a payload of 345 kg, the other of 115 kg.
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by Austin »

Iraq seems to be buying many Chinese Defence equipment lately quite interesting , The armed UAV is somethig they need badly in Iraq and Syria to deal with AQ/IS
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by Singha »

Karan M
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by Karan M »

MANNY K wrote:
Karan M wrote: 60 Mig-29s and 50 Mirage 2000s...hardly an earth shattering advantage
Compared to the Mig 21s and Mig 19s of the PLAAF I think it is.
How many of those airframes could you have put up in the air at any time, round the clock? You said time to make a move. Move where and how? Those 100 planes would not have single handedly won the Indian Army any conflict - see the terrain and see Kargil. At best we would have air superiority, and if the war had gone badly for China, before 1996, they had nuclear weapons operationalized & available in number, and we didn't.

So again, what does 100 planes bring us.. not much unfortunately.
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by Karan M »

Aditya G wrote:I remember there was a thread on BRF "Should we manufacture more jaguars"

It need not have been unlicensed copies or fakes. For some reason we indians may lie, cheat as individuals, but as organisations we want to be the cleanest of the clean... sorry OT.

But we could have made more Jaguars. Today's jaguar with israeli radar and autopilot is a far cry from the original models. IAF could have accepted a reheated version of the engine instead of looking for a new engine altogether.

The lesson learnt is: make more Su-30s, Hawks, Dhruvs, LCH etc. Ensure you are vested enough to have an upgrade path to the airframes. Focus on making more parts in India, and maybe Indian weapons as well.
+100
Rafale costs - $20 Bn. Say $1Bn were invested in localizing the Su-30s above and beyond Russian TOT - alloys etc. The serviceability gains would be substantive. But no... we will be good little boys and always look towards the next set of imports.
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by habal »

What happened to China's indigenous aircraft engine program, the WS-10A/B or something to be mated to J-11 Su-27 copy. At first there were reports it wasn't working well, then they bought the AL-31 something from Russia again in bulk to mate with these platforms built in China, then there were reports that manufacturing processes had improved and WS-10A/B had better reliability.

Any idea where this program stands as of now ?
Liu
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by Liu »

habal wrote:What happened to China's indigenous aircraft engine program, the WS-10A/B or something to be mated to J-11 Su-27 copy. At first there were reports it wasn't working well, then they bought the AL-31 something from Russia again in bulk to mate with these platforms built in China, then there were reports that manufacturing processes had improved and WS-10A/B had better reliability.

Any idea where this program stands as of now ?
the last squard of J10B now is using WS10 now.
J10 is a sole-engine bird.
so, PLA seems confident on WS10 now.
habal
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by habal »

ok but any independent sources verifying these claims. What is the status of AL-31 imports from Russia if WS10 is upto the task. What is the user experience like with the latest iterations of the WS10A. If it's being mass produced what is MTBO for later versions. Is China confident enough with the WS10 to let's say station a few J10B's in Syria.
Liu
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by Liu »

habal wrote:ok but any independent sources verifying these claims. What is the status of AL-31 imports from Russia if WS10 is upto the task. What is the user experience like with the latest iterations of the WS10A. If it's being mass produced what is MTBO for later versions. Is China confident enough with the WS10 to let's say station a few J10B's in Syria.
1.China's military bbs like cd is full of pictures that j10b propelled by ws10.
http://m.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=image& ... pe=fixnone
2.It is also reported that the last winner of 'gold helmet'(PLAAF' s best top gun) is a pilot of j11 propelled by ws10.

3.the pla j11 harrassing yankees p8 beside Hainan island also finished its topgun style trick with ws10 as engine.

4.some j15 on AC liaoning also uses ws10.

5.official news confirms that j31 finishef its maiden flight with another china indigenious engine,ws13,instead of russia rd93 people supposed..

BTW,after J31 was confirmed to use ws13,many people suppose that j20 is using a modified model of ws10,instead of russia ones supposed before.
Last edited by Liu on 17 Oct 2015 22:04, edited 1 time in total.
Liu
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by Liu »

Beside,some guys codes j10 with ws10 "j10c".

They said that not only its engine is replaced,but also radar is replaced with aesa.
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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by Austin »

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Re: China Military Watch - August 9, 2014

Post by member_28756 »

Comac rolled out their second jet passenger plane C919

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