Indian Navy News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

SSundar · Post by **SSundar** » 29 May 2016 10:58

ashokk wrote:Indian warship makes contact with Pakistani naval vessels near western coast

Looks like we could use a translation to layman's English here. Who followed who? Who detected who? Who warned off who? Article is a bit confusing. In the event that this ship was detected by Pakis, what does it imply for the effectiveness of its stealth technologies?

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 29 May 2016 11:49

presentation about Cochin Shipyard:

http://www.slideshare.net/innovasjonnor ... n-shipyard

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 30 May 2016 08:53

Scorpene run may extend beyond 9,media report today.To keep MDL busy.Strat partner required fro the 75I prog. However,unl;ess the extra Scorpenes are much improved versions,and at what huge cost (?),they will be inferior to those subs that Oz and others are acquiring.The German U-boat option must be pursued as well.

The decision to ban Finnmecc. entities is having a devastating effect on the IN.127mm main guns for warships,torpedoes,radars and even avionics for Kamov ASW helo upgrades are supposed to bveing affected. The IN is on a hunt now for alternatives which given the MOD's track record will take ages.This will seriously affect the delivery of warships,subs,etc. under construction. To me this is overreaction.AW alone should've been blacklisted and serious warnings to the group about other deals. Perhaps the NDA smells a rat in these other deals and is trying to flush out vermin if money was handed over.With the deals now junked,we may see Finnmecc turning on elements of the fromer regime for compensation!

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 30 May 2016 08:57

There is only one solution. Indigenous production. If we start better today in those areas we are no where there then well and good.

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 31 May 2016 04:01

This will be music to many BRFites ears:

Defence Ministry eyeing optimal resource utilisation for more submarines & advanced frigates

NEW DELHI: The defence ministry is doing a rethink on a prohibitively expensive naval programme for a futuristic aircraft carrier and is evaluating options for more optimal utilisation of resources for other critical purchases — like submarines and advanced frigates.

Officials have confirmed to ET that the Navy's plan for a 65,000 ton nuclear-powered aircraft carrier to be fitted with an American catapult system is not likely to get financial clearances soon as the ministry was looking at other options. While a detailed project report for the carrier is ongoing and the Indo-US Joint Working Group on Aircraft Carrier Technology Cooperation (JWGACTC) is in place, officials say that the next step involving release of more funds could be deferred.

A reason for the rethink is the massive cost involved in the new-age aircraft carrier. By conservative estimates, the cost of construction of the carrier itself, without the aircraft, would exceed Rs 70,000 crore. The high cost is primarily due to the integration of the nuclear plant as well as the American electromagnetic aircraft launch system (EMALS) being planned.

With other critical naval projects requiring attention — including two lines of indigenous nuclear powered submarines — a line of thinking within the defence ministry is that allocating huge resources to a single platform would not be prudent.

"The aircraft carrier itself is expensive and also requires a number of warships and platforms around it to operate at sea. We also have other pressing needs of the Navy to consider," a defence ministry official said.

Finally, someone is applying their mind, instead of pursuing advanced (and expensive) US technology like fanboys.

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 31 May 2016 04:25

Thank god, some one is using their brains. Now hopefully IAC-II will be ordered from Cochin soon enough.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 31 May 2016 04:33

At that cost we may have a half a dozen SSNs in the blue waters without any required support ships and also without the required man power and other expenditure. In fact we can have a dozen SSNs if all the other ships cost also. One or two Vikranth class ships may be required to be built as the design is already finalised and may be much cheaper option if we want to have a 3 AC navy.

srin · Post by **srin** » 31 May 2016 06:02

One thing worryingly missing in all of MP's interviews is the status of ASW choppers. We are desperately short and S-70 was cleared long ago, so I'm baffled at the seeming lack of progress on it.

sankum · Post by **sankum** » 31 May 2016 06:49

IN is getting ASW Dhruv for anti sub operations.

Getting only 24nos S70 for anti sub operation is not prudent. Better go for NMRH for which EC725 is likely to win as in coast guard tender and now comes with folding tail option and heavy anti ship missile Exocet carrying capability.

For Dhruv only two blade manually folding option with one blade forward is accepted by IN.

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 31 May 2016 06:56

That's good news! How many dhruv's on order for ASW? The order is still under negotiation correct?

sankum · Post by **sankum** » 31 May 2016 07:08

There were reports. Cleared by DAC. Final order still has to take place. Too much lobbying against and for.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 31 May 2016 07:35

ALH has a cabin almost the size of S-92 due to ALH advanced design. If we put in 1200-1300kw engines instead of present 1000kw engines, then 8-9ton MTOW helo which will be adequate for 90% of Naval purposes. In the meanwhile we can develop IMRH.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 31 May 2016 08:18

MOD twitter a/c has pics of DM visiting the scorpene production line in mumbai recently. I feel sure more will be produced. its too precious to throw away after just 6. another 6 perhaps. this will almost totally replace the 10 kilo + 4 hdw numbers. the P75I when it materializes will be the force accretion.

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 31 May 2016 09:25

Gyan wrote:ALH has a cabin almost the size of S-92 due to ALH advanced design. If we put in 1200-1300kw engines instead of present 1000kw engines, then 8-9ton MTOW helo which will be adequate for 90% of Naval purposes. In the meanwhile we can develop IMRH.

I don't think its the engines that are an issue. Number of torpedoes carried and the area that the helo can cover due to on-station/loiter time. If perhaps IN can put in two lighter torpedoes or use only one torpedo with external fuel tanks like S-92, it might even mitigate the need for a larger platform. A larger platform would be nice, but the DDG's carry two helicopters anyways. Make do with what we have till perhaps we order a mid sized platform or get IMRH off the design-lab to production.

vonkabra · Post by **vonkabra** » 31 May 2016 10:39

Per The Hindu, Mazgaon Dock has commissioned a second assembly line for Scorpenes (the first line is for the original 6) and the DM has stated that the government would order 2-3 additional Scorpenes to keep the production lines running:
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/s ... 663565.ece

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 31 May 2016 11:39

sankum wrote:There were reports. Cleared by DAC. Final order still has to take place. Too much lobbying against and for.

sankum wrote:IN is getting ASW Dhruv for anti sub operations.

What reports? 16 Utility Versions have been ordered each for ICG and IN 322 Squadron Kochi to augment/replace old Chetaks of 321 Squadron

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 31 May 2016 12:17

Cybaru wrote:
Gyan wrote:ALH has a cabin almost the size of S-92 due to ALH advanced design. If we put in 1200-1300kw engines instead of present 1000kw engines, then 8-9ton MTOW helo which will be adequate for 90% of Naval purposes. In the meanwhile we can develop IMRH.
I don't think its the engines that are an issue. Number of torpedoes carried and the area that the helo can cover due to on-station/loiter time. If perhaps IN can put in two lighter torpedoes or use only one torpedo with external fuel tanks like S-92, it might even mitigate the need for a larger platform. A larger platform would be nice, but the DDG's carry two helicopters anyways. Make do with what we have till perhaps we order a mid sized platform or get IMRH off the design-lab to production.

The new engines are already 1200kw. Aren't they?

Added later: Seems like max mower is just above 1000kw. HTSE 1200 makes more sense now.

sankum · Post by **sankum** » 31 May 2016 15:14

DAC cleared Rs 7000Cr order for 16 nos Dhruv each for CG and IN.

If it was utility ALH for both IN and CG it would not have cost more than Rs 2400Cr.

The Rs 4600 Cr is for the weapons, sensors, support structure for the ASW and utility version. According to CAG ASW version of ALH is to be rapidly configurable for utility version by removal of ASW equipment.

The reports I am talking of is various news reports for and against ALH for IN and CG over the years.

No report so far that IN has definitely gone for ASW version of ALH finally except bloggers and some reports say is under negotiations. One news report was IN was testing ASW ALH.

To fold four main rotors manually would have taken double the time than folding two rotors and keeping one rotor forward. This report that IN has accepted two bade folding option is also from a news report.

ALH ASW version is a capable platform in endurance comparable to S 70 and it seems lobbying is on to prevent ASW ALH from induction in favour of commercial 24nos S 70 asw platform and then go for NMRH.

Hopefully RM will push forward ALH and cancel S 70 deal.

kit · Post by **kit** » 31 May 2016 17:14

Not really a good idea to sell UAE the brahmos missiles.. they are in bed with PK for very long now

kit · Post by **kit** » 31 May 2016 17:17

Kakkaji wrote:This will be music to many BRFites ears:

Defence Ministry eyeing optimal resource utilisation for more submarines & advanced frigates

NEW DELHI: The defence ministry is doing a rethink on a prohibitively expensive naval programme for a futuristic aircraft carrier and is evaluating options for more optimal utilisation of resources for other critical purchases — like submarines and advanced frigates.

Officials have confirmed to ET that the Navy's plan for a 65,000 ton nuclear-powered aircraft carrier to be fitted with an American catapult system is not likely to get financial clearances soon as the ministry was looking at other options. While a detailed project report for the carrier is ongoing and the Indo-US Joint Working Group on Aircraft Carrier Technology Cooperation (JWGACTC) is in place, officials say that the next step involving release of more funds could be deferred.

A reason for the rethink is the massive cost involved in the new-age aircraft carrier. By conservative estimates, the cost of construction of the carrier itself, without the aircraft, would exceed Rs 70,000 crore. The high cost is primarily due to the integration of the nuclear plant as well as the American electromagnetic aircraft launch system (EMALS) being planned.

With other critical naval projects requiring attention — including two lines of indigenous nuclear powered submarines — a line of thinking within the defence ministry is that allocating huge resources to a single platform would not be prudent.

"The aircraft carrier itself is expensive and also requires a number of warships and platforms around it to operate at sea. We also have other pressing needs of the Navy to consider," a defence ministry official said.

Finally, someone is applying their mind, instead of pursuing advanced (and expensive) US technology like fanboys.

Very good !! .. shoring up the depleting submarine fleet is the topmost priority !! ..the carrier can wait another 5 years

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 31 May 2016 19:43

Kakkaji wrote:This will be music to many BRFites ears:

Defence Ministry eyeing optimal resource utilisation for more submarines & advanced frigates
Finally, someone is applying their mind, instead of pursuing advanced (and expensive) US technology like fanboys.

music to my ears at least. i have always asked this simple question. why get fancy gear@ unaffordable prices, when your current stuff is languishing for lack of fuel, spares, investment in your people.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 31 May 2016 19:47

Singha wrote:MOD twitter a/c has pics of DM visiting the scorpene production line in mumbai recently. I feel sure more will be produced. its too precious to throw away after just 6. another 6 perhaps. this will almost totally replace the 10 kilo + 4 hdw numbers. the P75I when it materializes will be the force accretion.

thanks to those arms dalals, we now have to sit and qualify new torpedos with the scorpene.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 31 May 2016 19:53

New orders for costly equipment brings loads of bribes while improving availability of old equipment is mostly thankless hard work.

keshavchandra · Post by **keshavchandra** » 31 May 2016 21:43

Project Versha, IN underground base project close to Visakhapatnam. I do not know how much authentic the info is.
https://youtu.be/-DHJLnPMuAo

sum · Post by **sum** » 01 Jun 2016 06:50

^^ Very interesting document with loads of info and pics:
IN officers articles for FICCI

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 01 Jun 2016 08:52

The second line can put together any class of boat as required by the sub arm. It is premature to associate it with scorpean only.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Jun 2016 09:21

Sea hake is used by TSP , so not a great option.

the only remaining and reliable choice is the american Mk48. its about 1 foot shorter than the WASS.

FMS deal should be possible and we could get it some quickly from surplus inventory which the USN surely maintains for its vast sub fleet. for 6 scorpenes probably 120 would be plenty enough.

member_29378 · Post by **member_29378** » 01 Jun 2016 09:28

A better option would be to use the new F21 torpedo. The French Navy has already placed orders for them, plus there wont be compatibility issues as both are French systems.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 01 Jun 2016 12:12

The Germans lost the U-216 bid to French sub as german sub was considered too noisy says Australian news paper , will have implication for our bid too

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nationa ... 9e4f0faac2

Wonder if Germans Engineering lost the fine art of building good subs and the mantle of Europe has now passed to French?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Jun 2016 12:12

F21 is FOC: thats probably why DM is not worried and staying calm.

vina · Post by **vina** » 01 Jun 2016 13:05

ALH has a cabin almost the size of S-92 due to ALH advanced design. If we put in 1200-1300kw engines instead of present 1000kw engines, then 8-9ton MTOW helo which will be adequate for 90% of Naval purposes. In the meanwhile we can develop IMRH.

The Dhruv was first fully certified on the LHTEC T800 ending (1200kw / 1600 shp) engine, which is an engineering marvel with very low SFC. The Turbomeca engines were got on board and the entire certification redone after the nuke tests.

The Turbomeca Ardiden website says it has a range from 1000hp to 2000 shp. In case the Ardiden can't be scaled, the LHTEC engine can be a back up.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Jun 2016 14:03

they have developed higher power variant ardigen3 and presold it to china and russia . our helis have the ardiden1
they also have higher band of engines starting with the makila & RTM322(NH90,AW101,british apaches)

All Ardidens are equipped with the latest-generation, dual-channel Full Authority Digital Engine Control (FADEC). The Ardiden family is divided into two groups: the Ardiden 1, which offers 1,400 shp with growth potential to 1,700 shp, and the Ardiden 3 (in development), covering 1,700 to 2,000 shp.

Today, over 220 Ardiden 1 are in service throughout the world. They are installed in the Druhv, LCH (Light Combat Helicopter) and LUH (Light Utility Helicopter), all built by India's Hindustan Aeronautics Limited.; Russian Helicopters' Ka-62; and the AC352 from China's AVIC Helicopter.

- See more at: http://www.turbomeca.com/helicopter-eng ... jTHp5.dpuf

kit · Post by **kit** » 01 Jun 2016 17:37

An American game plan for Asia ?

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htsub/ ... 60601.aspx

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-bu ... ower-15120

Interestingly it looks like the US indeed has a game plan to "use" India and Australia as counters to Chinese naval expansion !!!!

and the Australian subs are useful to keep India in check , and India by virtue of investing huge resources on aircraft carrier will be hobbled in its underwater force !

The US will have its cake and eat it too .. the tom tomming of its "help" to India is indeed not without some deviousness on its part

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 02 Jun 2016 07:30

The cancellation of Black Shark Torpedo has implication even if SSBN program , the first SSBN have Russian torpedo the next 3 were suppose to also get integrated with Black Shark , Now the option is French F-21 or Germany's 'SeaHake'

Contract for 98 Black Shark torpedoes scrapped, Indian nuclear submarine programme further delayed

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 02 Jun 2016 09:02

What about Varunastra HWT, as per wiki its development got completed in March 2016?

It's about time we start cutting away these leaches.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 02 Jun 2016 09:32

Varunastra as tsarkar pointed out seems to have only one variant, which is ship launch. So whether a submarine launched variant is there or work on the follow on to Takshak is going on is not known. But if we can get a good ship launched Torpedo like Varunastra and Advanced Light Weight Torpedo (ship+heli) inducted, then possible that we are pretty close to a submarine launched Torpedo.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 02 Jun 2016 10:37

Oz's subs are also meant to keep India in check,spot on! Spending vast amounts of money on a US style N-powered supercarrier will cripple the rest of the fleet,esp the sub fleet. This is why even the Brits wisely rejected expensive bells and whistles for their QE carriers,when they had access to any US naval carrier tech.They chose to go in for ski-jumps and STOVL JSF fighters and and a conventional powerplant instead saving billions of pounds..

The priority of the IN for the next decade is to beef up its sub arm asap. Nothing less than 12+ N subs and 24+ conventional/AIP boats will do to meet the joint Sino-Pak UW challenge,that's also leaving aside "friendly" subs fleets operating in the IOR like OZ,USN,NATO,etc. The foll. report shows how China is ramping up its fleet deployment in the IOR,here with port calls in Tanzania. Amazingly,decades ago,the Tanzanians wanted India and the IN (so impressed with an IN task force that visited it,and requested the CO who later on became a celebrated CNS) to design and provide it with a modern navy.It took one yr. for the MOD to sanction 2 economy class tkts for IN officers to visit! Needless to say,by then they had lost interest at our "alacrity".

On the centenary of the Batttle of Jutland,the greatest ever naval clash in history,the situ is strikingly similar to that of today.The German fleet wanted to "breakout" of the constraints imposed upon them by the RN.These days,it is the PRC and PLAN which wants to "breakout" of the "Indo-China Sea" from their "first ocean chain" into the IOR and Pacific. Theb IN will have to possess a large sub fleet to sanitise the approaches into the IOR and any PLAN assets that may have slipped in earlier before the crisis erupted and interdict the PLAN subs/warships,like the US did with the Japanese at the Battle of the Palawan passage part of the Battle of Leyte Gulf where they suffered large losses.

China Sends Warships to Tanzania, as It Shifts Naval Focus to the Indian Ocean
By Joshua Philipp, Epoch Times | June 1, 2016 AT 6:48 AM
People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy sailors stand on the deck of a Chinese warship at the international port in Manila on April 13, 2010. China recently sent three warships to Tanzania for discussions on anti-piracy operations. (Ted Aljibe/AFP/Getty Images)

The Chinese navy docked three ships at Tanzania’s Dar es Salaam Port on May 30 for a four-day meeting on how to fight piracy in the Indian Ocean, according to a report from state-run news outlet Xinhua.

Chinese diplomats and Tanzanian Navy officials attended a welcoming ceremony at the port, and the brief report notes the Chinese navy has been sending warships to the Gulf of Aden since December 2008 (as have many other nations) for escort missions, mainly due to the threat of Somali pirates.

The more important element to this story, however, is what’s not being said. The real story was detailed in a report published in The Namibian on Nov. 19, 2014, which said China was planning to build 18 naval bases with a goal to surround the Indian Ocean.

It said these alleged naval bases would be in countries including Tanzania, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Burma, Djibouti, Yemen, Oman, Kenya, Mozambique, Seychelles, and Madagascar. The source of the article in The Namibian was a 2013 story published in a Chinese state-run newspaper, the International Herald Leader.

The Chinese regime initially denied the report, but in the time since then, China has signed deals with every country listed to either gain port access or cooperate on building new ports.

China has also been stirring up trouble with India, with naval incursions that Indian officials have deemed too close for comfort. As Indian defense officials began to express their concerns, a senior captain from China’s National Defense University warned India on June 1, 2015, saying the Indian Ocean is not India’s backyard.

I detailed some of these incidents in a report on Oct. 26, 2015, and explained that China has a long-term interest in gaining influence over key chokepoints, and all signs suggest that the Indian Ocean will be its next naval focal point.

Richard Fisher, senior fellow with the International Assessment and Strategy Center, said in a previous interview that “one of the opening moves in China’s quest for global military and economic dominance” is to first break out of the South China Sea, “and then project into the Indian Ocean.”

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/2080394 ... ian-ocean/

China Pushes ‘No First Use’ Lie for Proposed Nuclear Sub Patrols By Joshua Philipp,http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/2079443 ... bar=morein

He also notes that in 2000, the CCP “adopted a nuclear doctrine which allowed for ‘a preemptive strike strategy,'” to use “its tactical nuclear weapons in regional wars if necessary.”

The use of pre-emptive strikes is still a key element in Chinese military writings, and as Michael Pillsbury notes in his book, “The Hundred-Year Marathon,” this concept is at the heart of its “Assassin’s Mace” strategy, which the CCP has designed to defeat technologically superior opponents such as the United States. The strategy includes the use of high altitude EMP (HEMP) attacks, which would leverage the EMP field generated by nuclear weapons to destroy communication and control systems of a targeted country.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 02 Jun 2016 13:17

Philip, you are looking about short term timeframe and thinking that what Britain did is right and India must follow. The British time is over and these will be their last carriers and what they did by going for a conventional carrier is absolutely right decision by them. In our case Indian economy will be around 10 trillion in the next 15 years time and it will keep growing. So there is no point in saying that India must have conventional carriers and when Indian role will be more global there will be need for nuclear powered carriers. That will happen for sure. The only thing that we can discuss at the moment is for the time being whether the second ship can be a larger conventional one or a large nuclear powered carrier.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 02 Jun 2016 17:13

No one is saying that we must not possess N-powered CVs,but at what cost at this moment in time? If there is another global eco meltdown as some are predicting,there will be huge demands on the economy from various sectors,agri,etc.and the defence budget as usual will stagnate.Our N-sub fleet is the key factor in securing our strat. second strike and crippling the PLAN.A sister ship to the Vikrant will make it easy for crew transfers,training,operations,spares and maintenance,etc. One can see after that whether a larger N-powered carrier is needed esp with UCAVs and drones getting into naval service post 2020.

More bad news for the sub fleet.In retrospect,cancelling the Blackshark torpedo deal may have been unwise.We are fast becoming the laughing stock worldwide for our bumbling defence purchase policies.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/torp ... e]Contract for 98 Black Shark torpedoes scrapped, Indian nuclear submarine programme further delayed
Three of the four SSBNs were to have been equipped to fire Black Shark heavyweight torpedoes, whose purchase the Ministry of Defence (MoD) cancelled last week.

Sandeep Unnithan | Posted by Bihu Ray
New Delhi, June 1, 2016 |
Indian nuke submarines torpedoed

98 Black Shark torpedoes has directly impacted the project
Torpedoes are self-propelled weapons with explosives packed in their nose

The scrapping of a Rs 1,800 crore contract for 98 Black Shark torpedoes last week has directly impacted a critical strategic project, the construction of four 'Arihant' class ballistic missile submarines (SSBNs).

Three of the four SSBNs were to have been equipped to fire Black Shark heavyweight torpedoes, whose purchase the Ministry of Defence (MoD) cancelled last week. The cancellation would mean modifications to the SSBN's torpedo tubes and delay induction of the second vessel by two to three years. Torpedo maker Whitehead Alenia Systemi Subacquei (WASS) is a subsidiary of Italian arms manufacturer Finmeccanica. The MoD believes Finmeccanica subsidiary AgustaWestland paid bribes for the 2010 purchase of 12 VVIP helicopters for Rs 3,760 crore.

"Alternatives (to Black Shark) are being considered, but at this stage it will not be possible to divulge further details," an MoD spokesperson told Mail Today. The spokesperson declined to comment on the nuclear submarine project.

Torpedoes are self-propelled weapons with explosives packed in their nose. They are a submarine's primary weapon and when fired through torpedo tubes, home in to destroy their targets - ships or other submarines.

Arihant class SSBNs, a key to the nuclear triad of land, sea and air launched weapons, carry four to eight K-4 nuclear tipped ballistic missiles with a range of 3,500-km, far away from land and safe from any adversary's pre-emptive strike on Indian nuclear assets. SSBNs rely on the unlimited power of their nuclear reactors for endurance and on torpedoes as defensive weapons. The Arihant, which completed deep water and weapon trials this year, is armed with the Type 53-65 Russian torpedoes and fire control system and thus unaffected by the cancelation.

It is the second SSBN, the Aridaman, now in an advanced state of construction at the Ship Building Centre, Visakhapatnam, that has been equipped to fire the Black Shark. The Aridaman is due to be inducted by 2018.

The submarine's manufacturer Larsen and Toubro conducted nearly 20 simulated 'swim out' trials of the Black Shark from indigenously designed and torpedo tubes. The trials were conducted at a special L&T facility in Pune between 2013 and 2014.

While the 98 Black Shark torpedoes cancelled by the MoD were meant for the six Scorpene class submarines being built at Mazagon Docks Ltd, the nuclear submarines were to get a second batch of 49 torpedoes to be imported under the defence procurement procedure's option clause. The Italian torpedoes had been integrated with French assistance into the indigenous 'Saransh' submarine combat system on the Aridaman and two sister ships -- the S4 and the S4*.

FUTURE PROJECTS RISK A SIMILAR FATE

Without torpedoes, the strategic platforms will be incapable of defending themselves from enemy submarines or warships. These vessels, naval officials fear, could meet the fate of the first of the Scorpene class conventional submarines being built at the Mazagon Docks Ltd. The first Scorpene, the Kalvari, is currently on sea trials in the Arabian Sea without torpedoes. Naval officials say it will be commissioned by the year-end without torpedoes.

Five more Scorpene type submarines, due to join the Navy in intervals by 2022, risk a similar fate given the delays in the torpedo project.

"Scrapping the contract is an illconsidered move done purely for political reasons," Rear Admiral Raja Menon (retired) told Mail Today. "It (the Black Shark) is the best torpedo in present circumstances. An alternative will mean time and cost and inconvenience," he said.

The time and cost delays could flow from the fact that submarines are only configured to fire a particular make of torpedo. The weapon has to be hooked up to the submarine's fire control system (FCS) which converts electronic inputs from the vessel's sensors into geometric coordinates for it to pursue a target. The Navy's existing Russian torpedoes cannot be fired from the Kalvari or the Aridaman class submarines without hardware and software modifications in those vessels.

The MoD put the case for acquiring the Black Shark on hold after bribery allegations in the VVIP deal surfaced in 2013. Price negotiations with the Italian firm had concluded in 2013 after it emerged as the lowest bidder, edging out a German torpedo maker Atlas Elektronik.

In 2014, the Navy pushed the case to buy the torpedo citing an urgent operational necessity which was accepted by the government, but the procurement did not go through as a cautious MoD waffled over the file.

In January this year, Vice Admiral Dinesh Prabhakar (retired), Director General of the classified ATV Project which builds the submarines, wrote a letter to National Security Adviser Ajit Doval warning of delays in the Aridaman if the torpedoes did not come on time. He requested for the option clause for 49 Black Sharks to be exercised to firewall the ATV project from the bribery controversy. The strategic project is directly supervised by the Prime Minister's Office and the NSA.

The latter is believed to have communicated the project team's concerns to Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar. The government changed tack with the April 7 verdict of an Italian court convicting senior Finmeccanica officials of bribery and the resultant political battle in Parliament last month that saw the BJP attacking the Congress over the scandal. All contracts carried out by Finmeccanica and its subsidiaries now face the defence ministry axe. The Navy, which has five critical projects with the firm, is likely to be the worst hit (SEE BOX). But clearly it is the delays to the nuclear submarine fleet that promise to hit hardest.

GRIEVOUS BLOWBACKS

The MoD's options to replace the Black Shark have narrowed down to two - government to government purchases of Germany's 'SeaHake' or France's 'F-21' future heavyweight torpedo. The most optimistic assessments within the Navy say it will take between two and three years for new torpedoes to be acquired and several hundred crores of rupees to modify the submarines to fire them. Grievous blowbacks from a kickback scandal.
[/quote]

PS:Can't understand why the torpedoes for the SSBNs and subs have been so badly mishandled.
This is primarily the IN's fault having no back up plan.We well know that any kind of sanctions would cripple our sub fleet,esp the N-subs. Our N-subs especially should've been configured to fire both Russian and Western torpedoes.Either Ru and German or Ru and French/whatever. The U-boats and Scorpenes ,both belonging to NATO nations could've had our Scorpenes configured to fire both types/two types. Since our nuclear sub programme owes a lot to the Russians,it would've made more sense to go in primarily for Russian torpedoes and weaponry since we've never had a problem obtaining Ru torpedoes for our Kilos,Foxtrots,Arihant,Akula,etc. Moreover,even if there is a delay in orders for some genuine reason,our inventory of the type common for both the 9 Kilos and N-subs would be huge and the sub in question armed from the ready stock.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 02 Jun 2016 17:28

PPS:Hilarious.France,DCNS,winners of the fab Oz sub contest proposes a tie-up with defeated rival Germany's ThyssenKrupp,ostensibly to keep European sub industry competitive against competition from SoKo,China and ahem...India!

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 536617.cms