India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Suresh S · Post by **Suresh S** » 30 Nov 2016 06:28

RD and RR yes I do agree with the general line of thinking here. We must continue to do as stated above and continue to prepare for the final push. My thinking, though one is never completely ready Modi will be ready by the middle of his next term.

krishna_krishna · Post by **krishna_krishna** » 30 Nov 2016 06:47

Rdevji Spot on. I would add one more thing here, every time new porki chief comes this happens (Kiyanahi, RS and now Gazwa) this is messaging and chess play. They want to call our bluff that we can walk our talk. The key is if you do something audacious/ insulting that takes porki army H&D down the drain. They will behave, they have faith in kiyanahi's harpal bector rocket. They think they are invisible, now it should not be surgical strikes by Special forces but it should be something different (we have multiple ways to skin the cat).

RR I do not agree that they are not rational. we need to humiliate them period no point of confusion or denial public jhappad. We can control the ladder of escalation

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 30 Nov 2016 07:14

Perhaps the reported movement of forces from Afghan border to LoC was done with this in mind. Carry out another terror attack and shore up the border so that surgical strikes become more difficult.

Pakis have upped the ante, let's see how we respond.

Bheeshma · Post by **Bheeshma** » 30 Nov 2016 07:29

I understand anger in people but with Modi govt not so worried. I know pakis will pay dearly with their blood.

Guddu · Post by **Guddu** » 30 Nov 2016 07:41

Our response will be different this time, perhaps not on the LOC at all, it will not be another fire fight at the LOC (though they may continue in the background).
Note: that so far none of the ministers are talking about muh tod jawab. This is a big improvement from before, where we served dosas during MMS tenure, then we talked about muh tod jawab during Modi's first year, then surgical strikes, IWT threats, isolation of pakis and now we wait for the next step.

sum · Post by **sum** » 30 Nov 2016 07:55

Bheeshma wrote:I understand anger in people but with Modi govt not so worried. I know pakis will pay dearly with their blood.

^^+1.

From whatever has transpired so far, it does seem like NaMo and Doval-ji at the helm is just like any BRF-jingo at the helm. So, if the BRF-ites are feeling so angry, i would assume that our top guys are seething in rage and just desserts will be served in due course ( IF it was UPA, i would have braced myself for some gyan by folks like SSMenon and random ministers about the need to enable the India loving folks in TSP etc but things are different now)

aditya · Post by **aditya** » 30 Nov 2016 08:12

http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-epa048 ... 33626.html

DIG BSF, BS Kasana, who is among those critically injured in Samba.

khan · Post by **khan** » 30 Nov 2016 09:22

Guddu wrote:Our response will be different this time, perhaps not on the LOC at all, it will not be another fire fight at the LOC (though they may continue in the background).
Note: that so far none of the ministers are talking about muh tod jawab. This is a big improvement from before, where we served dosas during MMS tenure, then we talked about muh tod jawab during Modi's first year, then surgical strikes, IWT threats, isolation of pakis and now we wait for the next step.

Response could also be unconventional - Baluch, MQM, "Bad Taliban" - take your pick.

ranjan.rao · Post by **ranjan.rao** » 30 Nov 2016 09:52

KK Ji: They may be rational at sub conscious level or by a fluke but the very fact that they are engaged in an ideological battle with a state like us even after all that has happened to them speaks volumes about their rationality or at least the perception of it. The fact that they are playing with a guy(mudy) who didnt even spare the opposition in his own party indicates their foolishness.

That said today not the day of disagreeing, today is the day to remember those who laid their lives for our nation (perhaps like any other) and strengthen our resolve to not sit in peace till the time these pigs and their very nation rests in peace.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 30 Nov 2016 11:22

They are willing to fight till the last Seraiki, Kashmiri, Baloch!!

^ very well put!

going by how Dawood & other &^%$£"! have survived so long in Pk one wonders if India has any assets in Pados.

There is always some groups killing some other groups in Papiland

Response could also be unconventional - Baluch, MQM, "Bad Taliban" - take your pick.

Exactly. No shortage of guns and ideologies for hire in shitistan

ricky_v · Post by **ricky_v** » 30 Nov 2016 11:53

it would have been a bigger disaster, theses assholes are operating under a ballsier sop now. thankfully for everyone, our womenfolk are not one to shy of confrontation.
http://www.msn.com/en-in/news/newsindia ... li=AAaeRVN

The courage and bravery shown by wives of two army officers who were staying in the family quarters in the army camp helped avert a major hostage crisisduring the encounter with militants in Nagrota on Tuesday.
Soon after the heavily armed terrorists disguised in police uniform entered an army unit located within three kms from the headquarters of the 16 Corps, they wanted to enter the family quarters where they could take the families of the soldiers and officers hostage.
However, due to the bravery of these two women, who were staying in the family quarters along with their newborns, the terrorists failed to implement their plans.
“The wives of the two army officers, who were on night duty when the encounter broke out, displayed exemplary courage as they blocked the entry of their quarters with all the household items, making it difficult for the terrorists to break into the houses,” an army officer privy to the encounter told PTI.Had the women not shown this alertness, the terrorists would have been able to take them hostage and would have succeeded in causing huge damage to the army and the families, he said.
“The terrorists entered two buildings which were occupied by officers, families and men. This led to a hostage-like situation. The situation was very quickly contained and thereafter, in a deliberate operation all were successfully rescued, which included 12 soldiers, two women and two babies,” defence spokesman Lt Col Manish Mehta said.
The two babies rescued are 18 months and two months old, the officer said.
However, in the rescue attempt one more officer and two jawans sacrificed their lives, the spokesman said.
He said the bodies of three terrorists have been recovered and operations were in progress to sanitise the complete area.
“The terrorists forced their entry into the Officers Mess complex by throwing grenades and firing at the sentries. In the initial counter action, one officer and three soldiers of the Army were martyred,” he said.
The Army has not called off the operation but suspended it as they want to be fully sure that the area has been completely sanitised.
“The operation is going on, we have suspended it for the night, but the area has been placed under tight cordon, the Army does not want to take any risk and we will resume the operations with the first light of the morning,” the spokesman said.

arun · Post by **arun** » 30 Nov 2016 12:26

When confronted with attacks on our Military Bases at Pathankot, Uri and Nagrota in a compact time frame resulting in our Military suffering higher casualties than the Mohammadden Terrorist attackers, I wonder if Auric Goldfinger might have said “Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is incompetent action”:

Intelligence warned of imminent attack, spotlight now on poor security at camps

Rishi Verma · Post by **Rishi Verma** » 30 Nov 2016 12:35

I am hoping and praying that sooner rather than later gwadar be brahmosed with 250 strikes. That is one symbolic place to send tastier than pork chinnis and holier than pork pakis a message.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 Nov 2016 12:43

In.US there is an active shooter drill.where people under attack are advised to barricade themselves from the attackers. The two ladies did awesome job.

Need to make this SOP for families posted at units neat borders.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 30 Nov 2016 12:45

ramana wrote:In.US there is an active shooter drill.where people under attack are advised to barricade themselves from the attackers. The two ladies did awesome job.

Need to make this SOP for families posted at units neat borders.

foolish to have families there

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 30 Nov 2016 12:56

Nagrota is not border area. Jammu city is closer to border than Nagrota.

Chetak saar, people like to have families around. I am sure you know that already.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 30 Nov 2016 12:59

aasifsuhaf News24 ‏@asifsuhaf 28m28 minutes ago
Army Subedar Diwan singh injured Pakistani firing at Hathi Maidan Sector #Poonch #Jammu Shifted to Military Hospital @news24tvchannel

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 30 Nov 2016 13:02

a) boss nagrota is not near border .though no harm in teaching basic precautions b) chetak ji...i dont think u know a sh!t about having families along with soldiers when they on rest and recuperation. its imp for men to spend time with their families, wives, children. nagrota is not some godforesaken place on a mountain top..its a proper town. c) i can tell u that its not possible to protect army vital area, family area etc all at same time given the spread of such facilities ..determined and trained men will always find many ways to enter. actually i am surprised by the low count of casualties. even in uri incident, the fuel depot burning casued max casualties. I have been to and stayed in virtually all army areas south of pir panjal in J&K and its virtually impossibe to provide fool proof security to all army installations including family area. Family area is usually not so well protected.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 30 Nov 2016 13:15

Few more 155mm and 120mm mortar rounds needed to wasted now on pakis. A good amount of wastage is required from time to time.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 30 Nov 2016 13:22

ABP News ‏@abpnewstv now55 seconds ago
Three terrorists neutralised in #NagrotaEncounter belonged to Jaish-e-Mohammed: Sources.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 30 Nov 2016 13:48

jamwal wrote:Nagrota is not border area. Jammu city is closer to border than Nagrota.

Chetak saar, people like to have families around. I am sure you know that already.

Then they have to pay the price.

After uri, nagrota should have gone on very high alert and remained at that state, especially, especially peaking during the paki COAS changeover. Why not mine the approach to the camp?? save the well defended main entrance??

Attention and scarce resources are needlessly diverted because mostly officer's families are involved. The casualties at nagrota were high because families were to be defended, in addition to sorting out the terrorists.

Highways pass close to very sensitive camps so that the hostile locals always know what exactly is happening. Divert these roads and keep a safe distance to the camps. MoD has sanctioned only barbed wire fencing in many camps whereas high concrete walls topped by pressure sensors and electrified wire is the minimum required. NVDs are either not issued or not working. There is nothing proactive, only reactive, leaving all the advantage with the pakis.

How is it that security is breached so often and so regularly?? One, because the perimeter fencing is not up to the mark and two, there seems to be little or no second line of defence actively deployed.

The old and hoary chestnut about "determined men" is wearing really, really thin. Aren't our men equally "determined", if not more??

You need to learn the lesson only once, if you are smart. I am not criticizing anyone but I am terribly pissed off at the needless waste of precious lives camouflaged as "sacrifice" and "martyred". No one dies willingly, they die because there is no other option at that specific time and most options have been taken away from these men by not providing support services and proper essential equipment.

The lesson is the same everywhere and different places don't have different lessons, only different implementation of the basic lesson tailored for that location

most of the targets being attacked now have been surveyed long ago and detailed plans have been made by the pakis for the attack. They need a bit of latest intel and the old plans are dusted off and maybe adapted a bit, before they are launched. Most attacks are late night or early dawn.

I would be auditing and wargaming the security on a continuous basis, using experienced field officers and men from different units and locations. My heart goes out to these precious and brave souls who often die in vain with no lessons being learned.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 30 Nov 2016 14:01

chetak ji..all folks with their heart in right place are pissed off but ...a) mined the approach to the camp !!! do u even have an idea what u r talking about? b) boss troops come from active duty to family stations/peace stations to be with family, children. c) we need to inflict significantly more pain on pakis for any change ... u can never secure such big stations against intrusion.

if u have been to nagrota ever....there is civilian road running in between the boundary walls of the army area... the sides are open to vegetation, forest and civilian houses.. markets..

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 30 Nov 2016 14:06

manjgu wrote:a) boss nagrota is not near border .though no harm in teaching basic precautions b) chetak ji...i dont think u know a sh!t about having families along with soldiers when they on rest and recuperation. its imp for men to spend time with their families, wives, children. nagrota is not some godforesaken place on a mountain top..its a proper town. c) i can tell u that its not possible to protect army vital area, family area etc all at same time given the spread of such facilities ..determined and trained men will always find many ways to enter. actually i am surprised by the low count of casualties. even in uri incident, the fuel depot burning casued max casualties. I have been to and stayed in virtually all army areas south of pir panjal in J&K and its virtually impossibe to provide fool proof security to all army installations including family area. Family area is usually not so well protected.

I am third generation Armed forces with a VrC in the family. Next generation is already in and the one after that is hell bent on signing up.

I do thank you for enlightening me about how important a soldier's family is.

I would not have known otherwise.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 30 Nov 2016 14:11

manjgu wrote:chetak ji..all folks with their heart in right place are pissed off but ...a) mined the approach to the camp !!! do u even have an idea what u r talking about? b) boss troops come from active duty to family stations/peace stations to be with family, children. c) we need to inflict significantly more pain on pakis for any change ... u can never secure such big stations against intrusion.

if u have been to nagrota ever....there is civilian road running in between the boundary walls of the army area... the sides are open to vegetation, forest and civilian houses.. markets..

Maybe that is the problem. hostile rubbernecking locals would find it easy to scope out the place. By mining, I meant clear an area outside, around the perimeter, fence and mine that area. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 30 Nov 2016 14:19

Imho this years border war we have shown ample resolve and capability that we can take on and punish both pak army and jehadis.

We need to take it up one level by killing JeM HVT. A deep special operation by RAW is in order.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 30 Nov 2016 14:28

IMHO i think that is perhaps what Chetak Ji is referring to.

He is not referring to the town, but rather to the army camp/installation

In these times (post our strikes and the border being warm) reduce risk of collateral targets (families) being hit by not having them at army installations and camps. Kind of like how the villagers on the LOC are evacuated.

RandR is vital to soldier morale. But at this time when the border is warm and attacks are happening, let the RandR happen by sending the soldiers (i am referring to those based in J&K) to their families at their homes, on the prescribed rotational basis. Perhaps the soldiers themselves might feel better if their families are away from possible danger.

Agreed, it might not be possible for all. Some, especially the officers, might be having families staying with them on the base. Perhaps some with children attending school in the town.

But some risk reduction could and should be done by not having family (especially children) at the army installations/camps, at this moment.

manjgu wrote:a) boss nagrota is not near border .though no harm in teaching basic precautions b) chetak ji...i dont think u know a sh!t about having families along with soldiers when they on rest and recuperation. its imp for men to spend time with their families, wives, children. nagrota is not some godforesaken place on a mountain top..its a proper town. c) i can tell u that its not possible to protect army vital area, family area etc all at same time given the spread of such facilities ..determined and trained men will always find many ways to enter. actually i am surprised by the low count of casualties. even in uri incident, the fuel depot burning casued max casualties. I have been to and stayed in virtually all army areas south of pir panjal in J&K and its virtually impossibe to provide fool proof security to all army installations including family area. Family area is usually not so well protected.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 30 Nov 2016 14:36

Typed my above post a long time ago but submitted it afterwards. Didn't see the later posts especially those by Chetak Ji

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 30 Nov 2016 15:33

Nagrota is not a field Area it's a ****** family station. Clueless people on this forum peddle all kinds of B and mods do absolutely nothing. I have lost friends and coursemates in some of the attacks and it pains me how some people on BRF have very little understanding of ground realities on anything related to Indian military.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 30 Nov 2016 15:49

Manish_P wrote:Typed my above post a long time ago but submitted it afterwards. Didn't see the later posts especially those by Chetak Ji

I bitterly regret the loss of precious lives of soldiers and the lame excuses of the MoD for not providing equipment and facilities to the troops. There is very much more that I cannot discuss on an open forum.

Many demobbed troops have PTSD and a lot of them are not fully treated for want of specialized facilities and often end up fending for themselves, not understanding their medical condition and their families are even more helpless in trying to cope with the situation.

I know that the IA units have spent money from their own regimental funds to provision BPJs for their troops. WTF should this happen?? Baboo(n)s have surreptitiously wrangled GOI permission for medical treatment for themselves for themselves and their families at hospitals abroad, swamp IA canteens where they have no business and use / misuse IA facilities with impunity, knowing that they will never be refused and yet, not enough BPJs for the troops??

How can troops be expected to go into battle without BPJs?? at the very least??

Is this the sort of misappropriated "civilian control" that we need?? or is it simply a grotesque distortion of what the baboo(n) feels is his right over the Forces. A pox on all their houses.

There is a serious malady in the thought process of the GOI that has tolerated this nonsense for seventy odd years and it still does not look like it's coming to an end.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 30 Nov 2016 15:49

My heart goes out to the families of our martyred brave soldiers. Salute to the martyrs for their exemplary bravery and sacrifice.

In battle of attrition, Army losing many of its fighters - Dinakar Peri, The Hindu

The dramatic increase in number of casualties among security force personnel in Kashmir is deeply worrying many in the security establishment.

On Tuesday, at least seven Army personnel were killed and many, including BSF personnel, were injured in two terrorist attacks.

The bloodiest of the two attacks of the day, on an Army mess in Nagrota, came on the day when Pakistan Army got its new chief, General Qamar Javed Bajwa, who replaced General Raheel Sharif. The militant strike on the Nagrota mess in Jammu came exactly two months after the Army carried out surgical strikes on terror launch pads across the Line of Control (LoC).

With the latest incident, 89 security personnel have been ‘killed in action’ in Jammu and Kashmir this year. Of these, 27 were lost post the surgical strikes carried out on September 29. The attrition rate among the Army has been growing tremendously with respect to the terrorists killed.

Informed sources said the high attrition rate particularly of officers in the Army, the world’s highest, can be detrimental in war. “If the company commanders and the second-in-commands get killed in the first wave, there will be no one else to lead or fight during actual war,” one source said.

Experts said there was a low-risk option being employed by the adversary, and stressed the need to revisit practices to minimise casualties.

“This time, India’s resolve to hit back in the form of surgical strikes has put the other side in the defensive. For them this a low-cost, high-visibility option,” Lt. Gen. S.L. Narasimhan, a former Infantry Officer, told The Hindu .

New reality in Kashmir

According to data, in the new wave of attacks, militants are able to inflict many more casualties on security forces with each attack than in the past. Data show that while the total number of violent incidents in Kashmir has only gone up marginally from previous years, the number of security personnel killed or injured has dramatically risen.

Until Tuesday evening, at least 89 security force personnel had been killed in Kashmir, while almost 200 have been injured.

With another month to go, this year’s casualty figures among security forces could end up being the highest in a decade.

In 2007, security forces lost 122 of its men. The numbers dropped to 57 in 2008, and by 2012 the number of security forces killed in terrorist attacks fell to 15. It then began to climb. In 2013, a total of 53 security personnel were killed.

Similar trend is visible in the number of security personnel injured in J&K.

“We have a very unsettled situation since 2014. The government needs to get its act together,” an Army officer posted in J&K said.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 30 Nov 2016 16:00

chetak...i can only say inspite of ur obviously fine pedigree, ur suggestions border on the insane. as kapoor says nagrota is a family station. i am only saying go and visit a station like nagrota and see how feasible is to mine the periphery. A very important family station in north india has the city public bus come inside the camp with miles of its periphery in forested area and a raliway line practically running withing its boundary . many army facilities are not in 1 central location... spread out in the town or city. IMHO it is impossible to secure all army installations with fence, mines !!, NVD's! !! soldiers patrolling 24*7!! !!. so only the most important few have walls, fencing, patrolling.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 30 Nov 2016 16:03

We have to hit Paki Barracks with Artillery/ MLRS. We need to wait and Hit, send UAV for recce operations at nights plot them out and hit hard. The causalities for PA need to be high.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 30 Nov 2016 16:04

Akshay Kapoor wrote:Nagrota is not a field Area it's a ****** family station. Clueless people on this forum peddle all kinds of B and mods do absolutely nothing. I have lost friends and coursemates in some of the attacks and it pains me how some people on BRF have very little understanding of ground realities on anything related to Indian military.

If it comes under attack and civilian safety is compromised, maybe it's time to rethink the " ****** family station " status, especially in cashmere where a paki pasand govt is in charge with hard hold over vital ministries and portfolios and the hapless partner BJP is, by force, in spectator mode.

The families certainly did not sign up for this. They is no insurance cover or death benefits for them.

Alternately, fortify it properly and be done with it. This level of causalities is unacceptable. Modi needs the second term or the country is done for. This matter has passed the solely military dimension and has increasingly rising and fast crystallizing hostile political consequences for Modi in particular.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 30 Nov 2016 16:06

Aditya_V wrote:We have to hit Paki Barracks with Artillery/ MLRS. We need to wait and Hit, send UAV for recce operations at nights plot them out and hit hard. The causalities for PA need to be high.

satellite imagery won't do, saar??

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 30 Nov 2016 16:14

Sir. With all due respect, that is why exactly why some of us (i can speak only for myself) come to BRF forums... to gain a better understanding.

Not all of us are aware of all points military.. and unfortunately you are not the only one who has lost friends/coursemates.

Some (myself included) have lost immediate family.

So please calm down and help the lesser knowledgable by explaining things you are aware, of in a civil way maintaining the decorum. I think the mods will certainly appreciate it.

Akshay Kapoor wrote:Nagrota is not a field Area it's a ****** family station. Clueless people on this forum peddle all kinds of B and mods do absolutely nothing. I have lost friends and coursemates in some of the attacks and it pains me how some people on BRF have very little understanding of ground realities on anything related to Indian military.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 30 Nov 2016 16:19

manjgu wrote:chetak...i can only say inspite of ur obviously fine pedigree, ur suggestions border on the insane. as kapoor says nagrota is a family station. i am only saying go and visit a station like nagrota and see how feasible is to mine the periphery. A very important family station in north india has the city public bus come inside the camp with miles of its periphery in forested area and a raliway line practically running withing its boundary . many army facilities are not in 1 central location... spread out in the town or city. IMHO it is impossible to secure all army installations with fence, mines !!, NVD's! !! soldiers patrolling 24*7!! !!. so only the most important few have walls, fencing, patrolling.

manjgu,

If my solutions are not feasible, then we should find others that are. Do not go on repeating that nagrota is a family station, over and over again. This family station is in cashmere and that makes it very special. To apply the same standards of an IA camp in coimbatore is a travesty.

Do you mean that we simply accept the damage and keep quiet?? If facilities are spread out then maybe it's better to consolidate.

Even installations close to the border are sometimes protected with only barbed wire. After 70 odd years, give or take, why are they not properly walled off and fortified?? because the baboo(n)s think that our soldiers are paid to die??

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 30 Nov 2016 16:24

Manish_P... even a fence, wall with mines is of no use unless its under constant observation. this is basic premise of perimeter defence. a well trained person can breach fence, mines in no time. what all will u fence ( and ooops mine) and have it under 24*7 observation. chetak..i am saying the defence of our home and hearth lies not so much in fencing etc as it is taking the battle to the enemy. With due respect..as per news reports there was no loss of lives of families.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 30 Nov 2016 16:48

manjgu Ji

The fencing suggestion is from Chetak ji

i am saying the defence of our home and hearth lies not so much in fencing etc as it is taking the battle to the enemy

I agree 100% with your point above.

And even then it is not a given that there will be no casualties at home.

If that was the case then, the US which mostly fights it's wars far away from it's land and has not fought any border wars for the past so many decades would not have had 9/11, boston bombing etc happen to them.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 30 Nov 2016 16:55

manjgu wrote:Manish_P... even a fence, wall with mines is of no use unless its under constant observation. this is basic premise of perimeter defence. a well trained person can breach fence, mines in no time. what all will u fence ( and ooops mine) and have it under 24*7 observation. chetak..i am saying the defence of our home and hearth lies not so much in fencing etc as it is taking the battle to the enemy. With due respect..as per news reports there was no loss of lives of families.

lucky that there was no loss this time. Who will guarantee the same the next time??

It is however guaranteed that there will be a next time, for sure.

they have scoped out all the IA installations and will pick them off one by one in a cat and mouse game. How long will we continue to react only??.

first protect your house and only then look for the enemy.

Sure, we should take the fight to the enemy but our country seems to be confused as to who the "enemy" is, no??

paki people are our "friends" paki army is the "enemy"?? the two effing entities are one and the same, from the paki people springs the paki army.

underneath the effing salwars, the entire country is circumcised and we somehow continue to miss that vital fact and have willfully and foolishly continued to miss this elephant in the room, since independence.

Shut and seal the borders, stop all contact and business, and hit the SOBs hard and often in all international fora.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 30 Nov 2016 16:57

manjguji, may I request you to refrain from using Netspeak (u, ur, etc.) in your posts? I find it distracting from some very pertinent points being made.

Thanks.