LCA: News & Discussions - October 2016

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 05 Feb 2017 23:59

It would appear like there is no 'greenfield' assembly line for the LCA, existing buildings/hangars have been repurposed for it. Given the aircraft types assembled here previously and the rate of production the numbers HAL is currently projecting aren't surprising, can't really expect f-16/f-35 style 'fighter a day' which had an assembly line purpose built for the scale from day 1. Instead of adding another line (and another and another) what is maybe needed is building "the" assembly like that has a capacity of 30-40 per year.

In a couple of years the MKI line will shut down, and with the MRCA and FGFA not panning out as expected, the LCA will be the only fighter that HAL will manufacture. Unless it is unable to ramp up the production rate (and get the IAF to induct more of them) HAL will take a big hit on its topline. Expect to see HAL being more proactive going forward.

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 06 Feb 2017 00:11

abhik wrote:It would appear like there is no 'greenfield' assembly line for the LCA, existing buildings/hangars have been repurposed for it.

Not true. Plenty of photos in AK's article below. I'm just quoting the text.
December 18, 2013: First look at new Tejas facilities | HAL’s hi-tech Tejas hangar goes live; first aircraft likely in 3 months

Bangalore: Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) has set up a state-of-the-art facility with some of the best aerospace manufacturing technologies to take up the Tejas series production. With the built-up area of 28,000 sq meters, the Light Combat Aircraft (Production Group) has already started the series production of Tejas with the mandate of delivering the first aircraft (SP-1) to the Indian Air Force (IAF) by March 2014.

The new facility has LCA structural assembly hangar, two flights hangars and machine shops to augment the Tejas production. Backed with a workforce of over 700 personnel, with 80 per cent being in the average age group of 30 years, the set-up has come up with a sanction of approximately Rs 400 crore. Each Tejas platform should cost the IAF around Rs 200 crore. The equipment fitting on SP-1 began this year and 75 per cent of the aircraft structure is already ready. First 20 aircraft will be rolled out in the initial operational clearance configuration, while the next 20 will be in the final operational clearance format.

HAL plans to take the production rate to 16 aircraft per year from 2017 onwards. The facility will be upgraded to a major manufacturing complex consisting of sheet metal shop, process shop and heat treatment shop. Additional hangars are also coming up for support and maintenance, with further augmentation in the pipeline to accommodate the Tejas trainers and naval variant.

All hangars are equipped with forced draft systems to maintain dust, humidity and temperature control. HAL has given the mandate to head the new facility to V Sridharan, who has worked extensively on Jaguar and Hawk programmes. “We have embedded the Tejas production with best lean practices in manufacturing. Maintaining highest quality standards have been the driving philosophy behind while setting up this unit,” HAL chairman R K Tyagi told Express from Delhi. Batting for the private industry, HAL says that a total of 9362 fabricated parts will be manufactured by its external supply chain. “This step is critical in propelling HAL as a lead integrator in the national aerospace eco system,” Tygai said.

A gen-next 5-axis CNC machine installed at the facility is capable of robotically undertaking the wing skin drilling, thereby reducing the turnaround time by 80 per cent. The manufacturing jigs have been calibrated with computer-aided laser tracker to 80 micron tolerance. The manufacturing shop has been equipped with appropriate CAD software for working with digital mockup features.

To aid IAF’s Tejas squadron formation and associated flight operations, HAL has built a brand new 5000 sq meter tarmac right next to the manufacturing hangar. The flightline group from the new Tejas facility has supported six detachments (outstation trials) in this year. The Tejas variants have also logged the highest ever number of flights (485) this year.

Copyright@The New Indian Express

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 06 Feb 2017 00:13

NRao wrote:
Cain Marko wrote:I'm so desperately hoping that iaf orders at least another 40 deliverable by 2022 at foc.
I did a quick search:

1s by 2018-19.

1As Start 2021-22 !

So there is a gap of around 3 years where more mk1 could be purchased. Would be a tragedy of epic proportions if a nicely sorted and humming assembly line is kept still for want of orders or producing well below capacity at a time when iaf is desperate for numbers.

Current time lines show
9 birds by 2018
25 by 2019

Don't see why another 32-40 can't be squeezed in by 2021. Like i said, I'm praying for another order by iaf for mk1 around foc ceremony. Come on lads!

nirav · Post by **nirav** » 06 Feb 2017 01:19

Kakarat wrote:Anantha Krishnan M ‏@writetake 12m12 minutes ago

Here's #Tejas SP schedule at HAL for all those pinged me today, post my piece. 16-17: 5; 17-18: 8, 18-19: 12, 19-20: 16. In pic SP5.

5+8+12+16=41.
There's an error of the 1 extra or maybe that could be Mk1A PV.

If the above schedule is legit, peak output @16/yr is planned for 19-20 post which the line is intended to go @ 16/yr for the next 5 years.

Marten · Post by **Marten** » 06 Feb 2017 08:01

Indranil, is structural assembly different from final assembly? Is equipping done as a part of final stage in a different area? I mean will they transport a fully assembled and equipped plane from Nekkundi and reattach wings at final assembly?
Nirav saar, what about NP3 or any other Naval protos?

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 06 Feb 2017 09:18

LCA has a few main aircraft structures: front fuselage section, mid fuselage section, tail section and the wings. These 4 are structurally created separately and then coupled together. "Equipping" the aircraft can begin once the fuselage sections have been coupled. This is state in which you see SP-5 in. From this point onwards, the goal is to get aircraft delivered in 45 days giving rise to the 8 aircraft per year. However, currently, it is much more than that.

The wings are manufactured separately at L&T. Identification of partners to build the other fuselage sections is also underway. However, the bottleneck is going to be this equipment stage. HAL has to find a way of equipping the fighters faster, or more fighters in parallel.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 06 Feb 2017 16:49

Nowadays theres a tejas show every day in Namma Bengaluru, just now i saw a full vertical climb and then a loop. Awesome

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 06 Feb 2017 17:08

I think that the "3-4" are probably "extra" aircraft/yr rather than just "3-4". Anyway,shouldn't the PR bureau of HAL get its statement out first? On many other programmes in their dev. stage,we find lots of optimistic statements,but fewer once they reach the prod /delivery stage,when operational problems start surfacing.

PS:There has never been a clear picture ,official or unofficial,why Tejas prod. is small.Is it a lack of prod. facilities (requiring a second line),material supplies,skilled manpower, finance,dev. issues still , or what? It would be most helpful if this was available in some unclassified detail.

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 06 Feb 2017 19:31

Okay good we are all on the same page now! We can get back to tracking news on LCA!

Agreed Philip, but the idea of getting journalist at shop floor and show them LCA on the jigs and allow them to tour the facility is pretty darn good PR. I think we will hear more about Mk1A and Mk2 during AI-2017.

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 06 Feb 2017 19:50

Philip wrote:
PS:There has never been a clear picture ,official or unofficial,why Tejas prod. is small.Is it a lack of prod. facilities (requiring a second line),material supplies,skilled manpower, finance,dev. issues still , or what? It would be most helpful if this was available in some unclassified detail.

For that you need smart and more importantly interested enough journo who will ask such question rather than "Is this desi fighter any good compared to Foren mall..?" type rhetoric questions.

ranjan.rao · Post by **ranjan.rao** » 06 Feb 2017 20:13

abhik wrote:It would appear like there is no 'greenfield' assembly line for the LCA, existing buildings/hangars have been repurposed for it. Given the aircraft types assembled here previously and the rate of production the numbers HAL is currently projecting aren't surprising, can't really expect f-16/f-35 style 'fighter a day' which had an assembly line purpose built for the scale from day 1. Instead of adding another line (and another and another) what is maybe needed is building "the" assembly like that has a capacity of 30-40 per year.

In a couple of years the MKI line will shut down, and with the MRCA and FGFA not panning out as expected, the LCA will be the only fighter that HAL will manufacture. Unless it is unable to ramp up the production rate (and get the IAF to induct more of them) HAL will take a big hit on its topline. Expect to see HAL being more proactive going forward.

again what that means is that there is high chance HAL will be able to ramp up production rates, do we really need any teen, when our own kid can do well, even if teen delivery happens faster, setting up the eco system, designing war time doctrines/strategies will take time. Case in point that IAF had some Su-30 during kargill time but none of them saw action.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 06 Feb 2017 20:23

Cybaruji
Ananth was part of HAL before he left. So there must be enough trust and understanding to have let him in and give him such access.

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 06 Feb 2017 20:33

^^
Yeah, I knew that.

. Follow him on twitter and he is really fast in responding to questions or tweets.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Feb 2017 02:54

[url]India: Whither Navy’s LCA? – Analysis[/url]

While one would be justified in blaming the scientists and bureaucrats responsible for defence research and production, the root cause of this colossal failure lies in political indifference and the inability to provide vision and firm guidance to our massive but under-performing military-industrial complex.

*Admiral Arun Prakash (Retd) is a former chief of the Indian Navy. Comments and suggestions on this article can be sent to editor@spsindia.in

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 Feb 2017 07:54

SaiK wrote:
[url]India: Whither Navy’s LCA? – Analysis[/url]

While one would be justified in blaming the scientists and bureaucrats responsible for defence research and production, the root cause of this colossal failure lies in political indifference and the inability to provide vision and firm guidance to our massive but under-performing military-industrial complex.

*Admiral Arun Prakash (Retd) is a former chief of the Indian Navy. Comments and suggestions on this article can be sent to editor@spsindia.in

Blaming the politician can be further extended to blaming Nehru who believed that armed forces are unnecessary and helped fill up parliament with people who agreed with that. As a nation we (English speakers) equate ourselves with the west (nowadays USA) without understanding that most Indians still remain at a profound level of ignorance about technology and industry. This is easily seen by the total absence of science and technical material in the lay media represented by popular magazines bought by the lay public. The reason why you find hobbyists magazines in the west starting from aviation to aeromodelling to carpentry to boats to home repairs is because there are a large enough percentage of people who buy these and find them useful. Apart from glossy car and computer mags the only things that sell in India are fashion and Bollywood. And cricket. That is as much a reflection of our society as anything.

English speaking Indians lap up Popular Mechanics, Scientific American or Air Forces monthly because our country of 1,300 million people cannot generate enough expertise and circulation for such journals that one finds even in 70 million population Ye Olde Englande. And the state of regional languages in this department is no better

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 08 Feb 2017 09:55

Paging those forum members visiting Aero India -

1. Try to get a view from ADA on milestones remaining for Mk1 FOC, Mk1A, Mk2
2. Try to get a view from HAL on ramping up production, second line, challenges faced.
3. Try to get a view from IAF - ASTE & 45 Sq. Rest wont have any idea, just general opinion

That would give us a balanced view on how things are on the ground.

Needlessly to say, dont push for confidential information.

csaurabh · Post by **csaurabh** » 08 Feb 2017 11:18

shiv wrote:
SaiK wrote:
Blaming the politician can be further extended to blaming Nehru who believed that armed forces are unnecessary and helped fill up parliament with people who agreed with that. As a nation we (English speakers) equate ourselves with the west (nowadays USA) without understanding that most Indians still remain at a profound level of ignorance about technology and industry. This is easily seen by the total absence of science and technical material in the lay media represented by popular magazines bought by the lay public. The reason why you find hobbyists magazines in the west starting from aviation to aeromodelling to carpentry to boats to home repairs is because there are a large enough percentage of people who buy these and find them useful. Apart from glossy car and computer mags the only things that sell in India are fashion and Bollywood. And cricket. That is as much a reflection of our society as anything.

English speaking Indians lap up Popular Mechanics, Scientific American or Air Forces monthly because our country of 1,300 million people cannot generate enough expertise and circulation for such journals that one finds even in 70 million population Ye Olde Englande. And the state of regional languages in this department is no better

Very well articulated Shiv ji! This post needs to be preserved for understanding the total dearth of technological knowledge in India.

This malaise extends to the topmost levels such as IITs as well as to the bottom levels. Most of the faculty members at the 'top' institutions have never designed a research instrument ( not even basic ones ), a model aeroplane or robot, written a tech manual or maintained a functional codebase. They have largely turned out masses of theoretical papers for Western journals, most of which are nonsensical. At the bottom levels, we find a low level of competence at operating, maintaining machines ( of any type ), and skilled machine work is looked down on. While the skilled machinist in the West is also often an amateur designer and operator ( DIY hobbyist ) of anything from tabletop CNC machines to electric bikes to aeroplane models, we find technician level people totally lacking in any such desire and mostly whiling away their time in idle talks.

These attitudes are slowly changing - there are some excellent DIY websites out there now, you'll find some engineers have set up a small lab or workshop at home, some excellent periodicals like Electronics for You magazine and open source programming. But the general perception is still that of sloth and laziness and wanting to get some sort of overpaid 'management' job ( the American MBA ) or a 'government' job. Forget complex technology, how many people have you seen who can build and operate Gandhi's spinning wheel. This is because we as a nation have still not come out of slave-like mentality generated by colonial rule. Not only that, there has been an excessive amount of Brahmin-Baniya like thinking, too much interest in pie-in-the-sky theoretical stuff on one side and adherence to 'profitability' models ( which amounts to buying and selling, not technological innovation ) on the other side.

Our media simply reflects this fact. In fact, other than a shallow 'pop' culture ( consisting of Bollywood and Cricket ), there is virtually no real information available out there nor anyone to consume it. There is nothing like a critical review of Art history, or Indian philosophical schools. This is what Rajiv Malhotra refers to as the 'moronization' of India. A slave nation can be fine if it is a bunch of morons. For an independent nation, it is suicidal. Because of mental colonization, we forget to understand basic facts, such as spending 10 million $ on military or scientific research in the US is not the same as spending 10 million $ on military or scientific research in India. This is because the dollars are spent in buying components and supporting the military Industrial complex of the USA, which doesn't happen in India. If it is simply analyzed from the perspective of how much money is spent, that is missing the big picture.

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 08 Feb 2017 11:23

^^^ Csaurabh ji, OT for the thread but related to DIY, please check Makers Asylum at Mumbai

http://makersasylum.com/
https://www.facebook.com/makersasylum/

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 08 Feb 2017 12:38

Most manufacturers do take journos on all-up paid tours to do the needful.PR is vital when lobbying for orders. Even Russian manufacturers are now very open,with veteran AWST scribe Bill Sweeting having written sev. articles on Ru aviation,the T-50,etc. Russian use of European engines for aircraft and helos is another feature touted in their def. mags.

We however need a more professional approach to publicising and marketing our milware. First,we need to sell a variety of items,at least show how large qtys. of whatever the item is,is being bought and used by our own military. Our desi pavilions cannot compare with those of firang entities which have been very cleverly designed.Our pavilions are still in the Cold War era and those handling the stalls need to look smart and professional.Firang exhibitors are usually dresses to kill,all suited and booted,esp the women!

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 08 Feb 2017 14:07

Firangi exhibits are "cleverly" designed? How?
Desi ones are badly designed? Why?
Our pavilion is in Cold war era? Whats "Cold war" ish about them?
Furreigners looking smart and well dressed? The wimmens are dressed to kill - all suited and booted! And Indians are ugly?

Right outta DDM. 'Fess up. You are Sagarika Ghose aren't you?
OT. LCA thread. But has to be posted nevertheless.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 08 Feb 2017 15:36

there have been a series of television programmes in the UK and the US which has been reality tv of small groups of people who are set a technical challenge and a fixed time, budget and resources to deliver it. the UK version that first pioneered this was "scrapheap challenge" - there are various different versions now, I even saw one where amateur swordsmiths in amreeka were asked to make complex swords as a challenge...

"scrapheap challenge" had a great format - two competing teams (made up of engineers of varying levels but usually work buddies or club enthusiasts) have to build say a working hovercraft or an artillery piece that can throw an object x00 m's or a flying machine that can take xkgs across y distance. they can only use materials found in a junk yard and have a limited amount of time, plus a fully equipped workshop - all looking a bit out of Mad Max!

yes the show is contrived and I am sure that its pre-fixed to some extent (amazing how there is always a junked boat available when there is a water challenge!) - but it is compelling to watch the teams hammer, weld, grind their way through metal and lash together car engines and aircraft parts and jury rig a working machine and then do a competitive 'fly-off' at the end of it. lots of fauji engineers participate in this contest!

the viewing figures have been amazing and even quite young children get hooked on it.

given the Indian fixation with jugaaD this sort of thing ought to be hugely popular!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 Feb 2017 15:40

csaurabh wrote: Our media simply reflects this fact. In fact, other than a shallow 'pop' culture ( consisting of Bollywood and Cricket ), there is virtually no real information available out there nor anyone to consume it. There is nothing like a critical review of Art history, or Indian philosophical schools. This is what Rajiv Malhotra refers to as the 'moronization' of India. A slave nation can be fine if it is a bunch of morons. For an independent nation, it is suicidal. Because of mental colonization, we forget to understand basic facts, such as spending 10 million $ on military or scientific research in the US is not the same as spending 10 million $ on military or scientific research in India. This is because the dollars are spent in buying components and supporting the military Industrial complex of the USA, which doesn't happen in India. If it is simply analyzed from the perspective of how much money is spent, that is missing the big picture.

+1

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 Feb 2017 15:50

Neela wrote:Firangi exhibits are "cleverly" designed? How?
Desi ones are badly designed? Why?
Our pavilion is in Cold war era? Whats "Cold war" ish about them?
Furreigners looking smart and well dressed? The wimmens are dressed to kill - all suited and booted! And Indians are ugly?

Right outta DDM. 'Fess up. You are Sagarika Ghose aren't you?
OT. LCA thread. But has to be posted nevertheless.

No let me back up what Fowlerji says

1. Firangi exhibits are cleverly designed: All exhibits as shiny, new and sparkling. Scale models are of super quality.
2. Desi ones are badly designed: In fact it used to be desi PSU stalls where they would keep dirty used and discoloured items as examples of what they produced. I have actually told people at the stalls about this but the people manning the stall are underlings who know little. The acual boss is usuall standing to attention and answering the questions of some VIP and will not give me a second glance. I have photo evidence of all this from previous shows.
3.Cold war era: - I think he means frugal, spartan - not much spent on making things look good
4. Once again this year a request came via the usual channels that the Israeli Aero India stall were looking for young ladies to man their stall every day for five days - being paid $150 per day. Unfortunately my family has run out of young girls who could be sent for such duty. The last 4 girls who were appropriate for this have all got married in the last 4 years and have moved on. PSU stalls will have young males - often clueless all wearing a PSU daily wear uniform. HAL is usually OK - but OFB etc - well - the less said the better

csaurabh · Post by **csaurabh** » 08 Feb 2017 20:11

shiv wrote:
csaurabh wrote: Our media simply reflects this fact. In fact, other than a shallow 'pop' culture ( consisting of Bollywood and Cricket ), there is virtually no real information available out there nor anyone to consume it. There is nothing like a critical review of Art history, or Indian philosophical schools. This is what Rajiv Malhotra refers to as the 'moronization' of India. A slave nation can be fine if it is a bunch of morons. For an independent nation, it is suicidal. Because of mental colonization, we forget to understand basic facts, such as spending 10 million $ on military or scientific research in the US is not the same as spending 10 million $ on military or scientific research in India. This is because the dollars are spent in buying components and supporting the military Industrial complex of the USA, which doesn't happen in India. If it is simply analyzed from the perspective of how much money is spent, that is missing the big picture.
+1

Shiv ji I will add one more thing, that is the issue of language. The Chinese have been translating everything into Chinese. How it goes is probably something like this. Supposing some new product such as a quad copter comes out. Originally the product and manual will come out in English. Then it will be translated to Chinese. Next, a new guy, who doesn't know any English, will read the documents, try running the quad copter and point out, hey, there is some error here and there. After a few iterations, the Chinese engineer will be able to describe the working of a quad copter directly in Chinese without using any English word. The quadcopter has now become assimilated into Chinese culture.

Now, our problem is, we have no language. So our elites never bothered to translate or write new technological books, manuals, etc. because they are all available in English anyway. This also means that their grasp over the subject is a lot lesser than it would have been if they had to put an effort to understand and translate. So it is not easy to build upon it because there is no sense of ownership or legacy. Really all this English education has largely done is to replace the old British clerk system with a new clerk system for Western MNCs. Worse still, more than 80% of India's population still doesn't know proper English and would not be able to absorb technical information at all.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 Feb 2017 20:36

Sadly Saurabh - what you say is true and because of this lack of language - our 1.3 billion actually translate to the population of a small nation. It gets worse and I will stop after this post - maybe we can take it elsewhere. We English clerks also have a contempt for the non English speaker that makes him feel very insecure. Our stress is on cultural belonging by good spelling and pronunciation and refuse to assimilate and modify English ourselves. We boast so much about our IT prowess but we don't even get an Indian spellcheck that does not object to names like Saurabh and Shiv - which get a red line underneath asking if I have typed shit, but William and Ronald are recognized. We should really be ramming in our own words into our own dictionary including grammatical errors as "Where it is" and "What it is" and puncher for puncture. But we are such hoity toity sonsabiches that we all slavishly follow someone else's dictionary and laugh at those who don't "quite come up to scratch" Harrumph. No more. Sorry

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 08 Feb 2017 22:24

csaurabh,

It is called "culture". A couple of OT observations.

First, there is a great dependency on the past, way, way past. We did this and we did that. Although all that was done by Shivaji and Chauhan are true and great, they never translate into anything beyond build expensive statues all over the place. Nothing is implemented from these great pasts.

Secondly, risks. Even calculated risks are hard to come by. ISRO, DoE are perhaps the best examples in this area. Recently I think the HTT-40 needs a rightful place in history books. A huge part of the problem, I have found, to be parents and the education system. Both are mired in old, very low risk processes. Kids are funneled into streams where other kids have done very well. And part of this reflects in kids who hold diplomas in auto mechanics or welding or plumbing or carpetery or etc have no value.

Cannot have such skewed societies.

But, PCS, IMHO will survive. May not be in the form we are used to, but that is OK.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 08 Feb 2017 23:03

^^^"Now, our problem is, we have no language. So our elites never bothered to translate or write new technological books, manuals, etc. because they are all available in English anyway."

We have too many languages. 23 official ones including English. The Chinese have ONE: Mandarin. No linguistic states. Which of the official languages would you have us translate 'stuff' into? Hindi? I think they tried it once with some reactions from the South.

The Japanese have ONE long with Germans, Russians, French etc.

Linguistic states make it an impossible situation for non-Hindi speakers. If you're in a MH school, you need to take Marathi, English and Hindi and maybe a 'foreign' language like French. In UP, you don't have to take Tamil as a language.

Kids (and adults) in India have only so much capacity for languages. They choose the best deal they can get—their mother tongue and English.

Most of the world's knowledge base is in English. In the Indian context, what do you/can you do? Rewrite everything in 20 languages or teach people better English?

It's the hand we've been dealt. We'd better learn how to play it as best we can and profit from it. The vast majority of Chinese students in Western Universities are functionally illiterate in English (and in non-stem subjects). When they land in the US for example, they are stunned.

Anyway, very OT for this thread. Apologies to all.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 08 Feb 2017 23:57

Not to say that having to study an additional language takes time away from what could be spent studying another subject in depth. For a time there was hope that the arrival of foreign universities would allow students to self select into transitioning to an English-first system, but alas!

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 09 Feb 2017 00:19

This is going off topic quickly!

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 09 Feb 2017 00:24

I think we are off on a tangent.

The original quote:

While one would be justified in blaming the scientists and bureaucrats responsible for defence research and production, the root cause of this colossal failure lies in political indifference and the inability to provide vision and firm guidance to our massive but under-performing military-industrial complex.

I feel, still stands.

This vision and guidance can be seen in ISRO and the DoE. No language or translations formed any barrier there and India has world class systems either in operation or would be there in a decade or two.

Cannot see why it was not achieved within the MIC.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 09 Feb 2017 02:58

Firangi exhibits are cleverly designed: All exhibits as shiny, new and sparkling. Scale models are of super quality.

Is there a course in Indian engineering colleges that teaches Industrial Engineering!

ManSingh · Post by **ManSingh** » 09 Feb 2017 03:29

SBajwa wrote:
Firangi exhibits are cleverly designed: All exhibits as shiny, new and sparkling. Scale models are of super quality.
Is there a course in Indian engineering colleges that teaches Industrial Engineering!

Many sir. It was quite a surprise for us when a fresher who joined said that he learned LabView in college as a part of industrial engg.
Opportunity to use such skills and hone them futher is an altogether different story.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 09 Feb 2017 05:02

SBajwa wrote:
Firangi exhibits are cleverly designed: All exhibits as shiny, new and sparkling. Scale models are of super quality.
Is there a course in Indian engineering colleges that teaches Industrial Engineering!

Exhibitions should fall under interior decoration. Plenty if those in India.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 09 Feb 2017 06:08

Rafael steps up weapons offer for Tejas

Rafael is stepping up its efforts to provide systems for the Indian air force’s Hindustan Aeronautics-built Tejas light combat aircraft, with its current emphasis on offering air-to-air missiles and a targeting pod.

..

Miller says the Indian air force is evaluating the Israeli company’s Python 5 and 54nm (100km)-range I-Derby ER air-to-air missiles for the Tejas, while it is also promoting its Litening 5 targeting pod and BNET secure radio.

Rafael will also supply systems for the Indian air force’s future fleet of 36 Dassault Rafales, acting as a subcontractor to Dassault, Miller says. This will include Spice 250 and Spice 1000 precision-guided bombs to be used by both the French-built type and the Tejas, he adds.

Spice 250 and Spice 1000 PGMs for the Tejas as well as I-Derby ER BVRAAM and Python 5 WVRAAM

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 09 Feb 2017 09:20

IndiaTodayFLASH (@IndiaTodayFLASH) tweeted at 9:07 PM on Wed, Feb 08, 2017:

Govt Sources: CCS meet chaired by PM Narendra Modi clears proposal to ramp up the production of indigenously built LCA Tejas fighters

(https://twitter.com/IndiaTodayFLASH/sta ... 64352?s=03)

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 09 Feb 2017 11:53

shiv wrote: 2. Desi ones are badly designed: In fact it used to be desi PSU stalls where they would keep dirty used and discoloured items as examples of what they produced. I have actually told people at the stalls about this but the people manning the stall are underlings who know little. The acual boss is usuall standing to attention and answering the questions of some VIP and will not give me a second glance. I have photo evidence of all this from previous shows.

I have been to the Deutsche Luft and Raumfahrt museum 4 times. The now-powered flight/ early era of flight / space propulsion sections are worn out, dusty and dirty. To make it more depressing , it is near Dachau which once held concentration camps. So when you go thru that place, your mood changes.
But does this matter. ?
In AI2015,I recall seeing the models of Laghu Shakti Engine and LUH. I thought those were top notch. Especially the Laghu Shakti engine 3D model with cross section where you could peek into it, see the stators, LP sections, combustion chambers and HP sections. After seeing such things, you get reminded of Vina/maitya and N3's posts here and some of the points they raise.
I guess one sees what one wants to see.There is a minor point I admit. Even at MWC Barcelona, Europes equivalent of CES Las Vegas you'll find stalls you barely even notice.
OK I'll stop before Indranil culls all of this.

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 09 Feb 2017 12:18

ashishvikas wrote:IndiaTodayFLASH (@IndiaTodayFLASH) tweeted at 9:07 PM on Wed, Feb 08, 2017:

Govt Sources: CCS meet chaired by PM Narendra Modi clears proposal to ramp up the production of indigenously built LCA Tejas fighters

(https://twitter.com/IndiaTodayFLASH/sta ... 64352?s=03)

Finally...Hope it comes out what made GOI wait for more than a year to clear the proposal....

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 09 Feb 2017 13:46

Why are we still looking at israeli weapons for tejas instead of astra1, existing stock of r73, existing paveway/kab and garuda?

This circus has to stop somewhere

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 09 Feb 2017 13:53

^^ Astra is integrated with Bars radar because IAF wanted an urgent replacement of R-77 and we had full ToT of Bars that is manufactured at HAL Avionics Division Hyderabad.

http://hal-india.com/Avionics%20Divisio ... bad/M__122

RLSU RADAR Primary sensor for Su-30 to detect and track Airborne, Ground and Sea targets. Passive Phased Array Radar

Tracks upto 16 fighters in an area of 50 km X 50 km, locks 4 & targets 2 fighters at a time

Qualifying Astra with 2032/2052 will be a long drawn affair. Its best we go with Derby that comes integrated with 2032/2052 and proven on Sea Harrier.

KAB is not compatible with Litening - however Paveway & Griffin are more than sufficient.

Spice is an evolution to Griffin and already deployed on Mirage 2000.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 09 Feb 2017 13:59

but long term if we are serious on Tejas mk1 and 2, Amca we need to integrate and use Astra on the whole fleet whatever be the cost or expense.

else the argument will be Astra is costly and not VFM vs imports because it could not get a bulk production run with M2k/rafale/tejas/Mig29k/Mig29upg all using foreign aam!!

its chicken egg argument like JSF unit cost. unless we build 1000s costs will never come down and nor the specialized local SMEs for the parts needed.

having a local radar guided AAM is a big deal...hardly 6 countries have it - cheen, rus, france, usa, israel, japan. and the agat radar seeker can no doubt be 'cloned' in future to equip active SAMs and ABMs.