Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 16 Mar 2017 08:28

GShankar wrote:X-post

GShankar wrote:This is the first time I am reading some excitement about Indian military related news in Tamil media. Things are changing..

Added later
Translation - "Duron is patroling the Border", "Indian Military is getting ready for Shock/Surprise".
Source - http://www.dinamalar.com/news_detail.asp?id=1730919

I have an opinion on this. Tamil Nadu actually has a long tradition of contribution to the Armed Forces with Army Units originally sourced from TN. It is the Tamizh media, just like our MSM who have ignored the armed forces and have concentrated on Politics and Kollywood

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 16 Mar 2017 08:40

Tyranny of distance sir, being so far from the border keeps the population somewhat insulated. But know some feisty warrior communities (major contributors from TN) whose aggression can be hardly matched by anyone outside India.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 16 Mar 2017 08:52

Karthik S wrote:Tyranny of distance sir, being so far from the border keeps the population somewhat insulated. But know some feisty warrior communities (major contributors from TN) whose aggression can be hardly matched by anyone outside India.

Sorry - I beg to differ on some points. I think that you are concentrating on post 1947 history only and media dominated by the educated elite show this blindness. In the pre-1947 era the British actually set up units like the Madras sappers because there were willing volunteers and fighters - not "warrior comunities". In Bengaluru the "cantonment" area is peopled by Muslims and Tamil speakers who migrated from "Madras" with British officers after Tipu's defeat

Earlier the Gingee fort (of the Marathas) are evidence of warriors of that era. Pondicherry is full of Tamil speaking people who fought alongside the french in Dien Bien Phu. War memorials at the Pondy-TN border speak of French and British armies with local soldiers

The population is in no way insulated from war. It is only we post independence people who have been geographically isolated in the south - but recruits called "Thambis" are well known for their valour in post independence wars. The ASC is full of Thambis if I am not mistaken. I regularly bump into native Tamil speakers in army units. Mind you I am not a native Tamil speaker myself.

GShankar · Post by **GShankar** » 16 Mar 2017 09:02

Shiv, my post was not about Tamils, rather Tamil media.

This particular item (per my knowledge) only appeared in Dinamalar but neither in brf nor any other outlet. So I assumed it is DDM and just noted (ahem..) their excitement.

And not even sure if the dronacharya in the bichar is duron. Thoughts?

Added later - these kind of information probably should be in a psyops thread appropriately named something like "beginning of cold start" or "News about Indian Surgical Strikes". plis to create a thread only.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 16 Mar 2017 09:13

shiv wrote:
Karthik S wrote:Tyranny of distance sir, being so far from the border keeps the population somewhat insulated. But know some feisty warrior communities (major contributors from TN) whose aggression can be hardly matched by anyone outside India.
Sorry - I beg to differ on some points. I think that you are concentrating on post 1947 history only and media dominated by the educated elite show this blindness. In the pre-1947 era the British actually set up units like the Madras sappers because there were willing volunteers and fighters - not "warrior comunities". In Bengaluru the "cantonment" area is peopled by Muslims and Tamil speakers who migrated from "Madras" with British officers after Tipu's defeat

Earlier the Gingee fort (of the Marathas) are evidence of warriors of that era. Pondicherry is full of Tamil speaking people who fought alongside the french in Dien Bien Phu. War memorials at the Pondy-TN border speak of French and British armies with local soldiers

The population is in no way insulated from war. It is only we post independence people who have been geographically isolated in the south - but recruits called "Thambis" are well known for their valour in post independence wars. The ASC is full of Thambis if I am not mistaken. I regularly bump into native Tamil speakers in army units. Mind you I am not a native Tamil speaker myself.

You are right, I am concentrating on post independence era. Military career is not as pervasive as one would expect from TN in the last few decades.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 16 Mar 2017 09:58

Karthik S wrote: Military career is not as pervasive as one would expect from TN in the last few decades.

I don't want to push this point too far - but I see no shortage of volunteers from the non English speaking classes of Tamil Nadu in the army. The air force speaks for itself - there are plenty from Tamil Nadu. I think it is a section of elite Tamil society who are insulated from the army - they also form the core "libtards" from TN of whom there are many - mainly from the elite English speaking classes and by dint of history and recruitment patterns - from the forward castes. Even then there is a steady inflow into the army from the technical and medical sections. I have never heard of Tamil Nadu being short in contributing to the armed forces

The reason I am insisting on getting the right statistics is that the idea that Tamil Nadu does not contribute to the Armed Forces, while being untrue, plays straight into the hands of Shitistanis and other groups sitting in the West claiming that Tamil Nadu is a different country waiting to break away from "Hindu India"

This table of ex servicemen is somewhat indicative

Rupesh · Post by **Rupesh** » 16 Mar 2017 11:53

So its Kerala that contributes max from SI. Almost 3 times more than Andhra.

LokeshC · Post by **LokeshC** » 16 Mar 2017 11:57

OT. Surprised about Kerala!.

Just curious: Is it because Kerala has a very organized martial culture IIRC: Kalaripaitu or something? Or is it that commies made sure there is nowhere to go in Kerala other than out of Kerala?

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 16 Mar 2017 12:08

shiv wrote:
Karthik S wrote: Military career is not as pervasive as one would expect from TN in the last few decades.
I don't want to push this point too far - but I see no shortage of volunteers from the non English speaking classes of Tamil Nadu in the army. The air force speaks for itself - there are plenty from Tamil Nadu. I think it is a section of elite Tamil society who are insulated from the army - they also form the core "libtards" from TN of whom there are many - mainly from the elite English speaking classes and by dint of history and recruitment patterns - from the forward castes. Even then there is a steady inflow into the army from the technical and medical sections. I have never heard of Tamil Nadu being short in contributing to the armed forces

The reason I am insisting on getting the right statistics is that the idea that Tamil Nadu does not contribute to the Armed Forces, while being untrue, plays straight into the hands of Shitistanis and other groups sitting in the West claiming that Tamil Nadu is a different country waiting to break away from "Hindu India"

This table of ex servicemen is somewhat indicative

Shivji, I get your point, but my point is different, I am talking on relative terms and not on absolute. Relative as in, I expected the number to similar to Haryana or certainly more than that of Kerala, considering the population and demographic of TN.

anjan · Post by **anjan** » 16 Mar 2017 21:33

While Gen. Panag has most recently been in the news for his political opinions his writing on his experiences are still an interesting read:
On induction of 1 Mech into Ladakh: https://www.newslaundry.com/2017/02/17/ ... -in-ladakh

Edit: The section on terrain and vehicle maintenance is interesting. Especially in light of recent proposals on the forum to adopt the ISIS way of mechanization.

I think people seriously underestimate how technical a field war-fighting actually is.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 16 Mar 2017 22:10

LokeshC wrote:OT. Surprised about Kerala!.

Just curious: Is it because Kerala has a very organized martial culture IIRC: Kalaripaitu or something? Or is it that commies made sure there is nowhere to go in Kerala other than out of Kerala?

we wish! IIRC, I had posted on how post-independence, our own govts have done more to suppress growth of kalaripayattu than british was supposed to have done. I use "supposed", because that is what is bandied about nowadays, although Travancore was not ruled by british and had maintained a robust string of schools until independence, unlike Malabar, which was under Madras Presidency of brits and had issues in forming training militias.

No, it is just that there are pockets in Kerala, where people have been signing up to the military since centuries. It continues even after monarchy went away. Same for other All India services.

LokeshC · Post by **LokeshC** » 17 Mar 2017 12:43

Thx hnair saar.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 17 Mar 2017 17:01

The oldest regiment of IA - 1 Para - traces its origin to Madras Presidency Army.

After Siraj-ud-daulla captured Fort William in Calcutta, Clive came with the Madras Army to Bengal via Sea and fought Plassey.

Wellington led the Madras Army to defeat Tipu and then the Marathas.

The Bengal Army fought in Punjab and Afghanistan and brought back the Somnath Gates from Ghazni.

Bombay Army was stunted by the Marathas, but went on to conquer Sindh & Baluchistan.

The oldest continuously existent force - Bombay Marines - was established 1612. The Bombay Marines morphed into Mumbai Police. The old 70's Bollywood movies depict Bombay Police in Navy Blue Uniform and Shorts, that came from the Maritime duties. While uniforms were changed to Khaki, the blue cap still remains

http://media.new.mensxp.com/media/conte ... 80x457.jpg

All Services have quotas from all states based on latest census for other ranks. That is how Ladakhis end up in IN and learn swimming at INS Chilka.

11 & 12 Battalion, Mahar Regiment have Bengali, Oriya & Gujarati composition. Kumaon Regiment has a battalion from Vidarbha in Central India.

Rest assured, no community is short of patriots, or short sighted leaders

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 17 Mar 2017 17:58

Men from South Indian states have disproportionate representation in technical trades across various arms by virtue of their education background.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 17 Mar 2017 18:09

tsarkar: A request. 1 or 2 book recommendations, that allows one to go through this historical material? I recently went through 2nd world war from an Indian perspective by Srinath Raghavan, opened up new understanding. TIA.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 17 Mar 2017 18:14

ShauryaT wrote:tsarkar: A request. 1 or 2 book recommendations, that allows one to go through this historical material? I recently went through 2nd world war from an Indian perspective by Srinath Raghavan, opened up new understanding. TIA.

How is the book? I've followed the author but feel that he veers towards the 'liberal' school of thought; aligned too much to western position on many India specific strategic subject like Siachen etc.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 17 Mar 2017 18:31

rohitvats wrote:
ShauryaT wrote:tsarkar: A request. 1 or 2 book recommendations, that allows one to go through this historical material? I recently went through 2nd world war from an Indian perspective by Srinath Raghavan, opened up new understanding. TIA.
How is the book? I've followed the author but feel that he veers towards the 'liberal' school of thought; aligned too much to western position on many India specific strategic subject like Siachen etc.

Yes, I know you do not like his political leanings but he is as nationalist as they come who will fight for India as he has done in his real life and also in the book is not sympathetic to the British. The book to me has opened my eyes further on what India's potential can be. Tons of ORBAT, from N. Africa to SE Asia and beyond and the build up -which you will like. He is not a colonial apologist, so i will recommend that work.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 19 Mar 2017 05:51

As China arms Pakistan, India trains Vietnamese soldiers in Jungle Warfare
http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/as-china ... re-1670325

jayasimha · Post by **jayasimha** » 20 Mar 2017 14:02

ARMY DESIGN BUREAU
FUTURE CORE TECHNOLOGIES AND PROBLEM STATEMENTS

https://indianarmy.nic.in/MakeInIndia/r ... 20defn.pdf

vaibhav.n · Post by **vaibhav.n** » 21 Mar 2017 00:31

Defence Investiture Ceremony 2017-Mar 20, 2017

@ 8:00 mins watch out SF citations for Surgical strikes and subsequent NSCN(K) ops @25:00.

vikassh · Post by **vikassh** » 21 Mar 2017 11:14

Thank you so much Vaibhav for sharing this clip. It is a great feeling to see a living Phantom. Major saab looks amazing and has broken many of mine stereotypes of special forces

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 21 Mar 2017 13:33

I loved the glasses

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 24 Mar 2017 05:25

Hard to watch and imagine what is going thru the minds of the spouses and parents on the posthumous awardees.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 24 Mar 2017 10:02

One of the highlights of the award function above was the young Captain from Gorkha Rifles receiving gallantry award; the chap is for sure on lower side of 25 in terms of age. Officers like him are the bedrock of leadership.

Rishi Verma · Post by **Rishi Verma** » 24 Mar 2017 10:23

rohitvats wrote:Men from South Indian states have disproportionate representation in technical trades across various arms by virtue of their education background.

Could it be more exposure to English?
I don't think "education background" is the reason.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 24 Mar 2017 10:32

Rishi Verma wrote:
rohitvats wrote:Men from South Indian states have disproportionate representation in technical trades across various arms by virtue of their education background.
Could it be more exposure to English?
I don't think "education background" is the reason.

Education background. Most of the technical and clerical cadres require graduates; with technical graduates requiring bachelors degree with Mathematics and Physics. While Nursing Assistants have to be life sciences stream

Its just that the standard of education is comparatively higher. And good English is a by-product. But fluency in English is not exactly a criterion for selection because unlike Officers, there are no personal interviews during selection process.

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 24 Mar 2017 13:17

Meet Cadet Shaheen Rahimi From Afghanistan, Getting Trained At OTA Chennai

It is 3 p.m. and the heat is searing; but the 20-year-old Shaheen Rahimi is unruffled as he runs, jumps, crawls and climbs through the obstacle course along with other cadets at the Officers Training Academy (OTA) in Chennai.

“When I came here, I was the youngest of the whole batch. I was just 19. I turned 20 last September,” the lanky young Afghan cadet says with pride.

Rahimi is one of the foreign cadets currently training at the OTA. He hails from Afghanistan. He has three brothers — two are in the Armed forces and one is a police officer.

“I came here because of the friendship between India and Afghanistan. I came here after passing out directly from college and came via the Ministries of Defence of both the countries,” Mr. Rahimi told The Hindu.

Mr. Rahimi says while they are all called Foreign Gentleman Cadets (FGCs) — currently there are 22 Afghans under training at OTA — “there is no difference in training, academics or anything. We are all taught the same things.”

“I am feeling like I am at home. We feel as if we are in an academy in Afghanistan,” he says.

Mr. Rahimi, who is expected to graduate from the Academy on March 11, says he has learnt a number of skills such as boxing, swimming and horse riding, besides completing a 40-km marathon and a 50-km marathon with a 22-kg combat gear, including the rifle.

Following the passing out parade on March 11, he and the other senior cadets from Afghanistan will head back and complete another three months of training before being inducted into the Afghan army.

When asked what the motivation was for him to join the army, Mr. Rahimi says, “India and Afghanistan have a common enemy. That’s why I want to join the army and serve my country.”

Rajput · Post by **Rajput** » 24 Mar 2017 19:39

tsarkar wrote:The oldest regiment of IA - 1 Para - traces its origin to Madras Presidency Army.

I thought 1Para was from 1st Punjab Regt? Founded in 1761.

jagga · Post by **jagga** » 24 Mar 2017 20:09

Rajput wrote:
tsarkar wrote:The oldest regiment of IA - 1 Para - traces its origin to Madras Presidency Army.
I thought 1Para was from 1st Punjab Regt? Founded in 1761.

From what I know you are correct.
From Wiki

In 1978, the 1 Para, as an experiment, was converted to become the first special forces unit of the Indian army and was kept as the tactical reserve. Already a recipient of the Chief of Army Staff Unit Citation twice and GOC-in-C Eastern Command Unit Citation once, the unit was originally 1 Punjab which was later re designated as 1 PARA (PUNJAB) and in 1978 was converted to 1 PARA (SF). The unit is well over 200 years old.

Also check indianparachuteregiment, from horse mouth? Seems like official sarkari website.

jagga · Post by **jagga** » 24 Mar 2017 20:21

tsarkar wrote:The Bengal Army fought in Punjab and Afghanistan and brought back the Somnath Gates from Ghazni.

There are different point of view's on this. General view is that these gates are currently installed in Golden Temple, Amritsar. If true, how did they end up in Golden Temple? If not true, where are the original one's? There have been attempts to relocate them back to Somnath Temple. Loh Purush also tried to move them back to Somnath.
Doors of Darshani Deodi Controversy over their origin refuses to die down

The controversy over the contention of SGPC chief Avtar Singh that the doors of the Darshani Deodi did not originate from the Somnath Temple has refused to die down with Shiromani Akali Dal (Amritsar) chief Simranjit Singh Mann and veteran Army officer Brig KS Kang (retd) asserting that the doors had their origin in the Somnath Temple and that these were brought by Sikhs.
Apprehending that the SGPC was in the process of “handing the silver-carved doors back to the Somnath Temple Trust”, he said a delegation of his party would inspect the doors on July 9.

After the replacement of the original set of doors for their repair, the SGPC authorities have displayed these silver-carved doors in a huge glass box near Akal Takht with a promise that these would be repaired by experts in full view of devotees and would be kept under round-the-clock guard.

Baba Kashmir Singh, in charge of the ‘kar sewa’ for the repair of doors, has asserted that there was no scope of any mischief and foolproof arrangements for the security and safety of the doors had been ensured.

“The SGPC chief may show his ignorance, but the fact is that the doors were looted from the Somnath Temple by Mughal invaders led by Mahmud of Ghazni. These were taken back by Sikh General Hari Singh Nalwa. Avtar Singh may not remember but the then Prime Minister Morarji Desai had expressed his intention to take these back from the Golden Temple but his plea was flatly refused by the then Akali Dal chief Jagdev Singh Talwandi. During his tenure as the Union Home Minister, LK Advani, too, had lobbied hard to take these doors back to Gujarat,” said Mann.

On the other hand, Chandigarh-based Brig KS Kang (retd), who claimed to have undertaken extensive research on the subject, said though the doors were looted from the Somnath Temple and were taken to Ghazni in Afghanistan by Mahmud of Ghazni-led Mughal invaders in 1026, these were brought back by 43 Bengal Native Infantry during its Afghanistan expedition under the command of Commander Stacy in 1842.

“These doors were first brought to Ferozepur and were subsequently taken to Amritsar after Maharaja Sher Singh had accorded safe passage to the regiment under British rule. In fact, these doors were offered to the Somnath Temple Trust but it had refused to take these back on religious grounds and were installed in the Golden Temple. The doors had remained at Ghazni for about 800 years. Everything is written in black and white in the regimental history,” said Kang while talking to The Tribune on the phone.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 24 Mar 2017 23:12

Indian Army joins Pakistan Army in its Resolution Day celebrations
http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... 3WJ9N.html

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 24 Mar 2017 23:14

‘The Army Is India’s Final Insurance Policy’: An Army Veteran Speaks Out
https://www.youthkiawaaz.com/2017/03/wa ... -is-today/

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 24 Mar 2017 23:16

Future wars will be complex, Indian Army needs modernisation
http://www.oneindia.com/india/future-wa ... 83425.html

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 24 Mar 2017 23:19

Army wants next war fought with Indian technologies
http://zeenews.india.com/india/army-wan ... 89750.html

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Mar 2017 00:54

There was a huge fire in Jabalpur Ordnance factories.
Any insight?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 28 Mar 2017 16:01

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 28 Mar 2017 21:38

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 874376.cms
Budgam encounter ends after militant killed, 3 civilians also lose life

Three civilians were killed in security forces' action against protesters near an encounter site in Budgam district in Kashmir during an anti-militancy operation which ended with the killing of the lone militant.
"One militant has been killed and a weapon has been recovered from the scene of the encounter," an army official said.
The encounter has ended, a police official said adding that one para trooper also sustained injuries.
Three civilians - all young men in their twenties - were killed while 18 others were injured in security forces' action against a large number of protesters who pelted stones on the law enforcing personnel allegedly in a vain bid to help the holed up militant escape.
Security forces launched a cordon and search operation in Durbugh area of Chadoora in the early hours today following information about the presence of militants in the area, the police official said.
He said the search operation turned into a gunbattle after the militant opened firing on security forces.
The slain civilians have been identified as Zahid Dar, Saqib Ahmad and Ishfaq Ahmad Wani.
All of them had firearm injuries, the official said.
Clashes between protesters and security forces were going on till reports last came in, he added.

The trend of civilians assembling near encounter sites and engaging security forces in clashes emerged last year.
It has continued even after Army Chief Bipin Rawat warned the youth against interfering in anti-militancy operations and the state administration imposing Section 144 within three kilometre radius of the encounter site.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Mar 2017 21:50

tsarkar and Akshay Kapoor, We need a different word than encounter which has become repugnant.

Please come up with an acceptable word.

One synonym is confrontation.

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 29 Mar 2017 08:54

This above news by Jamwal is brilliant.
For two reasons
First they managed to withstand the pressure of traitors trying to backstab while eleminating the terrorist.
Second they have a SOP now of how to prevent being ousted from the area by these a$$holes.

Now 3 civies lost their lives ... the news piece is brilliant.
They mention oh one of them was a sole bread winner for the family

my question is why the hell was he protesting instead of winning some bread.
Bhen chod go win some bread instead of trying to back stab the troops

ranjan.rao · Post by **ranjan.rao** » 29 Mar 2017 09:30

Khalsa, what if he was winning the bread, I mean what if stone pelting was his job