LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 04 Jan 2018 20:36

But I guess the fear is somebody is not deciding fast enough to continue manufacturing mk1 in case mk1a gets delayed. It takes a lead time of 1-2 year for a plane to come to finishing line. If someone is going to wait for 2 years to see if LCA MK1A is on track or not and if delayed, order, we can only deliver after 2 years from that time. It may result in the plant sitting idle. I think most prudent would be, add 20-40 more to FOC order (as they can be upgraded to MK1A later).

srai · Post by **srai** » 04 Jan 2018 20:38

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 04 Jan 2018 21:49

SSridhar wrote:
shiv wrote: Arabs would call him Bandit; he's first a Raj but not a king; next a jat but that's not his jati
Shiv, I also believe like a few others that the source being referred to is more an 'internal store'. May be retired. Who has been frequently sniping at Tejas?

Maybe the Mathematical Eashwar 'n co?

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 04 Jan 2018 21:53

I suspect the same (it is the easiest answer). We need to wait for more confirmation though.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 04 Jan 2018 22:46

I don’t think Matheswaran Sir would hide and snipe. To his credit, he has been open about his stand in public. It’s not R Pandit either, because he is not an official.

Kudos to the Hindi reporter. He has got the dates right. Things will shift at most by a couple of months. The first line would reach 8 per year by this end for sure. The second line is also expected to reach that target few months later.

SP5 has cleared all taxi trials and will take to the air soon.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 04 Jan 2018 23:35

IR agree. It is easy to say it is him because of his prior public stand, but it may be someone else entirely, with a vested interest.

Good to hear production is picking up.
Back on topic, a tribune report from a while back, clearly mentions the original plan was to drop 1T from Mk1A. Hope it remains!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 Jan 2018 23:37

That news report in Hindi is breath of fresh air.
The ELM should hang their heads in shame for they put all kinds of FUD along as standard material.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 04 Jan 2018 23:39

I know right? It is so factual without any editorializing. ELM in India are mostly a bunch of politically motivated hacks.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 05 Jan 2018 01:14

And could really be #presstitutes.

Why do they have to preface every article that LCA was started.....

And use "home-grown"!

NachiketM · Post by **NachiketM** » 05 Jan 2018 01:49

chetak wrote:Why the fight for Tejas and Arjun is not just about defence forces

Why the fight for Tejas and Arjun is not just about defence forces

They are symbols of decades of research and hard work accumulating, integrating and establishing technologies that have the potential to transform India’s model of growth and development

R Swaminathan | December 20, 2017

<snip>

This is an excellent peice ... Very well thought out and researched article...

Edited: Mod Note: Please truncate long posts while merely quoting for reference. Also please do not quote entire articles, to avoid copyright issues.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 05 Jan 2018 05:59

ramana wrote:And could really be #presstitutes.

Why do they have to preface every article that LCA was started.....

And use "home-grown"!

Ramana sir can i grow a few LCA in my fraand's garden. She's chinese I am sure she can mass grow it ???

my evil second degree fraand from NoKo says that we need Big and working mongol yakdung to grow this.

On a serious note I was thinking of learning basic physics of a fighter jet ...any recommendations for basic physics from Jay, want to start with some basic and preferably with numericals

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 05 Jan 2018 06:11

JayS wrote:
ks_sachin wrote:
Any good resources you recommend?
Let me take liberty to recommend a book or two, even if the question was not directed to me, in case you want to stay in the comfort of your desk.

Anderson's "Intro to Flight" is very a good book to start with. If you want to get past that for more rigor you can go to same author's "Fundamentals of Aerodynamics" and "Aircraft Performance and Design". His books are somewhere between popular mechanics and engineering textbook.

FAA has "Handbooks for pilot" or something like that. That's also good one.

If you are interested in Aircraft design (top level view at aircraft as a system) you can take a look at Daniel Raymers book on Aircraft Design. Another more detailed one is by Jan Roskam but you might find it little boring. Reading Aircraft design book is fun actually.

Thanks Jay.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 05 Jan 2018 06:18

Thank you for your kind words. I actually have no formal training and know very little. I just love airplanes from childhood. I am happy that I could enthuse you into my field of passion in even a small way.

I won't recommend a book.What you want to read really depends on your interest. Just go looking for different planes, designers, pilot accounts etc. One thing will lead to another. If you get interested enough to where equations don't bother you, then take up a book or an online course.

Build an aeromodel. Nowadays, with brushless motors, some glue and foam, and a knife you can build your first aeromodel in less than 2 hours. There are many plans available online. No need to build an aerofoil. Just make the upper surface of roughly that shape. Tie it and one end and fly. Or just give it yaw and pitch control. It is a lot of fun. Just build a few before you go though. You will crash a few on the first day Don't worry the battery and the engines mostly survive the crash and can be used for another model.

Indranil thanks. Will explore your suggestion. Try to get my son interested.
Having said that I have been interested in aircraft scale models and when I was younger (.I have aMig 23 and a F111 to complete!!) I used to make balsam wood gliders...

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 05 Jan 2018 07:04

Link below has video, which I am unable to reproduce...Happy Tejas Day indeed!!

https://twitter.com/writetake/status/948918261650894849 --> So after a day-long hunt, call attempts and messages, finally tracked down Koti (then Wg Cdr Rajiv Kothiyal) in Adu Dhabi today. Here's Koti, the man who flew LCA TD-1 on its maiden mission on 04 January 2001, wishing everyone a #HappyTejasDay!

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 05 Jan 2018 07:05

https://twitter.com/vkthakur/status/948779849430085632 --> "There is absolutely no doubt that the Tejas would be many magnitudes better than the venerable Bison on all fronts. Notably, handling, safety, pilot comfort, and performance in the subsonic and trans-sonic regimes." Air Commodore Harish Nayani (R) former LCA test pilot & CO Bison Sqn.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 05 Jan 2018 07:22

ks_sachin wrote: Indranil thanks. Will explore your suggestion. Try to get my son interested.
Having said that I have been interested in aircraft scale models and when I was younger (.I have aMig 23 and a F111 to complete!!) I used to make balsam wood gliders...

Sachin - start with Balsa wood, or nowadays with a host of other light synthetic materials. For a child - in the restricted confines of an urban sprawl - it allows playing with aircraft even inside the house - given that radio control models require open spaces and special days. Model aircraft behave exactly like real ones except that they don't get destroyed and burn up when they crash - so you get a sense of stalling spinning yawing, rolling, pitching, loops, speed vs lift/altitude, gust response, lack of power for recovery from a dive, etc.

Jeff Wickline · Post by **Jeff Wickline** » 05 Jan 2018 08:38

ks_sachin wrote:
JayS wrote:
Let me take liberty to recommend a book or two, even if the question was not directed to me, in case you want to stay in the comfort of your desk.

Anderson's "Intro to Flight" is very a good book to start with. If you want to get past that for more rigor you can go to same author's "Fundamentals of Aerodynamics" and "Aircraft Performance and Design". His books are somewhere between popular mechanics and engineering textbook.

FAA has "Handbooks for pilot" or something like that. That's also good one.

If you are interested in Aircraft design (top level view at aircraft as a system) you can take a look at Daniel Raymers book on Aircraft Design. Another more detailed one is by Jan Roskam but you might find it little boring. Reading Aircraft design book is fun actually.
Thanks Jay.

Gurus,
Would any of you found the following book worthwhile and recommend the same for beginners? "Kundu, Ajoy Kumar. Aircraft design. Vol. 27. Cambridge University Press, 2010." It used to have an appendix on combat aircraft.

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 05 Jan 2018 12:53

ArjunPandit wrote:
On a serious note I was thinking of learning basic physics of a fighter jet ...any recommendations for basic physics from Jay, want to start with some basic and preferably with numericals

Books I mentioned above.

Jeff Wickline wrote: Gurus,
Would any of you found the following book worthwhile and recommend the same for beginners? "Kundu, Ajoy Kumar. Aircraft design. Vol. 27. Cambridge University Press, 2010." It used to have an appendix on combat aircraft.

I haven't used this book so cannot comment.

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 05 Jan 2018 17:56

A Video shared by IAF

Know The #IAF : #MakeInIndia Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) #Tejas is the first advance Fly-by-Wire (FBW) Fighter Aircraft designed, developed & manufactured in India. Inducted into the No. 45 Squadron "FlyingDaggers" of the #IndianAirForce. Watch Full Video: https://goo.gl/g38UzJ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MIT-LuZazY&t=117s

ashvin · Post by **ashvin** » 05 Jan 2018 18:46

This is a very good book for beginners and even engineers. Its a classic!

Modern Combat Aircraft Design Hardcover – 1 Sep 1987
by Klaus Hunecke (Author)
5.0 out of 5 stars 1 customer review
See all 2 formats and editions
Hardcover
from £19.99 (Amazon.uk)

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 05 Jan 2018 19:32

So if R-77 works, we are good with TSP. Now question why wasn't RUAF using it in ME. They were using R-27.

Haridas · Post by **Haridas** » 05 Jan 2018 22:16

Indranil wrote:I don’t think Matheswaran Sir would hide and snipe. To his credit, he has been open about his stand in public. It’s not R Pandit either, because he is not an official..

Those who know him would not hold him to such high pedestal. Have met Maaty (his call sign) and known him for many years, so i think I know the character better then most others. Jmt.

chola · Post by **chola** » 05 Jan 2018 23:21

Any more detail of the LCA’s participation in the Gaganshakti exercise? Like which of Sqd. 45’s machines if not all of them? Air to air? Air to ground? Adversial or collaborative? What are the other other aircraft?

Very excited!

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 06 Jan 2018 00:42

fanne wrote:So if R-77 works, we are good with TSP. Now question why wasn't RUAF using it in ME. They were using R-27.

R-77-1 was used in Syria ops on Su-35 AD fighter, Check the video the inner pylons carry the R-77

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riWPvlILTJA

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Jan 2018 02:28

k_sachin et al..
viewtopic.php?p=2212455#p2212455

Two aero design sites;

http://www.dept.aoe.vt.edu/~mason/Mason_f/MRsoft.html

and

Dan Raymer's
http://www.aircraftdesign.com/

He wrote the book for AIAA on the conceptual design of Aircraft....

Look at this site and get inspired...

http://www.aircraftdesign.com/acpix.html

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 06 Jan 2018 03:16

But look how snipping at LCA backfired. Southern command chief took to air in LCA next day, Navy came out with statement, that even if they do not buy LCA they will provide budgetary support in development, Singapore Def min takes a spin, PV-6 is flying around and IAF top brass is getting a ride, HAL had to come out with plans and statements how things are moving and finally RFP for 83. So the person that wanted to hurt LCA ended up helping it (take that you &8$^^*)

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 06 Jan 2018 04:15

MOD had a clear statement made in support of LCA via the user services.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 06 Jan 2018 06:12

The desi LCA is defence ministry’s low-hanging fruit and it needs to be plucked now
https://theprint.in/2018/01/05/the-desi ... ucked-now/

By going with this ‘single engine’ formula, the air force is, in fact, contradicting itself. Years ago, when it started the now infamous Medium Multirole Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) competition, it was specified that the capabilities of a fighter would be judged — speed, range, weapon delivery, survivability etc — and not the number of engines it is equipped with. This gave way to the selection of the Eurofigher and Rafale as technically compatible fighters to Indian requirements, rejecting both the F-16 and the Gripen.

The fact is that a third single-engine fighter jet choice is now available for India — an improved, spruced up LCA that will be the precursor to a full range of homegrown combat aircraft.

And this might well be the most viable option.

jaysimha · Post by **jaysimha** » 06 Jan 2018 10:28

JayS wrote:
jaysimha wrote:Happy new year to one and all..

there is no better way to start the new year.

https://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/pub/monogr ... tml#page/1

if some one can get the full book they are lucky i think
I have been trying to buy it for a while. All those monographs are available for sell. But most of the times the site doesn't work when I check. Not sure how to order exactly.

You might try here

https://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/whatsnew/W ... k-Fair.pdf

DRDO at World Book Fair - 2018
DESIDOC on behalf of DRDO will participate in the World
Book Fair 2018 during 06-14 January 2018 at Pragati Maidan,
New Delhi. All DRDO Scientists, Officers and Staff are requested
to visit Stall No.20 in Hanger Lake Side. DESIDOC will showcase
the complete array of DRDO Publications during the fair.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 06 Jan 2018 10:35

Lethal War Machine #MakeInIndia -LCA TEJAS

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 06 Jan 2018 13:01

jaysimha wrote:
JayS wrote:
I have been trying to buy it for a while. All those monographs are available for sell. But most of the times the site doesn't work when I check. Not sure how to order exactly.
You might try here

https://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/whatsnew/W ... k-Fair.pdf

DRDO at World Book Fair - 2018
DESIDOC on behalf of DRDO will participate in the World
Book Fair 2018 during 06-14 January 2018 at Pragati Maidan,
New Delhi. All DRDO Scientists, Officers and Staff are requested
to visit Stall No.20 in Hanger Lake Side. DESIDOC will showcase
the complete array of DRDO Publications during the fair.

I sent email to desidoc. No reply so far. Going to Delhi is not feasible just for that. Dont have anyone in Delhi currently to pick it for me too.

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 06 Jan 2018 19:23

JayS wrote:...

I sent email to desidoc. No reply so far. Going to Delhi is not feasible just for that. Dont have anyone in Delhi currently to pick it for me too.

PM or mail me. Will give it a shot. No guarantees.

Haridas · Post by **Haridas** » 07 Jan 2018 00:09

DJ ji, will most likely have to go to Metcalf house, the clarks and section officers there are sleep loving babus.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 07 Jan 2018 12:15

For the records.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Jan 2018 14:15

^Is that Leh?
2 aams, 2 bums, 2 takis, 2 peepal (in cockpit)

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 07 Jan 2018 14:29

yes sir. Summer trials.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 07 Jan 2018 14:29

I think I had posted a pic earlier of 2 tanks + 2LGBs + LDP + 2 AAMs + 2 pilots.

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 07 Jan 2018 17:59

deejay wrote:
JayS wrote:...

I sent email to desidoc. No reply so far. Going to Delhi is not feasible just for that. Dont have anyone in Delhi currently to pick it for me too.
PM or mail me. Will give it a shot. No guarantees.

Thanks for the offer saar. Check your PM.

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 07 Jan 2018 18:06

shiv wrote:^Is that Leh?
2 aams, 2 bums, 2 takis, 2 peepal (in cockpit)

>3,5T ton Payload at Leh in Summers. We have had the discussion of these same trials before IIRC. LCA took off with this load with quite a bit of runway left. IIRC it has demonstrated 4+T payload at Leh with quite a bit of margin left for TO.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 07 Jan 2018 23:09

IIRC the heaviest that it has shown is 3.5 tons. It is true that there was runway to spare.

Do you remember the 4 ton config?