DefExpo 2018 Chennai

Bob V · Post by **Bob V** » 14 Apr 2018 17:16

Wheeled amphibious platform....The new name for Tata Kestrel

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 14 Apr 2018 17:53

shiv wrote:What was that IIR seeker for. Which mijjile?

Shiv, no missile was mentioned. It was just a stand-alone display. My guess is that (from the over-used display-mount) it was an earlier version of RCI's IIR seeker.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 14 Apr 2018 18:00

Bob V wrote:Wheeled amphibious platform....The new name for Tata Kestrel

It's always been the original name. Kestrel was adopted later.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 14 Apr 2018 18:01

Javee wrote:
arshyam wrote: Go as early as you can. Regarding your questions, my two detailed posts from the previous page should answer most of them. Please let me know if you have any other questions, happy to help.
Saar, you said no kids are allowed in the ships? Kids as in smallnkids or all kids in general?

They were enforcing a limit of 5 and under as not allowed. Above that they were allowed, but some ID proof is required. They were also strict about no handbags and cameras. So please plan to leave the in the car.

One more thing, if planning to go tomorrow. Carry some food to eat as there are no shops in the area. They provide only water, and INS Airavat served some Marie biscuits. I was thankful for the simple cream bun I ate on the way, as we went in at 06:45 and returned only 11.

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 14 Apr 2018 20:13

Will it be OK to wear shorts and t-shirt to the ship visit? Or is that considered disrespectful? The heat is oppressive now in Chennai.

Bob V · Post by **Bob V** » 14 Apr 2018 20:23

Anything is fine sir. Dess code matters only if you are invited as a guest. Here you are just a visitor.

nam · Post by **nam** » 14 Apr 2018 20:28

maz wrote:Nice work SSridhar! Thanks for sharing the pix. Interesting kit on display.

Any idea if the army is going to order the 8x8 WhAP or it still undecided?

Don't know if it has been ordered, however the one doing the demo has IA registration.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 14 Apr 2018 21:05

Bart S wrote:Will it be OK to wear shorts and t-shirt to the ship visit? Or is that considered disrespectful? The heat is oppressive now in Chennai.

I wore shorts yesterday, no one asked a thing.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 14 Apr 2018 21:10

I've begun to upload some of my pics to ~~Photobucket~~ Flickr. Will upload individual ones in the appropriate threads over the next few days.

Link to album

1 by arshyam, on Flickr

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 14 Apr 2018 21:18

shiv wrote:And what is WhAP?

It's the Wheeled Armoured Personnel carrier, aka Kestrel:

WHAP-1 by arshyam, on Flickr

WHAP-2 by arshyam, on Flickr

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 14 Apr 2018 21:19

nam wrote:
maz wrote:Nice work SSridhar! Thanks for sharing the pix. Interesting kit on display.

Any idea if the army is going to order the 8x8 WhAP or it still undecided?
Don't know if it has been ordered, however the one doing the demo has IA registration.

Yeah, this one has a registration number on it:

TATA-Kestrel (WhAP) by arshyam, on Flickr

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 14 Apr 2018 21:20

arshyam wrote:I've begun to upload some of my pics to Photobucket. Will upload individual ones in the appropriate threads over the next few days.

Shyam, the link is throwing an error.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 14 Apr 2018 22:02

Today the expo was filled with people everywere, but I was able to finish for which i went today. Thanks to Bob V for helping me out today and I have some 16GB worth images to gothrough & post other than this Bob too has some. Today we were also able to meet Prem Kumar. Have done walkaround of Dhanush MGS (which could answer qustions of many), Kalyani's ULH MGS, ATAGS, OFB 155mm M46 and L&T K9 VAJRA-T

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 14 Apr 2018 22:32

It was great to meet Kakarat and Bob V today at the DefExpo18!

Had a lovely time visiting various stalls. The Sarang helicopter display was awesome. The DRDO folks were very helpful with information. I felt that 1 day wasn't enough, especially considering that you had to wait 1.5 hrs to get good seats for the airshow.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 14 Apr 2018 22:48

Is Vem Technologies participating in this event? Any updates if it is?

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 14 Apr 2018 23:56

What turret is that on the WhAP?

Also any info on missiles - Akash Mk2, Man portable ATGM, glide bombs (I only saw pictures of SAAW posted) etc?

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 15 Apr 2018 00:56

Ok prem, out with some good info

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 15 Apr 2018 08:53

Karthik S wrote:
arshyam wrote:I've begun to upload some of my pics to Photobucket. Will upload individual ones in the appropriate threads over the next few days.
Shyam, the link is throwing an error.

Fixed the links saar. Photobucket decided to stop serving the images. Moved back to good ol' Flickr (link). Let me know if you still have trouble.

I've grouped them into 3: live demo, spec sheets, and the general expo photos.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 15 Apr 2018 09:56

It's opening. Thanks.

maz · Post by **maz** » 15 Apr 2018 10:07

Kakarat, I am looking forward to seeing your pix. pls contact me via email. thanks

Maz

maz · Post by **maz** » 15 Apr 2018 10:08

Arshyam, nice work with the pix. Thank you for sharing. Presumably you got to see the ships and planes and tanks doing their thing....?

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 15 Apr 2018 10:21

They didn't do much saar. The tank went around the demo area a couple of times and then stood on display. So did the other equipment (Chiranjeevi ARRV, BLT, etc.). It was a bit underwhelming, though my brain tells me that firing that big ass gun would have caused some minor issues

.

The ships did fire their guns on Thu (heard a distant boom) and I could see flares in the sky. But since I was stuck on the road to the expo site due to PM's security, I couldn't catch a good view of what was happening. Managed only a few vague pics.. No ship demo on Friday.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 15 Apr 2018 13:59

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/985413886915555328

Livefist Verified account @livefist

India’s StandOff Anti-Tank Missile (SANT) made an appearance at #DefExpo18. A 12-km range version of the HELINA air to surface munition, the weapon is undergoing carriage trials on IAF Mi-35s. First launch likely next year. For the Rudra/LCH/Rustom-II UAS.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 15 Apr 2018 15:18

Added another dozen or so photos with caption to my album here. That completes all my uploads.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 15 Apr 2018 17:48

60,000 people visited the naval ships, says IN

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 15 Apr 2018 18:02

Karan M: sharing a nugget or two I picked up:

1) Was talking to a DRDO gentleman and he explained about flares. He showed me comparative graphs of indigenous flares vs the imported ones from the UK. Ours significantly outperforms the imported one. He explained how modern IIR guided missiles work. He said they can distinguish between the tailpipe temperature of an aircraft (vs) that of the fuselage. Hence, they take this temperature differential to determine if they are looking at a real aircraft or a decoy. He said the homegrown flares are able to mimic a real aircraft's temperature differential and can sustain this for a longer period of time than the UK ones. He said they had requests from the UK-wallahs on how we were able to accomplish this!

2) An NPOL gentleman showed me a single module of the ALTAS towed array sonar. He said that they have a very competitive homegrown product that works well in Indian maritime conditions. He said that the foreign OEMs have a boatload of PR money and have fancy brochures. But their towed array sonars don't quite work as well as the desi ones. He also said that the press coverage of DRDO/Indigenous weapons was consistently negative. Though he said that DRDO had a long way to catch up in several areas, they had some good products which don't deserve to be dissed. On the ultra-low-frequency towed array sonar, he said that the R&D for that hasn't even begun. He said there were several new technologies that had to be built before it can become reality (something about size/spacing of modules etc etc). He also said that Make In India is a free-for-all for local private players to just license manufacture in collaboration with foreign OEMs. There's no special emphasis on indigenization. He felt DRDO was a cross-roads & have a bit of an existential crisis on what kind of organization they should become

What I also found really cool was that the cable to deploy the ALTAS sonar was a pretty sophisticated one. Its an electro-opto-mechanical cable. In addition to being a winch operated mechanical cable, it also:

a) Supplies power to the towed array transmitter
b) Contains a fibre optic core to transmit signals
c) The sonar receiver module itself is pretty sophisticated. Its encased in a very tough polymer, but it also need to be flexible enough to be wound around the winch when the array is not deployed

3) The NPOL gent also showed me the wireless communication device between ships and submarines. It replaces an imported one. Apparently the data transmission is encrypted but the voice isn't (he said you can listen in if you know the frequency, just like a radio!). Apparently, this is kind of the norm for that device.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 15 Apr 2018 18:07

darshhan wrote:Is Vem Technologies participating in this event? Any updates if it is?

Yes. I went to their stall. They had a few things displayed

1) A laser guided bomb - guidance kit, tail fins etc. 1000 lbs

2) A man portable ATGM. I believe he said it was 15 or 17 Kgs. Don't remember exactly

3) They had a general purpose bomb as well but with midbody and tail fins. When I asked if it doesn't have a guidance, he said it doesn't. He said the pilot puts the target in a box and releases the weapon. I guess the aircraft's onboard computer will be calibrated for this particular bomb and wind/altitude conditions

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 15 Apr 2018 18:32

The SAAB guys were pretty friendly (which was rare among foreign vendors in DefExpo). They let us carry and aim with a Carl Gustaf. We were there when they opened and they told me that they "might" let us play with a simulator of an RBS-70 (laser beam riding man portable SAM). But by the time we got around to it, there was a lot of crowd and we lost the opportunity.

They were also handing out freebies like caps with Gripen-NG embroidered. Clearly, they were eager to impress (no prizes for guessing why) & weren't acting uppity like Lockheed Martin.

Boeing promoted on Twitter pics of people trying out their F/A-18 super hornet simulator. But they had shut it down on the general admissions day. I can imagine a mile long queue in front of that one if they had kept it open

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 15 Apr 2018 19:37

Livefist Verified account @livefist

Indian P17A stealth frigate model surfaces at DefExpo. Take a close look at the deck features. What do you think? Deliveries from MDL & GRSE from 2022-25. Discussion thread: https://www.facebook.com/Livefist/posts ... 5326387083 …

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 15 Apr 2018 20:55

For a vessel so large, around 5000t, the missile load is v.sad.Just 8 BMos.The puny Buyan corvettes of around 1500t carry 8 Kalibir missiles! SAM modules inadequate for saturated missile attacks.The ASW mortars being at the same level as all forward weaponry, could've been forward of the missile silos, allowing more VLS modules for SSMs and SAMs.In a new Ru design, the ASW rocket launchers are on either side of the main gun ,set back a little. In Sov. era vessels, the MBUs were always forward at the bows. Here they are not raised up by one deck level which may affect training the launchers when firing dead ahead since the main gun obstructs them.

No idea where the ASW TTs are located. There should also be a secondary anti-missile SAM system with a range of upto 20+km on either beam aft of the main stack/mizzen mast. Either independent , like SR Barak (or an inegrated gun/ missile turret.

PS: Just ckd the signage on the link.6, 600t! That's more than a Rajput DDG and equal to the first batch of Delhis.
The modified Rajputs can carry upto 8-12 BMos , SAN-1 plus Barak and gatlings. Interesting detail that the USN is building its DDGs to last 45 yrs.Their LCS vessels are now a declared disaster bedevilled with problems and grossly underarmed.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 15 Apr 2018 22:23

Thanks prem

Bob V · Post by **Bob V** » 16 Apr 2018 04:12

That's the conceptualized design for the P-17A class & according to the gent at the MDL stall, the construction is well in progress.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 16 Apr 2018 13:59

Last batch of photos on aerial displays from DefExpo18 dryrun on Sunday next walk around of OFB BEML 155mm 52cal MGS

https://twitter.com/kakarat2001/status/ ... 1993331712
https://twitter.com/kakarat2001/status/ ... 6502984705

I have a total 2500+ photos to sort edit and post other than brochures which is going to tale a lot of time so kindly bare with me

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 16 Apr 2018 14:20

Wallpaper version Image of ARJUN Armoured Recovery and Repair Vehicle (ARRV) CHIRANJEEVI
https://twitter.com/kakarat2001/status/ ... 5224283136

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 16 Apr 2018 14:20

A round-up report on DEFEXPO.
Was sent some pics of the last days.Chaos unlimited.No space even for a flea.Had there been any stampede hundreds would've died.The road to the venue,a traffic jam all the way back to town.Pics of ships with visitors resemble trains in Bihar with passengers enjoying the "scenic car" exterior seating..sorry,hanging on!

I suggest that in future,all defexpos should have only biz visitors ,or hugely increase the cost of open day tkts.,and the habit of free passes to DPSU families and friends banned.Otherwise it becomes just another tamasha.There should be at least 3 bizdays so that people from all over the country and the services can visit at least on one day.Perhaps one day,the first say,can be reserved solely for the Indian defence service visitors and key DRDO and Indian industry heads. Since this will be the first day when a VVIP opens the show,only half a day+ is usually available for visitors.
This way,service and DRDO/DPSU visitors need not compete when other biz visitors arrive. These VIP visitors cna also visit the show on other biz days too.

https://www.dailyo.in/variety/defence-e ... 23495.html
[quote]
What Defence Expo 2018 achieved for India
Almost every major global defence manufacturer was in Chennai to retain and expand its market.
| 15-04-2018
Brig SK Chatterji (retd)---

Defence Expo 2018, the 10th edition of the biennial global exhibition of defence equipment in India, started on a tentative note on the April 11. During former defence minister Manohar Parrikar's tenure, the event had been shifted from Delhi to Goa. The decision to hold it at Chennai this time, seems to have been taken after long deliberations.

The delay notwithstanding, the Defence Expo was attended by 670 companies, including 154 from abroad.

With its theme as "India: The Emerging Defence Hub", the event did serve the purpose quite adequately. Official delegations from 47 countries attended the expo. A large number of defence attachés of various countries visited number of stalls to familiarise themselves with Indian products they could import to meet their domestic requirements.

This was also the first time that I found all our defence attachés posted abroad had been marshalled for the event. Along with them were those who had received their postings to various capitals and were scheduled to join their assignments, shortly. For a country which envisages achieving a turnover of Rs 1,70,000 crore in military goods and services by 2025, a concerted effort using every possible resource is invariably the need.

The requirement of our defence attachés playing a role in promoting our goods and services in countries they are accredited to, is also equally essential. Of course, should we want results, accretion of staff would be the requirement at such capitals where business volumes could appreciably enhance.

Participation by foreign companies witnessed a dip this year. As compared to 490 companies which attended the event in Goa in 2016, it was only 154 at Chennai. What may have served as a dampener was the Indian thrust on indigenisation of defence production. However, the top global defence companies were present in strength. Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Saab (Sweden), Thales, Airbus, Rostec State Corporation (Russia), BAE Systems, MBDA, MoD Slovak Republic, Naval Group, and even a few South Korean, German, Finnish companies put up their stalls, among others.

The Indian charge was led by the big banners such as Tata, Mahindra, Kalyani, Adani, and also included Zen Technologies, MKU. It was also heartening to find a fair number of players in the unmanned aerial vehicles segment. DRDO, defence public sector undertakings and the ordnance factories were there in good strength. Most of our ship and submarine builders also had their models on display. The Micro Small Medium Enterprises (MSME) were well represented.

Other than business meetings on the sides, a large number of seminars and press briefings were simultaneously held. Our defence industry requires the participation of the academia and our research institutions of excellence to achieve indigenisation of defence production. This was the first time that I found IIT Madras running a seminar with Bharat Shakti as its partner. A series of technologies being developed by IIT Madras for the defence sector, were presented.

Defence Expo 2018 also witnessed the signing of a large number of memorandums of understanding and partnerships. A few important ones include an agreement between Boeing, HAL and Mahindras to produce F/A 18 Super Hornet jets in India. With Indians set to buy 110 fighter aircraft, the partnership provides Boeing a bit more muscle, once the bloodbath to wrap up the contract gets underway.

Kalyani Group and BAE Systems have got into a strategic partnership to produce air defence guns and ammunition. Incidentally, the current air defence guns in service with the Indian armed forces are mostly dated and the inventory needs induction of modern platforms. Kalyani Group artillery product profile, including a large number of models in the 155mm category and the Advanced Towed Artillery Gun System (in collaboration with DRDO) were on display.

Goa Shipyard and Naval Group announced a partnership for manufacturing simulators for training of crews for submarines. The two companies have already collaborated in manufacturing of simulators for naval platforms.

Rolls-Royce and Goa Shipyard teamed up to build MTU Series 2000 engines used for Offshore Patrol Vehicles (OPV). A large number of OPVs have been constructed by Shipyard and provided to Indian Navy and the coastguards. OPVs are also being built by Reliance Defence and Larsen & Toubro. There is obviously a market there for the engines.

In November, 2017, the Indian government had approved the purchase of utility helicopters for the Indian Navy. One of the contenders is the Kamov 226T of Russian Helicopters. At the Defence Expo, Russian Helicopters announced its invitation to its Indian counterparts to visit their facilities. 200 Kamovs are on offer with a production facility also being set up in India.

Tata Sons announced the consolidation of its various businesses across aerospace and defence sectors together under Tata Aerospace & Defence (Tata A&D). The move is bound to lead to some surpluses at the apex management levels. It will be interesting to see how Tata Sons navigates through the amalgamation process.

A cutting edge product on display at the L&T MBDA Missile Systems stall was the ATGM 5, a fifth generation anti-tank guided missile. MBDA has over 45 missile systems and counter measures in its product range. The Indian armed forces require a plethora of missile systems thereby offering MBDA adequate opportunities of enhancing business volumes in India, leveraging the advantage of its products being in service already with the Indian armed forces.

BrahMos Aerospace, an Indo-Russian joint venture, announced the development of an indigenous seeker that will replace the Russian product currently being used on its BrahMos missiles. The company is also working on enhancing the range of the missile from 280km to 500km. An Indian warhead and missile speed of over Mach 5, five times the speed of sound, is being pursued. Obviously, dependence on Russians is intended to be diluted.

The tilt in our defence acquisitions shifting the US way was quite evident. So far an exceedingly high percentage of our imported equipment has been of Russian origin; 68 per cent of the imports during the period from 2012 to 16. However, the Americans have piped the Russians to the post. The American delegation at the venue was also a high powered one, with the American ambassador leading a team of 17 that included both service officers and business representatives.

Irrespective of the lead which Americans have taken, with $250 billion likely to be spent over the next 10 years by the Indian government for force modernisation, almost every major global defence manufacturer was in Chennai to retain and expand its market. The only prominent absentees were the Chinese. They had been invited, though.

For Indian companies in the defence sector, the Defence Expo surely was a boost. A large representation of MSMEs at the expo was evidence of opportunities opening up in the defence sector as we continue with the emphasis on indigenisation and Make in India. Equally true is the fact that if indigenisation is to progress we require to have a sound eco-system of MSMEs.

The curtains have since come down at the Defence Expo 2018. A large variety of equipment to include tanks, guns, armoured personnel carriers, truck mounted radar systems and command posts, missiles, brought in for display have been mounted on long bodied trucks and leave a trail of dust behind as they exit the venue.

The helicopters have flown beyond the horizon, nor is the Sarang team weaving patterns in the sky. For defence professionals, enthusiasts and corporate executives, the next trip they look forward to would be the Bengaluru Aero India in 2019./quote]

PS:Take a dekko at this 5 min vclip of Naval Group,formerly DCNS which gave us the Scorpene.There is a pic/representation of the torpedo room showing how the fish are racked,rather different from other methods.6 in the tubes and 12 in the racks.
http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... -2018.html

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 16 Apr 2018 16:25

Philip wrote:A round-up report on DEFEXPO.
Was sent some pics of the last days.Chaos unlimited.No space even for a flea.Had there been any stampede hundreds would've died.The road to the venue,a traffic jam all the way back to town.Pics of ships with visitors resemble trains in Bihar with passengers enjoying the "scenic car" exterior seating..sorry,hanging on!

I suggest that in future,all defexpos should have only biz visitors ,or hugely increase the cost of open day tkts.,and the habit of free passes to DPSU families and friends banned.Otherwise it becomes just another tamasha.There should be at least 3 bizdays so that people from all over the country and the services can visit at least on one day.Perhaps one day,the first say,can be reserved solely for the Indian defence service visitors and key DRDO and Indian industry heads. Since this will be the first day when a VVIP opens the show,only half a day+ is usually available for visitors.
This way,service and DRDO/DPSU visitors need not compete when other biz visitors arrive. These VIP visitors cna also visit the show on other biz days too.

We were there on the last day, yes it was crowded but not chaotic. The police managed it better on that day, things were much better than the parking issue on the first day. The organisers learnt from it and made better arrangements on the last day. the traffic jam was mainly due to the large number of visitors exiting the venue otherwise majority of the traffic was diverted through a alternative parallel road. what do you expect from a ship visit when the entire city is wanting to visit them on just 3 days?

I am sorry I dont accept to your Idea against open days then how would general public get to see defense equipments? Not everyone could pay Rs2000 to enter the exhibition, better thing to do would be to have 2 or 3 open days and make it compulsory for the exhibitors to stay open on those days

Over all it was a well organised exhibition, what surprised me was that they were cleaning the rest rooms even when there was only couple of hrs to close of the exhibition

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 16 Apr 2018 16:53

Walkaround of OFB BEML 155mm 52cal MGS

https://twitter.com/kakarat2001/status/ ... 6082390017
https://twitter.com/kakarat2001/status/ ... 0974963712
https://twitter.com/kakarat2001/status/ ... 6695741440

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 16 Apr 2018 17:58

Philip wrote:A round-up report on DEFEXPO.
Was sent some pics of the last days.Chaos unlimited.No space even for a flea.Had there been any stampede hundreds would've died.The road to the venue,a traffic jam all the way back to town.Pics of ships with visitors resemble trains in Bihar with passengers enjoying the "scenic car" exterior seating..sorry,hanging on!

The last day was open to public, it is expected, nothing new. It has literally become a picnic spot with about 70K people visiting (33K on the last day alone), looking at the response Navy bought in the 5th ship. End of the day, the services folks are happy to interact with people, i'm sure if its not for anything, its a proud moment for most civilians who went to see the ship, optics matter.

I suggest that in future,all defexpos should have only biz visitors ,or hugely increase the cost of open day tkts.,and the habit of free passes to DPSU families and friends banned.Otherwise it becomes just another tamasha.There should be at least 3 bizdays so that people from all over the country and the services can visit at least on one day.

The first 3 days were opened up for business visitors and the last day was for general public. Infact none of the rep's were even there onsite on the last day, the counters were manned by CISF/CRPF ? combo. I strongly disagree that these shows should not be open to public, this is the easiest way to cultivate/form a strong opinion of our manufacturing/indigenisation efforts. The common lament is that we dont build anything world class, people visiting these shows will start appreciating what apna folks do.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 16 Apr 2018 18:53

Kakarat, nice pictures.

maz · Post by **maz** » 16 Apr 2018 19:38

SSridhar, please watermark your pictures ASAP.