India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

[pankajs]

Agree with Nachiket. This is my biggest concern with our status-quoist approach. We had the upper hand (still do) in terms of acclimatized personnel & more troops.

Every day we delay and not capture some other part of the LAC (or evict the Chinese from their encroachments) is a day that the enemy eats away at our advantage. We have a pattern of such behavior:

1962: didn't use our Air Force
1999: didn't cross LOC

Our leadership (both civilian and military) repeatedly constrains ourselves & makes it harder for the average jawan. Its almost as if we don't want to fight a war where we have an advantage.

Yes our preference is to avoid bloodshed unless absolutely necessary. If there was firing every time the Chinese cross LAC there would be no intrusions. We have allowed our hands to be tied with RoE at the LAC while Chinese are busy violating the LAC on a regular basis knowing fully well that the RoE protected their misadventures.

I will also share something that I told one of my relatives on the Jul 15/16 clash. IFFFF Modi had been informed of the Chinese refusal to vacate PP-14, he would NOT have allowed Indian Army to go and evict them but instead called for more talks.

It was a freak *accident* that led to the July 14/16 clash and made Modi look decisive for that moment and turned the narrative for a while. Now we are back on the glide path to talks and more talks while the Chinese continue building.

I, however, believe that Modi will not concede to the Chinese play and would ultimately reverse the incursions. It is the old Indian habit of exhausting all options before fighting and it WILL cost more Indian lives that if the Chinese had been evicted pronto. On that point I am fully with you.

[Cyrano]

The triangular patch has Chinese structures. Its not the colour of the tents, look at which way the fortifications are oriented. They shield from fire coming from the east, i.e. Indian side.

While we are talking, they are building. I don't know what IA & GoI are thinking.

[Cyrano]

pankajs, agree 100%

[parashara]

The triangular patch has Chinese structures. Its not the colour of the tents, look at which way the fortifications are oriented. They shield from fire coming from the east, i.e. Indian side.

While we are talking, they are building. I don't know what IA & GoI are thinking.

Actually the indian positions (as you are describing them) are to the west and slightly north of this triangular patch.
I agree that there appear to be structures shielding for fire from the west. However, I can see structures that also seem to be shielding for fire from the E and SE.
A leading analyst seems to think that the pink structures in this patch are ours. And I am inclined to believe him.
But what is definite is that the patch itself is on our side. So it would be a bit disturbing if those structures were theirs.

[Cyrano]

There are three kinds of defence:

Frontier Defence means put forts and bases near the frontier to defend

Defence in Depth: Put Defence areas away from frontier at place that can be defended

Fortress Defence: Put many troops in an are to prevent it from falling to opponents.

Offensive Defence Go to you opponent and destroy their bases.

ramana garu, my earlier post on Depsang assumes IA's defensive posture in that theatre is Frontier Defence supported by Defence in Depth. Especially given we've been forewarned since May.

But I could be wrong.

[Cyrano]

The triangular patch has Chinese structures. Its not the colour of the tents, look at which way the fortifications are oriented. They shield from fire coming from the east, i.e. Indian side.

While we are talking, they are building. I don't know what IA & GoI are thinking.

Actually the indian positions (as you are describing them) are to the west and slightly north of this triangular patch.
I agree that there appear to be structures shielding for fire from the west. However, I can see structures that also seem to be shielding for fire from the E and SE.
A leading analyst seems to think that the pink structures in this patch are ours. And I am inclined to believe him.
But what is definite is that the patch itself is on our side. So it would be a bit disturbing if those structures were theirs.

Apologies, my bad. I meant to say :
They shield from fire coming from the West / NW, i.e. Indian side.

It seems the leading analyst has rectified his remarks. They are not ours. So disturbing indeed.

[pankajs]

If the situation goes kinetic, PLA has to send waves upon waves of attackers, and be ready to take heavy losses until they eliminate our troops on the heights and along the nallah. Their mechanised vehicles can bring reinforcements only up to the bend since they have put up narrow roads until there, but even one vehicle breaking down or destroyed could cause a log jam and leave their forward troops unaided. If IA troops are forced to retreat along the nallah, they can set off charges on the slopes on either side and the resulting rock fall can once again block the Chinese.

While I have no military background, it seems to me the gap through which the Galwan river flows from China to India can be held if we were to occupy both flanks of the valley on the Indian side.

Also, Yesterdin, I took a very close look at the area immediately after the gap on the Indian side and to me it look pretty narrow for some distance to allow for any wave upon wave tactics. The Galwan valley is rarely wider that 30 meters for the first 3.0 km after crossing the LAC. Proper hilltop position with adequate ammunition would lead to a turkey shoot scenario to my non-military mind. Imagine waves upon waves of Chinese emerging from a 30 meter side passage with one machine gun focused on them from the left hill, one from the right hill and one from the front and few Carl Gustaf too in the mix.

Plus, wave upon wave tactics needs additional pressure points/flanking move to work but here there is only one narrow passage for frontal attack that is overlooked by hill tops on the Indian side. That to my non-military mind looks very dicey.

Plus, the Chinese side too is sufficiently narrow that will force bunching of the Chinese troops that are to form the wave upon wave making it such a juicy target for bomb drops.

My guess is that the Chinese want to win by show of strength, bluster and grinding us down at the negotiating table.

[Cyrano]

Exactly, thats my point. And the way to grind us at the negotiating table seems to be to continue nibbling away 10s of meters at a time and put up structures while making a pretence of talking.

What worries me is that we don't see IA setting up pill boxes along the nallah and taking firing positions on the heights or threatening with attack helis and Mirage2000 over flights.

So far we seem to be in a defensive defence posture. There may be good reasons for it, but its definitely doesn't seem to discourage the Chinese tactics. Just look at their official statements reported today.

[YashG]

If the situation goes kinetic, PLA has to send waves upon waves of attackers, and be ready to take heavy losses until they eliminate our troops on the heights and along the nallah. Their mechanised vehicles can bring reinforcements only up to the bend since they have put up narrow roads until there, but even one vehicle breaking down or destroyed could cause a log jam and leave their forward troops unaided. If IA troops are forced to retreat along the nallah, they can set off charges on the slopes on either side and the resulting rock fall can once again block the Chinese.

While I have no military background, it seems to me the gap through which the Galwan river flows from China to India can be held if we were to occupy both flanks of the valley on the Indian side.

Also, Yesterdin, I took a very close look at the area immediately after the gap on the Indian side and to me it look pretty narrow for some distance to allow for any wave upon wave tactics. The Galwan valley is rarely wider that 30 meters for the first 3.0 km after crossing the LAC. Proper hilltop position with adequate ammunition would lead to a turkey shoot scenario to my non-military mind. Imagine waves upon waves of Chinese emerging from a 30 meter side passage with one machine gun focused on them from the left hill, one from the right hill and one from the front and few Carl Gustaf too in the mix.

Plus, wave upon wave tactics needs additional pressure points/flanking move to work but here there is only one narrow passage for frontal attack that is overlooked by hill tops on the Indian side. That to my non-military mind looks very dicey.

Plus, the Chinese side too is sufficiently narrow that will force bunching of the Chinese troops that are to form the wave upon wave making it such a juicy target for bomb drops.

My guess is that the Chinese want to win by show of strength, bluster and grinding us down at the negotiating table.

Turkey shoot - Obv Chinese wont let that happen. They obviously have other plans. both PLA and IA must have gamed this like chess by now - only speed of deployment, mobility and other (unpredictable) technology factors will make this game unpredictable. Say use of armed drones by China. or ability to quickly posture with rocket forces at the other end or something else that we are not looking at right now. Armed drones can tactically look less escalatory but can hit at heights and are risk-free. A shoulder fired missile will perhaps cost in the same range as a cheap drone spewed out by chinese MIC.

@nam spoke about the artillery - that was interesting point as well. It will be small differences like these that will change the course of what has already been planned ( v shud talk about those also!). But I always expect Indian to be able to think faster on the move. We're better dynamic thinkers.

[YashG]

What worries me is that we don't see IA setting up pill boxes along the nallah and taking firing positions on the heights or threatening with attack helis and Mirage2000 over flights.

I hope we are doing somethng better. But this point worries me too. I hope some news will tell us otherwise. Latest sat pics.

[Larry Walker]

I keep coming across this 10:1 ratio for defender vs attacker - and I am not sure whether it has any sound military logic to it. If it is the case - then when would we ever achieve that parity over Pakistan and so why does our political dispensation keep floating the Pok-GB balloon ??

[pankajs]

Embedding the pic here:



This is worrisome. This was the area where the previous structures were destroyed during the clash. The new ones are more substantive and even shows what looks like a pillbox. These guys move really fast when they are building up structures and infra.

Ok ..2 further points ..

1. What fortification are folks talking about? The black line on the Indian side of the triangle is also present on the clean GE pic. Looks like a natural feature that can mean that this is a ledge and black line is the shadow of the ledge.

2. IFF you look carefully back of the RED line, that is supposed to represent the LAC, on the Chinese side .. you will notice NEAT line of SQUARE looking tents one behind the other and I can count 4 of them.

Why is it that the Chinese have such NEAT & SQUARE tents LINED up properly on their side of the LAC but immediately on crossing the LAC have a camp that is WORSE than any Indian camp on the LAC?

The ONLY neat structure on the triangle is the NEAT circular structure that by its neatness and it perfect geometry seems Chinese.

That is not to say that the triangle is with the Indians BUT the Chinese are NOT displaying the usual trait as soon as they cross the LAC. That is indeed very puzzling.

I have a different explanation of situation on the Triangle.

1. The "black line" boundary of the triangle is shadow of the Ledge that is the triangle.
2. The flow of the river was channel in some way that allowed the Chinese to build on their side and I disagree with the Abhijit Iyer that it was dammed. It caused some water backup but not too much else we would have a lake on the Chinese side.
3. Indians crossed over to the Chinese side to take revenge and not to demolish some imaginary dam. In the melee some equipment/structure/restrain was toppled and that resulted in some damage to the channeling work done by the Chinese.
4. This resulted in release of blocked water that swept the triangular ledge carrying with it some derbies. Those construction derbies are right now on the triangular ledge.
5. Also remember, 16 Chinese dead where handed over by Indians but the fighting occurred on the Chinese side! How did the bodies land up on the Indian side? Also remember there was a landslide that caused a lot of deaths.

It is possible that it was the landslide on the Chinese side that dumped tonnes of derbies including Chinese setup on the slope that ultimately cause the Galwan river to overflow the triangular ledge and deposited the torn down Chinese tents, etc on the triangular ledge. The water surge following the landslide would also have carried the bodies of the Chinese over to the Indian side.

That explains what we see on the ledge EXCEPT that neat circular structure that is too Chinese to be Indian.

[pankajs]

Turkey shoot - Obv Chinese wont let that happen. They obviously have other plans. both PLA and IA must have gamed this like chess by now - only speed of deployment, mobility and other (unpredictable) technology factors will make this game unpredictable. Say use of armed drones by China. or ability to quickly posture with rocket forces at the other end or something else that we are not looking at right now. Armed drones can tactically look less escalatory but can hit at heights and are risk-free. A shoulder fired missile will perhaps cost in the same range as a cheap drone spewed out by chinese MIC.

@nam spoke about the artillery - that was interesting point as well. It will be small differences like these that will change the course of what has already been planned ( v shud talk about those also!). But I always expect Indian to be able to think faster on the move. We're better dynamic thinkers.

Most of my point was defensive i.e. on our side.

To attack gun position on top of ridges on Indian side the Chinese would fire across the LAC and that will mean India too will cross the LAC and directly attack the Chinese solders bunched up behind the LAC.

If top speed fighters can be brought down drones don't stand a chance once IA factors them in. The only thing is surprise induction of new weapons that IA has not though of.

Artillery does not look like a solution in these narrow valleys. It can be effective only if it is a precision strike else a waste of time and resources.

[KL Dubey]

Turkey shoot - Obv Chinese wont let that happen. They obviously have other plans. both PLA and IA must have gamed this like chess by now - only speed of deployment, mobility and other (unpredictable) technology factors will make this game unpredictable.

I thought about this extensively. In any escalation to battle, it seems like a total decimation of the PLA by IA and IAF...the single G-219 highway being their only in/out route.

I do not think their intention is to fight any more, since their "pincer" game was already foiled in May. Probably they are trying to show some assertiveness before the pullout to avoid losing face.

[Larry Walker]

Also - I dont understand the euphemism of "changing status quo" - what does this mean ? We keep hearing this even in GoI communiques - what exactly does changing status quo encompass ?? Is it s a docile way if saying we lost some land ??

[RamSuresh]

That explains what we see on the ledge EXCEPT that neat circular structure that is too Chinese to be Indian.

The circular structure looks like a placemarker added in the satellite picture. Does not look like it is part of the terrain

[AdityaM]

Year old video shows how Chinese have better road access to Pangong. Clearly they can bring in truckloads of men quickly at finger 4

https://twitter.com/freakingbeasts/stat ... 65793?s=21

https://twitter.com/freakingbeasts/stat ... 15648?s=21

[pankajs]

I keep coming across this 10:1 ratio for defender vs attacker - and I am not sure whether it has any sound military logic to it. If it is the case - then when would we ever achieve that parity over Pakistan and so why does our political dispensation keep floating the Pok-GB balloon ??

Because ...

1. We are not opportunistic as opposed to the Chinese or the bakis. Hell, we fought for Bangladesh and yet carried over all our border disputes with East Bakistan to Bangladesh rather than imposing our version on them when they were in no position to resist. Later, we settled some of it by giving more territory than getting in return. AND this deal was closed under Modi. That is the level of our Gandhain values.

2. We fighting as the last option and something that has to be treated with contempt. Our previous PM "proudly" declared that India would rather take the first Nuclear hit and then retaliate than start a Nuclear war. This was with respect to Bakistan.

So fighting over Pok-GB will be the LAST option and something that is very distasteful rather than something that of the first options and something to look forward to.

In plains you need 1/3 troops to defend as to attack IFFF the other factors liek resources, training, tactics, etc are held constant. In mountains it increases to up to 12x though it varies from terrain to terrain.

[vishvak]

I do not think their intention is to fight any more, since their "pincer" game was already foiled in May. Probably they are trying to show some assertiveness before the pullout to avoid losing face.

Even so we still must keep be clinical about how their MIC has kept their preparedness up. They seem to live by that to bully and also for salami slicing while buying time.

Hell, we fought for Bangladesh and yet carried over all our border disputes with East Bakistan to Bangladesh rather

Which is why goal of Indian MIC could also to guarantee Tibetan freedom and such. Nobody else is gonna help except to add to troubles and squat around.

[parashara]

1. The "black line" boundary of the triangle is shadow of the Ledge that is the triangle.

Agreed. I surmised as much as well. One can see the ledge and its shadow clearly from pics where the galwan is flowing low.

[nishant.gupta]

OT: My first post. Been a "guest" for years and finally got my commissioning!

Shiv Aroor on India Today yesterday spoke about this Galwan build up and cited Army sources saying that the IA can spank the Han army any time they want since "they are deployed on heights". I guess if this is true even though not available on open source maps, that would mean we are really good at hiding our true positions.
https://twitter.com/IndiaToday/status/1 ... 7713620999

I have been following the Galwan discussion here that started yesterday and was wondering if it was important to note that the access road to PP14 after this new construction is coming from the Chinese side in the NE direction? I would assume that that simple thing would lead to the conclusion that this was a Chinese post. Plz correct me if I missed something.

Having seen Chinese heavy equipment at the river bed earlier, its evident that they have been dredging the river to deepen it so that water can flow in a narrower space leaving more place for them to build a road. I think that was the "dam building" which I don't think would be the correct assumption since dam would result in a lake being formed somewhere up the river which I could not see anywhere.

Will love to get inputs on this from the gurus here.

[parashara]

It seems the leading analyst has rectified his remarks. They are not ours. So disturbing indeed.

Well I meant Gokhale. And it doesn't appear that he has retracted or modified anything he's said earlier

[YashG]

Turkey shoot - Obv Chinese wont let that happen. They obviously have other plans. both PLA and IA must have gamed this like chess by now - only speed of deployment, mobility and other (unpredictable) technology factors will make this game unpredictable.

I thought about this extensively. In any escalation to battle, it seems like a total decimation of the PLA by IA and IAF...the single G-219 highway being their only in/out route.

I do not think their intention is to fight any more, since their "pincer" game was already foiled in May. Probably they are trying to show some assertiveness before the pullout to avoid losing face.

I dont see any pullout. If anything it will be very very very gradual thinning of troops while keeping us on tenterhooks - since we would only be reacting. Thats the problem of being reactionary. I'm sure IA can do damage elsewhere but they need a go ahead from higher ups. Liek many here said - the more we wait, the more Chinese balance up.

If anything Chinese are irritating us and looking for their pound of flesh - they will go once they tear it off us. But I want us to bite them bad, so they dont come back again. But there are peacenik cartels in India who are not letting Modi play his moves.

[SSridhar]

OT: My first post. Been a "guest" for years and finally got my commissioning!

Welcome to the board.

[parashara]

Yeh lo!
This tweet from Lt. Gen. Bhatia confounds matters even further.

https://twitter.com/Ptr6Vb/status/12758 ... 61696?s=20

Something's afoot.

I am going to leave it to the forces and sarkaar to clarify. I think they know exactly what's going on and are letting it play out to their benefit.

No more sat photo based tehekeekaat for me. :-}

[Larry Walker]

I read an article today morning in ToI - it quoted a top government minister that Chin wants to teach India a lesson and show it it's place in the neighborhood and world community - so I think in jigesh echelons of Government the realisation is dawning that this is not about Finger 4 or 5. China doesn't covet the land it is trying to occupy - it is trying to challenge GoI to push them back if they can and they will keep intruding more and more inside till we fight a short sharp war with them. Their calculation is either they humiliate GoI if they don't act or humiliate Indian Armed forces if it goes to short-sharp war.

[Larry Walker]

I have no military background, but I think that numerical superiority that attacking force requires to target am enemy sitting on the leak is precisely because the enemy sitting on the peak has view of all approach axis and can reorient their fire towards the axis of advance - so to overwhelm you got to approach from all axis and hence 10:1 or whatever the ratio. Galwan valley slopes are very steep - which means that IA cannot fight moving from position to position as movement on the slopes and across ridge lines is almost impossible under fire. Secondly, the Chinese attempting to hit DSDBO road will not try to climb the slope and directly attack the India positions on the top - their intent is to rush to the Shyok confluence. In this scenario - few or handful of fixed defences much higher than the valley floor will not have much effect in stopping them, and if the defensive positions are lower and nearer to valley floor, then they are as much lin-of-sight to Chinese as to Chinese are to them. And this is where their 105mm T-15 will come in as Infantry support.

[pankajs]

Embedding the pic here:



This is worrisome. This was the area where the previous structures were destroyed during the clash. The new ones are more substantive and even shows what looks like a pillbox. These guys move really fast when they are building up structures and infra.

Ok ..2 further points ..

1. What fortification are folks talking about? The black line on the Indian side of the triangle is also present on the clean GE pic. Looks like a natural feature that can mean that this is a ledge and black line is the shadow of the ledge.

2. IFF you look carefully back of the RED line, that is supposed to represent the LAC, on the Chinese side .. you will notice NEAT line of SQUARE looking tents one behind the other and I can count 4 of them.

Why is it that the Chinese have such NEAT & SQUARE tents LINED up properly on their side of the LAC but immediately on crossing the LAC have a camp that is WORSE than any Indian camp on the LAC?

The ONLY neat structure on the triangle is the NEAT circular structure that by its neatness and it perfect geometry seems Chinese.

That is not to say that the triangle is with the Indians BUT the Chinese are NOT displaying the usual trait as soon as they cross the LAC. That is indeed very puzzling.

I have a different explanation of situation on the Triangle.

1. The "black line" boundary of the triangle is shadow of the Ledge that is the triangle.
2. The flow of the river was channel in some way that allowed the Chinese to build on their side and I disagree with the Abhijit Iyer that it was dammed. It caused some water backup but not too much else we would have a lake on the Chinese side.
3. Indians crossed over to the Chinese side to take revenge and not to demolish some imaginary dam. In the melee some equipment/structure/restrain was toppled and that resulted in some damage to the channeling work done by the Chinese.
4. This resulted in release of blocked water that swept the triangular ledge carrying with it some derbies. Those construction derbies are right now on the triangular ledge.
5. Also remember, 16 Chinese dead where handed over by Indians but the fighting occurred on the Chinese side! How did the bodies land up on the Indian side? Also remember there was a landslide that caused a lot of deaths.

It is possible that it was the landslide on the Chinese side that dumped tonnes of derbies including Chinese setup on the slope that ultimately cause the Galwan river to overflow the triangular ledge and deposited the torn down Chinese tents, etc on the triangular ledge. The water surge following the landslide would also have carried the bodies of the Chinese over to the Indian side.

That explains what we see on the ledge EXCEPT that neat circular structure that is too Chinese to be Indian.

Further ..

Focus on the RED line denoting the LAC. On the right bottom side it end on a hill/hillock. Notice the direction of the shadows.There are 2 big shadows, one at the base on white sand and other front top on the next level. There are also other smaller shadows in that structure.

Focus next on the stream to the right of this hill that merges with the Galwan just at the bend. Just about that point one can see a ledge and a show there too.

The 2 structure and their shadows indicate the direction and angle of the Sun.

Going back to the triangle, the black line towards the Indian side aligns with the what how a shadow would be cast if there was a ledge there. The thickness of the shadow is not too much therefore the ledge height may not be much and it seems to rise as it approaches the mountain side going by the shadow.

[Cyrano]

Possible. NaMo's frequent interactions with Xi and other world leaders have made Xi realise that he is a formidable leader and will revitalise India and springboard India as an Asian power snapping at China's lead. Thats intolerable for Xi and the current standoff is his way of dealing with Modi and a resurgent India.

Even if nothing is lost or gained, just think about the cost of 6 months of intense mobilisation on the Indian exchequer and the amount diverted from Indian Military's modernisation funds. The huge distraction it represents by slowing down reforms and economic growth - how that would set back our economy which is 1/5th of China's economy.

And Xi can do this again next year.

Is NaMo ready to teach a lesson in the form of a decisive short sharp war damaging their armed forces morale & credibility and create a kinetic deterrent ? We'll have to see.

[AdityaM]

What is the blackish path on the bottom right, just under the black arrow which read chinese defensive positions.
this path meets the right angled bend of the river

[Larry Walker]

There is a complete radio silence from the front where real action is taking place - Leh/Ladakh and Depsang plains !! On Zee they are reporting intense airpatrols in Leh/Ladakh region. So either we are expecting PLAAF to start the war - but maybe we can also feint a surprise attack on Chinese under garb of air-patrols

[Larry Walker]

Possible. NaMo's frequent interactions with Xi and other world leaders have made Xi realise that he is a formidable leader and will revitalise India and springboard India as an Asian power snapping at China's lead. Thats intolerable for Xi and the current standoff is his way of dealing with Modi and a resurgent India.

Even if nothing is lost or gained, just think about the cost of 6 months of intense mobilisation on the Indian exchequer and the amount diverted from Indian Military's modernisation funds. The huge distraction it represents by slowing down reforms and economic growth - how that would set back our economy which is 1/5th of China's economy.

And Xi can do this again next year.

Is NaMo ready to teach a lesson in the form of a decisive short sharp war damaging their armed forces morale & credibility and create a kinetic deterrent ? We'll have to see.

If that is indeed the case and Xi wants to teach a lesson to Modi and India's forces then there would be some rationale and some caution in planning this. I don't think Chink would plan with the assumption that India will fold back so easily just because they put the India centric elements on the border because if we so openly know Indian orbat that is tasked to face China - the Chinese also know that and much more. They would have gamed what elements would be deployed and roughly in what areas. So if this is just a Chinese bluff then India has called it's bluff sometime ago and now there is no point in building up further and creating an embarrassment into a disaster for them.

[pankajs]

Show me another Chinese camp as hapzard as this one or even close. And they have very neat tents & camps just back of this jumble!!! There is hardly any straight lines here which is very unlike Chinese camps.

Why are the Chinese acting so differently in just 100 meter?

https://twitter.com/detresfa_/status/12 ... 7520841728

Here is a contrast enhanced zoom in to help further examine the area, offered without comments

[chola]

Show me another Chinese camp as hapzard as this one or even close. And they have very neat tents & camps just back of this jumble!!! Why are the Chinese acting so differently in just 100 meter?

https://twitter.com/detresfa_/status/12 ... 7520841728

Here is a contrast enhanced zoom in to help further examine the area, offered without comments

Looks more like Mumbai than Shanghai!

[ks_sachin]

There is a complete radio silence from the front where real action is taking place - Leh/Ladakh and Depsang plains !! On Zee they are reporting intense airpatrols in Leh/Ladakh region. So either we are expecting PLAAF to start the war - but maybe we can also feint a surprise attack on Chinese under garb of air-patrols

What do you mean radio silence?

[nishant.gupta]

Show me another Chinese camp as hapzard as this one or even close. And they have very neat tents & camps just back of this jumble!!! There is hardly any straight lines here which is very unlike Chinese camps.

Why are the Chinese acting so differently in just 100 meter?

Could be because of two reasons:
1. The ground is not flat enough to have a straight line campsite.
2. The intention is not to hold it for long and hence no point in trying to break rocks and level the field.

If the second is true, it either means that they have come with intention to go back and are just saber rattling or (a more dangerous option) they are expecting India to open fire due to events elsewhere along the border and they are only setting up this defensive position to try and prevent them from crossing LAC.

[Larry Walker]

I meant in terms of noise and orgasmic studio discussions and satlite maps being thrown around like selfies - not in military terms.

[pankajs]

However there is a possibility.

I have seen this kind of jumble in "untouched" Tibetean villages while searching for routes and paths all over the Tibetain plateau.

Have the Chinese brought in Tibetean villagers to populate the triangular ledge and create a facade of populated area or create a shield of civilians at that point?

[idan]

What is the blackish path on the bottom right, just under the black arrow which read chinese defensive positions.
this path meets the right angled bend of the river

Chinese are good in civil engineering it seems. They have created embankments along the river with easy access to water for the camps.

[ks_sachin]

I have no military background, but I think that numerical superiority that attacking force requires to target am enemy sitting on the leak is precisely because the enemy sitting on the peak has view of all approach axis and can reorient their fire towards the axis of advance - so to overwhelm you got to approach from all axis and hence 10:1 or whatever the ratio. Galwan valley slopes are very steep - which means that IA cannot fight moving from position to position as movement on the slopes and across ridge lines is almost impossible under fire. Secondly, the Chinese attempting to hit DSDBO road will not try to climb the slope and directly attack the India positions on the top - their intent is to rush to the Shyok confluence. In this scenario - few or handful of fixed defences much higher than the valley floor will not have much effect in stopping them, and if the defensive positions are lower and nearer to valley floor, then they are as much lin-of-sight to Chinese as to Chinese are to them. And this is where their 105mm T-15 will come in as Infantry support.

Till the Galwan Valley bit absolutely correct.

After that you need to think.

Here is something to chew on. Would you use tank in a valley? What does the defender need to do to stop the advance?
Also as a defender what threat will you face knowing that you will be targeted before any offensive through a constricted channel.