https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 1165053961
Xi Jinping has appointed CMC 2nd Vice Chairman Zhang Youxia as impose direct CMC control over PLA activities along LAC. Zhang used to be a commander of 13th Grp Army of PLA Western Thtr Cmnd.
Xi Jinping has appointed CMC 2nd Vice Chairman Zhang Youxia as impose direct CMC control over PLA activities along LAC. Zhang used to be a commander of 13th Grp Army of PLA Western Thtr Cmnd.
Rohit too seems to either suggest or recommend the same.pankajs wrote:Just re-read Nitin's post
https://twitter.com/nitingokhale/status ... 8170557441If this is not a type, looks like we are multiple points on the F4 ridge. Good.Since then India has strengthened defences not just on South Bank of Pangong Tso but also on the North Bank. Indian troops now occupy highest points at Finger 4, stationing themselves above the Chinese presence on the lower heights of the ridge line.
May be we have gone on to dominate the other figures too using the common spine but this is speculation.
Also gels with my suggestion in an earlier post that we need to sit at the top of two valleys on the Chinese side that allows for easy access to the root of the fingers to prevent outflanking, one starting at the Sirijap and the other not the north aligned east to west. Just check the path drawn on the ridge in RED.- With IA taking higher point on F4 ridge, Chinese have been served a lesson in mountain warfare.
- Be ready to control the highest point or someone else will, and piss on your posts.
- IA has now literally outflanked the entire Chinese presence between F4-F8.
New Delhi: The Indian Army has reportedly occupied heights on the north bank of Pangong Tso which overlook Chinese positions on the ridge lines in the Finger 4 area. This means that the Indian Army now has a tactical advantage on both the north and south banks of the Pangong Tso.
Mountain warfare is all about dominating the heights, and since they have come under the Indian Army’s control, there are reports that China has started building up its forces on the north bank of the Pangong Tso and is trying to come closer to the Indian position at Finger 4.
What has added to the tension is the fact that now all the action in the Pangong Tso area is being controlled directly by commanders in Beijing and it’s no longer in the hands of local PLA officers.
To put pressure on India, China had also brought forward its 15-20 tanks near Spanggur Gap, a mountain pass on the LAC, between China and India. India too has deployed its battle tanks.
In its Moldo garrison, China has now deployed 5,000-7,000 soldiers and India has a similar number in the area.
Chinese troops, once again, tried to intrude into Indian territory on September 8, amid border tensions between Indian and Chinese troops at Line of Actual Control (LAC) in Ladakh.
Two motorboats on the western shore of Pangong Lake were used by the Chinese troops to intrude into Indian territory, but their efforts were unsuccessful as Indian troops were already stationed there.
According to sources, Chinese soldiers tried to move past Finger 4 in Eastern Ladakh on two motorboats on Tuesday at around 5 pm. There were about 40 Chinese soldiers in these boats. Notably, Finger 4 has been occupied by Chinese troops since May.Upon noticing the movement of Chinese soldiers, Indian troops stationed at surveillance post in Finger 3, immediately raised the alarm
According to intelligence with Indian officials, China has amassed about 50,000 troops, surface-to-air missiles, a large section of rocket forces and close to 150 fighter aircraft within striking distance of LAC, the largest buildup of troops in the region.
The buildup has enhanced steadily since early May, when China redeployed troops participating in an exercise in Tibet towards LAC. India has still not been able to figure the motive and timing of the move. There is an assessment that the PLA troops are not controlled by local military commanders but directly from Beijing. It is learnt that in the new conflict zone along the southern bank of Pangong Tso, Chinese troops have been trying to test Indian positions daily, apparently on the direct instructions from Beijing.
Only fella with any war experience: Sino-Vietnam warpankajs wrote:RUMINT seems to suggest that CMC has taken direct control of the LAC.
https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 1165053961Xi Jinping has appointed CMC 2nd Vice Chairman Zhang Youxia as impose direct CMC control over PLA activities along LAC. Zhang used to be a commander of 13th Grp Army of PLA Western Thtr Cmnd.
He is 70 years old. Do the generals of PLA really serve that long or that he is exception?Anujan wrote:Only fella with any war experience: Sino-Vietnam warpankajs wrote:RUMINT seems to suggest that CMC has taken direct control of the LAC.
https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 1165053961
Oh Yes! He did. He said that the word of commisar is ultimate and has to be obeyed in entirety or the consequence can be severe. He related an anecdote, where our patrolling party encountered a Chinese officr who wanted us to let him go to a particular point , put something that he was carrying, take a photo and go back. When our party did not allow that, he was in tears saying that he just needs a photo to show back. When we still did not allow, he put the thing down on that spot itself, clicked a photograph and vanished . Lt.Gen Pannu said that this system is what makes them more like Robots and it is almost imposssible to reason with them because they are kind of programmed to do a thing and face genuine confusion when things take a different turn.arshyam wrote:I'll try to catch up on this today, but did he mention anything about their commissar system? These are CCP hacks in uniform that are deployed with every unit to ensure the troops stick to the party line, and apparently have the same/greater authority than the unit commander himself. I can imagine a lot of mistakes being made by these chaps given they have the authority but little/no military training.Denis wrote:Those were the views of Lt Gen Pannu, not mine. He also related a few anecdotes on this as well..
As I had reported on Sept 2, Indian forces have taken dominant positions in Finger 4 on Pangong’s north bank. Quick thread follows on the latest situation.
- Indian Army's distinct shift in stance from reactive to preemptive has provided substantial Quid-Pro-Quo element.
- Skirmish still very real possibility given proximity of forces, but short/localised if at all.
- Height dominance game has majorly changed since Aug 29.
Have we done some "special ops" in the Dumchule/Demchok area? This is in keeping with action around LAC wonlee theme.
- Aug 29 preemptive actions not just on Pangong south bank & Rechin/Rezang La, but further south along LAC too.
- Escalation possible anywhere, esp. PTSO, Depsang
- Expect Chinese psy-ops 'tsunami' including photos/videos of 'captives' from early May scuffle at Pangong.
If true, and that is a big IF, then it shows deep frustration. Xi gambled very heavily and lost. He has to recover his face or else opposition to his governance would grow. One top-level Chinese analyst in an international webinar said that the Chinese were comparing the honor extended to the Indian martyrs at Galwan with the total clampdown in China and how they have to get news from Indian media.pankajs wrote:RUMINT seems to suggest that CMC has taken direct control of the LAC.
https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 1165053961Xi Jinping has appointed CMC 2nd Vice Chairman Zhang Youxia as impose direct CMC control over PLA activities along LAC. Zhang used to be a commander of 13th Grp Army of PLA Western Thtr Cmnd.
He is speaking about the induction of Rafale amidst a standoffDilbu wrote:Which incident is he referring to?
The first set of high resolution satellite imagery since the preemptive operation by the Indian Army at the southern bank of Pangong Lake, show an extremely fluid situation at the Line of Actual Control (LAC). The latest imagery accessed by India Today suggests that the Chinese claims of Indian Army crossing the LAC may not be true at all.
While there are no visible signs of occupation of the peak of Helmet top mountain by either forces, images show presence of a cluster of Chinese military vehicles and camouflaged tents at the bottom of the mountain. The tracks to the empty Helmet top are seen leading from the Chinese side.
On the north bank of the lake, the Chinese army seems to have vacated some of the ridgeline positions at finger four. New images show that the spots seen occupied by the People's Liberation Army (PLA) in earlier images are now vacant. As earlier reported by India Today, the PLA has vacated the shores of finger four areas but continue to build additional infrastructure between finger five and finger eight.
The distance between new Chinese position and finger four flash point is almost 1.7 km. The Chinese build up on the shores of finger five include a mix of more than 20 armour protected vehicles and heavy military vehicles. Additional Chinese tents and camouflaged material can also be seen on the shores of finger five. The Chinese build up also indicates that the PLA could be preparing for a long haul in this area.
Why can't he say that in a better way. Made me dhoti-shiber for a second worrying about some unfortunate incident involving IAF at the LAC.williams wrote:He is speaking about the induction of Rafale amidst a standoffDilbu wrote:Which incident is he referring to?
Don't think so. He is saying "Recent Action near LAC" The induction of Rafale is not an action near LAC. Also he is mentioning a recent unfortunate incident, and not the prevailing circumstances.williams wrote:He is speaking about the induction of Rafale amidst a standoffDilbu wrote:Which incident is he referring to?
You don't sound like a warmonger, you sound like a hawk/hardliner, and there's nothing wrong with that. I am a hardliner myself, and we hardliners have nothing to apologize for.chola wrote: Whoa! We have finally made them go kinetic? Against the IA who commands higher ground where the defender has 4 to 1 advantage? And against a IAF with more and closer bases whose planes can carry full load unlike their few from the rarified air of the plateau?
... I hate to sound like a warmonger but ...
Agreed, that's why it is my favourite go-to channel for news on this topic.Denis wrote: NewsX is the only channel that has Ladakh as focus and has some serious panelists like former diplomats and generals, people like Mr Ranade. It has a jingoist tone but the discussions are of the same calibre as we are having here on BRF.
I saw the tweet it is what he said during the induction ceremony.Denis wrote:Don't think so. He is saying "Recent Action near LAC" The induction of Rafale is not an action near LAC. Also he is mentioning a recent unfortunate incident, and not the prevailing circumstances.williams wrote: He is speaking about the induction of Rafale amidst a standoff
Sir, Gen Panag (retd) is politically biased. So he has grudgingly appreciated IA action while raising concerns which may not be realistic. I feel sad when even retired armed forces officers don't distinguish between praising armed forces & praising govt which they may not like. It's the same reason why other political commentators post anti-India comments because they are anti-govt( rape capital/women&children not safe etc). If they can't distinguish between govt in power and the country, it shows their intellectual capability.Hari Nair wrote:There is an article in the Rag - The Print - worth a glance mainly for the fairly detailed map it provides.
https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/newsindi ... tp#image=1
The map provides a good perspective of our dominance in the Chushul - Spanggur Gap area. Also lets us know the pictorially the reason for agitation of the Great Hans Army, now that we are literally raining on their parade in the lower valley.
The article is perhaps worth a skim read
- That village idiot editor Coupta wants to preach to the choir - "Big countries go to war with each other when they have a big strategic objective. They don’t do it to settle scores over something that happened 58 years ago".
So for Coupta, its just something that just "happened in the past".
Gen Panag appears to be rather amiss in his reading of history. He comments that China will try and do what they had done in 1962, which is take these heights one by one and clear Indian forces out of there.
I am actually amazed that this general officer who once commanded the area (Northern Command) does not know the basics of what happened there during the Battle of RezangLa.
Firstly - the heights being currently held by us were never held in '62.
Secondly - the 13 Kumaon (C Coy) that is just about one company strength were deployed in penny packets at far lower positions, which were overrun by perhaps a brigade strength of Chinese.
Thirdly - Our posts today are manned by far higher and appropriate numbers.
Fourthly - The heights being manned today - its definitely not going to be possible for the Chinese to "take these heights one-by-one" as if they were strolling in a garden picking cherries.
I am continuously amazed by Gen Panag's statements that appear to border on the other side of senility.
It fits in nicely with their Sunshoo philosophy of winning without fighting. But it actually served the purpose of keeping the borders relatively inactive for a long time.la.khan wrote:Something that has been nagging me for the last few weeks/months, since this sh*t started in Galwan valley.
The Chinese are famous for breaking verbal/written agreements, as & when they please. This is the experience of not just GoI/IA, but also others in the international community. PRC has a very poor reputation when it comes to agreements. Most of the time, the other party take it on the chin, smile/grin and move on.
So, what is it about the agreement between the IA & PLA about "no shots fired on the border in the last few years/decades" that holds? Why doesn't PRC/PLA violate this agreement too? Why does this agreement alone have sanctity over any other accord/agreement PRC/PLA signed (not just with us but other accords with others)? What gives?!?
It goes far deeper than that. Its part of their historical salami slicing tactics they have used even against the Soviets in the '50s. If you look up some historical records of that conflict - the Great Hans used similar barbarian weapons - the Soviets then resorted to using some sort of sharp modified pitch-forks with long handles to prod these "warriors" and keep them a 'pitch-fork' length away. There are old black & white pics of Soviet troops armed with these modified tools.rajpa wrote:It fits in nicely with their Sunshoo philosophy of winning without fighting. But it actually served the purpose of keeping the borders relatively inactive for a long time.la.khan wrote:Something that has been nagging me for the last few weeks/months, since this sh*t started in Galwan valley. ...The Chinese are famous for breaking verbal/written agreements, as & when they please. ...., what is it about the agreement between the IA & PLA about "no shots fired on the border in the last few years/decades" that holds? Why doesn't PRC/PLA violate this agreement too?... What gives?!?
Finger 3? and someone is claiming we have reached over finger 4?1500-2000 PLA soldiers with their artillery guns have perched themselves on ridges of finger3. India has also matched numbers in terms of troop deployment. Only 300 m aerial distance seperates the 2 sides. Situation tensed but commander level talks hv prevented escalation:sources
Exactly, Hari Nair. They ambushed and massacred several Soviet soldiers. Of course, the Soviets retaliated later and wiped out the Chinese soldiers. This led to the Ussuri river clash. The Galwan tactic was very similar. But, the Soviet forces were thin in the far East and they saw no strategic significance to holding on to a few islands in the river etc. and eventually settled the issue with the Hans.Hari Nair wrote:It goes far deeper than that. Its part of their historical salami slicing tactics they have used even against the Soviets in the '50s. If you look up some historical records of that conflict - the Great Hans used similar barbarian weapons - the Soviets then resorted to using some sort of sharp modified pitch-forks with long handles to prod these "warriors" and keep them a 'pitch-fork' length away. There are old black & white pics of Soviet troops armed with these modified tools.rajpa wrote: It fits in nicely with their Sunshoo philosophy of winning without fighting. But it actually served the purpose of keeping the borders relatively inactive for a long time.
Notwithstanding all that - they did suddenly resort to ambush with small-arms and killed some Soviets IIRC, in an incident in the '50s
Sirs, would he be referring to Medical evacuation? The terms unfortunate incident are used, instead of action some such term.sooraj wrote:Press Trust of India
@PTI_News
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I compliment IAF for swift action near LAC during recent unfortunate incident: Defence Minister Rajnath Singh
Salami slicing itself is a Sunshoo diabolical tactic of winning without fighting.Hari Nair wrote:It goes far deeper than that. Its part of their historical salami slicing tactics they have used even against the Soviets in the '50s. If you look up some historical records of that conflict - the Great Hans used similar barbarian weapons - the Soviets then resorted to using some sort of sharp modified pitch-forks with long handles to prod these "warriors" and keep them a 'pitch-fork' length away. There are old black & white pics of Soviet troops armed with these modified tools.rajpa wrote:
It fits in nicely with their Sunshoo philosophy of winning without fighting. But it actually served the purpose of keeping the borders relatively inactive for a long time.
Notwithstanding all that - they did suddenly resort to ambush with small-arms and killed some Soviets IIRC, in an incident in the '50s
Completely agree.nam wrote:This is the crucial point we need to keep in mind. Chinis will carry out another ambush in some form. They are hardly 200-300 mtrs from some of our positions. We should not be stupid enough to limit our response to small arms or localized artillery.
We got to give back an overwhelming response. Even if in the local area, IAF should pound the PLA positions, coupled with artillery & mbrl response.
Our habit of proportional response is why Pak & Chinis keep poking us.