dkhare wrote:On the Agni 1 Prime, does anyone see fins or spikes for a maneuverable reentry vehicle?
Guessing: Mk2 and SFDR.dkhare wrote: Great news on the Ku band AESA seeker for the Astra! Mk1 or Mk2?
dkhare wrote:On the Agni 1 Prime, does anyone see fins or spikes for a maneuverable reentry vehicle?
Guessing: Mk2 and SFDR.dkhare wrote: Great news on the Ku band AESA seeker for the Astra! Mk1 or Mk2?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Twenty-five Enhanced Pinaka Rockets were launched in quick succession against targets at different ranges. All the mission objectives were met during the launches. The enhanced range version of Pinaka Rocket System can destroy targets at distances up to 45 kms.
All the flight articles were tracked by Range instruments including Telemetry, Radar and Electro Optical Tracking System deployed by ITR & Proof and Experimental Establishment (PXE).
The rocket system has been developed jointly by Pune based Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE) and High Energy Materials Research Laboratory (HEMRL) with manufacturing support from M/s Economic Explosives Limited, Nagpur. The development of Enhanced Pinaka system was taken up to achieve longer range performance.
Four enhanced range version of 122mm rockets were test fired with full instrumentation and they met the complete mission objectives. These rockets have been developed for Army applications and can destroy targets up to 40 km.
All the flight articles were tracked by Range instruments, including Telemetry, Radar and Electro Optical Tracking System deployed by ITR and Proof and Experimental Establishment (PXE).
The rocket systems have been developed jointly by Pune-based Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE) and High Energy Materials Research Laboratory (HEMRL) with manufacturing support from M/s Economic Explosives Limited, Nagpur. This enhanced rocket system would replace the existing 122mm Grad rockets.
------------------------------------------------------------Agni P is a new generation advanced variant of Agni class of missiles. It is a canisterised missile with range capability between 1,000 and 2,000 kms.
Indranil: in the pics I've seen so far, I can't make out the fins. If you look at Agni-2 pictures, the fins are prominentIndranil wrote:The fins are visible in the picture above.
Agni-2 has a blunt nose RV, it creates a wider shockwave. Hence, A2 needs bigger fins for trimming. In A-P they are for a different purpose - maneuvering.Prem Kumar wrote:Indranil: in the pics I've seen so far, I can't make out the fins. If you look at Agni-2 pictures, the fins are prominentIndranil wrote:The fins are visible in the picture above.
If you look closely at the end of the cone, magically fins will show upPrem Kumar wrote:Indranil: in the pics I've seen so far, I can't make out the fins.Indranil wrote:The fins are visible in the picture above.
The new enhanced pinaka rockets perhaps are made from composites. Most probably the propellant has also changed to a NEPE based propellant.Prem Kumar wrote:If we've mastered composites to a substantial degree, is it worth trying to manufacture the Pinaka series rockets using composites? Lesser weight, more compact rockets, increased range or a bigger warhead
Not sure about the cost & ease of manufacturing (though both get better with mass production)
Expand the pic. It will be clear to you.Prem Kumar wrote:Indranil: in the pics I've seen so far, I can't make out the fins. If you look at Agni-2 pictures, the fins are prominentIndranil wrote:The fins are visible in the picture above.
Great questions CM, as your namesake the CM is a great mix of what seems simple enough - but is in fact a great balance of aerodynamics, power, fuel burn etc...etc...Cain Marko wrote: All of this raises certain questions:
1. What happens to CM speed if it has to fly super low altitude? I'm assuming ranges and speeds are given at optimum altitudes but am not sure. In general speed and range degrade at lower altitudes?
2. What is the terrain like between India and major Chinese installations, say kashghar? Hotan? over the tibetan plateau, there should be plenty of unrestricted LOS for ADS to get into action? AFter all, ship-based systems are designed to tackle low fliers at low ranges (35-40km), right?
3. How extensive are Chinese ISR assets? Seems to me they are loaded with sats, UAVs, AEW, you name it. And layered ADS. HVA will be protected. They just moved an S400 to Tibet recently.
All in all, it seems to me that closer to the border, say within 500km, the Brahmos remains India's best shot at least initially to get a breakthrough. Nirbhay's greatest damage will probably be in Central theater, and possibly eastern although at that point, you are looking at extreme ranges. Perhaps enemy forward formations might be another target instead of using air assets or bmos types - but with these, mobility could be an issue?.
This is not to say that India could do without ITCM/Nirbhay - no, it is an absolute must, and a great addition to the quiver. I'm just thinking about where and how these might be used. It doesn't help that most of US "shekinaw" stuff has been used against decrepit ME states with little to no AD assets. India doesn't have that luxury.
How can you be so cruel to our Military procurement people and MOD officials? By giving such suggestions you are depriving them of a 1000 sq metre bungalow in Gurgaon and a farmhouse in Bijwasan. How will they afford the membership of their local golf club? And don't you want them to enjoy their vacations in Switzerland? How cold and callous of you. What has the world come to?Pratyush wrote:I was looking at the specifications for the Israeli sea breaker missile. The more I looked at it. The more I realised that India already has all the building blocks for such a weapon. The flight control system for both SAAW, and ITCM. the seeker head from SAAW. All that is required is a very small gas turbine for a vehicle of this class. Manik might be too large.
Such a vehicle concept will also be quite handy in terms of dealing with S400 type system as it can also be used as a low cost air / ground launched decoy.
Low self esteem of Indians is responsible for complicating the issue. Our mil procurement guys like to take commissions from white people. Taking commissions from brown people is beneath their dignity.Pratyush wrote:Sticking with an Indian supplier can also permit what you have listed above.
So it is quite neutral.
Relax. The post was made in jest. The context was mil people's love of imports. No need to take everything so seriously.Aditya_V wrote:It has got nothing to do with brown people low self esteem etc, commissions from foreign companies are settled abroad, usually to children/ relatives based abroad in US/ Dubai / Singapore. Making it out of reach for it to traced within India.
Anyways why is talk in the Indian Missile thread, every thread is being run down with negativity since pet projects or way things in the world dont work to a certain wishes of a certain people.
darshhan, you have been skating on very thin ice. Take it as a warning from Admin. And, do not reply to this, for that will only complicate matters more for you.darshhan wrote:Low self esteem of Indians is responsible for complicating the issue. Our mil procurement guys like to take commissions from white people. Taking commissions from brown people is beneath their dignity.
Although its impact on the future battlefield will be decided by its manufacturing rate. That is if it is ordered by Army/AF for conventional roles.ramana wrote:I think the Agni Prime wide range is an indicator of its mission and capability.
In conventional role will it not overlap with Brahmos ER.ramana wrote:Purely conventional role for Shourya.
We do not have unlimited numbers for Brahmos ER, and different targets will require different methods. and unfortunately we have more targets than weapons.Pratyush wrote:In conventional role will it not overlap with Brahmos ER.ramana wrote:Purely conventional role for Shourya.
Or the difference in payload weight will remove the overlap.
There was an emergency induction authorization for Shaurya by Modi sarkar in Oct 2020. But we don't know of any firm orders & knowing our glacial pace, its open to question if any actual inductions have happened.ramana wrote:Purely conventional role for Shourya.
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... NFQuO.htmljamwal wrote:When did nod for Shaurya happen? Any details?
By Brahmos ER, are you referring to the ER range 900km missile? Or are you referring to some next gen hypersonic variant? In either case, the Shaurya is quite different:Pratyush wrote:In conventional role will it not overlap with Brahmos ER.ramana wrote:Purely conventional role for Shourya.
Or the difference in payload weight will remove the overlap.
The RM mentions only deterrence capabilities. no mention of "strategic".“The Agni-P missile would further strengthen India’s credible deterrence capabilities,” Singh said
I like it. Thank you Nikhilji, learnt a few things.Nikhil_Naya wrote:Great questions CM, as your namesake the CM is a great mix of what seems simple enough - but is in fact a great balance of aerodynamics, power, fuel burn etc...etc...Cain Marko wrote: All of this raises certain questions:
1. What happens to CM speed if it has to fly super low altitude? I'm assuming ranges and speeds are given at optimum altitudes but am not sure. In general speed and range degrade at lower altitudes?
2. What is the terrain like between India and major Chinese installations, say kashghar? Hotan? over the tibetan plateau, there should be plenty of unrestricted LOS for ADS to get into action? AFter all, ship-based systems are designed to tackle low fliers at low ranges (35-40km), right?
3. How extensive are Chinese ISR assets? Seems to me they are loaded with sats, UAVs, AEW, you name it. And layered ADS. HVA will be protected. They just moved an S400 to Tibet recently.
All in all, it seems to me that closer to the border, say within 500km, the Brahmos remains India's best shot at least initially to get a breakthrough. Nirbhay's greatest damage will probably be in Central theater, and possibly eastern although at that point, you are looking at extreme ranges. Perhaps enemy forward formations might be another target instead of using air assets or bmos types - but with these, mobility could be an issue?.
This is not to say that India could do without ITCM/Nirbhay - no, it is an absolute must, and a great addition to the quiver. I'm just thinking about where and how these might be used. It doesn't help that most of US "shekinaw" stuff has been used against decrepit ME states with little to no AD assets. India doesn't have that luxury.
1 - Most CM's are designed to fly at low altitudes. If you observe most use a simple planform to generate the highest possible lift with least drag. Most CM's rarely will fly a 'hi-hi-hi' profile of attack as that would defeat the whole purpose of having a naturally stealthy attack profile.
2 - Yes, most ADS systems will have a good LOS over longer distances than they would otherwise have in the plateau region (Hotan/ Kashghar). However if you map the distance from Kashghar prefecture to Leh - its about 600 kms as the bird flies - leaving 400 kms of 'manouvering space'. If you see Kashghar, you will see that there are mountains towards the border - allowing the natural hiding space - heck, we could even have a CM come in from the 'wrong' direction!
Shipborne radar have an advantage of little or no obstacles allowing for longer range - however for low flying aircraft all radars will have the issue with the horizon due to curvature. Land based radars will have other obstacles to contend (large boulders, trees, etc) will add to radar clutter. Even the flattest of surfaces have enough obstacles.
3 - Yes the Chinese have a huge range of assets. However, thats where other systems come into play.
The lead strike will probably be a mix of SEAD/ DEAD ( Rudram+ Brahmos) punching a hole in the wall then LRCM's (ITCM's) take over the attack (salvos/ saturation attacks) and then use waypoint navigation to targets like transport nodes, dams (I am working on a map of some targets within the 500-2000 km range - just for kicks)
IMHO Submarine launched Ballistic missile has strategic role onlee hence SFC has B05 (Shourya is called B05 in this configuration) . All other use of Shourya varients purely conventional role onree.Prem Kumar wrote:There was an emergency induction authorization for Shaurya by Modi sarkar in Oct 2020. But we don't know of any firm orders & knowing our glacial pace, its open to question if any actual inductions have happened.ramana wrote:Purely conventional role for Shourya.
Moreover, the October authorization put Shaurya under the SFC, which makes one wonder if its a conventional strike missile. An induction under SFC for a strategic role would also square with the lack of information on the # of systems ordered, if any.
IMO, we have a "doctrinal blindspot", which I had referred to in one of my posts: we don't have a conventional BM doctrine that's under the Army Artillery's command, be it Shourya or Prithvi or any of the Pra-series missiles.
Total order book at ₹8,683 cr
Bharat Dynamics Limited has signed a contract worth ₹499 crore with the Ministry of Defence to manufacture and supply Akash missiles to the Indian Air Force.
“BDL has already received export leads from some countries expressing interest in procuring the missile. The company has a well-established infrastructure and expertise to execute these orders and meet the customer delivery schedule,” h