Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Anant · Post by **Anant** » 24 Feb 2022 23:17

m_saini wrote:
Anant wrote:And we'll just sit here and eat their warheads. Tots.

..We had our own idiot in Bush backed by his puppet masters..

...We, in the United States, are totally powerless....
Sirji, just so my dumb*ss understands it, could you clarify what you mean by "we" in these posts?

Indian-Americans or ..?

Indian Americans

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 24 Feb 2022 23:17

Conflicting report about USAF going to DEFCON 3. I haven’t heard anything yet. Maybe brar_w can chime in.

Nothing from Barksdale or Whiteman yet.

Anant · Post by **Anant** » 24 Feb 2022 23:18

kvraghav wrote:
Anant wrote: And we'll just sit here and eat their warheads. Tots.
You fire back 100. They dont care. Russia has no quality of life and US had pushed them further. You people should have left russia be rather than poking missile in their underside. You ppl in the US have lot to loose than Russia if nukes are hurled at each other. You cant kill a man already dead.

That maybe so but if the US is going to be turned into a wasteland, I can assure all you comrade lovers, every inch of the Russian federation will be too. Book it.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 24 Feb 2022 23:18

Can anybody tell me how can Putin get a victory here, he has now lost friends in Europe, put the Russian economy under bus. And if this conflict is long drawn loss of reputation . It does not look for Russia.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 24 Feb 2022 23:19

Baikul wrote: I don’t have a preferred side in this fight but these are early days to say who’s beaten back.

If you have any doubts about choosing a side between Russia and Ukraine, let me tell you that Ukraine opposed nuclear test during Atal ji time & most importantly Libtards/IsIam!sts are supporting Ukraine..

https://twitter.com/MrSinha_/status/149 ... yfr7g&s=19

kvraghav · Post by **kvraghav** » 24 Feb 2022 23:20

Anant wrote:
kvraghav wrote: You fire back 100. They dont care. Russia has no quality of life and US had pushed them further. You people should have left russia be rather than poking missile in their underside. You ppl in the US have lot to loose than Russia if nukes are hurled at each other. You cant kill a man already dead.
That maybe so but if the US is going to be turned into a wasteland, I can assure all you comrade lovers, every inch of the Russian federation will be too. Book it.

I shall book it but since you name called, shouldn't you green card slaves also worry about getting bombed into extinction from your cushy lives rather than a Russian who is already in hell hole? After all you ran away to the country of milk and honey to escape hell and might end up in one after all. I dont like the US simply because they sanctioned during Kargill making our sea kings inoperable which could have been used to save many of our men.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 24 Feb 2022 23:21

The US will wipeout Russian strategic forces in one fell swoop. If needed.

srikandan · Post by **srikandan** » 24 Feb 2022 23:21

CNN has reported on it but can’t get the video on that here is one from Reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/ ... near_kyiv/

CNN probably has a good reason to not add footage because they do not have any -- entire american MSM is down on the ground in Ukraine.

That photo/video is not timestamped and even if that is Ukraine, it could be from the 2014 conflict in some other part of Ukraine.

kvraghav · Post by **kvraghav** » 24 Feb 2022 23:23

Mort Walker wrote:The US will wipeout Russian strategic forces in one fell swoop. If needed.

They would have done that long time back, if they could. Thats the problem with ballistic missiles. You never know if you will hit or miss them.

srikandan · Post by **srikandan** » 24 Feb 2022 23:25

Does Putin need friends in Europe when they need Russia's oil? USA has explicitly stated that there will be no sanctions on Russian Gas

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy ... 022-02-23/

EU seems to have pushed the US to not do this, contingent on a Qatari replacement for NordStream2 that the US was selling to the EU last week.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 24 Feb 2022 23:27

My view was that the average Ukrainian soldier will not risk his life to liberate the Crimea or Donetsk/Luhansk. Looks like they aren't doing much to defend the Ukrainian parts of their country either. I think they have a sense (even if their leadership does not) that their elites have fled the country and their leadership has been suckered into war with their fellow Slavs, by the West. That attitude may only change if there are civilian casualties, or large casualties among the Ukie military.
I have no doubt that the average Russian (even a civilian) is quite prepared to give their life defending their motherland. As a previous poster said, its not about the number of troops or firepower, but the will to fight.

Ukraine has 100 modern fighter aircraft and 2000 tanks. Did none of the aircraft engage the Russians ? The axis of advance for Russian mechanized forces are fairly well known. There were more than enough tanks (backed up by artillery and IFV's) for the Ukies to put up serious resistance at every point the Russians crossed the border. Take Crimea for e.g. There are 2 narrow causeways linking Crimea with mainland Ukraine. A small force could have bottled up the Russian forces advancing out Crimea, for a long time. The Ukrainian brigade tasked with that job was deployed there for some time. What happened to it ?

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 24 Feb 2022 23:28

Anant wrote:
And we'll just sit here and eat their warheads. Tots.

Yes you will, your THAAD isn't capable of intercepting maneuvering MIRVs.

That's why despite much superior bigger navy you aren't able to declare war on Russia.

You only attack weak small nations like iraq when they invade Kuwait, like a coward bully you pick on small and weak. Now Putin's Russia has invaded Ukraine so come on attack Russia just like you attacked Iraq!

Show some spine!

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 24 Feb 2022 23:28

Mort Walker wrote:The US will wipeout Russian strategic forces in one fell swoop. If needed.

And they can't take on North Korea ?

Ashokk · Post by **Ashokk** » 24 Feb 2022 23:29

PM Modi Speaks To Russia's Putin; Appeals For Immediate Cessation Of Violence In Ukraine

As the situation deteriorates in Ukraine following Russia's invasion, Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Thursday spoke on the telephone with Vladimir Putin, President of the Russian Federation.

As per the press release of their call, President Putin briefed PM Modi about the recent developments regarding Ukraine. PM Modi reiterated his long-standing conviction that the differences between Russia and the NATO group can only be resolved through honest and sincere dialogue. PM Modi appealed to President Putin for an immediate cessation of violence, and called for concerted efforts from all sides to return to the path of diplomatic negotiations and dialogue.

Moreover, Prime Minister also sensitised the Russian President about India's concerns regarding the safety of the Indian citizens in Ukraine, especially students, and conveyed that India attaches the highest priority to their safe exit and return to India."The leaders agreed that their officials and diplomatic teams would continue to maintain regular contacts on issues of topical interest," as per the press release.

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 24 Feb 2022 23:30

Aditya_V wrote:Can anybody tell me how can Putin get a victory here, he has now lost friends in Europe, put the Russian economy under bus. And if this conflict is long drawn loss of reputation . It does not look for Russia.

Define “victory”. The status quo earlier was going only one way with an American puppet as an Ukranian . If not immediately, in the next 5 years Ukraine would have been in Nato, all the while threatening Crimea, Donetsk etc., ably supported by the West. In fact they could do the same thing in Crimea that the Russians did.

Putin probably felt that it was far better to rip the bandage and suffer the pain in one go, rather than later when Russia was used to Nordstream 2 income… We need to stop using Western lenses to look at a Russian problem. It may well be the case that Ukranian citizens themselves don’t want to fight as they know their elite are sold out anyway and perhaps Putin has gamed this.

srikandan · Post by **srikandan** » 24 Feb 2022 23:32

Tanaji: Putin probably felt that it was far better to rip the bandage and suffer the pain in one go, rather than later when Russia was used to Nordstream 2 income… We need to stop using Western lenses to look at a Russian problem.

well said.

Anant · Post by **Anant** » 24 Feb 2022 23:37

Manish_Sharma wrote:
Anant wrote:
And we'll just sit here and eat their warheads. Tots.
Yes you will, your THAAD isn't capable of intercepting maneuvering MIRVs.

That's why despite much superior bigger navy you aren't able to declare war on Russia.

You only attack weak small nations like iraq when they invade Kuwait, like a coward bully you pick on small and weak. Now Putin's Russia has invaded Ukraine so come on attack Russia just like you attacked Iraq!

Show some spine!

There's a reason this forum went to pot. You seriously need mental help. Good luck!

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 24 Feb 2022 23:37

kvraghav wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:The US will wipeout Russian strategic forces in one fell swoop. If needed.
They would have done that long time back, if they could. Thats the problem with ballistic missiles. You never know if you will hit or miss them.

This can be done without BM. US strategic capability is immense that can not be matched by the rest of the world combined, nor should it be underestimated. Reaction time for Russia will be on the order of minutes and their strategic forces will be eliminated. This has been planned for decades now.

As said before. DEFCON levels have not moved. So no reason to worry.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 24 Feb 2022 23:38

Mort Walker wrote:The US will wipeout Russian strategic forces in one fell swoop. If needed.

Reagan used to have nightmares of SS 18 Saturn. First thing he negotiated with gorby was they dismantled ss18 in START 1.

If america had the capability they'd have used it already.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 24 Feb 2022 23:41

Admin note: anant, kvraghav et al, if you guys want to do action figure fights between your preferred countries or their leaders, please exchange email ids and take it offline. This is not the forum for posters to work out their fantasies on behalf of other countries than India.

Informal warnings all around: keep it relevant to India and Indian POV.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 24 Feb 2022 23:44

This

Anant wrote: There's a reason this forum went to pot.

And yet you came, took a gander and jumped into the pot. If you got something to contribute on anything relevant to India, please do.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 24 Feb 2022 23:45

All this talk about Russian body-bags etc is an incorrect projection of an American-style thinking onto Russians. Unlike the U.S, the Russians don't mind taking losses. They have demonstrated this since WW2. So, even a few thousand body-bags won't cause unrest in Russia, like it would do in the U.S. Most land-locked countries think like this - India for example. We know war is dirty and there will be losses. Very few countries (if any) have the luxury of geographical isolation that the U.S has.

What Putin is trying to do is to signal the West that if you try to turn one of Russia's buffer states against Russia, there will be a regime change, military destruction, territory loss & a restoration of the status-quo-ante (which is a pro-Russian regime back in power again)

With regards to the U.S military intervention (even conventional), both sides would have war-gamed it and would've likely concluded that this will not end well for either of them. Hence the U.S will likely sit out of this one.

Added later: what Putin has done smartly here is gauge the public mood in Ukraine. Probably had a lot of FSB intel on them. They have a shared ethnicity and the Anglo-Saxon disgust of the Slavs is not lost upon them. So, its quite possible that the average Ukraine citizen is well-disposed to Russia. That's why the attacks are on purely military targets & the seat of power - but not on civilians

m_saini · Post by **m_saini** » 24 Feb 2022 23:49

Imo it serves India's interest well if US sits this one out. Makes it that much more unlikely that any US admin would sit out the fight against Chinis vis-à-vis Taiwan.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 24 Feb 2022 23:51

China is not Russia, and India is not Ukraine. But one thing is for certain.

After seeing the US & NATO's (non)-response to the invasion of Ukraine, a state that threw in its lot with the West, by its immediate neighbour... any Indian who proclaims that the QUAD is in any way a reliable entity deserves to be slapped.

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 24 Feb 2022 23:52

QUAD is not a military alliance… when push comes to shove we are on our own and everyone knows this.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 24 Feb 2022 23:55

Rudradev wrote:China is not Russia, and India is not Ukraine. But one thing is for certain.

After seeing the US & NATO's (non)-response to the invasion of Ukraine, a state that threw in its lot with the West, by its immediate neighbour... any Indian who proclaims that the QUAD is in any way a reliable entity deserves to be slapped.

Which is the exact reason why Atmanirbhar Bharat is so important. Domestic orders for strategic weapons must be given in large numbers. Be it the Arihant, Tejas, Arjun, Dhanush and Akash systems. Need thousands of units of each.

I don’t think anymore acquisitions of Russian systems should happen now. This is a golden opportunity for India.

m_saini · Post by **m_saini** » 24 Feb 2022 23:58

Atmavik wrote:… when push comes to shove we are on our own and everyone knows this.

Don't think this is true. Yes, nobody would provide support "for India", but there are quite a few countries who would love to support "against China".

Also make no mistakes, West is indeed helping Ukraine. Who would pass up a chance to finger their enemies?

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 25 Feb 2022 00:00

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 25 Feb 2022 00:01

If we want to capitalize on this opportunity, now is the time to make a move on PoK. Imran is begging, biggies are fighting, Balochis and Talibs are hammering the Pakjabi army.

If China invades Taiwan, we can make a move on Aksai Chin also.

srikandan · Post by **srikandan** » 25 Feb 2022 00:04

m_saini: Also make no mistakes, West is indeed helping Ukraine. Who would pass up a chance to finger their enemies?

Looks like the west is doing to Ukraine what it did to Pakistan, Afghanisthan, Iraq and Syria. Not sure that qualifies as "helping" Ukraine.

shravanp · Post by **shravanp** » 25 Feb 2022 00:05

Prem Kumar wrote:If we want to capitalize on this opportunity, now is the time to make a move on PoK. Imran is begging, biggies are fighting, Balochis and Talibs are hammering the Pakjabi army.

If China invades Taiwan, we can make a move on Aksai Chin also.

Nice humor (sorry). I think the topmost priority is to clean the internals of the house. Without that, any territorial ambitions will be wasted, should BIF led political parties get back in power.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 25 Feb 2022 00:08

Atmavik wrote:QUAD is not a military alliance… when push comes to shove we are on our own and everyone knows this.

Yes, there is a lot of "cute" ambiguity with the QUAD. Its members keep stating that it's "not a military alliance", but then their navies do exercises together. And, supposedly, their governments engage in some level of intelligence sharing along with their diplomatic and economic cooperation.

This is precisely the kind of guessing-game BS that the US & EU baited Ukraine into joining. No, Ukraine is not a NATO member... yes, we will "deter" Russia from attacking by imposing sanctions... no, we will not send troops to Ukraine... yes, we will provide Ukraine with weapons... no, we will not rule out making Ukraine a NATO member in future.

The Ukrainian leadership began to believe that they were in the "inner circle" of the bear-baiting club (even despite not being in NATO). They allowed themselves to become the frontline instrument of bear baiting. And now the Ukrainian people are paying the price.

I don't believe India's (current) leadership is stupid enough to be the Ukraine of the QUAD. But I am grateful that once again, the US & NATO have given us a preview of how they treat their "less than equal" allies as condoms.

m_saini · Post by **m_saini** » 25 Feb 2022 00:10

srikandan wrote:Looks like the west is doing to Ukraine what it did to Pakistan, Afghanisthan, Iraq and Syria. Not sure that qualifies as "helping" Ukraine.

Well if Ukrainians are dumb enough to fight Russians on West's behalf, then it really isn't West's fault, is it?

But you can't really say that West lit the fuse and walked away, can you? They're actively helping Ukrainians against Russians. If Ukrainians themselves are collateral in the whole mess, then I guess it just can't be helped.

srikandan · Post by **srikandan** » 25 Feb 2022 00:15

m_saini: Well if Ukrainians are dumb enough to fight Russians on West's behalf, then it really isn't West's fault, is it?

Yes and No. Incredible how the Ukrainians ruined themselves and their future within a decade, with more than a little "help" in the form of color-revolution regime changes engineered by the West. So the west did a regime change in Ukraine that lead them to this end, so that much is their fault, which is pretty significant.

But you can't really say that West lit the fuse and walked away, can you? They're actively helping Ukrainians against Russians. If Ukrainians themselves are collateral in the whole mess, then I guess it just can't be helped.

Yes, agree.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 25 Feb 2022 00:15

shravanp wrote:
Prem Kumar wrote:If we want to capitalize on this opportunity, now is the time to make a move on PoK. Imran is begging, biggies are fighting, Balochis and Talibs are hammering the Pakjabi army.

If China invades Taiwan, we can make a move on Aksai Chin also.
Nice humor (sorry). I think the topmost priority is to clean the internals of the house. Without that, any territorial ambitions will be wasted, should BIF led political parties get back in power.

Aksai Chin maybe a fantasy, but PoK isn't. We can't wait for all cleanup to be done before making moves. China didn't wait till they were ready before they went into the Korean war or got into a border dispute with Russia. A leader's role is to expand into a zone of discomfort when needed, that will then become the new normal. I think the Indian public will solidly rally behind Modi if he retakes PoK.

At the very least, this kind of what-if scenarios will drill into the heads of our populace & decision makers on why we need a strong military which is capable of offensive ops when an opportunity presents itself.

achy · Post by **achy** » 25 Feb 2022 00:17

[quote="Rudradev"]China is not Russia, and India is not Ukraine. But one thing is for certain.

After seeing the US & NATO's (non)-response to the invasion of Ukraine, a state that threw in its lot with the West, by its immediate neighbour... any Indian who proclaims that the QUAD is in any way a reliable entity deserves to be slapped.[/quote]

QUAD is not reliable entity , as so far as, fighting war on another's behalf is concerned. No one will fight for us just as we wont fight others war. We will have to fight our own war. They will fight theirs. E.g. Will India fight for Japan in case China attacks it? . QUAD as military alliance like NATO will be DOA as it will restrict strategic autonomy of everyone concerned. But it does have sound principle as so far as containment of China is concerned. There is no fundamental power aspirations among QUAD members which is at cross purposes and hence can be used as alliance to force China to behave and ultimately not emerge as sole super power. Also, it does makes sense on many other levels. This is still an emerging doctrine but I think it will settle into sphere of influence and each member taking care of own sphere and then using the co-operation of quad as deterrent for any miscalculation n China's part.

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 25 Feb 2022 00:21

Exclusive: US Expects Kyiv to Fall in Days as Ukraine Source Warns of Encirclement

Three U.S. officials have told Newsweek they expect Ukraine's capital Kyiv to fall to incoming Russian forces within days, and the country's resistance to be effectively neutralized soon thereafter.

The officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said that Moscow's focus, as revealed in Russian President Vladimir Putin's references to a "special military operation" to "demilitarize" the neighboring country, would be to encircle Ukrainian forces and force them to surrender or be destroyed. They expect Kyiv to be taken within 96 hours, and then the leadership of Ukraine to follow in about a week's time.

m_saini · Post by **m_saini** » 25 Feb 2022 00:27

srikandan wrote: So the west did a regime change in Ukraine that lead them to this end, so that much is their fault, which is pretty significant

"Fault" depends on whose perspective you see things from. West did whatever they did, to further their own interests. How can anyone fault them for that?

But yes, from a "gandhian and nehruvian" perspective, the west sure did some very "anti- vasudhaiva Kutumbakam" things.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 25 Feb 2022 00:29

If the two officially acknowledged surgical strikes on Porkis by desh nangafied the Porkis regarding their capabilities and willingness, East Europe excursions by Russia 'nangafies' NATO/West/USA regarding their political will power. They have the military capabilities, which is beyond doubt, but lack of adequate response would be telling about their appetite and political willingness.

John · Post by **John** » 25 Feb 2022 00:30

Looks like Ukrainians have retaken the airport per ministry

https://twitter.com/KyivPost/status/149 ... 8Iq3fjLxsg