Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 04 Apr 2022 22:13

Bucha killings seem to be staged to sabotage talks success and corner Russia further with white supermacists of NATO in connivance. Zelsenky parrots exactly what Biden govt states, talks aren't going to succeed or may even get cancelled with Russia being sanctioned more.
Even as of now Europe is paying over 200 million euros everyday to Russia and bank rolling the war.

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 04 Apr 2022 22:19

On the whole, life loss is regretted. Son many innocent civilians died. Does not matter who is right or who is wrong. Every Sunday we have two min MONdharan at Brussels temple. For the dead. We pray for quick end to the war. Will pray On behalf of troubled souls.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 04 Apr 2022 22:40

Few facts:
- banian elensky's recent admission on live tv that there are extreme right wing and Azov militia integrated into Ukrainian Army, and they are what they are
- huge amount of small arms distributed to civilians and thousands of prisoners let out of jail ! No sign of where those arms have gone... criminal gangs will grab all of them sooner or later
- openly goading their civilians to confront Russian troops - total lack of consideration in sending them to death by confronting professional soldiers - an AK57 or Molotov cocktail will achieve nothing but make them easy targets
- open invitation for International fighters - once again irregulars/militias mentality and getting a couple of hundred of them at least killed when Russia bombed the military base at Yavoriv
- hard evidence of Azov battalions in Mariupol committed war crimes and hate crimes on POWs and their own people
- Ukr forces deliberately used civilian areas as shields to defend themselves and Mariupol and other cities
- deliberate attempts at misinformation by Ukrainian state: false accusations of opera house, hospitals etc bombed by RA, recent staged videos of 80 dead bodies in Bucha...
- Projecting of Russian withdrawal from towns like UkrA "victories"
- mysterious sacking of 3 UkrA generals by Banian for "treason"
- not surrendering on Mariupol when it became clear weeks ago that they were surrounded and cant hold the city - thus putting its whole population at risk
- begging, demanding NATO for weapons, planes and tanks
- no account or traceability of all the MANPADS pouring into Ukraine now - many will end up on International black markets
- continuing madly knowing their soldiers and country's annihilation is certain facing a RA thats 10x or 25x more powerful - hoping for what? provoking a WW ?
- western media relaying and amplifying everything pro Ukrainian and suppressing everything that shows them in bad light
- western media reporting every day that Russia is losing tanks, APCs, aircraft, soldiers.... but 40 days later Ukrainians have made near zero gains (except areas where Russians announced and withdrew)
- western media totally mum about UkrA losses - as if Ukr soldiers and equipment magically resurrect each night !

Keep the above facts in mind, as you examine everything before accepting any western TV news report or MSM or SM stuff as true or trustworthy.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 04 Apr 2022 22:46

Victory for Hungary's Orban means a headache for the EU https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60978909

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 04 Apr 2022 22:50

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 04 Apr 2022 22:54

Cyrano wrote:Few facts:
- banian elensky's recent admission on live tv that there are extreme right wing and Azov militia integrated into Ukrainian Army, and they are what they are

Do you have a video or whatever link for this? Thanks in advance.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 05 Apr 2022 00:34

Baikul wrote:
hanumadu wrote:
Couldn't the Russians have sent more (and fresh) troops to Donbas and rotated out those in the north? If Russians have moved out of the North, it would be much easier and faster for Ukraine forces in Keiv to consolidate towards Donbas than Russians who have to go around North/North East Ukraine to reach Donbas.
...
Russo has called up 135,000 new conscripts but training them will take months.

Hence the slower redeployment of the already blooded Kyiv forces to the east. I believe this is what’s happening but it’s conjecture. For all I know the Russians may be doing what you are suggesting.

Edit - the led around use of conscripts is a bit more nuanced but my point on time versus deployment still stands

Russia has 2 million reserved forces mostly ex-conscript. If Russia has been planning this war for long, some of them would have been called up already. In fact most of the ones near Kiev would have been reserve personnel since it was a decoy. Even the equipment must have been old equipment.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 05 Apr 2022 01:19

prahaar wrote:
Cyrano wrote:Few facts:
- banian elensky's recent admission on live tv that there are extreme right wing and Azov militia integrated into Ukrainian Army, and they are what they are
Do you have a video or whatever link for this? Thanks in advance.

Fox news interview with Bret Baier 2 days ago, it's on YouTube but this part was edited out it seems. It's avl on certain telegram channels
Found it:

kit · Post by **kit** » 05 Apr 2022 01:31

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 05 Apr 2022 01:32

Big BIG skeletons under the steel factory at Mariupol... No wonder it was defended tooth and nail hoping RA will bomb it to hell with those who holed up in it. Watch for news on this from non MSM or RT In the coming days...

sohamn · Post by **sohamn** » 05 Apr 2022 01:53

Two very good analysis on why Russia lost the plot in the Ukraine war
- https://youtu.be/cMPvfbfSM9o. (Lt. Gen Ata Hasnain)
- https://youtu.be/yjSFE5anA8o (Maj. Gaurav Arya)

The summary is Russia was overconfident about their victory and didn't plan for well thought out logistics / supply chain. Soldiers suffers from low morale and momentum which is key for victory was lost after the first few weeks. No one expected, not even NATO, that Russia will get bogged down in a protracted war. This is the best case outcome for anti-Russian forces, because not only the sanctions take the wind out of their economy but the sheen of Russia being a military superpower erodes significantly with the countries dependent on Russia. Ukraine lost the war and so did Russia. And currently, there is no good outcome for both the actors.

bala · Post by **bala** » 05 Apr 2022 04:44

One clear lesson for everyone in the world: don't get caught in a tussle of the big guys, they will waste your land and your people for their objectives. At the end of the day, there is the principle of Karma of Nations and things will come right back at them in some form or the other, maybe not apparent today, but Akashic scores are being kept and tallied. The US has the burden of Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea, Bosnia/Kosovo, WW2, Japan, BD (via their munna) and many South American nations (tis a long list). Wars are by nature uncertain events, with even the best of planning. So I will wait for the final outcome.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 05 Apr 2022 07:24

Ukraine borrowed the sanctimoniousness when India asked them not to censure their nuclear tests in 1998. By piously pointing to their own abjuring of Soviet nuclear assets.

-they didn’t have a choice
-aageya swaad?

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 05 Apr 2022 07:46

bala wrote:One clear lesson for everyone in the world: don't get caught in a tussle of the big guys, they will waste your land and your people for their objectives. At the end of the day, there is the principle of Karma of Nations and things will come right back at them in some form or the other, maybe not apparent today, but Akashic scores are being kept and tallied. The US has the burden of Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea, Bosnia/Kosovo, WW2, Japan, BD (via their munna) and many South American nations (tis a long list). Wars are by nature uncertain events, with even the best of planning. So I will wait for the final outcome.

As long as they are busy in nation building somewhere , rest of the world can sleep peacefully.

Roop · Post by **Roop** » 05 Apr 2022 08:39

This Bucha massacre looks very bad for Russia. I'm not going by Western media reports, I'm going by Indian TV reports (Arnab's channel, Republic TV). These are Indian journalists reporting, and the facts are clear: dozens (maybe hundreds) of civilians have been massacred, murdered in cold blood, shot with their hands tied behind their backs, the bodies dumped in a mass grave.

This behaviour is grotesque and obscene, and it happened in a region which was under the control / occupation of Russian troops for weeks, there were no Ukranians there at all, except civilians. So the circumstantial evidence is clear (IMO it is prima fascie), this was done by undisciplined Russian troops as they prepared to withdraw / retreat from the region. I won't call it genocide (that word is ridiculously overused in the Western media), but it is at minimum a massacre and a war crime.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 05 Apr 2022 08:51

Somehow Indian channels are suddenly anti-Putin. That itself is suspicious.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 05 Apr 2022 08:53

Lavrov said there was some movement forward in negotiations with Ukraine.
"Non-nuclear, non-bloc, neutral status - it is now being recognised as absolutely necessary," he said.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 05 Apr 2022 09:00

A summary of Russia's order of battle (ORBAT) for this war, as far as I can make out:

Organisation: A Military district has 2 to 3 Combined Arms Armies. Each CAA usually has 2-3 divisions and 2 brigades of Artillery.

Southern Military district: 58th, 8th and 49th Army + 1 airborne division and 1 Naval infantry brigade.
They have been fully deployed in the Crimea and Donbass. They also have peacekeepers in Armenia.

Crimea: 58th Army: 2 Motorised Rifle divisions and parts of the airborne division.
Donetsk: 8th Army: 2 Motorised Rifle divisions (one of them attacking Mariupol along with some Naval infantry).
+ 3 Brigades equivalent of DPR Militia.
Luhansk: 49th Army: 3 Motorised Rifle brigades + 3 brigades equivalent of LPR Militia.

Western Military district: 1st Guards Tank Army, 6th Army, 20th Guards Army
East of Kiev (Sumy/Cherniv): 1st Guards Army: 2 Tank and 1 Motor rifle division
West of Kiev: 20th Guards Army: 2 Motor Rifle divisions and 1 tank brigade.
Reserve: 6th CAA: 1 Airborne division and 2 Rifle brigades.

Central Military district: 41st Army & 2nd Guards Army
Deployed in the Kharkiv/ Izyum region
41st Army: 3 Motor rifle brigades.

Central district is a weak reserve command, based in Siberia. Its only other formation, 2nd Guards was not deployed, but there are reports
that 1 of its 3 brigades has either reinforced, or has replaced 1 brigade of 41st Army.
Russia's most experienced command is the Southern Military district. All its formations have been rotated through the Donbass since 2015, apart from combat experience in the Georgia war, Syria and Crimea.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 05 Apr 2022 09:08

Roop wrote:This Bucha massacre looks very bad for Russia. I'm not going by Western media reports, I'm going by Indian TV reports (Arnab's channel, Republic TV). These are Indian journalists reporting, and the facts are clear: dozens (maybe hundreds) of civilians have been massacred, murdered in cold blood, shot with their hands tied behind their backs, the bodies dumped in a mass grave.

This behaviour is grotesque and obscene, and it happened in a region which was under the control / occupation of Russian troops for weeks, there were no Ukranians there at all, except civilians. So the circumstantial evidence is clear (IMO it is prima fascie), this was done by undisciplined Russian troops as they prepared to withdraw / retreat from the region. I won't call it genocide (that word is ridiculously overused in the Western media), but it is at minimum a massacre and a war crime.

Russian channels have covered it in detail. Their view (I have a working knowledge of Russian) is:
A massacre did take place.
The people shot were civilians who supported the Russians. They were shot by Ukie paramilitary units, who did the same thing in the Donbass.
Apparently, the people shot had white arm bands (which Russian army had told people to wear to identify themselves as supporters). There seem to be intercepted communications, where orders were given to shoot anyone with white armbands, in the newly liberated areas.

Not saying I agree, just posting the other version.

Roop · Post by **Roop** » 05 Apr 2022 09:51

Deans wrote:Russian channels have covered it in detail. Their view (I have a working knowledge of Russian) is...
... Not saying I agree, just posting the other version ...

Thanks, Deans, for that update. Food for thought.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 05 Apr 2022 12:41

Bucha is a big false flag going in direction of Iraq WMD, what for!

thanks Deans!

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 05 Apr 2022 12:49

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 05 Apr 2022 12:56

banrjeer · Post by **banrjeer** » 05 Apr 2022 13:09

Roop wrote:This Bucha massacre looks very bad for Russia. I'm not going by Western media reports, I'm going by Indian TV reports (Arnab's channel, Republic TV). These are Indian journalists reporting, and the facts are clear: dozens (maybe hundreds) of civilians have been massacred, murdered in cold blood, shot with their hands tied behind their backs, the bodies dumped in a mass grave.

This behaviour is grotesque and obscene, and it happened in a region which was under the control / occupation of Russian troops for weeks, there were no Ukranians there at all, except civilians. So the circumstantial evidence is clear (IMO it is prima fascie), this was done by undisciplined Russian troops as they prepared to withdraw / retreat from the region. I won't call it genocide (that word is ridiculously overused in the Western media), but it is at minimum a massacre and a war crime.

Not clear how the people died. Some people say they were hit by artillery blasts around the 20th fired from
Ukrainian positions to retake the town. There are satellite pics of of the bodies

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 05 Apr 2022 13:20

Re-posting what I posted before:

Amateur internet analysts have debunked elensky's Bucha lies. While no one can say for sure if the bodies are real or not, the videos released by Ukr indeed appear to be staged. The most damning detail is that Russians left Bucha on mar 30th, town's mayor announced Bucha is liberated on 31st, no mention of the alleged massacre of 80 people, April 1 & 2, Ukr army and Azov battalions enter the town, April 3 Ukr govt releases these videos.

I've seen the videos alleging RA massacre in Bucha, looks legit on the face of it, elensly and his ministers have lot of film/tv production experience after all, until you replay it a few times and look critically.

Here is my analyis: Some forensic-ish details follow, so read on if you aren't faint hearted.

1. Usually in such massacres, people are rounded up and shot, in a confined, semi-confined space so that they cant runaway, especially if you are in a hurry to pack up and leave like RA was on 30th March. So you'll find a pile of bodies in one place or groups of bodies in several places. In these videos, you'll see bodies dispersed along one road, one body every 10-15 meters (to get a good shot when filmed from a moving vehicle?), on the road and sidewalks - as if people stood there each person by himself, and waited to be gunned down by someone going from one person to the next.

2. You even see a couple of people who were shot riding bicycles with the bicycle still between their legs... why would someone ride a bicycle on a road where random people are being killed every few meters ?! Its odd they would drop dead like that without even taking a step or two.

3. No flow of blood traces around the bodies - a human has 5-6 litres of blood, even if clothes absorb some of it, there would be a dried up dark brown puddle around if the person fell where he was shot. There are no large blood stains on clothes either.

4. Such executions are usually done with a shot in the back of the head, the bullet invariably has an exit wound. Most bodies are face turned away from camera, no wound on the back of the head. If they were shot in the limbs and left to bleed to death, there would be blood pools, signs of someone trying to crawl even a few feet... there is nothing of that sort. Actually its hard to tell what exactly caused the death, and at that very spot.

5. If RA committed these on the last day they were in Bucha, that is 30th April and the videos were shot on 2nd or 3rd, and released on 3rd night or 4th, then its been at least 72 hours since death. Rigor mortis sets in a few hours after death, peaks at about 12 hrs and dissipates about 48 hrs after death. So one would expect this bodies to be flaccid and limbs splayed awry. But all the bodies appear compactly together and limbs stiff indicating rigor mortis at the time of filming, therefore a very recent death wrt to the day the video was shot by whoever from Ukr.

6. I checked the temperature data for Kyiv since the 30th of March 2022 and the night time temperatures are at least 4°C, day time temps above 15°C, and dropped to between -1 and 6°C 2nd, 3rd and 4th Apiril. So there were no morgue-freezer conditions of min -10°C or below throughout. If they were killed 3-4 days ago, that is on on before 30th March, the bodies lying exposed on the road would have started decomposing and releasing stench. You see in those videos, a few people wandering slowly like zombies along those streets unaffected by the stench such decomposition would generate. Quite odd.

7. If they had 3-4 days since the Russians killed all these people on main road in the middle of the town and left, NO ONE bothered to do anything, no med/evidence collection happened or the dead were put in a morgue, no one even covered the dead with a shroud out of basic decency, no kith and kin tried to reclaim and bury the bodies, all waiting for the film crew to come and film everything? Beats comprehension.

8. No details of the circumstances in which these people were killed. At what time on what day did these killings happen? Were they taken from homes? Were they brought to this road and shot one every few meters or they were shot while just going along those roads? What were they doing there? Going to get groceries or something else? No shops visible on that road. Where did those bicycle riders come from, where were they going? No details or statements by the families of the victims were released along with the videos. None of the usual human suffering p*rn the media loves to showcase - which is again very odd.

9. If Russians wanted to kill as many as they could before leaving, why not just blast residential blocks with tank shells and arty? Why pick up people and shoot them on streets? Especially when so many small arms were ostensibly distributed just a few weeks ago to civilians? Doesn't add up, doesn't establish a motive except if they were maniacs like Azov battalions used to wanton civilian killings and spread terror.

The whole story Ukraine Govt has put out and amplified by western media without basic checking just doesn't add up.

Then why are they doing it? Why now? Why did UK block Russia's demand for UNSC meeting and independent investigation of Bucha killings? Besides the obvious need to discredit RA and paint them black, I suspect this has something to do with the ongoing situation at Azovstahl steel plant at Mariupol...

Indian media loves to "recoil in horror" and have jumped blindly into it. They know by now that a huge media war is going on and should have been careful to take time to check before rushing in "live exclusive first..." etc, then taking sides and crying hoarse for TRPs

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 05 Apr 2022 15:32

Deans wrote:A summary of Russia's order of battle (ORBAT) for this war, as far as I can make out:

….

Excellent work Deans ji.

So I’m guessing that current predictions are that the western military district forces being pulled back from Kyiv/Sumy/ Chernihiv will reinforce the eastern Donbas front.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 05 Apr 2022 16:08

The western machine is doubling down on the Bucha allegations, with relentless media barrage, statements by leaders and ministers of all NATO states condemning the killings largely to rile up their own populations, piling on more sanctions though what more can be done economically is not clear. The word genocide thrown about casually. elensly will address UNSC today, talks of removing Russia from UNHRC. Russian diplomats are being expelled Fromm EU countries; I won't be surprised if there are calls for Russia to be excluded from UN and various other fora altogether and make it a worse pariah state than North Korea.

I was expecting a N/chem false flag by NATO but they have chosen the easier route of mass killings instead. While I think RA could have killed civilians as collateral damage and there could be rare cases of rogue soldiers who commit war crimes, what I have seen as "evidence" for these particular allegations in Bucha is plainly staged and fabricated. The bodies are real, the story spun around them is not. The killings are real, but who killed them, when and now is not demonstrable from the videos released by Ukr in the media. A careful analysis of Bucha videos reveals the filming was staged, probably by moving bodies from the area to a specific road and positioned there for making the film they released. Given all the points I observed in may post above, especially given the fact that RA evacuated Bucha on 30th and these allegations are coming at least 3-4 days later by which time UkrA battalions have already moved in, and the freshness of the cadavers displayed discredits and exposes the story Ukraine is selling.

The categorisation of allegations against Russia as "genocide", "war crimes", "crimes against humanity" etc. will provide enough justification for US/NATO to anything they wish against Russia now. Even if Russia provides enough proof that these killings were not their doing, the "global" public opinion has been moved strongly against them, believing Russia's arguments now means disbelieving and doubting what their own govts have been telling them and painting their own Govts as monsters/collaborators to Ukr's crimes and most people will back off from doing that.

If US & NATO have played this card now, it implies
- they are sure of the certain destruction that awaits tens of thousands of UkrA troops in eastern Ukr in the Russian cauldron,
- they have created a bargaining chip against Russia against the skeletons stumbling out of Azovstahl in Mariupol. Russia returns high ranking NATO officers caught there and the West eases off on the "repercussions for war crimes"
- they have set the stage for direct NATO intervention to "save humanity"

Man, the viciousness of these democratic, champions of human rights countries is unbelievable !!!

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 05 Apr 2022 16:15

Cyrano wrote:The western machine is doubling down on the Bucha allegations, with relentless media barrage, statements by leaders and ministers of all NATO states condemning the killings largely to rile up their own populations, piling on more sanctions though what more can be done economically is not clear. The word genocide thrown about casually. elensly will address UNSC today, talks of removing Russia from UNHRC. Russian diplomats are being expelled Fromm EU countries; I won't be surprised if there are calls for Russia to be excluded from UN and various other fora altogether and make it a worse pariah state than North Korea.

I was expecting a N/chem false flag by NATO but they have chosen the easier route of mass killings instead. While I think RA could have killed civilians as collateral damage and there could be rare cases of rogue soldiers who commit war crimes, what I have seen as "evidence" for these particular allegations in Bucha is plainly staged and fabricated. The bodies are real, the story spun around them is not. The killings are real, but who killed them, when and now is not demonstrable from the videos released by Ukr in the media. A careful analysis of Bucha videos reveals the filming was staged, probably by moving bodies from the area to a specific road and positioned there for making the film they released. Given all the points I observed in may post above, especially given the fact that RA evacuated Bucha on 30th and these allegations are coming at least 3-4 days later by which time UkrA battalions have already moved in, and the freshness of the cadavers displayed discredits and exposes the story Ukraine is selling.

The categorisation of allegations against Russia as "genocide", "war crimes", "crimes against humanity" etc. will provide enough justification for US/NATO to anything they wish against Russia now. Even if Russia provides enough proof that these killings were not their doing, the "global" public opinion has been moved strongly against them, believing Russia's arguments now means disbelieving and doubting what their own govts have been telling them and painting their own Govts as monsters/collaborators to Ukr's crimes and most people will back off from doing that.

If US & NATO have played this card now, it implies
- they are sure of the certain destruction that awaits tens of thousands of UkrA troops in eastern Ukr in the Russian cauldron,
- they have created a bargaining chip against Russia against the skeletons stumbling out of Azovstahl in Mariupol. Russia returns high ranking NATO officers caught there and the West eases off on the "repercussions for war crimes"
- they have set the stage for direct NATO intervention to "save humanity"

Man, the viciousness of these democratic, champions of human rights countries is unbelievable !!!

What did you expect?

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 05 Apr 2022 16:21

I don't know, no one "expects" such things, but seeing this unrestrained viciousness unfold sitting in Europe is pretty disturbing and enraging for me.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 05 Apr 2022 16:27

More and more videos emerging of UkrA soldiers beating, touring and killing Ukrainians they think have sympathised with RA. Possession of RA food rations that were handed out by withdrawing RA forces is enough to get you killed now.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 05 Apr 2022 16:45

Cyrano wrote:More and more videos emerging of UkrA soldiers beating, touring and killing Ukrainians they think have sympathised with RA. Possession of RA food rations that were handed out by withdrawing RA forces is enough to get you killed now.

Several clips from Russian TV where Ukie POW's confess to these things and also schools / homes turned into fighting positions. Also there seem to be more Ukie POWs from Mariupol now - from 10s a day to 100s a day last 2 days. Interestingly, all men leaving the area are checked for chemical residue to make sure they have not handled weapons.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 05 Apr 2022 16:56

Its becoming increasingly impossible for Russia to get its side of story and evidence across.

Here is what German channel DW is showing, France24 is very similar. I dont watch BBC, but you can imagine them being a few notches shriller.

DW has mixed several videos together, only a part of the videos I've analysed is shown, but clips of staged bodies positioned along a road, and people with RA ration packs killed are briefly shown in this news report:

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 05 Apr 2022 17:31

Roop wrote:This Bucha massacre looks very bad for Russia. I'm not going by Western media reports, I'm going by Indian TV reports (Arnab's channel, Republic TV). These are Indian journalists reporting, and the facts are clear: dozens (maybe hundreds) of civilians have been massacred, murdered in cold blood, shot with their hands tied behind their backs, the bodies dumped in a mass grave.

This behaviour is grotesque and obscene, and it happened in a region which was under the control / occupation of Russian troops for weeks, there were no Ukranians there at all, except civilians. So the circumstantial evidence is clear (IMO it is prima fascie), this was done by undisciplined Russian troops as they prepared to withdraw / retreat from the region. I won't call it genocide (that word is ridiculously overused in the Western media), but it is at minimum a massacre and a war crime.

The Russisns are claiming these are pro Russian civilians executed by the SBU.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 05 Apr 2022 17:33

ramana wrote:Somehow Indian channels are suddenly anti-Putin. That itself is suspicious.

They clearly received enough largesse to sing a new tune sir.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 05 Apr 2022 17:37

Cyrano wrote:I don't know, no one "expects" such things, but seeing this unrestrained viciousness unfold sitting in Europe is pretty disturbing and enraging for me.

I can feel your pain. War is horrible business and truth is it’s first casualty.
Unfortunately the ones most keen on war are most often the ones who sit in comfort when the bullets start flying.

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 05 Apr 2022 19:11

Karan M wrote:
ramana wrote:Somehow Indian channels are suddenly anti-Putin. That itself is suspicious.
They clearly received enough largesse to sing a new tune sir.

They Ukr version as ultimate verified news. No journalistic prudence what so ever.

bala · Post by **bala** » 05 Apr 2022 19:31

Man, the viciousness of these democratic, champions of human rights countries is unbelievable

When I first saw the Republican Guards bombed like cockroaches on a highway in IRAQ in GulfWar, all pretense of democratic, human rights were completely wiped out. Make no mistake that a cabal of people carefully groomed in key positions throughout the Govts of Western nations whom we call the Deep State are the actual perpetrators of worldwide mayhem/destruction/death and the MSM (key people also a part of this system) make sure they blame someone else for the acts. They are ruthless, heartless, single minded and are of beastly character. So much fake stuff foisted on the unsuspecting common aadmi, day in day out.

I take solace in BhagawadGita, which stated long back, "Your not killed when you are killed". Nothing can destroy the indestructible Atma. The only justice leveler is Karma and its is enforced no matter what.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 05 Apr 2022 19:33

rsingh wrote:
Karan M wrote:
They clearly received enough largesse to sing a new tune sir.
They Ukr version as ultimate verified news. No journalistic prudence what so ever.

For Ukraine coverage, Indian channels seem to get or rely on Western narrative and run with it. I don't see relying on "independant" sources, if there are any, or providing based on forensic analysis or showing both narratives with neutral stance.

Republic TV or WION dropped some "reporters" and running what they say is truth (boisterous Arnab uses their report as truth). Shekar Gupta in one video is relying on Western writers as gospel truth because such people has been writing in top western media for long time.

John · Post by **John** » 05 Apr 2022 19:45

If they had 3-4 days since the Russians killed all these people on main road in the middle of the town and left, NO ONE bothered to do anything, no med/evidence collection happened or the dead were put in a morgue, no one even covered the dead with a shroud out of basic decency, no kith and kin tried to reclaim and bury the bodies, all waiting for the film crew to come and film everything? Beats comprehension.

Given that Ukr are finding russian abandoning there vehicle that are fully fueled, parked neatly in people’s driveways and without even destroying any of operation mission documents. Nothing should be surprising.

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 05 Apr 2022 20:17

ShyamSP wrote:…
For Ukraine coverage, Indian channels seem to get or rely on Western narrative and run with it….

As in other fields, it’s economics and relationships. Calculate the cost of maintaining just one reporter and cameraman in Ukraine ( far less a crew) in one location. Then compare that against just sitting at home and downloading a barrage of reportage by various western agencies across Ukraine.

Then track how many Indian journalists on responsible positions have done their higher studies in England and the US (versus those who have done it in Russia). Google ‘Chevening scholarship’.

And then do the math.

As an aside, it’s five times as expensive again for a ‘recognised’ western crew. CNN for example used to provide its war reporting crews with bodyguards! Private planes to places of needed. And the insurance premiums on these reporters - ai yi yi yi yi.

Why does Fox have such lousy on-ground coverage? Because they realised twenty years or more ago that you could just as easily have ‘experts’ in a studio talk crap about a subject and get the same viewers as spending millions on actual reportage.

Source for the above - trust me, bro. No, really.