Project 75I - It Begins

[srai]

IN wasting too much time like the IAF on import acquisitions. Whatever happened to the “builders navy”?

Don’t understand decades old fetish for another foreign SSK. IN has P-75 Scorpene SSK that were built in India. There are opportunities to continually build and improve upon that design. Yet, it is a path not taken.

If anything, the whole “make in India” with ToT license doesn’t bring the know-hows to build one’s own. What a waste of resources.

[Rakesh]

If the S80 does not clear technical evaluations then it will become a single vendor situation and the tender will have to be cancelled wouldn't it?

Remember the recently concluded MRCBF contest? Only two contenders participated - the F-18SH and the Rafale M. The F-18SH lost and the Rafale M won. But both passed the technical evaluations (as confirmed by the Navy Chief himself), but the Rafale M scored higher.

Same situation will happen here. Navantia will pass the evaluation alright (the Indian Navy will ensure that happens), but the HDW boat will score higher. And the red rose will be given to HDW.

The Germans have mastered the unterseeboot for nearly a century now, if not more. The Germans have been perfecting their craft of building submarines since World War I. They have it down to a fine art form. The Indian Navy loves their four HDW 209, Type 1500 boats and they now want the next generation of the HDW 209, which is what the Type 214 (and subsequent variants i.e. Type 216, Type 218SG) is.

The only boat that would rival the German boat, would be the Soryu or Taigei Class of boats from Japan. But let me not fall into the trap of brochuritis

Added Later: See the below. Amazing how things work in the MoD, no? --->

Trials for submarines to start in a few months, want to work together on ammo: Spain
https://m.economictimes.com/news/defenc ... 335892.cms
08 March 2024

“We have been advised that the technical offer has been assessed as compliant. The next step is to undertake trials of the Air Independent Propulsion System (AIP) of the offered design. L&T and Navantia are working to commence the trials in a few months,” Valcare said.

[Rakesh]

I don't think so. The Germans have this "human rights" bee that drones too much, are quite close to the cheens and are politically unreliable. Like we can't afford to buy American fighters (due to sanctions etc), we can't afford frontline warships from German either.

My guess is that this will end up like the MMRCA. We'll order more Scorpenes (and use this to negotiate more "TOT") after the babus faint when the see the price quote for P75I.

Officers of the Indian Navy are visiting Germany (if not already there now) to evaluate a HDW boat. See here ---> viewtopic.php?p=2614526#p2614526

We don't know which boat the Indian Navy is evaluating in Germany. I doubt it will be the Type 212, as that is classified tech. I am assuming it will be some variant of the Type 214. The rumour mill is that HDW is offering a larger variant of the Type 218SG, of which four have been purchased by Singapore. But it is speculation at this stage.

The Germans are also participating in the Indian Navy's torpedo contest to acquire new generation torpedoes for the Scorpene fleet. The three contenders I believe are Atlas Elektronik of Germany that is offering the DM2A4 torpedo, WASS of Italy that is offering the Black Shark torpedo and then Naval Group that is offering the F21 torpedo.

Another contest the Germans are participating in is the Medium Transport Aircraft competing, in which the A400M from Airbus is on offer.

Basically, the Germans want a slice of the pie that France and the US are right now enjoying from India. They are unreliable, but that is a call the GOI will have to make, IF & WHEN the P-75I contest reaches its logical conclusion.

P.S. Germany walked out (just like France, Russia and Sweden) of the P-75I contest and that forced the MoD (and the Indian Navy) to revise/extend the deadline of submissions for the P-75I program, to avoid a single vendor situation. Post that revision/extension by the MoD, Germany expressed renewed interest in the contest.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/SJha1618/status/1768918515619377185?s=20 ---> Turning to the seas, I really don't see how the Indian Navy will become Atmanirbhar/Self-reliant by 2047 unless it commences development of an indigenous diesel-electric submarine this year itself.

[nachiket]

If the S80 does not clear technical evaluations then it will become a single vendor situation and the tender will have to be cancelled wouldn't it?

Remember the recently concluded MRCBF contest? Only two contenders participated - the F-18SH and the Rafale M. The F-18SH lost and the Rafale M won. But both passed the technical evaluations (as confirmed by the Navy Chief himself), but the Rafale M scored higher.

Same situation will happen here. Navantia will pass the evaluation alright (the Indian Navy will ensure that happens), but the HDW boat will score higher. And the red rose will be given to HDW.
....

“We have been advised that the technical offer has been assessed as compliant. The next step is to undertake trials of the Air Independent Propulsion System (AIP) of the offered design. L&T and Navantia are working to commence the trials in a few months,” Valcare said.

I pray you are right and fear that you are wrong. Perhaps this time admiral you should promise mithai if the submarine (S80) does not get selected

[Rakesh]

Saar, if I am wrong...the Indian Navy will get the S80 boat and the country will have wasted billions of $$$ on building a larger & modified Scorpene Class boat, when we can do that same thing without getting the S80 boat. Then we will rinse and repeat the same process again. What Saurav Jha said above your post is correct.

Project 76 is a smoke-and-mirrors tamasha to get a HDW boat for Project 75I. The Germans will give us nothing, just like how the French did with Project 75 (Kalvari Class). Who is going to remember in 2047, that 2047 was the year that the Indian Navy planned to go full Atmanirbhar Bharat?

[srai]

^^^
Indian Navy Great-Great-Great grandfather generations’ vision will finally become reality in 2047

[Rakesh]

^^^
Indian Navy Great-Great-Great grandfather generations’ vision will finally become reality in 2047

===================================

VIDEO: https://x.com/AjayshreeSamby3/status/17 ... 08511?s=20 ---> S-81 Issac Peral. The Spanish offering for P-75I by @NavantiaOficial along with @larsentoubro. First ever inside access to this 3,000 ton giant submarine while in active duty.

[srai]

^^^
Plenty of women crew in that video. Spanish Navy SSK solved the mixed crew for the IN and “Nari Shakti”

[Rakesh]

Naval HQ will now go into damage control mode. Their beloved U214/U216 is in danger.

https://x.com/sidhant/status/1771163426770796659?s=20 ---> German Foreign ministry reacts to Arvind Kejriwal development: we have taken note, India is a democratic country. We assume and expect that the standards relating to independence of Judiciary & basic democratic principles will also be applied in this case.

https://x.com/sidhant/status/1771163674775879826?s=20 ---> German Foreign ministry reacts to Arvind Kejriwal development: Like anyone facing accusations, Mr Kejriwal is entitled to a fair and impartial trial, this includes he can make use of all available legal avenues without restrictions.

https://x.com/sidhant/status/1771163825045229760?s=20 ---> German Foreign ministry reacts to Arvind Kejriwal development: The presumption of innocence is a central element of the rule of law and must apply to him.

[hgupta]

Good riddance to the German weapons. We don't need them nor we want them. Time for India to wean off German exports.

[Cybaru]

Hopefully we get the biggest 3-4K ton boat with longest endurance. Batteries are getting cheaper and with an AIP combo, let's hope the next generation boats have both decent range and speed.

[Roop]

Naval HQ will now go into damage control mode. Their beloved U214/U216 is in danger.
...
https://x.com/sidhant/status/1771163674775879826?s=20 ---> German Foreign ministry reacts to Arvind Kejriwal development:

Pardon my ignorance but what is this "Arvind Kejriwal development" and why does it concern Germany?

[Rakesh]

Naval HQ will now go into damage control mode. Their beloved U214/U216 is in danger.
...
https://x.com/sidhant/status/1771163674775879826?s=20 ---> German Foreign ministry reacts to Arvind Kejriwal development:

Pardon my ignorance but what is this "Arvind Kejriwal development" and why does it concern Germany?

I am not sure how much of the saga surrounding Arvind Kejriwal you are aware of. I am not going to go into every sordid detail of the liqour scam, as it is not germane to this thread.

But I will say this ---> Arvind Kejriwal is a slimy sleaze ball who unfortunately got elected as the CM of Delhi. He has used the post of CM for his personal financial benefit and the liqour scam is his latest gift (not grift ) to the citizens of Delhi. He subsequently got arrested by the Enforcement Directorate (ED) as the evidence in the liquour scam is overwhelming against his favour.

Also not germane to this thread is Arvind Kejriwal's many dubious connections to Western NGOs who have operations in India. You can look that up via a Google search. But this is an important point to keep in mind, considering why Germany is getting takleef over Arvind Kejriwal's arrest.

Now this is the backdrop with regards to Arvind Kejriwal.

Germany, post their emasculation in World War II, has taken up the mantle of ensuring that non-European nations follow free & fair elections. This is their "moral" contribution to the world, after their horrendous behaviour as Nazis in the Second World War. They go around the world preaching Western democracy as the model on which societies thrive and succeed. That is the message they convey, but their motives are usually otherwise.

Germany (along with the rest of the Western world) determine who plays naughty or nice in the rules-based international order (RBIO), which has its foundations based on political liberalism, economic liberalism and liberal internationalism. Now these are just fancy terms for Western European nations looking to exploit the cheap labour in non-European nations to maintain their financial and technical superiority. Challenge that set norm and you will have the RBIO breathing down your neck.

Germany, like the rest of the RBIO-advocating nations, used their many connections - via NGOs, international corporations, etc - to exercise (via backdoor) political, economic and financial control in India. It worked great, as long as the Lackeys and Kangaroos in the Congress Party were the ones in power. The Congress Party only thinks in Five Year Plans (every election season) and could care less what happens to the country or who is actually in control.

So this is the backdrop with regards to Germany.

Enter Modi, the BJP and the year 2014. An unconventional politician - as per the RBIO - who occupied the highest office in the land in that year. He is an enigma to these folks. On one hand, Modi says and does all the right things that the RBIO wants to hear i.e. when it comes to the economy, China, foreign investments, etc. But on the other hand - as per the RBIO - Modi is a right wing, nationalist Hindu ideologue that wants to eradicate non-Hindus from the "secular" fabric that is India. Modi is also friendly and too chummy with one of the RBIO's chief enemies i.e. Putin. Those Putin-Modi hugs are a hard pill to swallow, especially considering how much the RBIO has invested in attempting to wean India away from Russia.

Controlling Modi - via puppet strings - is not working out for the RBIO, as they had hoped. Even worse for the RBIO, Modi is cutting the strings of their other puppets in India i.e. Arvind Kejriwal. Cut the string and you lose your influence and your control. Thus the takleef over Arvind Kejriwal's arrest.

Germany's explanation that they are concerned about his arrest - in the middle of India's general election season - is a lame excuse and not the real reason. And that message was beautifully conveyed by India's Ministry of External Affairs (MEA) to Germany's Deputy Head of Mission in India ---> https://x.com/TimesAlgebraIND/status/17 ... 35978?s=20

Hope this helps.

[bala]

Germany is also one of the looters of wealth from Bharat during BritshitRaj rule. The Queendom of England was populated with German origin line like the House of Hanover and then came House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha. Loot went towards Germany. The other nations who looted from Bharat were France, DutchLand and Portugal. The wealth capitalized their banks and bootstrapped their nations towards prosperity.

[drnayar]

" BIG BREAKING NEWS Georg Enzweiler, Deputy Head of Mission, German Embassy visits External Affairs Ministry after he was summoned by MEA

He reached MEA office at 11:25 am & meeting got over at 11:30 in just 5 minutes

Germany had "taken note" of Kejriwal's arrest.

His body language reminds of the Canadian & Maldivian envoy "

[drnayar]

Personally I think MEA keeps dossiers on every western "democratic" country. Just to show them when they preach .. the German ambassador looks a bit pale after that "encounter "

[Roop]

I am not sure how much of the saga surrounding Arvind Kejriwal you are aware of. ...

Well I knew, of course, that Khujliwal was a dirtbag, and I knew of his impending arrest, but I just didn't know how the hell it was any of Germany's business. Now you have explained it very well. Thanks.

Hope this helps.

Thanks very much Rakesh.

[nachiket]

Naval HQ will now go into damage control mode. Their beloved U214/U216 is in danger.

https://x.com/sidhant/status/1771163426770796659?s=20 ---> German Foreign ministry reacts to Arvind Kejriwal development: we have taken note, India is a democratic country. We assume and expect that the standards relating to independence of Judiciary & basic democratic principles will also be applied in this case.

Navantia will be licking their lips now.

[Pratyush]

The funny thing is, if the Indian Navy decided to go 100% indigenous route for this procurement. Then the timeline for indigenous option would not be that much longer than the imported submarine.

All the skills required to produce a functional submarine are in India.

[Rakesh]

Thanks very much Rakesh.

You are very welcome.

[Rakesh]

Navantia will be licking their lips now.

Navantia is pleased from one angle i.e. HDW’s “possible” ouster due to Germany’s political interference.

But if I were Navantia, I would be cautiously optimistic. MoD could now pull the plug on the contest, *IF* Germany continues this behaviour. Odds are that Germany will likely do so, till the outcome of the 2024 General Elections are out. It is all knives out for the BJP.

The only one who will be waiting - I believe - with champagne and cigars is Naval Group. And to be very honest, that is the smart thing for the Navy to do.

Do six more boats (instead of the three being negotiated now with Naval Group) under a Project 75A program. Then instead of Project 76, do a follow on Project 75B program (another six boats). And so on. Each succeeding class will have a greater level of Indian content, with the end goal being a fully indigenized boat. We are doing it right now with the Delhi Class (Project 15), then Kolkata Class (Project 15A), then Visakhapatnam Class (Project 15B), etc.

The Navy is already installing the DRDO AIP on the Kalvari Class boats and the three being negotiated for, will also have the same. Navy’s insistence of yet another AIP system for the P-75I contest makes no sense.

Why work with another OEM, when you are already working with one now? Why work with Navantia, when you can get a larger Scorpene boat from Naval Group itself? A bird in hand, is worth two in the bush.

[srai]

^^^

India already builds its own mini-SSBNs!

[Rakesh]

^^^

India already builds its own mini-SSBNs!

That India is L&T, which is in a build program for a HEU-powered reactor for the Arihant Class SSBN + her successor, the S-5 SSBN program

The design, internals, machinery are all vastly different compared to a SSK. Different boats for different purposes.

India needs to develop her own diesel engines for her own indigenous SSKs. Our main Achilles' heel is the engine, just like with the Tejas program. Even the six Kalvari Class boats use the MTU 12V 396 SE84 diesel engine from Germany

Every other technical challenge - for naval vessels, aircraft or land vehicles - is secondary IMVHO to the engine. No engine and your platform will not move. Germany denied the MTU engine for the Zorawar light tank, so we went to Cummins in the US who is now supplying the diesel engine for the light tank. Delays in engine for the Arjun Mk1A tanks - again from Germany - has now forced India to develop her own 1,500 hp diesel engine and the first prototype was recently tested. In the same vein, India needs to invest in diesel engines for her naval vessels as well. Something for our bean counters in the MoD to look at.

But we cannot keep our SSK build program on hold, till an indigenous one comes online. So you have to continue with what you have. And that IMVHO should be more Scorpene Class boats in successive build programs of six in each class.

Project 75: Six Kalvari Class
Project 75A: Kalvari+ Class (of which three are being negotiated with Naval Group, but it should be six)
Project 75B: Six Boats (with an even greater level of indigenization than Project 75A)
and so on...

By the time we get to Project 76, the boat should be completely Indian in origin. This is doable and not some flight of fancy. We are doing this right now with the Project 15 (Delhi Class), Project 15A (Kolkata Class), Project 15B (Visakhapatnam Class). Compare the level of indigenization of each class in the Project 15 series. The only outlier with the Project 15 series, is again the engines.

There must be a national program on engines for all three spheres i.e. air, land and sea. That is sorely lacking in India.

[Rakesh]

X-Post from the Indian Navy News & Discussion thread....

India deploys 11 submarines, a first in nearly three decades
https://theprint.in/defence/india-deplo ... s/2013839/
24 March 2024

The Navy’s proposal to acquire six more advanced submarines with better technology has already been delayed by over a decade, and the likelihood of the first being delivered by 2030 is slim, sources told ThePrint.

[srai]

Yes, mini-SSBN and SSK different.

However, India is embarking on 6 indigenous SSN. So submarine designing and building capability exists.

There are also 6 license built Scorpene SSK. Indian can keep iterating on this and learn more. IN has many decades of SSK operational knowledge of various Russian and Western designs.

But at some point India needs to take that step in building its own designed SSK. It shouldn’t defer for too long.

[Rakesh]

Well I knew, of course, that Khujliwal was a dirtbag, and I knew of his impending arrest, but I just didn't know how the hell it was any of Germany's business. Now you have explained it very well. Thanks.

See this from Kanwal Sibal, the former Indian Foreign Secretary.

https://x.com/KanwalSibal/status/177176 ... 12831?s=20 ---> Germany’s political interest in Kejriwal is long standing. German President Joachim Gauck visiting India in 2014, invited Kejriwal to meet him at the embassy. Kejriwal had become the Chief Minister in December 2013. I was present at the Embassy’s reception for the German President and was struck by the importance given to Kejriwal and interest in his agenda.

[Cybaru]

Hopefully we get the biggest 3-4K ton boat with longest endurance. Batteries are getting cheaper and with an AIP combo, let's hope the next generation boats have both decent range and speed.

I am mistaken.

On second thoughts, given the ambush style of engagement for diesels, the smallest boat with highest battery density and AIP make the most sense. It can ambush for much longer.

We have a glaring SSN gap. Hope we fix it soon.

[Ankit Desai]

Indian Navy team in Germany to inspect AIP tech for new submarines, Spain next

They will look into the efficiency claims of the German submarine maker ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS), which is the frontrunner to bag the mega contract.

Sources also said that once this trip was completed, the team would also travel to Spain to check the AIP system of Spanish submarine manufacturer Navantia, the other foreign contender for the Navy deal.

Project 76
Another proposal in the works is Project 76.

While India has managed to design and build its own nuclear submarine with help from the Russians, the country has never designed or manufactured a conventional submarine.

The Naval Design Bureau is working on a conventional diesel-electric submarine with AIP technology that will be the future of India’s submarine plans.

It will be an in-house project and the Navy is already focusing on systems and technology the submarine will have and designing the vessel around that.

-Ankit

[Rakesh]

Indian Navy team in Germany to inspect AIP tech for new submarines, Spain next

They will look into the efficiency claims of the German submarine maker ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS), which is the frontrunner to bag the mega contract.

Germany relented only after several meetings with the Navy.

Germany relented! The sheer lunacy!

So how did HDW become the frontrunner in the P-75I contest? After Begging, Pleading and Cajoling and thus they Relented

[Pratyush]

Why do we need to look at the efficiency of German AIP? Can't the tech developed by DRDO for AIP be scaled up or down to be integrated with whichever design is chosen?

[Rakesh]

Why do we need to look at the efficiency of German AIP? Can't the tech developed by DRDO for AIP be scaled up or down to be integrated with whichever design is chosen?

The Navy wants the HDW boat and they will move heaven and earth for it.

After HDW walked out from the contest, the Navy had multiple meetings with HDW till they came back. So the Navy just handed their entire negotiating power to HDW. So whatever HDW demands, the Navy will now have to agree to. What other choice does the Navy have? Dismayed and Disappointed are the least offensive words one can use to describe the level of incompetence the Navy has just displayed.

They are putting the DRDO AIP on the Kalvari Class. That AIP will be operational and proven, well before the first HDW boat (as Project 75I) is commissioned into the Indian Navy. Seeing our archaic acquisition process, it will be another 10 years (MINIMUM) before the first Project 75I takes to the water for her sea trials. Is that delay worth the lives of submariners who operate aging Kilos? Just build six more Scorpenes and then move on to Project 76.

What is the plus in yet ANOTHER submarine type? What is this fascination from hopping from one complex build program to another complex build program? The IAC-2 program is the same sad story. Rinse and Repeat your Incompetence.

[Aditya_V]

Can we believe the article totally or it could be some marketing to influence by the Germans, its frustrating to see the delays, but I don't think we have revealed our cards yet.

[Rakesh]

Can we believe the article totally or it could be some marketing to influence by the Germans, its frustrating to see the delays, but I don't think we have revealed our cards yet.

Even if the article is a German influenced masterpiece, what has the Navy done to address the lacuna in their submarine shortage?

Naval Group had offered to build additional Scorpene boats, but it was the Navy that insisted on the unobtanium Project 75I. Do you remember the must-have requirement for VLS tubes for vertical launched BrahMos missiles in Project 75I? I have been advised that now that requirement has magically disappeared! Both contenders - Navantia and HDW - are reportedly offering their boats without those VLS tubes. What changed?

Q. When the Navy knew that Project 75I was going to be delayed, where was the back up plan from the Navy? It is the Raksha Mantri's job to figure out that the submarine shortage is acutely low? Or is that the Prime Minister's job? Or the President's job? What has FOSM (Flag Officer Submarines) being doing?

Q. Which Admiral will face an inquiry in front of a committee, if an another old Kilo boat goes *BOOM* like Sindhurakshak or has an unfortunate battery fire like Sindhuratna? It was because of Admiral DK Joshi's own high standards, that he resigned. There is no guarantee that another Admiral will follow the same pattern. One submariner even commented - post the Sindhuratna incident - "Sir, we are sailing on ticking time bombs."

Q. What changed the Navy's stance from not wanting more Scorpene Class boats to now acquiring three more of them? What changed, apart from excuses? What game changer is there on the HDW Type 214/216 boat, that is going to revolutionize undersea warfare for the Indian Navy? One can understand if this was a switch from a SSK to a SSN. One can even contend with the fact, if this was a switch from an older generation SSK (Kilo, Foxtrot, HDW 209) to a newer generation SSK (Scorpene).

What is perplexing is the fascination to build a whole other SSK of a similar generation. This ocean-going SSK concept is a marketing scam that submarine manufacturers are offering to gullible customers who cannot afford a SSN fleet. The Aussies soon realized that the Shortfin Barracuda was just not going to cut it, for the missions required and the Time on Station (ToS). Someone ask the French Navy if they would be willing to purchase the Shortfin Barracuda SSK (which is cheaper), in place of the Suffren Class SSN

Sometimes I wonder if our Admirals are acquiring platforms for the fulfillment of their ego and prestige. So at international naval exercises or fleet reviews, do our Admirals want to hear effusive praises - from their counterparts - about how wonderful and advanced their naval fleet is? Because I don't know of any other Navy that does this asinine hop, skip and jump from one platform to a whole other platform. Have our Admirals ever heard of Crawl, Walk & Run? From sitting in a wheelchair, they want to transition straight to Usain Bolt!

See below. From Perth to the South China Sea, the Shortfin Barracuda SSK has a ToS of 11 days versus 77 for a SSN. And from Perth to the East China Sea, the Shortfin Barracuda has a ToS endurance of ZERO. Now figure out the ToS an Ocean-Going SSK will have from Vizag to a similar theatre.

https://twitter.com/TheBaseLeg/status/1 ... 40384?s=20 ---> Follow @EvanLaksmana for the Indonesian take on AUKUS, from where he also linked this map that also shows why Australia is seeking an East Coast base for its SSNs.

[Pratyush]

Looking at the map posted by Rakesh.

It becomes clear that the the Indian Navy is not going to be operating in the South China sea using conventional submarines.

A conventional submarine, no matter how long ranged will not have the time on station.

But having said all the above. If an Indian SSK was to be based in Philippines. Then the issue of range will not longer apply. But in order to do so. The Indian submarine fleet has to be larger than 30. With 18 or more permanently forward deployed in the area of operations.

Not limited to 24, a number that we are not going to meet for the foreseeable future.

[Cybaru]

If we base 18 in forward foreign bases, we will also need to base support, ASW, ASuW, Defensive Air cover at these bases. If the shooting starts, Diesels will get stuck in these forward areas and become hunted. They do not have the speed to escape to safety. Best would be A&N islands as the farthest points for diesels to operate. AIP will allow them to wait and hunt for a long time and our bases can provide all the cover/support needed.

Best is nuke boats, don't need no stinking compromised foreign bases. It's good to be self sufficient.

I think all our diesels will be around 2K tons at most. There is a reason why all operational diesel submarines are converging around that 1.5K-2K tons.

[SRajesh]

Rakesh
I still believe :
1. A stronger RM at helm of affairs ( Wonder Modiji is giving KN a longer rope given the seniority)
2. A good CDS
3. A Detox Centre for Unobtanium/Phoren Maal
Like Tejas/Arjun build 6 more Scorpenes (given the size of Our Pond and watering holes viz A&N, Agalega and possible Cocos)
Use time and Money for SSN and SSBN
I am only an armchair Submariner but non-AIP conventional Subs would be sufficient for our littoral waters

[Pratyush]

Cybaru,

Exactly! Now you are thinking. The P 75I makes no sense on its own.

That's the reason why in the PRC thread on the forum. I had said that, if we are not able to figure out what is required to deal with the them. Then it's better to seek terms now. Then to continue with the delusion that with our efforts we can deal with the PRC that's evolving right infront of us.

[Adrija]

BRakshaks, sorry for an absolutely asinine question- in my defence I have been searching and am still unable to find a clear and simple answer- why exactly do we need SSKs?

And before someone answers that we require small boats to guard our littoral waters- Arabian Sea and BoB have equal depth.

The biggest challenge of our SSN/ SSBN program was building a reactor of a large enough capacity (90 MW) so I presume we are actually able to build smaller reactors... which means ideally we are well qualified to build smaller boats

And operating cost- isn't the cost of operating a SSN smaller longer term than that of SSKs?

So what am I missing here please?

[hgupta]

BRakshaks, sorry for an absolutely asinine question- in my defence I have been searching and am still unable to find a clear and simple answer- why exactly do we need SSKs?

And before someone answers that we require small boats to guard our littoral waters- Arabian Sea and BoB have equal depth.

The biggest challenge of our SSN/ SSBN program was building a reactor of a large enough capacity (90 MW) so I presume we are actually able to build smaller reactors... which means ideally we are well qualified to build smaller boats

And operating cost- isn't the cost of operating a SSN smaller longer term than that of SSKs?

So what am I missing here please?

Decommissioning costs. Refueling costs. They are all billion dollar affairs.