Project 75I - It Begins
Re: Project 75I - It Begins
Ton for ton of displacement, the Indian SSK is going to be more expensive than the verginia class submarines of the USN. So the argument of costs is not really justified.
The problem is the brass. That is making a complete dog's breakfast of our procurement programs. Consequently our war fighting ability.
In a sane military. The force would have taken 6 Kalvari class as is. Then they would have ordered 6 more with indigenous improvements. Followed by a 100% indigenous submarine by now.
But the brass has no ability to think in these terms.
The same situation applies in terms of aircraft carriers.
The problem is the brass. That is making a complete dog's breakfast of our procurement programs. Consequently our war fighting ability.
In a sane military. The force would have taken 6 Kalvari class as is. Then they would have ordered 6 more with indigenous improvements. Followed by a 100% indigenous submarine by now.
But the brass has no ability to think in these terms.
The same situation applies in terms of aircraft carriers.
Re: Project 75I - It Begins
German Government Throws Weight Behind Indian Navy’s Submarine Deal
https://bharatshakti.in/german-governme ... rine-deal/
10 April 2024
https://bharatshakti.in/german-governme ... rine-deal/
10 April 2024
Re: Project 75I - It Begins
Rakesh wrote: ↑11 Apr 2024 22:10 German Government Throws Weight Behind Indian Navy’s Submarine Deal
https://bharatshakti.in/german-governme ... rine-deal/
10 April 2024
Now I am well and truly frightened of this program.
We are going to get boats that will not be able to engage any thing.
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Re: Project 75I - It Begins
Well said Pratyush! The rot, in this case, is squarely with the IN Leadership.Pratyush wrote: ↑08 Apr 2024 07:08 Ton for ton of displacement, the Indian SSK is going to be more expensive than the verginia class submarines of the USN. So the argument of costs is not really justified.
The problem is the brass. That is making a complete dog's breakfast of our procurement programs. Consequently our war fighting ability.
In a sane military. The force would have taken 6 Kalvari class as is. Then they would have ordered 6 more with indigenous improvements. Followed by a 100% indigenous submarine by now.
But the brass has no ability to think in these terms.
The same situation applies in terms of aircraft carriers.
While the IN has, no doubt, been the most Atmanirbhar-friendly of all forces, they have huge blindspots - the submarine program is one of them.
And over the years, they have also started to demonstrate some of the undesirable characteristics (& biases) of the other Arms. And why not? If such behavior goes unpunished & even rewarded, the IN will imbibe the lesson that its ok to take the easy way out, its ok to dip into the gravy train & its ok to have an attitude of "since no one else cares for Atmanirbhar, why should we?"
This is why examples must be made of senior people - publicly. So that others watching will learn the right lessons
Re: Project 75I - It Begins
Stop giving out Scorpene plaques and build more Scorpenes!!!
https://x.com/navalgroup/status/1783397739767706009 ---> We are honoured to welcome General Anil Chauhan, CDS_India (@HQ_IDS_India) and Indian dignitaries at our headquarters in Paris. It was an opportunity to exchange on our long-standing cooperation with the Indian Defence industry in the spirit of Aatmanirbhar Bharat to offer our latest generation of technologies to the Indian Navy.
https://x.com/navalgroup/status/1783397739767706009 ---> We are honoured to welcome General Anil Chauhan, CDS_India (@HQ_IDS_India) and Indian dignitaries at our headquarters in Paris. It was an opportunity to exchange on our long-standing cooperation with the Indian Defence industry in the spirit of Aatmanirbhar Bharat to offer our latest generation of technologies to the Indian Navy.
Re: Project 75I - It Begins
P-75I Delays Leave India Vulnerable as Pakistan's Hangor Class Grows
https://defence.in/threads/p-75i-delays ... rows.6100/
https://defence.in/threads/p-75i-delays ... rows.6100/
Re: Project 75I - It Begins
^^^^
Don't worry.
Its all part of super intellectual plan the brass has come up with.
The capabilities desired by the brass were not available with any in service design in 2014. The South Koreans have developed a new design that has a VLS. Are you not able to see that the Indian program was designed to take SSK tech to the next level. So much so, that the South Koreans are not even in the running right now.
The other boat was one of the Amur Family with VLS. Yet that boat is also not in the running. The DRDO AIP is such a dead end that we know that it cannot be scaled up. Or even further developed to power a different JV project.
Don't worry.
Its all part of super intellectual plan the brass has come up with.
The capabilities desired by the brass were not available with any in service design in 2014. The South Koreans have developed a new design that has a VLS. Are you not able to see that the Indian program was designed to take SSK tech to the next level. So much so, that the South Koreans are not even in the running right now.
The other boat was one of the Amur Family with VLS. Yet that boat is also not in the running. The DRDO AIP is such a dead end that we know that it cannot be scaled up. Or even further developed to power a different JV project.
Re: Project 75I - It Begins
https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1785971031578128695 ---> This is why a AIP based submarine is important. A detailed article on website by 5 p.m.
Re: Project 75I - It Begins
Why Indian Navy needs “AIP based Submarine”Rakesh wrote: ↑02 May 2024 19:12 https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1785971031578128695 ---> This is why a AIP based submarine is important. A detailed article on website by 5 p.m.
https://alphadefense.in/index.php/2024/ ... ine/?amp=1
02 May 2024
Re: Project 75I - It Begins
^^^ still does not answer why we cannot standardize around nuclear SSNs and SSBNs
Re: Project 75I - It Begins
An all SSN fleet is very expensive. It is the most ideal situation, but not enough funds.
Secondly, our SSN program (Project 75 Alpha) is still on the drawing boards. It will be another decade - at minimum - before the first one takes to the water. Once that program gets underway, then the Govt of that time can look at an all SSN fleet. Till that time, AIP powered SSKs will be required.
The SSBN will remain a nuclear powered fleet, as the case is now.
Re: Project 75I - It Begins
Indian Navy begins trials in Rs 60,000 crore tender for 6 advanced submarines
https://aninews.in/news/world/asia/indi ... 503202534/
03 May 2024
https://aninews.in/news/world/asia/indi ... 503202534/
03 May 2024
Re: Project 75I - It Begins
India's submarine project battles hurdle amid rising China, Pakistan pressures
https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/India/in ... pressures/
20 May 2024
excerpts
https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/India/in ... pressures/
20 May 2024
excerpts
the futureP75(I) has strategic implications, especially considering China's growing submarine presence in the Indian Ocean Region and Pakistan's accelerated acquisition of these warships. The urgency for India to modernise its submarine fleet is evident as its current fleet is ageing and depleting. The Indian Navy's fleet of attack submarinesâ all diesel-powered has come down from 21 in the 1980s to just 16 at present. Only eight are battle-ready at any given time, as half of the fleet undergoes mid-life upgrades and is 30 years old. P75(I)'s success will enhance the India Navy's underwater capabilities and support the country's strategic defence objectives against regional threats.
Naval experts say that at a time China has been frequently deploying its conventional and nuclear submarines in the Indian Ocean Region under the pretext of anti-piracy missions, the Indian Navy's underwater capabilities need to be ramped up urgently. While China, with over 65 submarines, is the biggest threat, even the smaller navy of Pakistan appears to be racing ahead of India with faster acquisitions. Last month, China launched the first of eight Hangor-class submarines for Pakistan's navy at a Wuhan shipyard. The remaining four submarines will be built at Pakistan's Karachi Shipyard & Engineering Works Ltd under a transfer-of-technology agreement. The Pakistan Navy plans to add the submarines to its fleet by 2028.
Re: Project 75I - It Begins
https://x.com/Mark99xm/status/1793151527173099539 ---> China is preparing for a war and meanwhile India has put a submarine acquisition plan on hold to give some foreign company time to develop a tech (that has already been developed in India). Om Shanti.
https://x.com/EkNashwar/status/1792896401254257035 ---> P-75I @indiannavy
https://x.com/EkNashwar/status/1792896401254257035 ---> P-75I @indiannavy
Re: Project 75I - It Begins
Our Service Chiefs do give amazing speeches though. See below...
https://x.com/ajitkdubey/status/1793158676020425095 ---> Anytime, Anywhere, Anyhow protect national maritime interests: The new motto of the Indian Navy given by Admiral Dinesh Tripathi.
What a load of horseshit!
The key buzzword in the Anytime, Anywhere, Anyhow mantra is ANYHOW. If YOs and Sailors have to die (due to procurement delays) so be it, but protect the nation at all costs. Who bears responsibility (at Naval HQ or in the GOI) for sending young men and women to their deaths? Not a single Admiral or a Minister will stand before a court. Not a single one. Award a bravery medal to the family, sing National Anthem and then move on.
After the Sindhurakshak explosion on 14 Aug 2013, one YO submariner remarked, "Sir, we sit daily on a ticking time bomb."
Re: Project 75I - It Begins
Meanwhile....
Latest On Indonesia’s Scorpène And Plan To Acquire Four More Submarines
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... ubmarines/
19 May 2024
France Offers New ‘Scorpene Evolved’ Li-Ion Submarine To Indonesia
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... indonesia/
13 Oct 2023
Latest On Indonesia’s Scorpène And Plan To Acquire Four More Submarines
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... ubmarines/
19 May 2024
France Offers New ‘Scorpene Evolved’ Li-Ion Submarine To Indonesia
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... indonesia/
13 Oct 2023
Re: Project 75I - It Begins
When Plan A (Project 75I) does not work for whatever reason, where is the back up plan (more Scorpenes)? Key naval acquisition programs suffer from this myopia i.e. aircraft carriers, submarines, torpedoes. I really hope the contract for three additional Scorpene boats are signed soon after the elections.
Indonesia (and even Philippines) are being courted by Naval Group for Scorpenes with lithium ion batteries and F-21 torpedoes. But our bright Admirals at Naval HQ will wait for the mythical P-75I to come. This tamasha has gone on since 2008-09, when the original RFI was issued for the P-75I program. 16 years since that date and still nothing has happened.
Even the Scorpene boats we have in service now do not have modern torpedoes. Our submarine force is in an abysmal state of affairs.
Indonesia (and even Philippines) are being courted by Naval Group for Scorpenes with lithium ion batteries and F-21 torpedoes. But our bright Admirals at Naval HQ will wait for the mythical P-75I to come. This tamasha has gone on since 2008-09, when the original RFI was issued for the P-75I program. 16 years since that date and still nothing has happened.
Even the Scorpene boats we have in service now do not have modern torpedoes. Our submarine force is in an abysmal state of affairs.
Re: Project 75I - It Begins
https://idrw.org/bdl-and-drdo-forge-ahe ... velopment/
Takshak Torpedo is ready to be tested from a ship. Meant for submarines and ships. Got better range than Varunastra.
The said video from Bharat Shakti
Takshak Torpedo is ready to be tested from a ship. Meant for submarines and ships. Got better range than Varunastra.
The said video from Bharat Shakti
Re: Project 75I - It Begins
idrw isn't a reliable source. Let us avoid quoting it.
Re: Project 75I - It Begins
Pity, I was really hoping for the Type 212CD - the next frontier for stealth is going to be submarines shaped to counter active sonarRakesh wrote: ↑12 Mar 2024 05:34 We don't know which boat the Indian Navy is evaluating in Germany. I doubt it will be the Type 212, as that is classified tech. I am assuming it will be some variant of the Type 214. The rumour mill is that HDW is offering a larger variant of the Type 218SG, of which four have been purchased by Singapore. But it is speculation at this stage.
Re: Project 75I - It Begins
Reportedly it is a variant of the Type 214 customized for the Indian Navy. The non-magnetic hull of the Type 212 is classified tech and does not feature on the Type 214 (export variant of the Type 212). But the non-magnetic hull on the Type 212 cannot dive as deep as the hull on the Type 214. Thus the non-magnetic hull is a trade off, but it works for Germany and Italy as their Type 212s operate mainly in the littorals.
Re: Project 75I - It Begins
https://x.com/ang3lkenny/status/1796209348705735130 ---> Field evaluation trials with TKMS is successfully done.