Bharat Rakshak

Vivek

Good work

Please do not involve in long replies on your writings.

Your mindset is well understood. As a novelist and scenario builder, your views are your views only. A lot of people will differ. That does not require your explaining your thinking process.

Continue.....

Meanwhile, entertainment something similar to vivek's writing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKgOAdnZ7Aw


http://www.gametrailers.com/player/20931.html



I just love these dialogs:

"Get as far away as you can, they are coming from sky"
"For the glory of our nation"

THE NATIONAL AIRBORNE COMMAND CENTRE (NACC)
CALL SIGN: PATRIOT-EAGLE
SECURE TARMAC AREA, LOHEGAON AFS
0735 IST FRIDAY

“The empty berths in the naval harbours can be seen here…and in this image you can see them here…and here. Further, here in this…â€

Chinese ground forces 2007

China Naval Units 2007
[/img]

China Airforce Units 2007

Make war a little more real. Some human rights violations may be depicted. (From the official 62 war history: there were several instances of the chinese lining up the surviving and wounded indian soldiers at the outposts and shooting them point blank.)

Yeah true, I have read in the book "Dispatches from Kargil", that one of Pakistani captain's head was hung on tree by some Indian soldier, who was very frustrated. Though this was criticized by many superior officers.
That captain fought very bravely, even after losing all his men and running out of ammunitions he used his revolver to kill at least 5.
War takes away best of us. But, it depends on training and culture, the degree it has affect on us.

BTW, the people who have not watched this yet, check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PfH5g6qFSg

This reminds me, how many centuries it will take ourselves to have a women combat pilot.

A war always starts with handful of mad-men and get contributed by many thousands men and women.

And a / many chain reaction happens during war. Can be minimize but can not be made ZERO. When one see dying or dead there near and dear one (A soldier spends 11&1/2 months of a year with his unit members) sure he will lose control on self, and his bosses also steps aside, to keep the tempo of war. Should not happens but can not be stopped.

i Beg your pardon in which book . Till now what ever literature i have read about kargil i had not accounted for any such thing by Indian army as the footage was well covered by Indian media plus many bodies were returned backed to pakis and there is not even a single mentionlke this even by pakistanis and really desprate to know that where the heck those soilders found a tree in that snow capped, Rocky and marshy hills of Kargil to hang a head on it

this possible incident became a big rumor in IA (more of how army tales/ stories become legend .. any one from army background would understand what i am talking) c the Idea behind was:
--- soilders were demorilized, as they had to play by the rules (not cross LoC etc... PA troops taunting IA officer dead bodies in war zones... Lt Kalias body being received by troops etc)
--- It was the first Media war for IA, so such things could not be let out in press even if it happened
--- The actual rumor was that a PA SSG Cpt. was caught and the troops were really angry as they had taken casualties and this Capt was to be kept as POW and looked after... medically and physically.... one yound officer and his men got a lt high on his sprit and just out of a action they didnt know they will survive.... hanged the body (or head) to a tree near brigade HQ and the reporters were told not to take a pic other wise it will be there chance next time...

Its called Physiological-warfare... in broader terms ... no one can confirm that it happened or was just a rumor

If PA admits it its there failure and a big demoralizer for its troops

War takes away a lot from a soldier if you will hear the Para SF stories form Kashmir one can puke on some they r so gruesome in nature

As me mentions the book Dispatches from Kargil by Srinijoy Chaudary (IIRC) I have the book and have read it twice now. Gripping read.

They bought the head back and hung it from a base camp tree. It was reported to be the work of the Naga's. That incident earned them the nickname "head hunters" and respect and fear of friends and foes alike.

Book name: Dispatches from Kargil by Srinjoy Chowdhury
If I am not wrong, Kashmir state is one of major supplier of woods (read presence of trees)

P.S. I was anticipating such reply, no surprise. Because I would have done same if I were 7 to 10 year younger in age

Whatz going on, an attack by packeeez???

Vivek

I was wondering how come there is no mention of Chinese satellites or UAV's monitoring indian moves...

I think there are some Chinese souls above in space who are keeping an eye on us....

Deleted...

Sir well i am very well aware that Kashmir is biggets supplier of woods , but what i pointed out in my post was the hilltops where you don't find these woods those are typical snow ladden Mountain tops where Indian army had to climb and kill and cut the head of the pakistani captain and as per my knowldege goes you don't find trees in hill tops and
I am ex Navy aged 36 voluntery retired from armed forces . i am sorry if i offened who was 46

and well thanks for the name of the book , i will cetainly have a look at that and well i bet that these were pure rumors . Some of fellow friends saying that This is being first media war You could not see everything on TV . Well Barkha dutt did a splendid job to cover at the maximum and it can be presumed that such thing would not have come out of the army "During the war only ", But if this thng would had a bit of reality this could have been shown later and for sure .

and pakistan having bad face and some moral issues with Paki army .well if this would have been true then it would been have a blessing in disguise for then strengthing there claims over Human rights voilation over indian army.

INDIAN ARMY POSITIONS
THE HILLS NORTHEAST OF TAWANG
0735 IST FRIDAY

The day had started uneventfully for the area. The Chinese had not attacked even after the sun had come up over the region to reveal the beginning of the third day of the war. The bright sunlight and the blue skies now revealed the scale of the carnage of the bitter night battles that had been fought several hours ago between the Indian and Chinese forces. The horizon to the north was covered with innumerable black pillars of smoke rising into the cool air of the morning. The Indian artillery had started up again half an hour ago, and this time it had begun to hit the Chinese armour attempting to move across south on the road from Bum-La. Each pillar of smoke therefore in all probability represented a burning tank hulk. It was a pleasant sight for any Indian commander. But for Major Patel standing on the northernmost hill in Indian hands, with binoculars to his eyes, Chinese tanks were not the main concern. It was the Chinese infantry that had been moving through the hills all the way to the south through the night that was concerning him.

The only good thing was that the skies had cleared during the last few hours to allow the Indian unmanned air vehicles to get back up in the air and start looking for things. In addition to the Searcher-IIs now flying, the local Mountain Division in charge of the defence of Tawang was now deploying Neshant UAVs to go up and take a look. And the view wasn’t pretty. The real-time data showed the Chinese infantry moving south, using the thick forest cover-or what remained of it-to good advantage.

It also gave them far too much coverage than what the Artillery Command at Tawang would have desired, which was why their focus was on the Chinese tanks that were in the open just south of Bum-La. And the fire was immense and devastating. The weather may have been clear but the noise was not. There was a constant rumbling being felt as the man made thunder rained down on the Chinese. But Patel couldn’t have cared less at the moment. Less than five minutes ago one of his officers had spotted movement to the far north.

A few seconds after that first yell, so had he. And it had been a full three minutes ago when he had radioed the information to the Regimental HQ on the ridge just south of his position. He was still looking at the ant like movement of the Chinese using his binoculars when his radioman next to him closed his eyes as he listened intently into his headset and started nodding before calling out his CO. Major Patel walked back to him and took the R/T headset from his radioman after being told that it was his Regimental HQ calling for him. Patel continued to stare north at the white and brown peaks while he spoke with his Regimental CO.

“BLUE Leader…Be advised, we have Friendly-Air inbound. I say again, Friendly-Air inbound. ETA over AO in three minutes. Prepare the reception. Over and Out.â€

My friend, I was not arguing with you. I think I just mentioned the book's name in my first post, if you chose to read carefully you will find it.

My only point was, to support the other guy's comment that in war such things happens, so Vivek can write about them.

Offcourse, our army is much more disciplined than the Pakis, may be because of cultural difference, where in our culture we have been taught that every life is sacard and a lot must be put into thought before taking it out without any reason in contrast they are fed from child hood that Kafir's must be killed. And Chinese don't even have a god, I can understand how ruthless they can be in violating human rights.

As we already hear in news, the so called world's biggest proponent of human right America is violating human rights in very large number.

The highlight is we are living in Kalyug and no army or nation is Doodh ke Dhoole even some people from our army too does violate human rights. Off course, sometimes the story are exaggerated to make a case against the entire army.

If I could borrow someone's word "During extreme times, every civilization finds its way to negotiate compromises with its fundamental values."

The more early we learn to self criticize the better we become.

The remark about age I made just because I thought, generally at younger age we chose to overtly neglect the truth to make way to our patriotism.


Moreover, I believe in this forum everybody's has right to say his/her mind openly, that is whole idea, nobody can manipulate anyone's thinking to suit someone's thoughts. Only thing anybody can do is, they can present a rational counter argument.

I am way younger than you. Please don't address me as Sir.

P.S. Now I am going back to read vivek's new installment.

i have read the same account of such an inccident (though a little different).. When the Indian Troops had reached the top of their designated feature they had suffered so many losses that some of the soldiers starting bayonetting the dead Paki soldiers out of anger. One such soldier (dont know if it was a captain) beheaded a body and flung the head down the mountain side.. The Head came to rest on a tree someways down and remained there as a momento of sorts till the CO of the Battalion came to visit and was appalled.. No disciplinary action was taken.

Allus nice to see the Chinees become flied noodles

Good job vivek, By now the bombers might have reached ANC airspace, don't delay that. ... otherwise, suspense might kill us.

ol flied lice

It was not a Human right violation per se; the Naga's while charging up used their Dao to terrible effect in hand to hand combat; cutting off heads. One of these heads they bough back and put it in a tree.

No real desecreation of human bodies or anything. And Pakistan could not talk about it because at that point they were barely accepting the role of TSPA in Kargil. This news would have been a even bigger blow to their H&D than what we had already done.

I have a question for the experts. The Su-30 MKI Bars can track 16 targets and engage 4 simultaneously. Does this not translate into the fighter firing 4 missiles simultaneously at 4 different targets in one go, the radar guiding the missiles to their targets? The concept of force-multipliers surfaces dramatically.

If this is possible, the scenarios painted by vivek and the others go into an entirely different dimension.

Please enlighten...

Its been very long since the last morsel Vivek; could the hungry have some more?

hungry?? please make it starving. Some times I wonder whether this thread is like virtual concentration camp where brfites are kept on starvation ration by authorities (read Shankar/Vivek).
I also have empathy with Vivek et al as official work is priority 1, however I wish his boss becomes a member of BRF and then perhaps he will give Vivek more time to write.

Till we get our eagerly awaited installment read this:

Special: A pilot's moment of glory - http://in.rediff.com/news/2007/oct/31anil.htm

INDIAN ARMY POSITIONS
THE HILLS NORTHEAST OF TAWANG
0815 IST FRIDAY

The cold had extinguished all of the burning trees within minutes. The fresh snow was beginning to fall back on the charred landscape to again cover it with a fresh layer of white. The smoke and dust clouds had all but settled down. Except for the continuous, deep muffled thunder that everybody felt reverberate through their bodies, the valley was tranquil
again. Everything was back where it had been twenty minutes ago, including Major Patel who had recovered back to his earlier stance of looking through the binoculars towards the north.

The Chinese infantry movement to the south had been stopped yet again. Again they had suffered heavy losses, and to the frustration of the Indian commanders, they were preparing to move south again. As far as Major Patel was concerned, the Chinese were still licking their wounds. Their movement on both sides of the road had been stopped twenty minutes ago by a single Indian MIG-27 who had wiped out the eastern part of that manoeuvre with a single low level strike. That strike alone had left this unfortunate Chinese battalion stuck on a single, western side of the road. And they were waiting there now, collecting their wounded survivors from the eastern side of the north-south road.

They were right there, in front of him, but he could not touch them because he had no long-range firepower at his disposal. In this aspect the Chinese decision to bring tanks along in this inhospitable terrain was proving correct, since it was taking the attention of every Indian artillery gun in the sector. The Chinese tanks were taking losses, severe ones at that, but it also meant that they were helping give their infantry a free reign to the south.

And the tree cover doesn’t help much…Major Patel thought as he stared silently, trying to find out what the Chinese soldiers were doing. They were just sitting there, as far as he could tell. They should have been moving south. They were wasting valuable daylight time. It took Major Patel a second before the obvious came to him. They were waiting for something to happen. Waiting...but for what?

Patel removed his binoculars, picked up his INSAS rifle from the snow covered rocks and began to walk back down the slope towards the hand dug-trench that his radioman and his FAC had dug for themselves behind the cover of some trees. He called out to the radioman who got to work instantly, trying to tune into the frequencies for his radio to patch up with the Regimental HQ on the northern slope of the ridge behind this peak where the Indian defenses were located. He handed over the radio speaker to the Major as he kneeled down to pick it up. He was soon on the line with the Colonel.

“This is BLUE Leader. I am requesting an Intelligence Update on Chinese movements in sector Three-Five-Nine-Bravo. I have the commies in my sight but they are not moving. What the hell is going on? Overâ€

n /1 step forward 2 step back till they are hold more than 1962s.

that is too bad.

1 indian offensive capability's is nothings or limited.
2 why only fauji die plz burn ass of some babus too
3 than i think we have to show this thread to Our Babus.
how could they die if they don't change there attitude toward indian offensive capabilities.

Future wars with PLA and Pakis would be quite destructive, as we do not have fool proof Cruise and Ballistic missile Defence yet. Given proliferation of cruise missiles, unless complete air superiority is achieved and all the launching enemy bases are destroyed within 1000 mile radius from your line of defence, they would be able to knock out HQs and C4s.

I strongly believe Indian Defence forces have reached at a point, where they have enough numbers (1.2 to 1.5 million) to defeat PLA decisively( even though PLA is 2 million man army. PLA is also thinned out defending multiple fronts. So its not the number game but, operational doctrine, killing instinct of the commander and a great General who believes in winning and for him nothing matters less than a victory. Its also strategic assets in terms of ability to achieve complete air and naval dominanace, which would determine out come of the war.

As our previous naval chief has said " if our political leaders can give Indian Defence Forces another 15-20 yrs of conflict free time. the Indian navy would be a force to reckon with in a Super Power status."

Although PLA has numerical superiority, however it is hamstrung by Tech denial from west. India is catching up Chineses very fast, in terms of numbers game as well. I am hoping that LCA would turn out to be, what has been claimed so far i.e it would be able to out gun F16s and JF 17s.

If India chooses MRCA on its merits and with some fore-sight ( NOT BLACK MAILED BY COMMIES) and develops MCA in next 10-15 yrs to give an edge over J 10 and 11, it would be in good shape to defeat PLA with 50-55 squadrons and combo of 3-4 Aircraft carriers, for maritime blockade. In this high stake game of Brinkmanship, you need a strong political leader with strong nerves and steely resolve ( like Mrs Gandhi, Shastri and Ballabh Bhai Patel), who can withstand high stress and not blink easily.

In the above scenario, even though Chinese lost 3000 men however they if they are able to occupy your ground, history would call them victorious ( like 1962), no matter how vallantly and gallantly our forces have fought. History remembers winners, not loosers. So if our commanders have a little bit intelligemce,morality and dignity left ( by the way Chinese have no respect our Generals and commanders, but they have a lot of respect for our army men - from 1962), they would have factored that PLA would keep on coming back to you over and over again, unless they are broken up by aggressive postures and taking fight to them by convincingly defeating them. Like take out all their near by air force bases and runways, where from they can launch an attack, that would demoralize them enough to stop coming at you.

Regards,

DSingh.

If we start accurately depicting the PRC modernisation, suffice to say a lot of the assumptions in this thread wouldnt be true.

The PRCs modernisation is massive, and their strike capability has undergone a quantum shift upwards. Furthermore, any conflict with India and the PRC would be sure to shift the S-300 PMU series SAMs into theater, deploy its best technology etc. These are non trivial.

I support Viveks attempt to be sober in assessment, and in fact I would state that the scenario should also include India receiving hard knocks.

Victory or even a 1- all with PRC wont come cheap.

India, frankly- has fallen back in two key areas both of which matter as far as warfare with the PRC is concerned- artillery, and precision strike ability. Not to mention SAMs.

Second, this is not 1962- human wave attacks are passe. They will pound us with artillery and then more and then more and only then advance. They are not callous about casualties either.

I think it is not correct to compare an LCA to a JF-17 Bunder, and a J-10. The LCA is much much more, truly 4th gen maal. These two (JF-17 and J-10) are just a quickie rag-tag assembly job. In terms of tech and specs the LCA would have the ability to outgun and outmanouvre these two cartoons quite reasonably.

the Latest F-16 blocks and the Su-27s (J-11) are different birds, I have a lot of respect for.

JCage, Would you lead a thread on PRC military modernization covering all points coverage?

Thanks, ramana

Shankar, Vivek, Dilip , can you guys read up about the Indian presence in Antartica and using the background already available write up a story. I think you guys can whip up a story that would rival Alastair Maclean or Peter Benchley.

Google has many links that give the extensive cross currents involved. Just make the others guys some international entity eg "Federation" need to fire up the imagination of youngsters. The protoganist could be a researcher in Oceanography with a background in MARCOs or what ever. Or MARCO chap seconded to the expedition as a researcher. Think it over.

Ramana, I will once I get some pending work out of the way. Only thing is that BRF tends to swing like a pendulum and it will be hard to rein in all the guys from the "woe is me" stuff ..

Ramana,

We can start the thread..there will be plenty of guys ready to give in there inputs w.r.t to RC military modernization.

Thanks guys. Promise to ban the sky is falling types who post there.

Lets aim for highest quality stuff from opne sources. Yes there will be noise in first few iterations but it should settle down. More data and less hype.

Done sir! Mihir, can you start the thread ?

KAKADU NATIONAL PARK –NORTHERN TERRITORIES –AUSTRALIA

Hanif Khan was tired, almost exhausted by the time he finished disposing off the heavy Australian driver and then came back to position the LNG road tanker in the nearby Road Intersection . He was not much experienced in driving such heavy articulated truck and the controls were different particularly the location of the air brake and ignition. By the time he managed to start the heavy turbo charged natural gas fuelled V-12 engine the dawn was already breaking out over the eastern horizon . Slowly he reversed the tanker to the cross roads ,switched off the ignition, put on the parking brakes and then checked the piping diagram of the LNG tank once again before opening the drain valves all the way to the stops .
A jet of super cold fluid ejected under pressure and immediately formed a dense white cloud all around the tanker and the road way surrounding it ,as the moisture in the morning air froze on contact with evaporating liquid methane at a temperature as low as minus 160 deg C . A dense cloud bank started to form up reducing visibility on the Arnhem Highway to Darwin and first of the cars approaching the crossing braked hard as the visibility was cut to zero .

In the distance the convoy of articulated trucks carrying the 40 ft ISO containers containing the uranium oxide barrels slowed down and then stopped as the driver from the lead truck leaped out of the cab to check the road condition causing the snarl up . The armed police escort accompanying him switched on the dashboard VHF set to report the position to mine authorities.
Hanif khan watched the movement inside the cab of uranium oxide carrying truck, saw the driver coming out of the cab to explore the problem on road and knew his time has come ,as he quietly lit his butane lighter and set the escaping natural gas vapor on fire .
The result was dramatic. A bright red and black fire ball erupted all along the highway about 500 mtrs long and 30 mtrs high ,like a giant flame thrower ,covering the uranium oxide convoy and their escort vehicles in a wall of fire .
Everyone died in a matter of minutes and the truck fuel tanks started exploding one by one .Hanif khan once again quickly closed the LNG outlet valve of the tanker and the fire died down quickly. He had about 30 minutes to remove some of the yellow cake barrels from the container onto his four wheel drive truck and then quickly escape to the un inhabited shores of Northern territories ,where an Iranian Submarine was supposed to be waiting for the pick up