Bharat Rakshak

it is however known in public that indian commandoes/hostage rescue people have done courses in israel.

Kashmiris are our own people, so we would prefer judicious use of firepower resulting in minimum loss of life AND property.
But I do agree that we need to find ways to avoid 6 hr gun battles with 2-and-a-half terrorists.

I wonder if there is a contradiction in what you have said.

Let me explain.

The need for 6 hour battles with 2.5 terrorists is precisely to pin them down and tire them and make them exhaust their supplies of ammunition and food so that collateral damage is minimized.

They hide inside a building. Israelis would fire a PGM through the window and demolish the building and Allah help anyone nearby. The Indian army/paramilitaries suorround the building, evacuate the area and the "overnight gun battle" is part of the plan.

Jaeger wrote:

Sure but are we using those tactics because we have no other choice? In a lot of these battles, one or two guys manage to escape, we take casualties, it gets long tiring and bloody expensive in terms of army/para lives and civil property.

What if we had some sort of sleeping gas like the one the Russkies used in the Moscow theatre? Or a severe skin irritant? This might border on chem warfare, but it would be very limited use and tightly controlled. If the Army is evacuating the surroundings anyway, this can work.
This is not THE solution, but A solution. I'm sure the Army can come up with 50 more, if provided the $ and freedom to improvise.

vksac, wrt to ur last line I have long proposed DPSA exercises with 10 x F15-I on a mock nuclear plant constructed on the pokhran range in full view of media cameras.

vksac, wrt to ur last line I have long proposed DPSA exercises with 10 x F15-I on a mock nuclear plant constructed on the pokhran range in full view of media cameras.

On anther note: "Cope India 2004... blah blah... Shahbaz 1978... blah blah... we won... blah blah... we beat Israel AF in 1973... we are sword of Pakistan... blah blah... we're the BEST. And when Thundaar comes, we will blow MKIs out of sky. And then F/A 22. And then destroy Israel. DIE INFIDELS DIE." I've figured it out; they're actually masturbating when they talk like this.

The Indian army/paramilitaries suorround the building, evacuate the area and the "overnight gun battle" is part of the plan.

panic in pindi at the words "F15I have landed in pune" the entire TSPAF is going to be scrambled for months everytime someone breaks wind at any major iaf base.

Wouldn't that send the exactly wrong signals to another country India considers a "friend" but Israel considers an enemy?

And as for you, please stop posting in red. I am tired of editing your posts! Also please use the "quote" feature, when replying to another poster.

Err this thread is about Cope India.

What if we had some sort of sleeping gas like the one the Russkies used in the Moscow theatre? Or a severe skin irritant? This might border on chem warfare, but it would be very limited use and tightly controlled. If the Army is evacuating the surroundings anyway, this can work.
This is not THE solution, but A solution. I'm sure the Army can come up with 50 more, if provided the $ and freedom to improvise.

This is really about Cope India 2004, but it's a Pakistani analysis of that exercise.

http://www.caps.org.pk/Papers/July2004.htm

Thiruvananthapuram, A 100-strong Indian Air Force (IAF) contingent left here Monday for South Africa for multi-nation war games that will be witnessed by visiting Indian President A.P.J. Abdul Kalam.


Exercise Golden Eagle comes in the wake of the hugely successful Exercise Cooperative Cope Thunder 04-01 in Alaska in July during which IAF pilots matched their skills with their counterparts from the US and NATO air forces and came out with flying colours.

"Our participation in Exercise Cooperative Cope Thunder 04-01 brought laurels to the country, thanks to the high precision displayed by the fighter pilots in penetrating air defences and scoring direct hits on ground targets in the mountain ranges," the air chief, Air Chief Marshal S. Krishnaswamy, had said after the contingent returned.


Air forces from the Asia-Pacific and NATO countries such as Japan, Singapore, Malaysia, Canada, Germany and Britain too participated.
Early this year, a similar exercise was conducted by the IAF at Gwalior, where the US Air Force participated with F-15Cs and the combat skills of Indian pilots drew much appreciation.

by Ken Kula


The Indian Air Force made a historic leap across the Atlantic Ocean during June, July and August, 2004. Six Jaguar deep strike jets, a pair of new IL-78 tankers and 2 IL-76 support transports, along with over 200 personnel hopscotched halfway around the world from their bases in India to arrive at Alaska’s Eielson AFB, near Fairbanks in early July. Their mission was to participate in the Cooperative Cope Thunder 04-01 exercise, the annual summertime military flying exercise that combines aircraft, crews and observers, this year from 10 countries.

The amount of time spent in the air to reach Alaska from India was staggering. Eight stops in Qatar, Egypt, Italy, Portugal and Canada were required, totaling 35 hours in the air for each jet (not to mention the humans!), just to arrive for the exercise. The route of flight stretched almost 20,000 kilometers, or close to 12,500 miles. The return trip was to be a mirror image back across the Atlantic Ocean. Finishing the trip by continuing around the world was preferred, but wasn’t an option due to some technical issues (distance) as well as poor weather conditions across the Pacific Ocean during their flights, according to a Technical Officer in charge of planning part of the deployment. The average flight time per leg was approximately four hours long. In all, the deployed unit will be away from India almost two months, just for a two-week Cope Thunder training period.


India’s Air Force exploited a new capability during the Cope Thunder deployment to Alaska this summer. Its’ new IL-78 tankers, modeled after the Russian IL-76 transport, have only been operational for one year. This is the first time that India has operated air refuelers in international airspace, and this capability allowed for unusually long flight legs (4 to 5 hours and longer) of the Jaguar strike jets. On each wing is a hose-and-reel system allowing a pair of fighters/bombers to refuel at the same time.


Undoubtedly, there will be a detailed review of their first international deployment by the Indian Air Force, after their contingent arrives home by mid-August. After that, the possibility of more Indian summers in Alaska will be explored.

The author notes the extraordinary access granted to the Atlantic Flyer for gathering information and photos for this article. Specifically, thanks to USAF Major Brenda Campbell, Director of Public Affairs/Elmendorf AFB, and Indian Air Force Tactical Team Leader Group Captain S. J. Nanodkar and his staff for their time and willingness to discuss their deployment with me.