Terror Attacks in Mumbai

shynee · Post by **shynee** » 27 Nov 2008 10:19

TOI ticker has the following. Anyone else reporting something similar ?

"Lashkar terrorist from Pakistan arrested in Mumbai; IB says terrorists came from pakistan"

vishal · Post by **vishal** » 27 Nov 2008 10:20

Nariman House being evacuated. Israeli govt. voices concern regarding safety of it's citiziens.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 27 Nov 2008 10:20

Anything connected to this

PM dials 100 to save India

Ashok K Mehta

It is difficult to keep count of the number of times Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has termed Maoism as the most serious internal threat to the country but been able to do so little to counter it. Last Sunday he was reminding India’s top policemen of this, many of whom have painted a red corridor from Pashupati in Nepal to Tirupati in Andhra Pradesh. At the recent SAARC summit in Colombo, he called terrorism the single biggest threat to the stability of South Asia. After every terrorist strike in the country he promises to deal with the perpetrators of the dastardly crimes but is perpetually in denial (“we are not soft on terror”).

While exhibiting rare political will in snatching the path-breaking 123 India-US civil nuclear deal from the jaws of defeat, he’s been unable to show any result in meeting threats to internal security. After the September attacks in Delhi, Parliament sanctioned mundane additions like more police stations and CCTVs.

In a miraculous turn of events, last Sunday he actually ordered the establishment of a high-powered task force under the National Security Adviser to evolve a plan in 100 days to address the emerging challenges to internal security. The decision is politically well timed and long overdue in a country which is the oldest victim of terrorism and where more lives have been lost tolerating the scourge than in fighting five wars on our borders. India’s main challenge is from within and not from across the LoC or LAC.

Shivani · Post by **Shivani** » 27 Nov 2008 10:20

Rahul Shukla wrote:Pakistan is begging for another Parakaram. Situation is getting out of control in Pakistan and they have no choice but to hit India to get a response out of GOI to deflect pressure on their western front. But as the old saying goes, be careful what you wish for...

Yes, let us put our forces near borders and then de-escalate after doing a whole lot of nothing. They are just asking for it.

I can't understand how the Pakistanis have recovered so quickly from 'Operation' parakram. They suffered such heavy losses in that operation, and now they are back taunting us.

Sometimes you just have to admire the sheer willpower and focus of your enemy.

Vivek_A · Post by **Vivek_A** » 27 Nov 2008 10:21

The news reports said he took one to the head. And the type of vest he was seen wearing is unlikely to provide enough protection against round from an AK-47 at close quarters.

disha · Post by **disha** » 27 Nov 2008 10:22

Muppalla wrote:Terror attacks: BJP says it's time to rise above politics

NEW DELHI: The BJP, which has been attacking the Congress over its handling of the internal security situation, on Thursday said it will refrain
from being critical of the government at this juncture in view of the Mumbai terror strikes which it termed as a "national crisis".

BJP chief Rajnath Singh spoke to party Prime Ministerial candidate L K Advani this morning over phone from Jaipur and decided "not go critical" of the government on the issue "in this time of crisis", the party said.

The party also asked the people to rise above political affiliations and stand by the security forces in their fight against terror.

"It is a time of national crisis. The country has been challenged. It is time for us to rise above politics. There is no government side or opposition side. Our top leadership has decided to stand by all steps to defeat the forces who challenge our sovereignty," BJP Vice President Mukthar Abbas Naqvi said.

If the pigs came directly from Karachi, does that mean Pakistan has declared war on India?

Rahul Shukla · Post by **Rahul Shukla** » 27 Nov 2008 10:23

Aditya_V wrote:If these guys came by sea did the Navy/ coastguard make it a rule that no ship/vessel/Agosta 90B submarine can leave India's exclusive economic zone without being searched. DId we start such a search last night or has the mother craft gotten away last night??

The mothership was reported to be a fishing trawler. My guess is that by now they are either safely docked in home port (Karachi) or they have dumped all their gear in the sea and are fishing for show. Coastguard can search all the boats it wishes to, but it is too late. How long would it take for a trawler to sail from let's say 50 km from Mumbai coastline to Karachi?

CNN says Indian intel received information and was focused on securing movie-theatres and shopping-malls.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 27 Nov 2008 10:23

Vilasrao Deshmukh has confirmed that boats came from Karachi.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 27 Nov 2008 10:24

Advani live on HT now.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 27 Nov 2008 10:25

9 pigs are arrested, are these local pigs or from across the border ?

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 27 Nov 2008 10:25

Muppalla wrote:Advani live on HT now.

Can you please condense his message ? I am interested in his response.

Mathew G · Post by **Mathew G** » 27 Nov 2008 10:26

disha wrote:
Muppalla wrote:Terror attacks: BJP says it's time to rise above politics

NEW DELHI: The BJP, which has been attacking the Congress over its handling of the internal security situation, on Thursday said it will refrain
from being critical of the government at this juncture in view of the Mumbai terror strikes which it termed as a "national crisis".

BJP chief Rajnath Singh spoke to party Prime Ministerial candidate L K Advani this morning over phone from Jaipur and decided "not go critical" of the government on the issue "in this time of crisis", the party said.

The party also asked the people to rise above political affiliations and stand by the security forces in their fight against terror.

"It is a time of national crisis. The country has been challenged. It is time for us to rise above politics. There is no government side or opposition side. Our top leadership has decided to stand by all steps to defeat the forces who challenge our sovereignty," BJP Vice President Mukthar Abbas Naqvi said.
If the pigs came directly from Karachi, does that mean Pakistan has declared war on India?

According to this link, Manorama News claims that Intelligence Agencies briefed the boats came from Karachi. Don't know their sources.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Nov 2008 10:27

Thanks Vivek-A. So another thing is to get some real kevlar vests and not rely on the DRDO BS stuff. No wonder Late Insp Sharma didnt wear that gizmo for it would have alerted anyone.

Yeah waht is LKA saying for benefit of those who dont have that TV.

Aryavarta · Post by **Aryavarta** » 27 Nov 2008 10:27

Boats from Karachi is declaration of War. I want Sukhois pounding Karachi before the sun sets today.

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 27 Nov 2008 10:27

ramana wrote:So LKA got the IB briefing. That means the GOI knew quite a few hours ago the magnitude of the problem and summoned all resources.

I saw a few pics of the BPJs on Indian police. Are they for real or jsut padded vests. The reason why I am asking is that the ATS chief took three bullets even after wearing one. Maybe they are not for combat rounds but for shotgun and hand gun rounds. Were the pigs firing military grade ammo?

ATS chief wore different BPJ (camo type), dunno whether it can protect from 7.62mm rifle bullets or Grenade splinters..

You can see LKA live on NDTV

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 27 Nov 2008 10:28

Guys:

I repeat myself. Its all political now. This is an all out TSP attack. We know India doesn't have the wherewithal to do what it takes to get TSP, but it remains to be seen of Unkil will protect TSP or will he bring TSP to justice.

shynee · Post by **shynee** » 27 Nov 2008 10:28

They are still suspects according to the Dy CM. Cannot speculate whether they are indeed piglets

Nayak wrote:9 pigs are arrested, are these local pigs or from across the border ?

disha · Post by **disha** » 27 Nov 2008 10:28

Rahul Shukla wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:If these guys came by sea did the Navy/ coastguard make it a rule that no ship/vessel/Agosta 90B submarine can leave India's exclusive economic zone without being searched. DId we start such a search last night or has the mother craft gotten away last night??
The mothership was reported to be a fishing trawler. My guess is that by now they are either safely docked in home port (Karachi) or they have dumped all their gear in the sea and are fishing for show. Coastguard can search all the boats it wishes to, but it is too late. How long would it take for a trawler to sail from let's say 50 km from Mumbai coastline to Karachi?

CNN says Indian intel received information and was focused on securing movie-theatres and shopping-malls.

Guys, India is the *largest* peninsula in the world. That means crores of km of coast line and crores of sq. km. of EZ. Finding even a big ship is like finding needle under several tons of hay stack.

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 27 Nov 2008 10:29

anishns wrote:CNN reportedly had some British Lawyer on phone talking to their Anchor...claiming that he has been holed inside his room for over 14 hours. Shouldn't all phones, cell phones, electricity be blacked out in the hotel when you are undertaking an operation of such intensity????

Hell you see that even in Hollywood movies!

A co-ordinated response to these attacks requires maturity on the part of the authorities. Did we see the local beat pandu use some tape to cordon the areas where these attacks were going on? Did we see the PM, HM or the Maha CM talk in an assuring tone to the people of the nation. Did we see the Commissionar of Mumbai Police or Any officer of the armed forces talk to the people assuring they are in control of the situation and advising media and general public on Dos and Donts as regards approaching these attack venues and how to cover these incidents?

In all of these what are the people to do but lean on one another for tit bits of information. I fear that today most indians have learnt how to fend for themselves in the aftermath of such attacks. Imagine a future where they realize that they may also have to act premptively to protect their life and property. That would be the day the elephant would be truly awake and aware of being an elephant.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Nov 2008 10:29

Matthew, A paraphrase of the Malayalam link please.

rgsrini · Post by **rgsrini** » 27 Nov 2008 10:30

CNN watch: Uday Bhaskar (Terrorism analyst from Delhi) is confirming that the terrorists or "militants as he would like to call them". Who is this Uday Bhaskar any way?

However, he does point the needle of suspiscion towards LET pigs, even while he is constantly referring to domestic capabilities.

CNN is also talking about the security arrangement and response. They are talking about poor preparation to deal with such situations, lapse in security arrangement, not enough assistance to the injured after they come out of the hotel, confusion in obtaining information etc.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 27 Nov 2008 10:31

Rahul Shukla wrote:

The mothership was reported to be a fishing trawler. My guess is that by now they are either safely docked in home port (Karachi) or they have dumped all their gear in the sea and are fishing for show. Coastguard can search all the boats it wishes to, but it is too late. How long would it take for a trawler to sail from let's say 50 km from Mumbai coastline to Karachi?

CNN says Indian intel received information and was focused on securing movie-theatres and shopping-malls.

Rahul I totally agree now its way too late. But the question did anyone think of it last night. I am just praying to God that the mother ship has been caught

vishal · Post by **vishal** » 27 Nov 2008 10:32

Time to firebomb Rawalpindi back into the Stone Age and scrap the Indus Water Treaty. But even the latter will be far beyond the will our politicians can muster up.

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 27 Nov 2008 10:33

disha wrote:Guys, India is the *largest* peninsula in the world. That means crores of km of coast line and crores of sq. km. of EZ. Finding even a big ship is like finding needle under several tons of hay stack.

According to this logic, then, we have two choices, don't we:

a) Disband the Coastguard
b) Expand the Coastguard

Statements like "Finding even a big ship is like finding needle" is something this country cannot afford.

Otherwise what is the use of these service, patrolling for the sake of patrolling and hoping they catch something by chance?!!

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 27 Nov 2008 10:33

rgsrini wrote: CNN is also talking about the security arrangement and response. They are talking about poor preparation to deal with such situations, lapse in security arrangement, not enough assistance to the injured after they come out of the hotel, confusion in obtaining information etc.

Totally agree on this, in the morning at home I saw rediff posting images of injured being carried to hospitals on push-carts.

Emergency response totally sucks.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 27 Nov 2008 10:33

Advani is not taking any potshots. He says that he and PM will go together to Mumbai after the ops are over. He said the following:
1) As per experts this whole ops take atleast 2 months of planning
2) This is not something like SIMI types
3) This is worst than 1993

The Q & A session is still going on.

kit · Post by **kit** » 27 Nov 2008 10:33

A part of Die Hard already enacted.Some elements of the Mumbai police and ATS also seems to be involved. ISI, D company and LeT all have their imprints in this attack.The saddest and worst part is the involvement of Indians , that too security personnel in abetting this.Some people would even sell their .. anyway .Will a total war on Pakistan solve this problem ? I doubt it.What about a thermonuclear weapon on top of karachi and islamabad ? Sometimes a sledge hammer might be needed to kill a mouse if you dont have anything else or any other resources with you ! Extremists are already recruiting large numbers of muslim youths from kerala state.(The kerala police has found out this has been going on for years under their noses) They are reported to get military grade training in fitness, weaponry and advanced communication systems.The funding.. believe it or not ..one of their 'centers' in kerala are receiving more than a lakh of US dollars every WEEK ! from an erstwhile 'friendly' gulf country.
India is indeed a Soft target.I would expect the next attack in kerala !

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 27 Nov 2008 10:34

I am sorry to hear about the loss of lives.

It seems like a platoon level attack by LET. They attacked police stations and hospitals first then they holed up inside hotels.
Objective is to terrorize Indians. That is clear. But what immediate benefits are they (Islamists) going to gain from this attack? Some people got killed. Some people got scared. OK. I got that. But Indian war making capacity is there. And aggravating a group of people with this much weapon up their sleeve is not a good policy from the point of view of Islamists. In my opinion, very stupid move on part of Islamists. As the saying goes, "Vinaash kale viparit buddhi".

anishns · Post by **anishns** » 27 Nov 2008 10:34

BijuShet wrote:
anishns wrote:CNN reportedly had some British Lawyer on phone talking to their Anchor...claiming that he has been holed inside his room for over 14 hours. Shouldn't all phones, cell phones, electricity be blacked out in the hotel when you are undertaking an operation of such intensity????

Hell you see that even in Hollywood movies!
A co-ordinated response to these attacks requires maturity on the part of the authorities. Did we see the local beat pandu use some tape to cordon the areas where these attacks were going on? Did we see the PM, HM or the Maha CM talk in an assuring tone to the people of the nation. Did we see the Commissionar of Mumbai Police or Any officer of the armed forces talk to the people assuring they are in control of the situation and advising media and general public on Dos and Donts as regards approaching these attack venues and how to cover these incidents?

In all of these what are the people to do but lean on one another for tit bits of information. I fear that today most indians have learnt how to fend for themselves in the aftermath of such attacks. Imagine a future where they realize that they may also have to act premptively to protect their life and property. That would be the day the elephant would be truly awake and aware of being an elephant.

BijuShet, if I remember you're also from Mumbai. Dude I feel the pain in your words personally.
This is indeed a very sad day!

vishal · Post by **vishal** » 27 Nov 2008 10:34

Times Now reporting US intel officials were present at the Taj at the time of the attack and might have been injured or killed.

disha · Post by **disha** » 27 Nov 2008 10:34

sunilUpa wrote:
ramana wrote:So LKA got the IB briefing. That means the GOI knew quite a few hours ago the magnitude of the problem and summoned all resources.

I saw a few pics of the BPJs on Indian police. Are they for real or jsut padded vests. The reason why I am asking is that the ATS chief took three bullets even after wearing one. Maybe they are not for combat rounds but for shotgun and hand gun rounds. Were the pigs firing military grade ammo?
ATS chief wore different BPJ (camo type), dunno whether it can protect from 7.62mm rifle bullets or Grenade splinters..

From Rediff news ...

10:30 AM: The number of policemen killed has gone up to 16. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh [Images] will address the nation after 7 PM after the Cabinet meeting. The Maharashtra state Cabinet will meet at 2 PM.

Brave souls. BPJ does not protect injuries from close quarters.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 27 Nov 2008 10:35

vishal wrote:Time to firebomb Rawalpindi back into the Stone Age and scrap the Indus Water Treaty. But even the latter will be far beyond the will our politicians can muster up.

Thread is to gather the action on the ground. Secular responses and BR wetdreams are not allowed.

Maafi in advance.

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 27 Nov 2008 10:35

Nayak wrote:
Muppalla wrote:Advani live on HT now.
Can you please condense his message ? I am interested in his response.

The strikes must planned for months.
Nothing like we have seen in past.
States and Central are not doing enough
Coordinated response needed

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 27 Nov 2008 10:35

sunilUpa wrote:[
ATS chief wore different BPJ (camo type), dunno whether it can protect from 7.62mm rifle bullets or Grenade splinters..

pradeepe · Post by **pradeepe** » 27 Nov 2008 10:35

Singha wrote:the TOI print edition today has 25% of its front page devoted to this incident.

followed right below by a big article that more armymen are being investigated by the ATS for the world famous malegaon case.

equal-equal 50:50 onlee.

must have been direct orders from their political handlers to frontpage
this minor news (not even serious investigations just a 'theory' from
a unnamed 'source' in ATS) to get the desired 'balance'

Exactly the same spread in DC. Top half page Mumbai terror, bottom half malegaon case. Equal equal complete.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 27 Nov 2008 10:36

rgsrini wrote:anishns.
Hell you see that even in Hollywood movies!
Stop sensationalizing everything. We Indians are idiots and we don't know how to manage a terrorist attack. We will certainly learn from Hollywood movies next time.
Better yet, we will call you from a pay phone (after blocking all the cell phones).

May be they are allowing cell phones to listen in on the conversation between the terrorists and the handlers. If my foolish brain can come up with one such possibility, may be there are several others that we haven't thought about.

Gently does it...

The present attack is new in that (afaik) it is the first time that there have been coordinated fedayeen-style attacks on any city anywhere. We have known for some time that some of these groups have declared war on India, but this is the first time they have actually put boots on the ground as it were. This is 'too military' for the police, and too 'urban guerilla' for the military, neither of whom is trained for this. In any case, it will be an extraordinarily tough and complex and unprecedented problem to tackle, when our own cities (as opposed to, say, other people's cities that we are occupying, a la the movie Battle of Algiers) come under internal attack.

Right now, we need to accept and absorb the setback that the enemy has dealt us, and look to the professionalism of our security forces and their ability to think through and implement ways in which to adapt and eventually prevail. We can't expect any kind of instant results or gratification and while everyone feels frustration, we should discipline ourselves to not say anything that causes discord, both in what we say and the manner of the saying.

This is one test of our patriotism--can we keep a check on our utterances for our country's sake, while discussing constructively?

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 27 Nov 2008 10:36

Please don't use emotions, if we are going to war we might as prepare for it and then go for one, Not like parakaram where we had a big egg on our face.

Ask yourself this question first before talking about war. Are you ready to die in Nuclear attack or do you want live with terror attacks.
I for one am ready to die in a nuclear war in a fight to the finish, cause for me it is either we survive or they survive but I suspect not enough of my countrymen are ready for this option for us to exercise it.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Nov 2008 10:37

C. UdayBhaskar is a retired Commodore in the IN. He was Deputy Drector of IDSA the Govt think tank. And he is more jingo than us and reads BRF first thing in the morning. So take it for what its worth. I think Comdr rank is just below a Rear Adm.

gauravjkale · Post by **gauravjkale** » 27 Nov 2008 10:38

3 am (IST) home minister said the NSG should have reached mumbai. what took them so long to reach Taj or trident????
traffic in mumbai is not that bad.

amol.p · Post by **amol.p** » 27 Nov 2008 10:39

Dear All,

AL THE TERRORISTS ARE LOCAL GUYS:

1] No person coming from pakistan or karachi will know excat locations of hotels and station
2] As per the attack carried out the drove on mumbai roads and went till vile parle, borivali...how come they know mumbai roads.
3] i have styed in mumbai for 2 yrs and I too dnot know how to drive to these different locations
4] When they got down from bozts at coloba they spoke in hindi with fishermen
5] These guys told that they have come from kerala
6] HOW COME THESE GUYS DONT HAVE BEARDS IF THEY COME FROM PAKISTAN

THESE ALL ARE INDIA MUSLIMS FROM MUMBAI AND SURROUNDINGS