Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Raja · Post by **Raja** » 29 Nov 2008 17:19

The Pakistani High Commissioner in USA was just on CNN and claimed that it is extremists in India who launched this attacks because of the Pakistani peace overtures that were made 4 days ago.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 29 Nov 2008 17:19

Mumbai attacks: PM meets chiefs of defence services
29 Nov 2008, 1524 hrs IST, PTI
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NEW DELHI: As the operation to flush out terrorists in Mumbai got over, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh held a meeting with the chiefs of defence
services and intelligence agencies to discuss the unprecedented attacks and ways to prevent such recurrences.

Singh called the meeting to review the security situation in view of the attacks for which the terrorists had apparently come via the sea.

Defence Secretary Vijay Singh, Home Secretary Madhukar Gupta, Army Chief General Deepak Kapoor, Naval Chief Admiral Sureesh Mehta, Air Force Chief Air Marshal Homi Major, Coast Guard Director General Admiral R F Contractor and Intelligence Bureau Chief P C Haldar were also present at the meeting.

Prior to this, Home Minister Shivraj Patil also held a meeting with top officials of various forces and agencies, at which a decision was taken to step up security measures along the coastline.

The meeting was attended by the Home Secretary, Naval Chief, the Coast Guard Chief, Army Vice Chief Lt Gen M L Naidu and Special Secretary (Internal Security) in the Home Ministry M L Kumawat.

More chai-biskoot sessions. The decision will be on how many more pandoos can do daytime patrolling on the coast harassing the fishermen community/general public.

Hilarious, these are nitwits we are supposed to trust our lives with. As usual it was NSG/MARCOS/Army which saved our collective bacon. BTW, hopefully they sort out why does Army need 24 eggs.

adarshp · Post by **adarshp** » 29 Nov 2008 17:19

All.. I am confused....

What is the terrorist count?

9 killed, 1 captured or 14 killed, 1 captured? DDM is reporting different figures.. Were there 3 killed in Taj today, or 3 in all at Taj over 3 days and the final one killed today? Were there 10 in all in Taj or just 3. separating facts from all the crap the DDM reports is becoming difficult.

p_saggu · Post by **p_saggu** » 29 Nov 2008 17:20

Shiv-ji
Not the cell, its what is hanging below.
It looks like a NVG with the unocular sight in front and protective eye shades at the back. It will be tough aiming a weapon wearing this because the aiming eye of the soldier is now displaced to the center. Maybe the weapons have laser target designators - again undesirable because these can give the soldier's position away from the laser spot.

Raju · Post by **Raju** » 29 Nov 2008 17:20

they are preparing dossier to show to the 'international community'*.

*International community - chai, biskut aur pastry.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 29 Nov 2008 17:21

Is there more to this than what we known

K R Ramamoorthy can't thank his lucky stars enough. One of the unlucky guests at the Taj Hotel, that fateful evening, Ramamoorthy stared at certain death, and survived.

When a terrorist knocked on his door, he hardly knew what lay in store for him. After barging into his room, the terrorists asked him, "Are you a brahmin? Your name sounds south Indian."

The seventy-six year old banker tried to hoodwink the terrorist and told him that he was a school teacher and hailed from Bangalore. But the terrorist who spoke fluent Hindi and English turned out to be smarter than he had imagined.

"How can a school teacher stay in a posh hotel like this? Who paid your rent?" he asked.

And without waiting for Ramamoorthy's reply, the terrorist hit him, before declaring with a chilling finality, "You are duping us."

It was then that Ramamoorthy saw the second terrorist. He had five employees of the hotel with him. The employees had their hands and mouths tied, and were crying. But the terrorists showed no emotion and continued to speak with each other 'quite jovially'.

Help finally came at 6 am on Thursday morning. Ramamoorthy saw a fire engine ladder outside his room. He waved his hand to the driver of the fire tender, who urged him to pull-down the curtains and tie them to the window. He then signaled Ramamoorthy to come out through the window.

While he was climbing on to the ladder, he saw a woman outside (the window) of her fifth floor room. They both got down with the help of the firefighters, and ran to safety. Their ordeal of over eight hours was finally over.

A relieved Ramamoorthy then called his wife and told her that he was safe.

The non-executive part-time chairman of ING Vysya Bank [Get Quote], however, rues that he had to leave his luggage and mobile phone in the hotel room.

http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/nov/29m ... ed-him.htm

sampat · Post by **sampat** » 29 Nov 2008 17:21

Nayak wrote:Why is there a silence from the politicos/HFLs/WKK/Amnesty/HR ?

They are working overtime in figuring out how to spin it. If they speak too soon with all unknown facts, spinning later will become more
challenging. However, it shouldn't deter them as they are in the habbit of pushing their factless bullshit by shouting in unison and repeated telecasts.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 29 Nov 2008 17:21

chetak wrote:
Dilbu wrote: While it is important to raise more forces like these in the metros, that in itself will not be sufficient if we don't have the political will to back it up. What use is a missile or SF behind enemy lines if you don't have the willpower to use it? India lacks leadership as much as any other resource in our fight against terror.

Great!
Should warm the cockles of Raj Thackerays' heart
Marathi manoos NSG.

Everyone on this forum knows that raising a unit like the NSG or Marcos is easier said than done. Will the Maharashtra government have the patience to keep up the expenditure on training for years between terrorist incidents (if only we had years between them) and will they be able to resist the members of this unit becoming palace guards or status symbols? Will they have their own, dedicated airlift capability to reach areas like Pune, Nashik and Nagpur if the need arises?

Valid points all - and it reminds me of a statement made on TV yesterday

In Indis security is a state subject - therefore the politicians haiving chai biskoot in the Lok Sabha can see a terorist act in Gujarat and say - "Oh Gujarat state problem" and a terorist act in Maharashtra and say "Maharatra state problem"

In many states the polcie forces are used as personal servants of our ministers.

How the hell will security be taken care of when teh central government does not give a damn and the state govt spends peanuts on their police force whom they consider their personal chowkidars?

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 29 Nov 2008 17:22

Girlie-boy should be grilled for all the details, then shot and left to die. Next day issue a statement that he committed suicide and is en-route to meet his 72 raisins.

I fear if he is kept alive, the kandle kissing brigade will ensure that he is served authentic indian biryani.

Raju · Post by **Raju** » 29 Nov 2008 17:23

adarshp wrote:All.. I am confused....

there is no need to be very confused. A lot of them have run away without getting cornered in end-games like the jokers (jihadis) at Taj Palace and Nariman House have got themselves into. A ticket to surefire houridom.

An SSG major if indeed in charge of the operation would have fired two shots and lead the boys into the hotels and soon after found a pretext to quit the scene leaving the girly-boys to themselves.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 29 Nov 2008 17:24

experts, ID the weapon please.

vishal · Post by **vishal** » 29 Nov 2008 17:25

p_saggu wrote:Shiv-ji
Not the cell, its what is hanging below.
It looks like a NVG with the unocular sight in front and protective eye shades at the back. It will be tough aiming a weapon wearing this because the aiming eye of the soldier is now displaced to the center. Maybe the weapons have laser target designators - again undesirable because these can give the soldier's position away from the laser spot.

Need not be the case. I read somewhere that spec ops guys are trained to fire up their laser sights only when approaching the target, keep it on for a few seconds (maybe even a couple of seconds), line up their target, shoot and switch it off. Much like a sub commander completeing a 360 degree sweep with a periscope so fast it would make our head spin.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Nov 2008 17:25

it seems to be real life people outside of hollywood movies and PC games do not fight and move with helmet mounted nvg kit. they cant aim and fire the weapon anyway. seen pix of us army patrols in iraq having this thing.
maybe they stop, look, fold it up and move again during cat and mouse games.

the above rifle has been id'ed earlier as a SIG 550.
http://hpbimg.i-e-a.de/6-24X72%20mit%20 ... 40%20N.jpg

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 29 Nov 2008 17:26

Raju wrote:they are preparing dossier to show to the 'international community'*.

*International community - chai, biskut aur pastry.

Will the common cowering SDRE get a look into this 'sacred' dossier containing evidence religiously gathered and kept over the centuries or is it only for the eyes of 'wurld leederz'? May be we should send it along with the MIP in Chandrayaan-2 to be placed in the moon for ever so when next time there is an attack, we can point to the moon and show evidence to the world.

harik · Post by **harik** » 29 Nov 2008 17:26

Global Citizen Speakth :

http://www.pej.org/html/modules.php?op= ... =0&thold=0

“So really the strategies of resistance and what they ought to be is what occupies my time a lot these days.”

Suzanna Arundhati Roy

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 29 Nov 2008 17:26

NVG does not give a sense of depth.

Raju · Post by **Raju** » 29 Nov 2008 17:27

ID the weapon please.

transparent magazine, could be insas excalibur.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 29 Nov 2008 17:28

Singha wrote:Shiv, I was referring to the thing dangling from the neck. it is definitely a
nvg http://www.currentcorp.com/assets/image ... e/pvs7.jpg

Ah - I see it now...

vamsi · Post by **vamsi** » 29 Nov 2008 17:29

To all my seniors over here,

I have been following this forum for almost 2 years but hardly posted anything. I have got a small point to write.
We have been blaming political leaders regarding this, of course, its true and all of you are making very good points. But these are elected by our very own people. What i meant is, we should make some efforts to enlighten people around us instead of just educating ourselves here. I feel that we can make some difference because, people can respond to this in the form of vote in up coming elections. May be, we should even go for spreading pamphlets how congress/our leaders failed our country in every aspect. Its just an idea that popped up in my small brain. What do you say?

Thanks,
Vamsi.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 29 Nov 2008 17:29

Pakistan foreign minister cuts short India visit
29 Nov 2008, 1354 hrs IST, IANS
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NEW DELHI: Distressed over widespread charges of involvement of Pakistan in the Mumbai terror attacks, Pakistan foreign minister Shah Mehmood
Qureshi cut short his four-day visit to India and abruptly left for Islamabad on Saturday morning.

Qureshi was scheduled to meet Leader of Opposition L K Advani, Bharatiya Janata Party's prime ministerial candidate, at 10.30 am on Friday, but had to cancel his appointment due to a cabinet meeting in Islamabad later in the day, Pakistan embassy sources said.

He was earlier scheduled to go to Lahore in the evening.

Qureshi, who started his visit to India Wednesday on a positive note, was "quite upset" about what he saw as India's "insinuations" pointing to the involvement of Pakistan-based terrorists in audacious terror strikes at in Mumbai that has killed over 150 people and left over 300 injured, diplomatic sources said.

Hours after External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee blamed "some elements in Pakistan" for the terror strikes in Mumbai, Qureshi Friday condemned the "barbaric, inhuman attack" and offered cooperation "at every level" with New Delhi. He also warned against "playing politics" with the terror attacks and said the two countries needed "to turn the tide of confrontation to cooperation."

"The Indian government should have pondered more, reflected more before coming to a conclusion," he said.

He, however, acknowledged that there could be "rogue elements" in Pakistan who would be working to create a wedge between the two neighbours.

"We cannot rule out anything," he said.

Mukherjee rang up Qureshi Friday evening in the middle of his press interaction with women journalsits of India and impressed upon him the need for Pakistan to take immediate action over the terrorist attacks on Mumbai. He also reminded Islamabad to honour its pledge not to allow its territory to be used for terror attacks against India.

In a curious coincidence, terrorists targeted ten sites in Mumbai minutes after Mukherjee and Qureshi held talks in New Delhi and agreed to wage a joint fight against terrorism.
Click here to comment on this story.

Why is the ghaazi fleeing the battlefield ? Burkha 'I am an idiot' Dutt, Radeep 'Traitor' Sardesai and other luminaries will be missing his presence.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Nov 2008 17:30

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/6369/z5su.jpg

most of the us army's overdressed warriors in iraq have a sort of black
plastic thing on their helmets where the nvg can be mounted if desired,
but few actually mount it. maybe one or two in a squad do it for night
patrols.

this guy has a monocular system, but the extra weight atop the head
sure affects agility imo
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_sPDXkQOjm2g/R2Hxr ... TTY_11.jpg

INSANI · Post by **INSANI** » 29 Nov 2008 17:31

Sai wrote:
lakshmikanth wrote: The only reaction I see happening is MMS shouting at the ISI chaprasi and then declaring Indo-Puki bhai bhai
Not so cynical this time. Let's wait and watch.

MMS is not a crooked politician. I believe he just happens to take the "butter" side in the "guns vs butter" argument. He is said to be opposed to India's nuke tests in the '90s because they could jeopardize India's economic interests.

Well, today terrorists enacted a massacre that can jeopardize India's economic interests. You could argue that MMS couldn't be moved to action as long as terrorists focused on local trains in Mumbai or eateries in Hyderabad. But now they have attacked our businessmen, and tried to strike fear and doubt in the minds of foreign investors. MMS has to take action.

Frankly speaking, MMS is not the kind of guy who can handle this situation. he is not dynamic.
he even talks in single tone.

beside ,is their any confirmation how many pigs entered mumbai?

adarshp · Post by **adarshp** » 29 Nov 2008 17:32

still.. we must know how many we killed and therefore how many left to account for. How come DDM cant report simple things like this right. D.. uh, DDM right?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 29 Nov 2008 17:32

Raja wrote:The fkin Pakistani High Commissioner in USA was just on CNN and claimed that it is extremists in India who launched this attacks because of the Pakistani peace overtures that were made 4 days ago.

There are several strands going on simultaneously all with the same goal.

Claim that there is no solid proof of Pakistan's involvement. Ask Indian intel to present the proof to US & UK agencies so that they can prepare suitable rebuttals or even pass them on to ISI asking them to cover the tracks and be more careful next time around
Put pressure on India by saying that India has its own home-grown terror outfits that are equally capable of all this. An attempt was seen in yesterday's panel discussion when a British expert said that India must appear to handle the Hindu terrorists also with the same firm hand.
Such 'protection' of ISI will increase the US leverage with the ISI and in fact, the info from India may be even used to blackmail the ISI into its own submission

lakshmikanth · Post by **lakshmikanth** » 29 Nov 2008 17:33

so here is what the MMS has done so far:

1) Summoned ISI chief (for what, God only knows)
2) Bleated to international community that there is an "external hand" (maybe that was the invisible hand Adam Smith was talking about)
3) Convened meeting with Navy/Army et al
4) All party chai-biskoot party

(No meeting with business leaders!!! )

Short term plan: chai-biskoot
Long term Plan: Indo-Puki bhai bhai

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 29 Nov 2008 17:39

SSridhar wrote:
Raja wrote:The fkin Pakistani High Commissioner in USA was just on CNN and claimed that it is extremists in India who launched this attacks because of the Pakistani peace overtures that were made 4 days ago.
There are several strands going on simultaneously all with the same goal.

Claim that there is no solid proof of Pakistan's involvement. Ask Indian intel to present the proof to US & UK agencies so that they can prepare suitable rebuttals or even pass them on to ISI asking them to cover the tracks and be more careful next time around
Put pressure on India by saying that India has its own home-grown terror outfits that are equally capable of all this. An attempt was seen in yesterday's panel discussion when a British expert said that India must appear to handle the Hindu terrorists also with the same firm hand.

Such 'protection' of ISI will increase the US leverage with the ISI and in fact, the info from India may be even used to blackmail the ISI into its own submission

This presenting evidence is a tried and failed modus operrandi by India if I am not mistaken. This is just a pretext for buying time all the while giving the impression of doing something. Presneting evidences and pleading for justice might be fine in a fair court of justice. Sadly the real geopolitical world is anything but that where everyone has their own agenda to push. I dont believe current crop of GOI leader are not aware of it. So what gives? Amirkhan pressure?

adarshp · Post by **adarshp** » 29 Nov 2008 17:43

what gives is realization that we will not take action across the border, so our only gameplan is pressure to force pakistan to engage these terrorist groups on their soil. If Pakistan is fighting them, it becomes their problem and the terrorists remain engaged locally rather than having time to concentrate on them. Buys time and is a tactic to tire them out. Also, in such case pakistan govt funding to people sympathetic with these pigs will reduce. I know this is the only thing we will do in the end, just wish it wasnt. Dont feel like being so patient today. Would like to see a few cruise missiles launched today on known camps which were shifted to PoK to further inland. We still know where they are.....

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 29 Nov 2008 17:44

There is a ridiculuous panel discussion going on in BBC. Except for the British lady, there is an attempt to equate India and Pakistan. The Indian lady is timid (some Kaul is her name)

This Kaul lady is useless. She says that if there is no food in India, we blame Pakistan and that is because of the 60 year mistrust. This lady was simply atrocious. Didn't open her mouth at all. The Pakistani guy simply steam-rolled her. The Paki guy said it was not 60 years but 700 years because the Muslims of 20% ruled the Hindus of 80%. Atrocious to say the least.

nishug · Post by **nishug** » 29 Nov 2008 17:44

vamsi wrote:To all my seniors over here,

I have been following this forum for almost 2 years but hardly posted anything. I have got a small point to write.
We have been blaming political leaders regarding this, of course, its true and all of you are making very good points. But these are elected by our very own people. What i meant is, we should make some efforts to enlighten people around us instead of just educating ourselves here. I feel that we can make some difference because, people can respond to this in the form of vote in up coming elections. May be, we should even go for spreading pamphlets how congress/our leaders failed our country in every aspect. Its just an idea that popped up in my small brain. What do you say?

Thanks,
Vamsi.

hello Vamsi

... u know this saying ... if a person is really sleeping u can wake him up, but You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep

lakshmikanth · Post by **lakshmikanth** » 29 Nov 2008 17:48

SSridhar wrote:There is a ridiculuous panel discussion going on in BBC. Except for the British lady, there is an attempt to equate India and Pakistan. The Indian lady is timid (some Kaul is her name)

This Kaul lady is useless. She says that if there is no food in India, we blame Pakistan.

Sigh!! I guess the days of == are back again. The white trash experts would now do India==TSP==third world poverty == terrorism. And that would be the case of why we should be really scared of Hindu terrorism.. because there are a lot of poor illiterate Hindus...(ofcourse no one bothers that around 20% of the binge drinking UK public is below their poverty line and lives less than a 40 Rs a day in PPP equated terms from india)

I hate to say it.. looks like piglets won in getting us the ==

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 29 Nov 2008 17:49

Singha wrote:it seems to be real life people outside of hollywood movies and PC games do not fight and move with helmet mounted nvg kit. they cant aim and fire the weapon anyway. seen pix of us army patrols in iraq having this thing.
maybe they stop, look, fold it up and move again during cat and mouse games.

the above rifle has been id'ed earlier as a SIG 550.
http://hpbimg.i-e-a.de/6-24X72%20mit%20 ... 40%20N.jpg

singha ji, it's not the SIG SG 550 but the SG 552 commando carbine.
check this pic, w/o the bipod.

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 29 Nov 2008 17:49

Patni wrote:
p_saggu wrote: Patni,
Could you please make the map? with arrows to enlighten us.
It is possible that these people were going to a
1, safe house
2. extraction point - since they expected to walk out of this alive!
3. Going to some other high profile and unprotected target nearby - So I think that rules the airport out- heavily protected and only two scum.
Are there any big 5 star hotels nearby? Or the residences of High profile people?
Map done. Invite members to provide feedbacks/informations to add etc.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&ms ... 60badd365e

Patni, thanks for the great map. CAn you add the point where they switched from the Qualis to the Skoda?

Raju · Post by **Raju** » 29 Nov 2008 17:50

Just posting my thoughts loudly here.

does Pakistan's IMF loan tranche have any hidden conditions that they would go bomb India or do a 9/11 operation here ?
because the way official western media (BBC, CNN) is spinning it in favor of Pakistan, it would certain seem so.

they could not spin at first because the audience too would be shocked.
but later on they have started spinning it vigorously.
It seems that the larger aim behind this is that the western managers want this attack to shock the western public just as well as India through psy-ops all the while ensuring that their chief allies of Pakistan, SA are not physically harmed in the process.

yeh BBC, aur CNN ke daal mein kaala zaroor kuch hain.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 29 Nov 2008 17:52

That atrocious lady's name is Sarju Kaul. Does anybody have any dope on her ?

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 29 Nov 2008 17:52

CNN/IBN :- Zerdari says his heart bleeds for India. yeah right, not sure where else he is bleeding from.

But he also said ISI chief will come to India but not now!!!! again?

this way we can never vindicate porkies for what they have done to us. MMS needs to use iron fist to handle this.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 29 Nov 2008 17:59

We must commend the excellent work done by the special forces and offer condolences to the family & friends of those who were murdered.

Just as in the past, there will be nothing done and this will soon be forgotten. We must only to wait for the next terrorist strike to repeat this shameful process over again.

Patni · Post by **Patni** » 29 Nov 2008 18:07

Jagan wrote:
Patni wrote: Patni, thanks for the great map. CAn you add the point where they switched from the Qualis to the Skoda?

mmm as far as i know the switch happened somewhere near churchgate and before they were on marine drive. One of my family member was about to get out on the road from his buildings drive way on marine drive and saw the red scoda tearing down the road with police on chase and ducked right back all shaken up. If any other members have any more specific location information please provide.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 29 Nov 2008 18:11

Giliani live on NDTV!

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 29 Nov 2008 18:11

Patni, another doubt. Is the DBS marg checkpoint same site as the Girgaum Chowpatty encounter? I thought the latter was the place of the final encounter and it was much further north

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Nov 2008 18:16

does NSG people wear black bush hats also sometimes. I saw three instances of guys dressed in all-black and such a hat.
(a) directing the two IA troopers on the AGS 17 "plamya" AGL
(b) walking as a sort of close security to the IA general when he visited
(c) a fleeting shot standing outside

wondering if there could have been people from the para Cdo units mixed in with the NSG?

and what was this about the people at jewish center from morning till
noon being dressed in "blue and black", who were replaced by all-blacks
with heavy body armour in the afternoon?