Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 02 Dec 2008 16:02

Please continue here

link to last page of previous thread here

Raj Malhotra · Post by **Raj Malhotra** » 02 Dec 2008 16:09

Mumbai is known to be target for terrorists. Now look at this:-

First terrorist shots were fired at Taj and Oberoi at around 9.30-10pm. Marcos reached around 4am in morning in Taj (while they did nothing in Oberoi EVEN AFTER reaching) and NSG got into operation around 8am after 11 hours of first incident. Now point is what the Mumbai Police, its CP and DGP were doing from 10pm to 4am that is 6 hours when killings were going on in the heart of city i.e. before they could pass the blame to MARCOS/NSG. I ask the assh*les in power-that after sad demise of ATS personnel, were there no other person to take command? Governor House and all city politicians live within shouting distance of Taj, what were they doing, why additional armed police teams could not be sent from Police HQ or why commandoes attached to security of say, Governor House 5 min away, did not respond?

1. Why should the heads of Police CP, DGP & local SHOs not roll? How many AKs rifles were there in Mumbai Police and how were they deployed or distributed? Mumbai Police especially DGP, CP, Deputy CM, CM have to explain movements between 9pm to 4pm which are full 7 hours!

2. Where were Taj security guards? Could such a big Hotel on terrorist hit list not hire retired commandoes? When did Taj call police?

3. Why did NSG move to airport and city by BEST Buses? Wasting 2 hours in Delhi /Mumbai, where was the co-ordination to get IAF Helos? Note-This issue of delay was raised in Akshardham also!

4. Why NSG was not armed with guns to shoot through walls? (like short barreled shot guns firing explosive rounds)Note-This issue was raised in Akshardham also!

5. When NSG was called, why was IAF not called simultaneously to get helos/aircraft for fast movement?

6. Why there was no beat officer patrolling the sea coast, which should be normal? In Mumbai a person cannot go five steps without running into cops!

7. Only 2 Prahars were deployed by Navy till 4pm which is only 8x2=16 men, Mumbai is important navy port, so is that the only persons they had? Isn’t there a naval colony in Colaba itself which is right at the site of tragedy? Don’t the naval ships routinely dock near Gateway i.e. Taj? What was the exact time they were called (12am-1pm) and why is it that they could only respond after 4 hours with only 16 persons while being just a few hundred meters being away?

8. Why has the bureaucracy read Cabinet secretary not developed a co-ordination for quick response from Services in time of crisis? Why his personal permission is required? Why should he be not dismissed for responding slow? Why did whole of naval staff not act faster and with more men? Mumbai is heart of navy & Colaba / gateway is in the middle of heart, why did they respond with so few men and so slow? Why more commandoes could not come from IA & IAF who also have stations not more than an hour away? What would have happened if the attack had taken place say in Aurangabad, would they brass/nsg/police respond after one week?

9. What is the amount of training a police cop gets for firing his weapon? I think one round per year on average! This is in Bombay city with budget of city alone of 10,000 crores rupees per annum i.e. apart from lakhs of crores collected in the city for central and state taxes. Yes get it –the city alone generates few Billion dollars in taxes and Capitalization of Bombay stock market is more than the National GDP!! Why could not 10,000 Insas rifle be procured and cops trained on them? Cost only Rs. 20 crores!!!!!!

10. What has been done to destroy Dawood links in Cricket, film industry etc. Are not local politicians, police still heavily involved with known Dawood agents?

11. Why this issue of bomb blasts in taxi, more terrorists and local support is being downplayed?

12. Antony is reputed to be honest but is he competent? Has his indecision has delayed all procurement contracts of all services?

13. Is Chidambaram honest or has he been kicked upstairs for playing stock market and lining his (son’s) nest while not listening to anybody else (read not sharing the booty)?

14. Note- I think all those leaks to show that there was adequate intelligence is I think to protect some top brass which I think can only be NSA himself.

15. We were indirectly told that we should take quietly all the terrorist attacks as MMS does not want to de-rail nuke deal but what action he wants to take now? Why should not MMS, PC & Antony also resign and pave way for other sycophants, after all they should also get an opportunity!

16. Service Brass always blames politicians; the point is are they ready today? The last point of time any overt military action can be taken Pakistan is Jan 2009!

17. Why should we not mobilize, force Pakistan to draw away forces from North west front and then fund anti-pak jihadists, why not increase budget of RAW by say Rs. 10,000 crores for Pakistan de-stabilization alone? After all de-stabilized Pakistan cannot be worse than this. Soviet Union was also a nuclear power but was dismantled, after all!

While NSG, Mumbai lower level personnel may have been good and acted bravely, their brass has to answer lot of questions!

If possible please forward these questions to journalists we know so that they can be asked by media to (politicians &) bureaucrats, considering that bureaucrats are all going to escape. If we going to go to war, then we may have to live with these assh*les but if not then I say fire:-

1. NSA
2. Cabinet secretary
3. Home secretary
4. RAW head
5. IB Head
6. Mumbai DGP- a cry baby who looks like a gay and wants to hide his incompetence behind dead Mumbai Cops
7. Mumbai CP
8. Mumbai local SHOs
9. Coast Guard head

(NSG and Service chiefs should be asked to account for slow response, as of now the blame seems somewhere else but some reasons for delay are rumours and not open source, so I cannot post it!)

I am reposting this post, as earlier thread locked

sunnyP · Post by **sunnyP** » 02 Dec 2008 16:19

ISRAEL - State angry at Zaka's Mumbai 'meddling'

Senior Foreign Ministry officials lashed out at the Zaka rescue and recovery organization on Monday, charging that the group was causing considerable damage to Indo-Israeli ties by "meddling" in Mumbai.
Members of the Jewish...

"They are causing all kinds of problems," a senior Foreign Ministry official said of the six-man team that flew Thursday on its own volition to Mumbai. "They are selling all kinds of stories to journalists looking for stories, and taking credit for things they didn't do."

Charges by the head of the Zaka team in Mumbai reported in The Jerusalem Post on Monday that the Jewish hostages in the Chabad House may have been killed by Indian commandos, and not by the terrorists, infuriated the Foreign Ministry, with one official saying that these types of "irresponsible comments" can have serious diplomatic repercussions.

"How can they say such a thing?" one official said. "Did they do an autopsy, do they know what type of bullet caused the wound? Do they have forensic or ballistic expertise? This is not the type of thing you can determine just by looking at a body."

Asked whether he really thought that the Indians were unable to take external criticism of their actions, he said that they can take the criticism in private, but not the way it was publicly being voiced in Israel. "This type of public criticism is an embarrassment for them," he said.

On Sunday the Foreign Ministry, already concerned that public criticism in Israel was having a negative effect in New Delhi, issued a statement saying that Israel thanked the Indians for their efforts and cooperation. And on Monday Prime Minister Ehud Olmert spoke to Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, conveyed Israel's condolences on the loss of life in the terrorist attacks and praised India for the way it dealt with the crisis.

According to a statement issued by the Prime Minister's Office, Olmert expressed his appreciation for the Indian military's "brave response and determination and said that bravery and determination are the most important components in dealing with terrorism."

Singh told Olmert that the determined nature of the Indian responses sprung from a belief that "there can be no negotiations with terrorists, and they must be dealt with by force." The two agreed to tighten the counter-terrorist coordination between the two countries.

Regarding Zaka, one senior Foreign Ministry official said that the six-man team went to Mumbai on its own, and was not working together with the official Israeli representatives on the ground.

"It is not exactly clear what they are doing there," the official said.

According to the official, the Indian authorities removed the bodies from the home, and there was no need for Zaka to do what it often is called upon to do after terrorist attacks in Israel - collect body parts.

Zaka spokesman Motti Bukjin deflected the criticism, and also said that the group had no intention of leveling criticism at the Indian government.

Bukjin said that Zaka volunteers worked around the clock in Mumbai helping to identify the bodies, sponge up blood for burial with the bodies, deal with damaged Torah scrolls in the Chabad House and remove some of the six bodies from the house.

Once these bodies were removed, he said the Zaka volunteers remained with them around-the-clock so they were not mixed up with other bodies, and - together with Foreign Ministry officials - to ensure that no autopsies were performed on them.

He said Zaka would sit down with Foreign Ministry officials at a later date to draw conclusions from the events in Mumbai.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite? ... 2FShowFull

JaiS · Post by **JaiS** » 02 Dec 2008 16:44

Kerala CM and his stupid remark

http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=GQluW8d-oy0

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 02 Dec 2008 17:05

JaiS wrote:Kerala CM and his stupid remark
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=GQluW8d-oy0

Kerala CM is now in a royal mess thanks to this stupid comment of his. Most likely the earlier taunt of the dead Major's father asking him to get out riled him (CM) up. The opposition leaders in Kerala are now waiting for him to come to the legislature to ask for an explanation. The way the CM arrived in Karnataka and insisted on seeing the dead Major's family etc., I feel it was move to force the Kerala opposition parties to keep quiet. Or else they (and the media) would have highlighted that Kerala CM did not pay due respects to a dead Mallu soldier. But what ever he wished to avoid has now come back in a more embarassing manner.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 02 Dec 2008 17:12

There are questions that need to be answered to plug gaps in the terror planning.

How do we establish the real identity if this girlie terrorist in captivity ? We should be able to do it independently of relying on the Pakistani government. Will a break in into the NADRA database help ? Is that even possible ?
Do we have citings of Kuber by other boats/trawlers ? Did they see anything different ? By looking at the route in the GPS, we can enquire crew of ships likely to have been in the vicinity.
There is still some grey area on how they reached Porbandar. The initial reports spoke of a mothership that they transferred to, after they set off from Karachi. There is also some confusion about their first landing at Okha and then going to Porbandar
The hijacking of the Kuber and the transfer of arms, explosives and inflatable boats from the mothership to Kuber need to be reconstructed
The initial reports spoke of 5 batches of terrorists landing at Badhwar Park with one going to CST, one to Leopold Cafe, one to Nariman House, one to Trident and the last to the Taj. Except for the Taj group which was 4 persons, the rest were two persons each. This needs to be confirmed and all accounted for. What happened to CCTV footages at Taj & Trident & Leopold ?

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 02 Dec 2008 17:23

SSridhar,
They arrested Abdul Sattar from Porbandar. He was one of the accused in 1993 Mumbai blasts and let off.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... 742488.cms

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 02 Dec 2008 17:23

Another thing being misreported in DDM. GPS navigation at sea. This is something a grade 5 student can do. All you need is a chart and a GPS device. On the chart plot your present position as given by the GPS (Long/ Lat). Draw a point you'd like to go to. 10 miles off Mumbai harbour. Draw a straight line. Look at the chart for what course is required. Point to that course and carry on. Every hour check if you're on that course. If not correct it by knowing what your present position is and plotting a straightline to the destination point. No skills of any special level required. For any person here it will take no more than 5 minutes to learn how to navigate a ship. Obviously on the chart you have wrecks or shallow mounds pointed out. So just avoid them.

Pointing this out, because this is being reported in quite a bit of media.

nsa_tanay · Post by **nsa_tanay** » 02 Dec 2008 17:37

Why Salaskar,Kamte, Karkare Died ?
http://www.mid-day.com/news/2008/dec/01 ... jacket.htm

Every single bullet went through the jackets
By: J DeyDate: 2008-12-01
Mumbai:

let down: Top cop Hemant Karkare donned a bullet proof jacket minutes after this picture was taken on the night he was killed. But he still died from injuries to his chest

Slain encounter specialist Vijay Salaskar had 59 encounter killings to his credit. He was always in the line of fire, yet, he never wore a bulletproof jacket. It was no different when he was mowed down in Wednesday's terror attacks.

But it wasn't the absence of a bulletproof (BP) vest that killed him. Officers close to him believe, he would have died even if he had worn the vest as they provide no defence against AK-56 and AK-47 gun fire the weapons used by the militants in Mumbai's terror attacks.

"In 2004, samples of these vests were sent for a trial at the firing range of the State Reserve Police Force (SRPF). They were fitted on dummies, [as is the practice] and sprayed with AK-47 bullets and bullets from self-loading rifles (SLR). Every single bullet went through the jackets even though the rounds were fired from a distance," a senior police official revealed, on condition of anonymity.

Sub-standard vests

A report was sent and an inquiry was ordered by the Home Department. The file was returned to the police with a remark "improved consignment will be sent before the next supply". However, MiD DAY has learnt, that despite assurance what was delivered were the sub-standard BP vests.

Salaskar was among the few officers aware that an inquiry was pending against these vests. He is also learnt to have approached the court, through a PIL, questioning the use of these vests. And so, since he never trusted the quality of the vests, he never wore them not once during the 59 encounters he carried on.

Like many others in the force, Additional CP Ashok Kamte and ATS Chief Hemant Karkare had no idea of such a probe. Both died due to SLR bullet injuries the bullets had penetrated their vests.

Another probe

Former IPS officer and now lawyer, Y P Singh, who quit the Mumbai police disgusted by the alleged corruption within, squarely blames what he describes this as a "major cartel run by two or three agents. These agents get products manufactured in cottage industries and supply it to the government.

"Equipment worth more than Rs 100 crore are procured each year under the name of police modernisation," Singh pointed out.

The Anti Corruption Department (ACB) had received another inquiry from the Home Department related to the procurement of sub-standard bullet proof jackets and 9 mm live rounds and SLR magazines. While the jackets were found weak, the bullets did not fit into the weapons.

It was found that the bullet proof jackets were procured from two unknown manufactures (T K Industry and Samsun). It was cleared by an agent. Inquiries revealed that the jackets did not meet the required specifications and they did not get the clearance of the Defence Research Development Organisation, a statutory body for clearing arms and ammunition.

"I prepared a 100-page report. It never saw the light of the day," said an official of the ACB, who has since resigned. Said ACB DG, S Chakraborty, "I have recently taken over the new post. I cannot comment, but I will look into the matter."

What's wrong?
The Mumbai police have been using armour, which is about 42 inches long. It is supposed to be covered with special cloth and special wire mesh, but the specifications are rarely met.
The steel plates are often corroded resulting in failure to stop with normal masses of 8 grams velocity.
The wire mesh is found to be less than 10 gauge, which often fails when a shotgun fires.
The US services use Type III which can withstand 7.62. 9 mm carbine and even grenade shrapnel. The wire mesh protects from 12 gauge rifle shots.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 02 Dec 2008 17:39

^^^ harbans - you confirm one thing, that the piglets cannot be unwashed illiterate village madrassah boys - some ingrez ishpeaking and maths, geometry knowledge is required to use a chart and gps set

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 02 Dec 2008 17:50

Pak trawler seized off Gujarat coast; 7 arrested:

ToI Reporting
May be they seized the trawler before and just now releasing the info

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Dec 2008 17:52

Every single bullet went through the jackets

take a look at the pix. it was quite obvious even visually how light and weak
compared to the ones worn by army.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 02 Dec 2008 17:52

^^^ harbans - you confirm one thing, that the piglets cannot be unwashed illiterate village madrassah boys - some ingrez ishpeaking and maths, geometry knowledge is required to use a chart and gps set

Actually yes. But navigation on high seas with GPS is pretty elementary stuff. Also it is confirmed they retained the skipper till off Mumbai where they beached in dinghies after they murdered him. Certainly they are not illiterate rustics on to this.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 02 Dec 2008 18:15

ramana asked the question:

what happened at the airport?

The best response was:

Well most accounts say that terrorist had left a bomb in the taxi to get rid of any trail , sadly the taxi and the driver was blown to pieces

Do u get the same feeling as I do, that the terrorists stepped out, brushed the dust off their Armani jackets, and strolled across the road and into the airport carrying their 007 briefcases and got on the next plane out? The airport was not closed then...

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 02 Dec 2008 18:23

perhaps the SSG/ISI handlers and team leaders took the flight out and left the foot soldiers to do the dying? Might have told them, don't worry yaar, we're on our way to the Marriot as planned

anyone know if flights to the middle east leave around that time?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Dec 2008 18:25

yes I very much believe that team flew on to dubai, delhi, hyd, blr anywhere to sit as a sleeper cell
and await further orders.

imo these terrorist leaders are very hard to locate let alone target.

so:

beat up the paki establishment (army, eco targets) -> who beat up the lashkars

seems to be only way. PN cannot run, nor can PA cantonments, or steel mills, HIT, OFB, refineries....

we can expect to take a $50b hit on our economy, but the paki state and economy as it exists
can be finished off, hastening the fission and letting talibs form their emirate on west bank.

baki it will be upto Unkil what to do with this new member of the UN.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Dec 2008 18:28

http://www.csia.in/FlightsData.asp

plenty of flights to gulf in the 8pm-12 timeframe

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 02 Dec 2008 18:28

I have a very stupid, naive but an honest question:

Why do all terrorists carry ID cards conveniently?

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 02 Dec 2008 18:30

as we ponder this airport conundrum, we seem to be homing in on an Al-Q operating method rather than an LET op method - thereby creating a strong hypothesis for the latter being formally taken over by the former, or indeed relevaling the Pakfauj == al qaeda; as we have long suggested on this forum

terrorists carry id cards to 1. throw police off the scent if apprehended prior to the attack; 2. confuse police following the attack

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 02 Dec 2008 18:38

Mullahs, I moved the posts discussing Indian Response (incl. laughter at Pakistani Response) to the response thread.
Pls continue discussing news about the Mumbai attack itself here.

because:

1. Easier to close the "Indian Response" thread without losing any valuable news

.
2. Many more details will emerge now on the attacks themselves that are best placed on this Mumbai Atttacks Thread
3. Much less activity expected on Indian Response thread.
4. Then again ... SHOULD there be a response other than a mass guvrmand harakiri.... we want to take off with continuity there.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 02 Dec 2008 18:47

Thank you, Sunny, for confirming what was evident about the Israeli ghoul gang "ZAKA".

The Israeli government at once confirms that ZAKA said what one foulmouth posted here, and yet it is not calling "ZAKA" what they are: DAMN LIARS.

Regarding Zaka, one senior Foreign Ministry official said that the six-man team went to Mumbai on its own, and was not working together with the official Israeli representatives on the ground.

"It is not exactly clear what they are doing there," the official said.

According to the official, the Indian authorities removed the bodies from the home, and there was no need for Zaka to do what it often is called upon to do after terrorist attacks in Israel - collect body parts.

Zaka spokesman Motti Bukjin deflected the criticism, and also said that the group had no intention of leveling criticism at the Indian government.

Bukjin said that Zaka volunteers worked around the clock in Mumbai helping to identify the bodies, sponge up blood for burial with the bodies, deal with damaged Torah scrolls in the Chabad House and remove some of the six bodies from the house. {now try reconciling that with the italicized statement above}

Once these bodies were removed, he said the Zaka volunteers remained with them around-the-clock so they were not mixed up with other bodies, and - together with Foreign Ministry officials - to ensure that no autopsies were performed on them. {But now try reconciling that with what the DOCTORS reported.}

He said Zaka would sit down with Foreign Ministry officials at a later date to draw conclusions from the events in Mumbai. {IOW, the Israeli government still plans to accord these liars recognition?}

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite? ... 2FShowFull

If what they claim above is true regarding their activities, then they also KNOW VERY WELL what the autopsy doctors saw (whether an autopsy had to be performed or not), and STILL they claimed that the rabbi and his wife may have been killed by Indian rescuers' bullets. WHY is the Indian government tolerating these lying ass*oles on Indian land at a time like this after the lies they published? They are as bad as the Pakis! Or worse, BBC!

I bet they will also bill the GOI for their esteemed "services" and that the GOI will pay them.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 02 Dec 2008 18:48

N^3,

if I may ask, what is the 'Indian Response to Terrorism' Thread about:

1. rants and

2. GoI responses to the attacks
3. BRF thinking on how India should respond.

If it is 2. or 3., then that discussion should continue and remains relevant.

Anabhaya · Post by **Anabhaya** » 02 Dec 2008 18:51

How many AKs rifles were there in Mumbai Police and how were they deployed or distributed? Mumbai Police especially DGP, CP, Deputy CM, CM have to explain movements between 9pm to 4pm which are full 7 hours!

Raj,

Why don't you make a list of such questions and file an RTI application with the Mumbai Police Commissioners office? Seriously - it would only cost you less than 100 rupees and you might have to spend only two hours drafting the application. Send it by registered post. I'm flying out in a couple of days maybe..otherwise I'd do it myself. We have tried exploiting the RTI in Coimbatore - the babu fears it.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 02 Dec 2008 18:53

Oh, Rajesh, absolutely. I have NO intention of deleting the "response thread" anytime soon, if ever. BUT... the "response" is precisely what u say: A lot of

and chai-biscoot and GeorgeJ coming in to taunt everyone from time to time because no one is buying him tea.

So there is a high likelihood that such a thing WOULD get locked as it becomes clearer that there is 2 b no response, and the Pu exchanges become too intense to stop.

Also, "response" posts are long, and based on theories, far fewer news links. If we let that be mixed up here, this thread will fill up to 50 or 100 pages in no time, and it becomes so much harder to find the factual posts.

All I've done (today) is to move the Response posts from here to there, none deleted. Including mine.

I intend to participate as much as I can in the Response Thread too

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 02 Dec 2008 18:58

Tanaji wrote:I have a very stupid, naive but an honest question:

Why do all terrorists carry ID cards conveniently?

So that they can catch the plane when they are done. (not joking)

Patni · Post by **Patni** » 02 Dec 2008 18:59

narayanan wrote:ramana asked the question:
what happened at the airport?

The best response was:
Well most accounts say that terrorist had left a bomb in the taxi to get rid of any trail , sadly the taxi and the driver was blown to pieces

Do u get the same feeling as I do, that the terrorists stepped out, brushed the dust off their Armani jackets, and strolled across the road and into the airport carrying their 007 briefcases and got on the next plane out? The airport was not closed then...

Well I have posted details on innocent occupants of taxis when bombs went off. In both case the bombs went off within 5 min of each other (Around 9:50PM) so am sure it was on a timer. A Hyderabadi lawyer had hired the taxi from south mumbai, to go back to kandivali in north, after reaching CST to catch a train but had to go back cause of terror attack at CST. So am sure that no terrorists was riding in the taxis that blew up at Vile parle. Also the blast site is about a km away from domestic airport terminal and would be a good 4 km away from international one.

Another taxi was hired by two innocent muslim ladies ( Mother & Daughter) also from within a km of CST to go to BMPT colony at mazgoan. That taxi blew up minutes after they got out of taxi and so the driver got killed and 3 slum dwellers on the road side next to the taxi.

I have marked the spots of blasts to within 5 meters on the google map. With as accurate a time as i can get based on various web reports.

shaggy · Post by **shaggy** » 02 Dec 2008 19:02

Has anyone seen this video posted on BBC? Sorry if it was posted earlier.
It's a CCTV footage of the 2 terrorists at CST.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7760690.stm

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 02 Dec 2008 19:03

The "AQ M.O." is that the Paki-In-Charge exits from the airport as the Suicide gangs go inflate themselves. In this case they cut it too fine, so the taxi driver's evidence had to be destroyed - thereby leaving a clear mark that they must have escaped through the airport - unavoidable. Or maybe they caught another car waiting around the airport, being in mufti with the usual ID cards etc. and drove to some other airport for their actual egress.

Usually it would be a non-stop to Karachi, but in this case that would have been way too evident.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 02 Dec 2008 19:03

Using chemical gas in the anti terror operation is not new to Indian scenario.

In Operation Blue Star SFF troops were tasked to assualt the Akal Takht. The men fired gas shells meant to blind the terrorists but the it lacked desired effect rapidly evolving combat situation and heavy fortification of the structure.

But lets look at the one instance when it was used , some "magic non lethal gas" was used , in a situation when there were terrorist ( men and women ) who were like on hair trigger alert with bombs tied to their vest , but *none* got time to react , they were in deep sleep and so were most of the hostages ( quite a few were semi-concious ) , but most fatalities were due to the fact that doctors couldnt determine what chemical was exactly used and hence didnt
have a clue how to revive them , not to mention the authorities were not forthcoming

Austin, All that is unobtanium. One has to fight with what one has access to.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 02 Dec 2008 19:12

tsarkar Post subject: Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III
Posted: 02 Dec 2008 06:08 am

BRFite -Trainee

Joined: 08 May 2006 08:14 am
Posts: 74
Location: mumbai

1. There was talk of NSG given its air wing –

In my view, highly impractical, as the logistics burden of operating and maintaining the aircraft would be overwhelming for the NSG. There is no guarantee that terrorists cannot discern the time of routine maintenance of the aircraft and choosing those specific days for the attack.

It’s always better to use IAF resources. IAF transport squadrons will always have readily available planes from its squadron strength. In addition, C-130s will enter service in some years.

2. There was talk of NSG groups being deployed in various cities –

In my view, highly impractical. Such Quick Reaction Teams need to comprise of locals.

Couldnt agree more to both points. The NSG needs to be a very very small and elite force meant for extreme situations that cant be handled by local units. The move to setup MSG for Maharashtra is the right step and similarly CISF should further develop its Black Panthers unit for hijackings.

All states already have an "armed police" wing already and it is these units that need to be developed.

Regarding air wing for NSG: NSG already has ready access to ARC aircraft which are also stationed in Palam. What better can they get. However, they should have 2 choppers stationed at Manesar to transport them directly to the scene.

If at all it is the BSF air wing which needs to be enhanced as it is under MHA like the NSG.

PS: The Mi-17 that was used at Nariman house was from ARC only.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 02 Dec 2008 19:15

- double post -

Anabhaya · Post by **Anabhaya** » 02 Dec 2008 19:15

Police Chief is addressing the media right now. The media is being so indisciplined. Everybody is shouting 'Sir-sir-sir-sir'. I can't hear what the guy is saying.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 02 Dec 2008 19:18

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Terr ... 785228.cms
Cops say, there is no locals.. sure enough.. then, how many employees of Tata's orgs are still pakis? Let them come out clear who are locals and who are pakis in our institutions. Hiring managers gets firing orders.

I agree on the NSG aspects.. I would rather improve our local police investments, giving them infrastrcture, vehicle and support like a cop in advanced nations would get.. especially guns, bullet proof dress, kevlar helmet, etc. This is the basic.. plus, local police gets once a month a visit by NSG people to train them on various aspects. Get trained, but may not be experts.. nothing wrong here.

sum · Post by **sum** » 02 Dec 2008 19:22

Was just reading the latet edition of the week. It was written when the Mumbai encounter was only one day old and since print deadline had arrived, they have written only what they knew till the 27th( article states that the NSG just joined the action).

What shocked me was:

The journo says that his friend noticed a brutal killing at arms length where a cop standing guard at the Cama hospital stopped two pathan suit clad boys entry and one of them shot the cop dead at point blank with a revolver!!!!

Did any report till now mention pathan suit clad terrorists?

WTF is going on in Mumbai? Are there more pigs on the loose or have the agencies caught hold of few piglets/killed a few but arent revealing so for operational purposes?

Im hoping its the latter....

ksmahesh · Post by **ksmahesh** » 02 Dec 2008 19:23

Chemicals designed for swift and effective neutralization of terrorists should be developed. To hell with any international treaty.

On side note I request Admins to achieve the threads on Mumbai terror because some people want to use this information collected here for good use

An email I recieved:

I am following the events of Mumbai for some time now. To me it is quite clear now that the only enemy which is really capable of, and is going to destroy the country is our politicians. They will take no action, as usual. These guys are backed up real solid, by the media also. It is known that the most effective weapons of 21st century are Mass media and Ignorance (lack of information). General elections are due next year. If somehow, with the help of people in various forums, create profiles of major parties (with every comment backed up with references) and their leaders (their whole janam patris ), put it on internet, spread it as much as possible, and try to mobilize our generation to take interest in the affairs of this country, before its too late. I think with the help of web community, a big dent can be made on modulus operandi of our imbecile politicians. Somehow create awareness about "remarkable work" of our "Leaders" in a more aggressive way.

My own feeling is that India cannot suffer another 5 year of current chaos.

Should anyone wish to help in creating the "Janam Patris" of our politicians then please mail to "india UNDERSCORE change" AT rediffmail DOT com.

Jo Shaheed Huan Hain Unki Yaad Mein Karna Hai Apna Dharam......

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 02 Dec 2008 19:33

ksmahesh wrote:Should anyone wish to help in creating the "Janam Patris" of our politicians then please mail to "india UNDERSCORE change" AT rediffmail DOT com.

Jo Shaheed Huan Hain Unki Yaad Mein Karna Hai Apna Dharam......

Explain please! What do you mean by 'creating Janam Patris of politicians'?

adityaS · Post by **adityaS** » 02 Dec 2008 19:36

Opinion piece in the washington post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02438.html

[...]nations should not be able to claim sovereign rights when they cannot control territory from which terrorist attacks are launched.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 02 Dec 2008 19:36

My personal opinion only - if the US is doing things slightly different from the usual equal-equal, India-take-it-on-the-chin-and-grin, etc., it is not because of any new relationship with India, it is because of the American Jewish lobby.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 02 Dec 2008 19:37

This is not a 10 man operation. At the minimum 3 dozen terrorists would have been involved. Remember there were reports of 29 Pakis and 11 BDs initially. What happened to those reports?

There is a possibility that many are unaccounted for. The GOI made a decision to not reveal the actual numbers that are in hiding now as that would affect confidence levels.

There's a lot we don't know at this juncture. The number of people involved for one.

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 02 Dec 2008 19:42

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/02/world ... ml?_r=1&hp

Some heroes of Mumbai