Indian Response to Terrorism

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 06 Dec 2008 03:35

Best way to tackle this islamic terrorism is to hit at the source from where it is coming. We kill one Hafiz or Dawood or Laden, someone else will take their places . It's not these men that have to be terminated , it's the ideology that divides this world into believers and infidels . My vote for that US politician who said to nuke mecca and medina in case of a nuke strike on US by these believers. Why wait for that strike man ? Make pre-emptive strike . Break the backbone of Saudi Arabia ... the financer of all terror attacks . All their wealth lies in eight oil wells ...put these wells on fire . Destroy everything that's related to this deadly disease called islam . No islam , no terror , no war .Only pEACE ! http://www.faithfreedom.org
Nobody understands Islam like this fellow bcoz he/she WAS a muslim . Know Thy Enemy . Visit http://www.faithfreedom.org
Let BUDDHA smile in the land of Saudi Arabia !!!

This should be India's response to terrorism .

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 06 Dec 2008 03:40

The problem is really with interpretation of Islam, although I admit there are parts of the Holy Quran that can be very easily mis-interpreted or get one into the quagmire of "my religion is the best" very easily, so that people can be desensitized to killing, maiming or getting fanatic. It requires a person of BIG heart to interpret Islam peacefully and live peacefully, with tolerance and even admiration of other religions. That I admit. But there are people who have lived, are living in peace in Islam.

Serious, serious problem not only with history of Islam but you do not seem to have read the Quran together with contextual Hadiths, and supporting background history. It is not merely about my religion is the best - it is a consistent, systematic exposition of subjugation of non-Muslims, especially non-Jews and non-Christians - those who are not the "people of the book" - the so called "polytheists" who are singled out explicitly for enslavement, forced conversion, slaughter, dispossesion. I am sorry to say, you do not seem to show any extensive knowledge of Islamic theology at all. It is not about misinterpretation - the Quran and the Hadiths make it very very clear about the policy to be followed and the methods to be employed to achieve these objectives. Remember that the theory of the Sunnah or what the prophet of Islam did, was mandatory to be copied in similar situations can also be invoked to carry out genocide, rape, enslavement. Here are two small indicators : http://dikgaj.wordpress.com/2008/09/13/ ... y-india-3/ and look at the Jihad justifications in this probably incomplete or ongoing post by the author of the same page http://dikgaj.wordpress.com/islam-and-non-muslims/. You will see that what you deem to be misinterpretations are actually either recommendations in the Quran, the Hadiths or the Sunnah of the Prophet.

It is easier to be peaceful in Hindusim, Judaism which does not tell you to harm others physically. Christianity also advocates peace and does not tell yo to kill others instead forgive, BUT it does not explain the cruelty and vehemance with which the crusaders invaded other lands in the name of "freeing" land from people of other faith,

It is not easier to be peaceful in "Hinduism" for technically speaking, according to the official Indian historical schools, nothing called that ever existed - it is all a modern reconstruction by "Hindu nationalists/revivalists/fascists" - historically it was amotley collection of sects constantly in war with each other when they were not oppressing Dalits -(incidentally a modern term, did not exist before). However, there are plenty of examples that can be used to justify taking up arms and resorting to violence to restore "justice" - look at the "Udyog parva" and the "survey of the battlefield" section in the Mhabharata - latter more famous as the Geeta, and a favourite of early armed Indian insurrectionists against the British. As for Judaism, look at the Old Testament and you will find many contexts/claims of genocide or ethnic cleansing as enjoined by Yahweh. It will be diffficult to find violent reco in the New Testament - for this was formulated in a council of Church elders with a brief from the Roman emperor in desperate need to find and establish a religion that ensures submission to the central authority. But you can still find it if you look real hard - there is talk about setting up children against their parents, wives against husbands, etc. The start of the Crusades was not so much a one-sided without-justification attack from the Christian side - you have to read the narratives from both sides, all initial stories of atrocities by Muslims that was used as the provocation for the Crusades are quietly suppressed in popular media presented discourse.

Historicaly, I have not read about Judaism trying to grab land and keep on growing/spreading in the name of religion. They mingled with the country where ever they were. They did not attempt to 'rule' the land nor proselytize (I may be wrong, but this is what I have read about them till date.
The present state of israel is a desperate attempt to hold onto some piece of land they can call their own, and not be persecuted for being Jewish - an effect of holocaust.

Mostly true since the Greeks overran the Levant. But before this period, "violent immigration" cannot be ruled out - and pre-Islamic Arabian peninsula has some "nice" histories of "Judaic" as well as "Christian" over-enthusiasm to proselytize and "spread".

Especially about Islam, please, do read up non-sympathetic mostly unabridged translations of the Quran and the Hadiths and background history - like those from Guillaume/Margoliouth/Muir etc.. I read it in the original, and the punch and naked aggression of Qureyshi Arabic is only perhaps carried over one-thousandth in these translations. (Muir is too ashamed to translate and retain some parts and confesses it openly). Only after this come and talk about "misinterpretations" - otherwise it is a grievous insult to at least non-Muslims of India who were tortured, slaughtered, enslaved, raped, and exploited in true Sadistic enjoyment - all with perfect theological justifications as part of a consistent policy.

neelkamal · Post by **neelkamal** » 06 Dec 2008 04:06

Brihaspati, maybe you are right, and you could rattle of technicalities that I am completely unaware of. I do not claim to be the "Islamic/Christian" supporter in BR or the religios expert. I found that there is love for God in every religion. thats all..
these were my interpretations and undertandings.

Anyways, thanks for the reply, makes for a balanced reading as always in BR

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 06 Dec 2008 04:24

Brihaspati, The problem with your analysis is not with the analysis itself, which many thinking people around the world increasingly agree with, but in the implications. If we accept that Islam is the problem, then what is the solution to this problem? Clearly genocide is not acceptable, and I don't think you were suggesting that. I recollect you mentioning sometime back that the theologians of Islam and the educational / religious institutions controlled by them should be the targets. How would you propose going about doing that?

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 06 Dec 2008 04:31

deleted. OT

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 06 Dec 2008 04:32

It is not easier to be peaceful in "Hinduism" for technically speaking, according to the official Indian historical schools, nothing called that ever existed - it is all a modern reconstruction by "Hindu nationalists/revivalists/fascists" - historically it was amotley collection of sects constantly in war with each other when they were not oppressing Dalits -(incidentally a modern term, did not exist before). However, there are plenty of examples that can be used to justify taking up arms and resorting to violence to restore "justice" - look at the "Udyog parva" and the "survey of the battlefield" section in the Mhabharata - latter more famous as the Geeta, and a favourite of early armed Indian insurrectionists against the British.

I am not sure which "official Indian historical schools" you are referring to, but that is totally wrong and incomplete. Cannot disagree more with your "there are plenty of examples that can be used to justify taking up arms and resorting to violence to restore "justice". I understand that posts on the internet cannot take into account all aspects that a discussion in person can, but, there are accompanying texts that are not normally in the public domain that get deeper into texts that most people are exposed to. The Mahabharata and similar texts are mere introductory texts and have been misrepresented even by scholars such as Max Muller in the past. Current era "scholars" misrepresent it for a totally different reason.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 06 Dec 2008 04:33

Arjun exposing and ridiculing will work fine for those who live in Kaffirslums. They are the first victims and not aware of the hoax.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 06 Dec 2008 04:46

Neelkamal,
My apologies if I have offended you. It was rude of me to assume that you have not read up. I do find it really difficult to accept the viewpoint that "Islam" is "good", some individual "Muslims" are sometimes "bad". This has created lots of problems for the subcontinent - and since this is a response thread to terrorism, failing to consider the ideological background to Jihadi terror and the underlying long term agenda of Islam and only seeking solutions in dealing with individuals can lead us to very costly errors and perhaps disasters.

Arjun,

Yes I was not suggesting genocide - but I may not flinch from collateral damage during war.

However, on a more serious note - my "peacetime" policy has several components : primarily starting with the premise that Islam cannot be allowed to come in between the "state" and the "citizen", and no ideological claim of laws/practices/systems demanded by Muslims simply as being given by a supra-human unchallengeable authority and therefore beyond human intervention or modification - is acceptable. All laws are negotiable and immutable and subject to majority decisions - and therefore no guarantee of special protection - I guess it amounts to a regular uniform civil code. This is part of the strategy to remove the primary legitimacy and hold of the theologians on Muslim populations. Second is the weakening of the hold of theological preaching by making it compulsory for all citizens to have full education in an uniform national system of education, that stresses science and scientific logic, and unflinching representation of Indian history. If needed, this educational plan should aim at residential forms of education to remove children from their immediate social contexts, (and therefore further away from any competing Islamic education) and be exposed to alternatives of life goals, styles, obejectives and potentials.

Third, restrict funding of theological institutions to domestic jakat and fitra contributed by Muslims, and deducted at source (assuming we manage to give a bank account and social id to all citizens, and make all employment and financial transactions digitally processable) from income over and above normal income tax. Strict audit of accounts, and removal of teaching licenses to teach children unless the government is allowed to run the schooling with its own personnel, will greatly reduce the brainwashing capacity.

These are of course "peacetime" methods! (and they also involve other collateral system components needed to be developed - which are not impossible but need tremendous political will).

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 06 Dec 2008 04:49

so we go back to discuss Islam in Indian response

At this rate short (of length) beards and Brite we are all set be ready for Islamic scholarship and head of Madrasa Alia Schools.....

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 06 Dec 2008 04:59

NRaoji,

I am not sure which "official Indian historical schools" you are referring to, but that is totally wrong and incomplete. Cannot disagree more with your "there are plenty of examples that can be used to justify taking up arms and resorting to violence to restore "justice". I understand that posts on the internet cannot take into account all aspects that a discussion in person can, but, there are accompanying texts that are not normally in the public domain that get deeper into texts that most people are exposed to. The Mahabharata and similar texts are mere introductory texts and have been misrepresented even by scholars such as Max Muller in the past. Current era "scholars" misrepresent it for a totally different reason.

I agree with you though completely!

I was writing in the context of Neelkamals writings. I was merely referring to what I sarcastically refer to as the "Thaparite School of Indian History". You can look at what Romila Thapar writes about "Hinduism" in the hotly pushed "authentic/superb/magnificient" Penguin History of India (and other of her more election-rally flavour articles in Frontline for example). My personal viewpoint about this is far far from Thaparite position. The "urging to violence" in the Geeta - is completely different from the urging in the Quran or the Hadiths - but this is not probably the place for going deep into it. I merely stated the fact that early "revolutionaries" used to swear on the "Geeta" as prelude to "action" or going to meet their appointments with the hangman. I do think though that the message in the Geeta about "dispassionate" action is very very relevant for the current situation. I hope you do not misunderstand my limitations on a forum? My first recitation of the Geeta took place when I was 8 years old, when I was asked by my granddad on his death bed to do so for him. I do not interpret it as pure "dehumanization to create a Manchurian candidate"!

so we go back to discuss Islam in Indian response

At this rate short (of length) beards and Brite we are all set be ready for Islamic scholarship and head of Madrasa Alia Schools.....

No please! this came out only in the context of keeping the ideological angle behind terror firmly in our sights when formulating response strategies - and not simply think in terms of dealing with "individuals".

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 06 Dec 2008 05:07

brihaspati wrote:Third, restrict funding of theological institutions to domestic jakat and fitra contributed by Muslims, and deducted at source (assuming we manage to give a bank account and social id to all citizens, and make all employment and financial transactions digitally processable) from income over and above normal income tax. Strict audit of accounts, and removal of teaching licenses to teach children unless the government is allowed to run the schooling with its own personnel, will greatly reduce the brainwashing capacity.

Something I fully agree on, and has been on my mind for a very long time. We need to ban donations from abroad for theological institutions by law, claiming that religious institutions have a strong influence on the lives and ethics of Indian citizens, and it cannot be permitted that foreign parties may participate in giving direction to that influence. It is a subject of national security.

Upon violations of this provision, the Government reserves the right to bring forth a change in the management of the theological institution.

animesharma · Post by **animesharma** » 06 Dec 2008 05:13

Chidambaram admits to lapses, NSA may go
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Chid ... 799300.cms
At a briefing at the Maharashtra police headquarters, Chidambaram also tried to calm the nerves of the terror-struck city. "I am sorry Mumbai...I will try to improve effectiveness of security systems and address all problems concerned. I will strain every nerve to overcome the causes of these lapses."

At last, some response and a start in right direction. Was checking out some other sources which tells that US have handed over list of 4 ex-ISI officials to UNSC to be branded as terrorists.
Obama advisor is more than happy enough to declare pakistan open hand in terrorism. I may not advocate UPA's current policy,but if they indeed is planning to start with diplomatic war, they are getting a start here.

Waise, can any one justify why our police force officers are recruited by civil service exams? What good can a book-worm do to guns?

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 06 Dec 2008 05:16

Sometimes BRF is so far removed from reality....

Our man Rajesekhar Sonia Chappal ready of AP, started Haj Style Subsidy for Xtians , so with this kind of vote pandering wih public money, mixing relgion and governence.....

We talk of ,,,

I wonder if Kailash yatra which is in PRC will be subsidized

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 06 Dec 2008 05:21

Actually,
I know this from interaction with German nationals that they have to be registered with the state as belonging to some religion or officially register that they have come out of it. This religious tax as determined by religious bodies and the state, is collected at source by the government and then passed over to the religious body - who have to function under full audit and surveillance of the state. Muslims in Germany appear to have no problem with it - why should there be a sudden problem in India. This can be a part of a comprehensive package of internal measures to try and pre-empt sources of Jihad.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 06 Dec 2008 05:23

Waise, can any one justify why our police force officers are recruited by civil service exams? What good can a book-worm do to guns?

Just imagine all those guns without the brains!

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 06 Dec 2008 05:24

Old artilcle, so sorry if posted before.
India's Moment of Truth

It's response to the terrorist attacks will have a huge effect on its economic future.

As investors watch, the tragedy in Mumbai pits a bureaucracy-bound India against two obstacles to progress: terrorism and itself.

China isn't really India's biggest economic challenge right. India is. How its leaders respond to the Mumbai attacks will tell the business world what it wants and needs to know. Not just whether to pull back from India but how risky pushing forward will be.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 06 Dec 2008 05:28

Chidambaram admits to lapses, NSA may go
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Chid ... 799300.cms
At a briefing at the Maharashtra police headquarters, Chidambaram also tried to calm the nerves of the terror-struck city. "I am sorry Mumbai...I will try to improve effectiveness of security systems and address all problems concerned. I will strain every nerve to overcome the causes of these lapses."

Hopefully this is not the legendary Chidamish - "the financial crisis - nothing to worry bacche log - everything is alright - we will do eveything necessary to ensure liquidity, we have the means to do this...we will do this, be patient, have confidence - don't give in to negative sentiments"...zzzzzz

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 06 Dec 2008 05:29

brihaspati,

NP.

_____________________

On the topic of Islam, it is my feel that there is bound to be a "clash", there has to be - just applying logic. I really do not see t going any other way. The question is not IF, but WHEN. (googling, I just found a report on the UN human rights group about passing something to defend Islam/whatever. That is another fundamental problem with Islamists: they will use the democratic process to advance their own religious leanings. That is to be expected.)

This PM, on ABC News, they had a report about the 5 Blackwater guards that had killed Iraqi civilians about 15 months ago, these 5 are expected to report to the FBI by next Monday. I am not sure that that would be true for an Islamic country, and specially for Pakistan.

There was an article in the past day or two, where a Pakistani ex-official who stated that just because Pakistan hands over people to the US that India should not expect it. As he put it the relationships were not the same. It is a crime that Indian politicians, in the past 60 years, or even in the past 8 years, have not worked harder to bring India to that stature. That is 2009 India has not worked hard enough to de-hyphen itself from the regional players. Indian leaders, in general, have achieved somethings, at best, in spurts. There is a need for a consistent and smoother delivery of results at the national level.

There is another need too (many more than one I guess). A need for Indian politicians to stand up, to stand up even when world opinion may be against Indian stand. This waiting fro world consensus is fine, but, there are times when a deed has to be done and the required consensus arrived at.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 06 Dec 2008 05:39

Victor wrote:Old artilcle, so sorry if posted before.
India's Moment of Truth

I am not sure India will have the will to deal with "Islamic terrorism". As the Brookings video on the topic details (Riedel) that India has plenty of terrorist attacks. In fact, till 2007 India was #2 in terrorist related deaths - Iraq was #1. Riedel clearly states that in 2008 India is expected to be #1. I am not sure how many Indians know that, I for sure did not.

So, India will deal with "terrorism", but "Islamic terrorism" is going to be a very touchy issue. Beyond "bring them to book", "fitting reply", "rushed to the spot", etc, I do not expect much from a fast aging leadership. A leadership that cannot, perhaps in incapable of, build a vision.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 06 Dec 2008 05:48

brihaspati wrote:Actually,
I know this from interaction with German nationals that they have to be registered with the state as belonging to some religion or officially register that they have come out of it. This religious tax as determined by religious bodies and the state, is collected at source by the government and then passed over to the religious body - who have to function under full audit and surveillance of the state. Muslims in Germany appear to have no problem with it - why should there be a sudden problem in India. This can be a part of a comprehensive package of internal measures to try and pre-empt sources of Jihad.

That is factually wrong. The state collects church tax 'Kirchensteuer' only in the case one is registered as 'katholisch' or 'evangelisch'. The State does not collect tax from the Muslims for the mosques, in case you implied this.

In case you mean, that the Muslims do not object to 'Kirchensteuer', then that would be odd otherwise, because Muslims are relatively new in Germany and came as guest workers, etc, whereas 'Kirchensteuer' exists since 1919 in the German Constitution, so they did not have a veto on that.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 06 Dec 2008 06:19

There was an article in the past day or two, where a Pakistani ex-official who stated that just because Pakistan hands over people to the US that India should not expect it. As he put it the relationships were not the same. It is a crime that Indian politicians, in the past 60 years, or even in the past 8 years, have not worked harder to bring India to that stature. That is 2009 India has not worked hard enough to de-hyphen itself from the regional players. Indian leaders, in general, have achieved somethings, at best, in spurts. There is a need for a consistent and smoother delivery of results at the national level.

Pakistan has a different "relationship" with the USA because USA has the money to buy out all members of the Pak elite/military bigwigs and all their families included and more importantly USA has the capacity to pulverize the Pak military - a much easier task on the flat lands of Indus valley compared to nooks and crannies of the Hindu Kush. You are right, to gain such a status, India had to appear overwhelming militarily (and therefore economically) - in spite of winning battles, India did not decimate Pakistani regions and brutally liquidate its military when India had the chance, and therefore did not win the war. India has not shown the required ruthlessness that inspires obedience in Islamics.

There is another need too (many more than one I guess). A need for Indian politicians to stand up, to stand up even when world opinion may be against Indian stand. This waiting for world consensus is fine, but, there are times when a deed has to be done and the required consensus arrived at.

I do not have much hope for the current crop - they have come up mostly by sycophancy, only those can be sycophants who are themselves weak and need a patron to survive and rise. Waiting for world consensus is a sign of weakness. Making the world consent to action taken would have been a sign of strength. Just imagine a Gandhi or a Bose, under the thumb of the British, waiting for the world consensus to launch their "actions"! It is a crisis like this, this Jihadi terror that tears the fabric of national complacency, and brings forward required leadership, not necessarily from the existing elite. I would request you to be hopeful!

That is factually wrong. The state collects church tax 'Kirchensteuer' only in the case one is registered as 'katholisch' or 'evangelisch'. The State does not collect tax from the Muslims for the mosques, in case you implied this.

I know - I should have explained that a similar system of collection of religious tax as extended to all within India by the state itself should not come as a great surprise, especially since there are provisions within certain branches of Islamic law that gives the right of collection of zakat to the "state".

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 06 Dec 2008 07:33

ramana wrote:Before Pindi it will be Beijing, Shanghai and Canton that will fly if a nuke is used by TSP.

Actually, this is a very important and sobering statement and should not get lost in the deluge of posts.

This pakjabis loose cannon talk about firing no-clear bums is targeted to generate debate about the "new-clear flash point" in "south asia" for media theatrics.
In other relevant poll on this forum asks another important question - What is pak?

Pak is a disease and a symptom of failed ventures. The root cause and lifeline of pak is not in pindi. Pak is a loose collection of hitmen who hallucinate to be "islamic in its pure form" and are available for hire with lot of gifted fancy weapons and who have managed to drag large swathe of population to adapt stone age modus vivendi.

The frequent nuclear erections that pak experiences are artificial in nature, but abetted by stong dose of medicinal herbs provided by stake holders.

India cannot be constrained and be afraid of this frequent pak nuclear erections and fail to formulate policy. There are no guarantees that nuclear erections will reduce because all of sudden pak (an artifical venture) finds lots of money and friendship by the WKK. If there is a somewhat true erection due to the blue pills, then that situation is no longer a bilateral game between India and the "hitmen".

But why this penchant for pak to display its manliness every so often. World has wittnessed their mardness in Bangladesh and most recently in Mumbai where they were pretty successful in killing unarmed women and children. But still that is not sufficient, they have to flash their mardness every so often with new-clear erections, just to convince themselves that actually there is something.

samuel · Post by **samuel** » 06 Dec 2008 07:45

So, 39 pages later,
what is our collective wisdom on what India's response to Terrorism must be?
Pretty soon, we are going to be the top nation (as victim of terrorism).
So, how does this change. I mean not just pontificate about what nonactions the govt. will not take, but what we can do and what the nation must do...

I mean what we can do to force our government to fight a war against terror in the neighborhood and root it out. How can we imbibe our people with a sense of nationalism that makes such governance normal. What information do they need, what tools do they need.

Thoughts...?

animesharma · Post by **animesharma** » 06 Dec 2008 10:04

samuel wrote:So, 39 pages later,
what is our collective wisdom on what India's response to Terrorism must be?
Pretty soon, we are going to be the top nation (as victim of terrorism).
So, how does this change. I mean not just pontificate about what nonactions the govt. will not take, but what we can do and what the nation must do...

I mean what we can do to force our government to fight a war against terror in the neighborhood and root it out. How can we imbibe our people with a sense of nationalism that makes such governance normal. What information do they need, what tools do they need.

Thoughts...?

Even i have the same feeling that we are just discussing and not contributing to find a solution.
I request MODS to please take following steps in this thread:
1)Please end each day with a conclusion points from MOD side.
2)Please check posts which are not raising new questions, or helping in find answers
3)please don't ban me for what i am abt to post.

The Biggest problem India faces post-independence is not Pakistan, but The lack of teeth in its political class.
After having a discussion with some of my friends in past few days, and a detailed discussion with one of my friend passed out of NDA, i am hoping to post a faithful conclusions.

To reply to the question "India's Response to terrorism" (IMO the Title should have been "Response to India's Impotency" ) , Let us first start with why we are in this situation.

During discussion i was recalled some incidents in past.i would try to arrange them in points for reader's convenience.
1)INDIA'S COWARDY APPROACH TO ITS INTERNATIONAL PROBLEMS
Why India was made to surrender even after winning a war with Pakistan and lost its part of Kashmir. In the same incident, Indian PM died
mysteriously in Russia.
Why india failed to leave a mark, inspite of having muscle during China war.There was no DO-or die approach, infact it was DO-and Live approach.

2)THE PATIENCE
How the resilience of indian citizens that made the rulers monsters.
One of my friend, who hail from a big political family in a state is a staggering example for me. He led me to believe, that people of this class
can no longer think in the interest of its citizens.

3)THE PEOPLE WITH AUTHORITY
We may be appreciating Police force for its bravery in mumbai. but it is the atrocities by class of police men who helped in rise of Naxalism in
central India. The prolonged period of unchecked growth of fungus in Parliament has gives rise to inefficient Beaurocracy.

SO, why and how does these points relate to terrorism.
If you consider the initial stage of terrorism, its no bigger than a revolts as we see in Central india, naxalism. The other source of Terrorism is foreign factor. It was inability of our Politicians to check such menance that have led to this situation.
Similar was the case of pakistan in 80's as it is Now of Bangladesh. India is still unable to check BD interference. Why?

In this post, i am not trying to post any solution, but The circumstances we will have to face if we don't find any solution.

1)The civilian and uninformed class of civilian have lost all faith in the breed of netas. They will eat whatever you feed. We applaud them and appreciate them for their resilience. But if the present situation persists, The Word democracy will take a serious hit in biggest democracy of world.

2)It was an idea mooted by my NDA friend and agreed by many others. They believe india urgently need to reform,starting with reforming those who are in charge of reform.
They suggested many options, like Emergency, state by state reform and others. But They were no good then current steps taken by cngress.
My NDA friend feared, that if the situation continues, and fungus growth in unchecked. The situation may become as unstable as it is in Pakistan for over 50 years. He claimed that he is against replicating the Pakistan formula, but a time may come when we will have no other options.

Except for these options we were clueless for most of the questions and surprisingly, the most of the answers came from NDA guy.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 06 Dec 2008 10:22

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/striking-pak ... 810-3.html

Striking Pak: India's military options

Vishal Thapar / CNN-IBN

Published on Fri, Dec 05, 2008 at 22:45, Updated on Sat, Dec 06, 2008 at 03:27 in Nation section

New Delhi: India is ready to take on Pakistan for its alleged backing of terrorists, but can it take on the country militarily? Military options exist but exercising them isn't that simple, say experts.

India's military options against Pakistan include:

Surgical air strikes not just on infrastructure which supports terrorism, but also on politico-economic targets.

The use of artillery firepower to address alleged Pakistan Army support to infiltration and terror camps close to the Line of Control.

Commando operations to hit out at critical vulnerabilities of the Pakistan military and the Inter-Services Intelligence, which is suspected to have trained the terrorists who attacked Mumbai last week.

India's military establishment is confident that they can take on Pakistan. “Deterrence first and if that fails punishment. Air power is the best tool,” says Air Chief Marshal SP Tyagi, former chief of the Indian Air Force.

Strategists say any military action should aim at achieving a political impact. "Two or three Mirage 2000s (fighter jets) go and drop a bomb on the bridge on the Sutlej River—the bridge on Sutlej, a powerhouse in Gilgit—so that the people in Pakistan think that this (backing terrorism) is costing us. The elite in Pakistan then have to put pressure and say enough is enough," says strategic analyst Air Commodore (retired) Jasjit Singh.

But India will have to plan what to do after a military strike. Public opinion is exerting tremendous pressure on the government to be seen as imposing costs on Pakistan, but if India uses military power in anger it risks falling into a trap laid by those in Pakistan who use terrorism as statecraft.

“Some want India-Pakistan tension to increase and in this process the Pakistan army gets back into the saddle. Ashfaq Kayani (Pakistan military chief) then has every justification to say Musharraf II,” says strategic Analyst Air Vice Marshal Kapil Kak

Experts reckon that military force ought to be used only as the last resort and efforts mounted first to exert international pressure to make support for terror very costly for Pakistan.

Dhiman · Post by **Dhiman** » 06 Dec 2008 11:37

Islam
In my opinion it is logically incorrect to equate Islam with terrorism mainly because any such equation fails when one takes countries such as Indonesia, Malaysia, and Turkey in mind. While the middle-eastern Wabhabi mentality of "Islamic Nation" has made some encroachments into these countries and issues do pop up from time-to-time, it is best to classify the largely Muslim populations of these countries as moderates. Indonesia, even though largely Muslim, is a secular country like India. Turkey may even be classified as liberal and let's not forget Egypt which has explicitly banned overtly religious Islamic parties and made peace with Israel despite being a 90% Muslim country. There is a lot of bad blood between Unkil and Iran, but that is irrelevant as far as India is concerned. We have consistently enjoyed decent relations with Iran and do keep in mind that Iranians are staunchly anti-Taliban and have facilitated Indian efforts to help the Afghan Northern Alliance during Taliban occupation and in more recent times they continually facilitate the entry of Indian trade and aid into Afghanistan.

So in my opinion, it would be incorrect to say the problem lies in the "Islamic mentality." as a whole since there clearly are many moderate/liberal and democratic Islamic population centers that have not shown much inclination towards Jihadist violence along the lines of Pakistan. In this respect one can hardly equate Indian Muslims who have largely rejected extremism along the lines practiced in Pakistan just like Muslims in various moderate/liberal and democratic countries such as Indonesia, Malaysia, and Turkey.

Pakistan & Terrorism
Pakistan in 1970s and early 1980s was much more liberal than it is today. However, in the late seventies, the soviets occupied Afghanistan and the US started pouring money into Pakistan which in turn fomented a religious fanatic movement to fight the soviet army in Afghanistan with much success. In the middle of all this Zia-ul-haq, the then dictator of Pakistan, imposed Shariat law in Pakistan and started a process to turn the Pakistani Army into "Islamic Army" (or to be more correct a "Fanatical Army"). The close Jehadi-Pakistan Army-ISI nexus was formed during this time and the fanaticism of Pakistani Army and population was started during this time.

Much of the radicalization of the pakistani army and population is by design of its past leaders rather than a result of "Islamic ideology". On top of this Pakistani leaders have consistently failed to set direction for the country. Today, India wants to be a developed country (Kalam's much publicized vision 2020), China wants to be a superpower (their Communist manifesto) , USA wants to retain its role as a world leader (New American Century), but go ask the Pakistanis what they want their country to be in 20 years and you will get a complete blank look.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 06 Dec 2008 20:17

I think defence of Islam should be moved to the thread on Indic Perceptions: However since you have raised it - briefly :

In my opinion it is logically incorrect to equate Islam with terrorism mainly because any such equation fails when one takes countries such as Indonesia, Malaysia, and Turkey in mind. While the middle-eastern Wabhabi mentality of "Islamic Nation" has made some encroachments into these countries and issues do pop up from time-to-time, it is best to classify the largely Muslim populations of these countries as moderates. Indonesia, even though largely Muslim, is a secular country like India. Turkey may even be classified as liberal and let's not forget Egypt which has explicitly banned overtly religious Islamic parties and made peace with Israel despite being a 90% Muslim country.

These are exactly the countries which came under Islam rather late in the expansive phase of Islam. Modern Turkey was simply settled by the Turks under Ottomans, and the disastrous collapse of the Ottoman regime primarily attributed by the Turkish nationalists to degenerative practices imposed by Islamic imperialism and philosophy (murderous, fatricidal, harem politics for example because of numerous concubines and slaves) - which led to a nationalist reaction against this very Islamic culture, and the military around Kemal Atatturk decided to suppress the Islamic cultural symbols. But the soicety, the theologians of Islam continued in their long-term agenda and you can see that over time the basic ternds and agenda of Islam reasserted - with popular elections sending increasing proportions of pro-Islamic orthodoxy back to power. For Malaysia, you can read about the administrative support behind conversion of non-Muslims, or intervene actively to disrupt "mixed marriages", and the strong discouragement of any syncretic tendencies. Malaysian Islamic terrorists have been operating across the border into Thailand. As for Indonesia, there has been increasing legal measures to impose the Sharia law and conformity to Islamic culture on non-Muslims especially on remnant Hindus and Buddhists.

In all Islamic countries, imposition of the Sharia law is a good indicator that the country is going to produce, resource, and generate Islamic terror and Jihad for export into non-Muslim neighbours - this is the pattern, for it indicates that Islamic theologians have managed to gather suffiicient society support in favour of the core doctrines of Islam - which are very clear about the necessity of violent Jihad as Allah enjoined. Don't leave out Iran, as the period of bonhomie coincided with the "liberalization" phase of Iranian parliamentary politics - and recently the orthodox fanatics have regained the popular vote. Iran has consistently supported the Hezbollah - so don't asume Iran to be different.

So in my opinion, it would be incorrect to say the problem lies in the "Islamic mentality." as a whole since there clearly are many moderate/liberal and democratic Islamic population centers that have not shown much inclination towards Jihadist violence along the lines of Pakistan. In this respect one can hardly equate Indian Muslims who have largely rejected extremism along the lines practiced in Pakistan just like Muslims in various moderate/liberal and democratic countries such as Indonesia, Malaysia, and Turkey.

All of these countries have records of producing home-grown terrorists, and these democracies are increasingly supporting Islamic orthodoxy as manifested on all citizens - if you carefully and honestly compare the timelines of developments in Islamic countries you will see that the point at which Sharia becomes the state law or becomes state law without declaring formally- indicates that soon these societies will generate terror.

Pakistan & Terrorism Pakistan in 1970s and early 1980s was much more liberal than it is today.

Just say this to Bangladeshi Liberation war participants, or the common Bangladeshi who did not particpate directly in that struggle, or the Hindu refugees who took shelter in India. Read Ayesha Jalal's quotation of Pakistani society's reaction to reports of rape by Pakistani soldiers and civilians before whitewashing Pakistani society of the 70's as liberal.

In the middle of all this Zia-ul-haq, the then dictator of Pakistan, imposed Shariat law in Pakistan and started a process to turn the Pakistani Army into "Islamic Army" (or to be more correct a "Fanatical Army"). The close Jehadi-Pakistan Army-ISI nexus was formed during this time and the fanaticism of Pakistani Army and population was started during this time.

Why was it necessary for the Pakistani establishment to go for Sharia Law at all? was it militarily important? No - you simply do not read the expressions of Islamic objectives voiced throughout Pakistan history as expressed by its academics - that the British should have restored power to the Muslims and only Islam can unite the subcontinent - this was there right from the start. The US backing for a different purpose was simply utilized to achieve this fundamental and long-standing Pakistani objective.

Much of the radicalization of the pakistani army and population is by design of its past leaders rather than a result of "Islamic ideology". On top of this Pakistani leaders have consistently failed to set direction for the country....but go ask the Pakistanis what they want their country to be in 20 years and you will get a complete blank look.

This is a complete lack of exposure to Islamic history, and only partially true - this radicalization is pushed for by the theologians of Islam, not necessarily by state leaders - and they succeed when the rulers see that Islamic support and theologian influence is too strong to ignore to stay on in power. Please try to read original Islamic texts and you will see the key in that Islam does not separate politics from religion, and concentrates both authority in the theological leadership. If we fail to undertsand this key point, we will never be able to respond properly to terror sourced from Islamic ideology.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Dec 2008 00:23

News item

Chidambaram admits intel failure, NSA may go

The more I think of the total picture MKN did his job but got flummoxed when the ISI delayed the attack by two months. Still the security was kept till one week before the attacks at the Taj. As reports say it was removed due to guests complaining.

What he should have done is keep the Marcos and the NSG on alert as these are national assets. But even Homer nods.

I dont want him to resign anymore.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Dec 2008 00:35

X-posted ....
Symbols are important. I welcome this:

Support for a black ribbon protest on Bakr-Eid on Tuesday, December 9, against the Mumbai terror attack has gathered more momentum. Eminent Muslims from the corporate world, cinema, theatre, media and advertising have registered their strong protest against the destruction of India’s secular values in the name of Islam.

“We the Muslims of India condemn terror in every land, in every divisive form,” is the emphatic message. The issue has brought together Muslims across sects and factions. Several groups of imams have already come out strongly against the attacks.

Many citizens from the minority community believe that the larger purpose behind the 26/11 strikes was to trigger communal violence. They hope the event will mark a historical moment, one that empowers ordinary Muslims and brings them freedom from being either suspect or victim.

Followed by a collection of quotes from eminent personalities.
Times of India

Mohammad Azharuddin | cricketer | The protest will send out a strong message to the world. Everyone wants to live in a safe environment, and terrorism in the name of Islam has gone on for too long. If we love each other, we can tackle any kind of calamity. Respect for one another at every step can make sure no hatred breeds among people. To that end, the unified symbolism on Bakr-Eid across the nation is a movement of sorts.

Feroz Khan | theatre personality | The conflict is between values of ‘live and let live’ and those who want to die and kill. The young terrorist caught saw no hope in life and saw fortune in death. It’s a battle between civil society and barbaric forces that want India to erupt in violence. A shattered civil society becomes easy hunting ground for terrorists. 26/11 could have polarized the nation. To that end, the black ribbon gesture on Bakr-Eid is significant.

Waheeda Rehman | actress | Indian Muslims are together at last. India has seen terrorism for many years, but we are together in protesting on this scale for the first time. It is easy to break a single stick, but all together, the bundle of sticks will not break. If we all think we are first human beings then Indians, and then let religion and family come in, no one can harm our nation.

Mohammed Khan | adman | India’s Muslims are expressing complete contempt and abhorrence for the dastardly attack. The silent majority among Muslims is making itself heard. The protest is an outpouring of the community’s outrage at the crimes perpetrated in the name of Islam. It may be overdue but now the moment is upon us. Shias, sunnis, maulvis and maulanas of all sects and factions of Muslim society are speaking in one voice.

Qari Md Mian Mazhari | journalist | The government can continue to do whatever it is doing, but we, the people, will do our bit as citizens. Mulk ki security ke liye hum kissi se samjhauta nahin karenge . The issue is not only about a community but of the nation. For national integration, the role of the dargahs is essential. Religious leaders are coming forward at the nation’s hour of need to express unified solidarity with the people.

SM Rahman | corporate honcho | The movement is in response to the growing realization that this brand of professed Islam is not our religion. The sheer scale of the protest, cutting across all strata, shows unequivocal solidarity. In no uncertain terms, we are saying, first as Indians, then as Muslims, how reprehensible this wanton act was.

Salim Khan | screenplay writer | The protest will strengthen ordinary Muslims who face the brunt of a terror attack’s fallout. Veteran cops such as Hemant Karkare and others have marvellously dealt with the underworld. But in Mumbai, they were attacked. The attackers didn’t just keep bombs and run away. They meant to attack humanity, face to face. They killed and destroyed. How dare these men call themselves Muslim? Islam has peace woven into its greeting, how can terrorists call themselves followers of Islam? They don’t bother with the Prophet’s words, so they have no right to call themselves Muslim. This is not our religion.

Jaaved Jaffrey | actor | There is nothing Islamic about terrorism. Terrorists completely misrepresent Islam. What’s happening around the world is terrorism, not Islamic terrorism. In fact, the first of the Prophet’s traits that greets the reader is that he is benevolent and merciful. Our religion has to be protected from terrorists and that’s the message of the protest.

Syed Kalbe Rushaid Rizvi | cleric | We can’t bring back the lives lost or restore grieving mothers their children after the attacks. But we can express enmity for the enemy. The black ribbon appeal is in empathy and solidarity with the grieving families of those attacked and to demonstrate our hatred for the killers. Our appeal has been received by Muslims across India’s 7 lakh and more villages, cutting across the many sects and followings. Bakr-eid will see the world’s first such protest on this scale.

asprinzl · Post by **asprinzl** » 07 Dec 2008 01:26

Folks, there is a military dimension to the whole "retaliation" thing but it is extremely limited and complicated. Most striking aspect is that the long pathetic negligence by the government is now coming back to bite the government. The government really need the military now but they realize the long neglect is staring them in their faces.

1) You cannot hit one or several terrorist/military targets and think things will return to normalcy.
2) You cannot destroy a bridge or a canal or a dam and think the same.
3) You cannot send in a commando detachment or two or several and comeback with normalcy in the air.

Why? Because the hatred for the Kafir and especially for the Hindu is so poisonous in the Pakistani military heirachy that as long as they are reduced to having a rock in their hands they would throw that at the Hindu. These are zombie like fanatics. They have little care for their own peoples' welfare. They have the "book". That's all that matters. And they will retaliate no matter what.

Indian military response has to be so quick, so swift, so destructive and so widespread that they are not even able to throw their underwears back at India. It cannot be 99.999% effective. It has to be 100% effective. No a single military plane (transports, fighters, bombers) should be able to survive and take off to the sky. Every litre of fuel (rocket fuel, jet fuel etc) must be in flames or flowing into the grown. Every rockets in their arsenal (fully assembled, partly assembled) their parts, machinaries that make or assemble them must be reduced to embers. Every long range artillery pieces, howitzers, warships, gunboats, submarimes must be destroyed or sunk with their ordnances. Every ordnance factories, research labs, weapons storages must be burned to the ground. All these must be done under two hours and must not be done in Sindh alone or Punjab alone but all over Pak-Is-Satan. The destruction of these materiel and the elimination of the officer corp of the military and ISI must be so swift that they should have no means to strike back even with their panties.

For this to happen Indian strike forces (mostly airpower) must come from the direction of iran, from sea, from Afghanistan and from India.

Can this be done? If yes, then there is a military option. Otherwise, there is no military option.

Hoping that some military help would come from the US or Israel is a non-starter. Not gonna happen. Iran is a mortal danger to Israel (because the Iranian leaders have declared so of their intention more than twice) and yet to strike Iran is giving enough sleepless nights for the Israeli military and political leaders. Pakistan is much further away. Bigger headache. Israel is too far away, small population, politically weak and militarily limited.

After 9/11, America had all the evidence of Pakistani-Taliban-AlQaeda complicity. Yet, they went after the Taliban-AlQaeda combo because these guys were a less difficult target than Pakistan.

Politicians are not strategic thinkers. They are selfish. They care about power. American politicians are the same. Their attention span is short. Their domestic situation is complicated now. Indian people will not vote for them. It is the American people who do that. As much as this terror attack is big news but it is secondary compared to the financial meltdown and auto-factory closures in America. If things didn't move within two weeks expcet nothing more in days after that. Pakistan is too far removed from USA. Paks respect American power. Most of all they love to be bribed, bought over and guboed by the Americans. For them being guboed by Gora is a honor.

Not so in the case of the Indians. Totally different ball game. Indians are "darker, shorter and rice eaters". To be touched by an India is a disgrace for the fair skinned and Arab loving Pak. By attaching themselves to the Arab, they have elevated themselves to the level of "Spiritual Gora".

As much as moral and verbal support from the EU to tribals in Kiribati, in the end this is India's problem ALONE. Waiting for an International response is like waiting for manna to fall from sky. It is not coming. It will never come because it never came in the past. At the same the government fiddled and neglected the navy, airforce and the army. All these three elements that the government could have counted on.

During Kargil, Indian airpower had preety good odds against the Paks. Their navy plane was shot down inside their own territory and they did not do diddly squat. They were weak then. Whats the odds now with increased F-16s in their arsenal.

When the Indian navy had the upper hand, it stood still for lack of political will in Delhi while Noko and Chinese ships were bringing in missiles and nukes. Whats the odds now with the lone aircraft carrier more often in the dock than on sea patrol.

So airstrikes are out. Commando raids are out. Military invasions are out. Whats left? Yes.....the terrorists strikes inside Pakistan. Look.....the Pakibans are already doing half the job now without India asking for it albeit in their limited ways. Just increase their scope, bigger target lists, more locations and more volunteers. For all the anger and reverberations, at least this much India can do.
Avram

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 07 Dec 2008 01:53

India is twenty years behind in countering TSP assymetric warefare.
The leadership of the Armed forces and any strategic advisors have totally failed to facilitate a creative, timely and crippling counter force for the assymetric warfare being waged.

So do not expect Marshal Zukov type T-90 racing to Islamabad or Lawhore.

This is a fact we did not wake since 1999 nor are we fully awake now.

**********

Meanwhile The French and others

Chirac Reasserts French Nuclear Weapons Policy
President Jacques Chirac has set out the post 9/11 roles for French nuclear weapons, which are now intended to deter "leaders of States who would use terrorist means against us" and those "who would consider using, in one way or another, weapons of mass destruction

Speaking at the headquarters of the Strategic Air and Maritime Forces at Ile Longue, the French President puts great emphasis on the value and salience of nuclear weapons, describing them in language similar to that used in NATO's Strategic Concept, as the "ultimate guarantor of our security". Nuclear weapons give France the "ability to keep our freedom to act, to control our policies, to ensure the durability of our democratic values."

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 07 Dec 2008 02:29

Can anyone shed some light on the resistance that IAF may have to face if it carries out surgical strikes inside pukiland , like, F16s , J10s , radars etc ? How will Sukhoi 30MKI or Mirage 2000s fare against the puki line of resistance ?Any ideas ?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Dec 2008 02:35

durgesh wrote:Can anyone shed some light on the resistance that IAF may have to face if it carries out surgical strikes inside pukiland , like, F16s , J10s , radars etc ? How will Sukhoi 30MKI or Mirage 2000s fare against the puki line of resistance ?Any ideas ?

Durgesh, the notion of surgical strikes is when there is no air defence and the radars have been destroyed. So first those have to be taken out or blinded and the airbases destroyed or atleast the runways cratered so that there is no air defence and then the 'surgical' strikes take place. So in case of TSP it has to be all out war. One of the TSP red lines is if their air force is destroyed or armed forces are degraded among other Hiranya Kahsyap proclamations.

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 07 Dec 2008 02:49

ramana wrote:

Durgesh, the notion of surgical strikes is when there is no air defence and the radars have been destroyed. So first those have to be taken out or blinded and the airbases destroyed or atleast the runways cratered so that there is no air defence and then the 'surgical' strikes take place. So in case of TSP it has to be all out war. One of the TSP red lines is if their air force is destroyed or armed forces are degraded among other Hiranya Kahsyap proclamations.

I don't think GOI is prepared for all out war and even Unkil does not want that . So , put simply , we are not going to have surgical strikes even . Back to square one .

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Dec 2008 02:52

No-No. A response is needed after this. Cant blow it away like before. Am sure the Chiefs are burning midnight oil if not whisky. There will be response.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 07 Dec 2008 03:00

surgical strikes following decapacitation strikes., ensuring no worms are left to offspring for next generation of teeyespeeite.

for those who think, we wont fight, check history. this is the final war! a JUST WAR. krsna has already pressed his toe thumb!

a_kumar · Post by **a_kumar** » 07 Dec 2008 03:25

It has become generally accepted now that PakiArmy blackmailing US (moving 100,000 to Eastern Theatre) checkmates US. But US has everything to gain in that case and so does Afghanistan.

1. So far, US's problem is that it has been forced to let PA chase the Queda/Taliban in NW/FATA. But, as they are doing on occasion, they would prefer going in themselves to hunt the vermin. So if PA moves the troops to Eastern border, they can say "If you don't clean up NW/FATA, we will"
2. Another possiblity is the vermin become holy warriours of PA on Eastern theatre thus, going inland into Pakjab and Kashmir. ie...away from Afghanistan.

So, I am thinking US wants PA to move the troops out!!

PS :btw.. haven't heard much from Karzai on Mumbai.. did I miss it in the flood?

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 07 Dec 2008 03:29

ramana wrote:No-No. A response is needed after this. Cant blow it away like before. Am sure the Chiefs are burning midnight oil if not whisky. There will be response.

Should that not have been done at least two years ago, now only sipping whisky as to who gets the big slice of the cake of action?

IA , or IAF or IN

Or IAF + IN + IA elite squads?

vasu_ray · Post by **vasu_ray** » 07 Dec 2008 03:38

Avram, appreciate your lucidity, modern day blitzkrieg is possible making all the red lines disappear, however 100% success isn't adding to which we have the following counter weights

1) Any loose nuke or missile, you would still need a ABM system and higher SIGINT/HUMINT capabilities, does anybody including the chinese have the exact numbers on nuclear material and hardware in Pakistan?

2) Indian political leadership is a spectrum and cannot make point decisions

3) US intelligence has the habit of exposing Indian moves not in line with US policy leaving less as a surprise, that is all the more reason that Indian govt. sought to take Ms. Rice into confidence

4) Economy

This statement by some Pakistanis, "India is not US, Pakistan is not Afganistan" is somewhat true now, however may not be in the near future with India growing economically and in strategic military capabilities, while cancer spreads within Pakistan

Until then low intensity wars should be taken to the terrorists bases and camps, 'Kashmir includes POK yet we never fought insurgency brewing there'

Dhiman · Post by **Dhiman** » 07 Dec 2008 04:30

In all Islamic countries, imposition of the Sharia law is a good indicator that the country is going to produce, resource, and generate Islamic terror and Jihad for export into non-Muslim neighbours

I am no fan of Sharia law (as demonstrated in Afghanistan and Pakistan) or the ~800 year long Islamic rule in India. There is definitely a history of violence associated with Islam and as a civilization we need to counter it (lest it reasserts itself in the form of another ~800 years of Islamic rule in India).

However, despite whatever history their might have been, there clearly are, at present, liberal and moderate Islamic population centers and any "Global war on (Islamic) terrorism" must also encourage these liberal and moderate elements of Islamic society and form support linkages between them while isolating those that show tendency towards extremism. One cannot realistically or ethically expect to rid this planet of Islam.

Islam is not alone in its expression of violence and violent ideology. Historically, Christianity has come pretty close (if not exceeded) the levels of violence shown by Islamic societies. Unkil's war-on-terror in Iraq being a prime recent and ongoing example where more than 100,000 innocent civilians have been killed by bombs falling out of sky.

While I am certainly not claiming that Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Jainism, etc are not capable of violence, historically the level of violence perpetrated by followers of Abrahamic religions has far exceeded that of any other religious group and has often leaned towards genocide. So there is a good case to be made that Christianity has been as violent as Islam if not more. Yet, there are liberal/moderate elements in Islamic societies and any war on Islamic extremism must minimize the collateral damage on these liberal/moderate elements.

At the same time we must not be lulled into not taking a punitive military action in order to levy a cost on those that perpetrate terrorism as a future deterrent since violence is the language that these extremist elements understand well.

Iran has consistently supported the Hezbollah - so don't asume Iran to be different.

Irrelevant, don't care, don't give a damn, not our concern as Indians, and don't want it to be our concern. However, personally, I would definitely equate much of the policies of Israel (which is pretty much a religious state) with the state-sponsored-terrorist policies that come out of TSP.