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PostPosted: 09 Dec 2008 04:14 
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With such incompetence... who needs enemies?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7771243.stm

Quote:
Anger at 'blown' Mumbai arrests
By Subir Bhaumik
BBC News, Calcutta

Intelligence agents fear Mukhtar Ahmed's family is at risk

Questions have been raised in India over the police handling of the arrest of a man suspected of handling mobile phone cards used by Mumbai's attackers.

Calcutta police arrested Mukhtar Ahmed for procuring SIM cards for the group without knowing that he was an undercover operative.

He was on a long-term mission with police in Indian-administered Kashmir.

Senior intelligence sources say a "high-value asset" has been blown and his family put at risk.

'Huge catch'

Mukhtar Ahmed has told those questioning him that he was working for police intelligence in Indian-administered Kashmir.

His brief was to procure SIM cards for Lashkar-e-Taiba fighters and pass the numbers to police so that all calls from those numbers could be monitored by intelligence.

A high-value asset has been blown, a major operation has been screwed up

Intelligence Bureau official

Calcutta police officials admit that Mr Mukhtar has given them details of his work but say they can release him only if police in Indian-administered Kashmir make a formal request in writing.

Police there may be reluctant to do so as intelligence operatives rarely own up to undercover operations publicly.

Mr Mukhtar's identity is now in the public domain and police in Indian-administered Kashmir are neither owning up to his work nor disowning him.

The senior federal Intelligence Bureau official said: "This exposure will put Mukhtar and his family at great risk.

"Why should the Calcutta police leak his name to the press when we had told them categorically to keep shut on the entire Mumbai investigations?

"They thought they had a huge catch and they wanted publicity."

He said Calcutta police should have checked with Indian-administered Kashmir police once they arrested Mr Mukhtar.

"A high-value asset has been blown, a major operation has been screwed up," said the Intelligence Bureau official.

He said a SIM card recovered from the mobile of one of the Mumbai gunmen, called Ismail, was among those supplied to Lashkar by Mukhtar Ahmed.

"But it was only switched on once before the attack and hardly used because Ismail got into action and was killed by police soon after," the official said.

Mr Mukhtar and Tousif Ahmed, the Calcutta trader who procured the SIM cards for him, may be handed over to Mumbai police because they are wanted in connection with the attack.


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PostPosted: 09 Dec 2008 09:42 
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Why do we release names and whereabouts of arrestees without doing investigation. Not only arrestees we also release names and addresses of witnesses too. :evil:

when will we learn basics of common sense. :(


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PostPosted: 09 Dec 2008 10:29 
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GOI has something called Joint Cipher Bureau. They used to advertise in the UPSC ads long time ago unless it got wound up as a CBM.


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PostPosted: 09 Dec 2008 13:11 
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Rajiv Mathur, the new IB chief.

LINK
LINK2

Has he been made Officer on Special Duty, for the interim period.


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PostPosted: 09 Dec 2008 19:44 
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Absolutely ridiculous. There should be a gag order on all police personnel, intelligence personnel, and defence personnel. This business of running ahead and trying to grab the credit is just past the pale. It cannot be allowed to pass.


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PostPosted: 09 Dec 2008 22:25 
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^ True. This has gone too far. Government should now think of punishing public servants who leak information. Specially in such 'national' level cases.


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PostPosted: 10 Dec 2008 16:17 
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The report on the "No Security Adviser's" partying while Bombay was burning and thus delaying the CMG meeting at the PM's residence was truly shameful.If the man has any decency he would've resigned on the very strong grounds of failure of his command,especially as he took over all the arms of national intelligence RAW,the IB and headed the JIC too.He centralised all intel into one almighty being,like an "intel czar".He behaved in recent times,more like a political fixer than an NSA,spending more time abroad and allegedly indulging in political spying rather than coordinating hard core intel.The tamasha of his resignation "not being accepted",was a venal piece of work at play.His "gaonwallah" attitude towards appointments for RAW and the IB,individuals on the verge of retirement from his own state,makes him guilty to the charge of ethnic nepotism.How the rot that has set in can be stopped and then repaired and how much time it will take is the moot point.If we are going to have a military spat with Pak,then intelligence is the key to victory.It is preferable that "humint" (RAW,IB,etc.) assets come under civilian heads,while all technological intel outfits come under military men,who have the experience and expertise of cutting-edge/bleedin' edge technology.Some reports earlier said that RAW was not wanting to let go of the ARC,better under a tech outfit.A close look at how the US/UK organise their entire intel setups would be a worthwhile exrcise.


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PostPosted: 10 Dec 2008 20:25 
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Quote:
Rivalry between IB, RAW, MI costing India dear
''Rivalry between the three major intelligence agencies, RAW, IB and MI, has done a lot of damage not only to the agencies but also to the nation.''

India is paying a heavy price for differences among its intelligence agencies as they rarely exchange inputs among themselves, say insiders. The Mumbai terror attack is a case in point.

The country has three main intelligence agencies - the Intelligence Bureau (IB) for collection of internal and counter intelligence, the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) for external intelligence, and Military Intelligence (MI) that collects military-related inputs.

"Rivalry between the three major intelligence agencies, RAW, IB and MI, has done a lot of damage not only to the agencies but also to the nation. The reluctance to share intelligence is the bane of all agencies, at least in India," Major General (retd) V.K. Singh, who has retired from RAW and has seen the intelligence agencies from close quarters, said.

"The proclivity to take the credit has given rise to the unpardonable trend in every agency of keeping vital intelligence close to its chest until it is disclosed to someone important enough in the political hierarchy, sometimes even the prime minister," Singh said.

Singh in his book, "India's External Intelligence - Secrets of Research and Analysis Wing", noted that rivalry between IB and RAW was perhaps unavoidable in view of their past history and functions.

"An Indian recruited by a foreign militant group is definitely the concern of the IB. When he is taken across the border for training he becomes the interest of RAW. When he re-enters India and carries out strikes against the military installations in Jammu and Kashmir, it becomes the worry of MI.

"Should he be handed over from one agency to the other every time he crosses a border, or should all keep a watch on him together? Should the army and IB be allowed to monitor trans-border radio and satellite links, which strictly fall within the purview of RAW?

"These are the questions that have no clear answers and only add to the blame game between the intelligence agencies," Singh said.

According to former IB joint director Maloy Krishna Dhar, RAW's reluctance to share information with the IB is legendary. There have also been instances where personality clashes have deterred effective coordination between the national security advisor (NSA) and RAW chiefs.

A.K. Mitra, former director general of the Border Security Force (BSF), said: "Not sharing intelligence information is a problem between all the agencies."

"There is no justification for holding critical information and not sharing the critical information with other agencies or security establishments. The nation is paying a price for it. If we want to thwart terror attacks, we must pull up our socks and bring the guilty officers to book," Mitra told IANS.

After the Nov 26 terror attack on Mumbai that lasted 60 hours and in which 172 people were killed, the three agencies took potshots at each other.

RAW and IB claimed they had given information specifying the places and the time when the terrorists could strike. But the state government and the navy denied any actionable inputs. The cabinet secretary is now looking into the matter.

According to government sources, the Joint Committee of Intelligence (JIC), which analyses intelligence data from the IB, RAW and the directorates of military, naval and air intelligence and works under the National Security Council, has failed to live up to expectations.

"It is almost defunct and the chiefs of intelligence agencies have very rarely met under the JIC roof in the last two years," said a source.

Quoting the report of the Kargil Review Committee in his book, Singh said: "The army never shared its intelligence with the other agency or JIC".


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PostPosted: 10 Dec 2008 22:13 
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http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Chin ... 818807.cms

China blocked move to ban Jamaat thrice

China s asymmetric war against India !


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PostPosted: 10 Dec 2008 22:59 
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kit wrote:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/China_blocked_move_to_ban_Jamaat_thrice/articleshow/3818807.cms

China blocked move to ban Jamaat thrice

China s asymmetric war against India !


Pukiland's asymmetric strategy has come back to haunt it badly and has made it an international pariah (Madeline Albright actually called it an international migraine). It is only a matter of time before the Puki frankenstien monster, the prime tool of *deleted* asymmetric warfare against India comes back to haunt it in Xinjiang's Uighur populace. :evil: :twisted: :((

KAR BURA TO HO BURA - Ancient Indian Wisdom


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PostPosted: 10 Dec 2008 23:41 
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kit wrote:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/China_blocked_move_to_ban_Jamaat_thrice/articleshow/3818807.cms

China blocked move to ban Jamaat thrice

China s asymmetric war against India !



There is no need for terrorist organizations to attack Chinese citizens - their own Communist Government is doing it so well! :twisted: :twisted:


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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2008 22:18 
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Now that their own tushy is going to be under fire, lets see how they behave.


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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2008 00:01 
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Piglet rumor mongering :

India seeks Israeli help, commandos reach Delhi ‘Islamabad to use all options if attacked’ - Pakistan Observer December 07

Quote:
Islamabad—An Israeli intelligence source has reported on Saturday that India has sought Isralei help and support in operational and intelligence planning to conduct Commando attacks on three to five Pakistani targets.

According to a report the Indian leaders “showed the outline of this plan to US secretary of State Condoleezza Rice when she visited New Delhi last week.

“She commented guardedly that the United States was strongly opposed to a full-scale war between India and Pakistan but not averse to limited counter-terror operations” the Debka intelligence report claimed.

The report filed on Saturday evening added that “Israel is willing to help the Indians carry out punitive forays into Pakistan because it has its own scores to settle for the brutal murder of six Israelis in Mumbai’s Chabad Center.

The report claimed that four Pakistani locations are to be targeted including suspected training sites in Azad Kashmir as well as probably near Lahore and Multan and near Gwadar close to Iranian border.

It is surprising to note that the Israeli claim came within hours of a report in Washington Post that “The United States turned up the pressure on Pakistan”.

Rice’s visit to Pakistan followed a trip to India on Wednesday and came after a visit to Pakistan by Adm. Michael Mullen, chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff.

U.S. media reports also warned that next 48 hours were “very crucial” and suggested that Pakistan should take “urgent moves” to arrest those named. It was also reported that Indian wanted former ISI chief detained and investigated.

A senior Pakistani official commenting on Israeli report warned that “any mis-adventure would have very very serious consequences for the whole region.” He also warned that Pakistan “will not be caught by surprise” and added “we are constantly monitoring the situation and considering to take all option in case any attack in carried out by foreign forces be it India or its allies”.

Reliable sources told Pakistan Observer that Pakistan has already notified its “friends and allies” that any irresponsible action from India would be responded with “full force”. It may also be noted that Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee General Tariq Majid held an important meeting with Chinese Ambassador in Islamabad Saturday and discussed the “current situation” in the region.

According to a reliable report a group of Israeli commandoes arrived in India on Saturday night and were dispatched to an unknown destination. Meanwhile a defence source added that Islamabad was closely monitoring the situation and was aware of air and naval movements in the region.

Sources also fear that missiles may also be fired from sub-marines off the Indian Ocean or Arabian Sea. Meanwhile a former Chief of Army Staff has expressed fear that India might launch “surgical attacks” inside Pakistan.

Regional defence watchers warned that “taking advantage of the rising tension Israeli may also launch a series of air attack on Iranian suspected nuclear sites.”

The mention of Gwadar and areas close to Iranian border by the Israeli intelligence source was somewhat surprising.


All BS to feed to their gullible domestic audience. They cant dream having rats inside Israeli intelligence.


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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2008 00:03 
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phewww......
http://www.metimes.com/Politics/2008/02/06/indias_intel_chief_lacking_intelligence/9650/print/

The controversial head of India's external intelligence agency, Ashok Chaturvedi, has come under the spotlight for a series of embarrassing faux pas, a major handicap when he is meant to keep the country's leaders abreast of events.
His list of public embarrassments has littered the pages of not only the Indian newspapers, but perhaps more embarrassing for the world's largest democracy, Chaturvedi is also becoming the focus of the international press as well.

Prior to being named head of India's intelligence services, the Research and Analysis Wing, known as RAW, Chaturvedi had been described as "serially paranoid and too incompetent to function. And in any other intelligence agency he would probably have been drummed out a long time ago," according to extremely reliable sources, who for obvious reasons asked not to be named.

India's intelligence agency operates on the basis of seniority and time spent in the organization, which has helped Chaturvedi get promoted. He benefited further because his relative, B.K. Chaturvedi, is the Indian cabinet secretary and a member of the promotion panel that selects the head of the intelligence organization.

"Since becoming head of RAW at the start of 2007, the scandal prone Chaturvedi has overseen the systematic dismantling of the organization which appears to be falling apart at the seams, much to the pleasure of the agency's rivals in Pakistan and China," one of the same sources told the Middle East Times.

The list of humiliating gaffes Chaturvedi has incurred in the last year could be turned into a multi-volume novel. In a number of important meetings, Chaturvedi did not even know who he was actually meeting. On one particular occasion, Timothy J. Keating, the commander of the United States Pacific Command made an official trip to India in August 2007 and met a number of senior Indian defense and intelligence chiefs including Chaturvedi. However, Chaturvedi did not seem to know who Keating was, and much to everyone's embarrassment kept referring to Keating as John Negroponte, the U.S. deputy Secretary of State.

In another episode, before leaving on a trip to China in January, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh asked Chaturvedi for a briefing about his perspectives of the current senior leadership in China. Instead of delegating the task to the China section within RAW, Chaturvedi attempted to put together his own report which talked about Jiang Zemin and Zhu Rongji, the former president and premier respectively, both of whom retired in 2003.

Manmohan Singh was perplexed, to put it mildly, as to why the head of his intelligence agency had such limited intelligence, particularly on a country India needed to keep close tabs on.

Furthermore, Chaturvedi is notorious for his coarse and abrasive manner. Afghan President Hamid Karzai even complained to Manmohan Singh over the way he was spoken to by the RAW chief. According to Afghan sources, Chaturvedi treated Karzai like a servant rather than a head of state and spoke to him while chewing and spitting out tobacco.

Politicians in Nepal are also extremely upset with Chaturvedi, who made a number of visits to the country last December which were all caustically detailed by the Nepalese press. To humiliate Chaturvedi, the media even published the names of all the RAW officers stationed at the Kathmandu embassy.

Nepalese sources claimed that Chaturvedi forced the interim government of Girija Prasad Koirala to award a contract to an Indian firm for a hydropower project. It has also been alleged that Chaturvedi may have financially benefited personally from the deal. Questions have been raised in India as to why the head of an Indian intelligence agency was promoting a commercial company in Nepal.

Chaturvedi has also alienated himself from people within his own organization by ostracizing senior personnel and creating a culture of fear. Such is the level of animosity toward Chaturvedi that it is rumored he will have to leave India once he retires and would be safer seeking asylum in Pakistan. It is for this reason that Chaturvedi has been trying to position his protégé Sanjiv Tripathi to take over his post in an attempt to preempt any retribution.

The Indian intelligence community has dubbed Chaturvedi and Tripathi "Dumb and Dumber" a reference to the Jim Carey film.

Tripathi, like Chaturvedi, has risen in the ranks based, not on his ability, but on the number of years he has been with RAW. Tripathi is an administrator and has no expertise or experience as an intelligence officer. His father-in-law, G.S. Bajpai, was also a head of RAW.

Tripathi is also tainted by "business activities" in Mauritius, and Trinidad and Tobago. These activities are coming under scrutiny in an internal probe led by G.B.S. Sidhu, a former special secretary within RAW. Sidhu has been tasked to identify corruption within the organization, and his probe is also looking into allegations of sexual harassment, made by a senior member of the organization about a female employee who was allegedly intimidated and coerced into silence.

News of the scandal has reached the office of M K Narayanan, India's National Security Advisor, and persistent rumors from New Delhi's bureaucratic community have suggested that the scandal involves Chaturvedi.

Narayanan is the person Chaturvedi reports directly to, and he has now finally lost all patience with the RAW chief. Narayanan tried to give Chaturvedi the benefit of the doubt for more than a year, but has now realized that he has become an enormous liability and that through him the entire edifice of the organization is crumbling.

"The rumor mill in New Delhi is now spinning out of control that Chaturvedi may become the first head of RAW to be sacked for gross incompetence and negligence before his term expires at the end of 2008," a source told the Middle East Times.

To make matters worse, Chaturvedi and Tripathi have started a dirty tricks campaign against Narayanan to try to weaken his credibility in the hope that he will be sacked instead.

Chaturvedi has also created other fronts of confrontation. He has begun to criticize, challenge and try to undermine the highly influential Pulok Chatterji, secretary to the Prime Minister's Office. By this, he is trying to preempt his own sacking by attempting to sideline Chatterji, who carries enormous influence in New Delhi corridors of power and could force through the RAW chief's dismissal from office.

Mukesh Ambani, one of India's most influential businessmen, has also come under Chaturvedi's ire. Ambani, who is counted among the world's richest men, is often consulted by politicians from across the political divide.

In his criticism of Ambani, Chaturvedi has let it be known that he disapproves of political parties engaging with the commercial industry. Despite his own links with commercial interests in Nepal, Chaturvedi is said to hold strong ideological socialist beliefs hailing from the Cold War era. He is known to dislike the expansion of the economy started by the previous BJP-led government and continued by the Congress-led coalition.

The irony of all this is heightened, however, by the fact that another prominent businessman, Kumarmangalam Birla, was invited to deliver a lecture at the offices of RAW in memory of its founder R.N. Kao.

Security analysts in India believe that Chaturvedi and Tripathi have systematically dismantled, exposed, or damaged the intelligence gathering infrastructure of RAW to such an extent that it will take many years to restore the harm they have done.

Sonia Gandhi's Congress Party and the largest opposition party, the BJP, have both indicated that they would have no objection to Chaturvedi being replaced at the earliest possible opportunity.

Although the problems in neighboring Pakistan appear worse than India's – with politicians being assassinated, frequent suicide bombings, and al-Qaida and the Taliban running loose, the situation in India, with Chaturvedi, is allowing the same dangerous elements to enter the country, the sources said.

Unofficial briefings, originating from Manmohan Singh's office, suggest that the prime minister and his national security adviser, M K Narayanan are exasperated with the incompetent shenanigans of both Chaturvedi and Tripathi. They are concerned with the long-term harm the two are doing, not only to India's secretive intelligence agency, but also to the national security of this growing global power and ally in the war on terror.

The intelligence community in Washington has been aware for some months of the problems that Chaturvedi has created. Their own concerns have been shared with other Western intelligence agencies. But information sharing with RAW has come to a virtual standstill, as the feeling is there is too much to risk in talking to the head of India's intelligence.


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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2008 02:42 
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aditp wrote:
phewww......
http://www.metimes.com/Politics/2008/02/06/indias_intel_chief_lacking_intelligence/9650/print/

The controversial head of India's external intelligence agency, Ashok Chaturvedi, has come under the spotlight .....


Aditp, this news has been discussed threadbare earlier on this forum. I suggest you delete the article's contents.

----
Proposed National Intelligence Agency:

Details on NIA - Rediff

Quote:
The proposed National Investigating Agency will invoke harsher provisions than POTA (Prevention of Terrorism [Images] Act) of the National Democratic Alliance government. It was knocked out by the United Progressive Alliance Government, dubbing it draconian.

The proposed law seeks to put onus of proving not guilty on the accused and makes polygraphy, narco-analysis and forensic tests as also confession before officers having magisterial powers as admissible before the courts. The NIA officers will be given the magisterial powers to justify recording of confession before police as valid evidence against the accused.

The urgency with which the government is moving to establish the agency can be judged from the fact that it has already identified Nehchal Sandhu, a long-time special director of the Intelligence Bureau and an IPS officer of Bihar cadre, to head it. The agency will come into being as soon as Parliament put the stamp on the Bill.

As regards the agency's cadre, the government is exploring transfer of a score of experienced hands from the RAW (Research and Analysis Wing), the external intelligence agency, including those from its own RAS cadre. Sandhu was, in fact, tipped to become the RAW chief to succeed Ashok Chaturvedi retiring next month.

The agency will not limit itself to probe the terror cases but also other organised crimes with inter-state and foreign linkages will be using the provisions of the Defence of India Rules, Unlawful Activities Prevention Act, Explosives Act, and a plethora of other laws meant for protecting the national security. The Bill on the anvil will specify the federal crimes over which the agency will have the jurisdiction, requiring the police to hand over any such cases to it.

Accepting the view of BJP's former law minister Arun Jaitley that Parliament can pass a law constituting the agency without stepping on the toes of the state governments since terrorism was more than a simple law and order issues falling in the state domain under the Constitution, the government will be using Article 246 of the Constitution which waives the necessity of securing the states' concurrence.

Unlike the CBI that requires the state government's consent for taking over any case, the proposed NIA can on its own or on the Centre's directive take over the investigation of a terror case and prosecute culprits with the help of its own special prosecutor in the special courts to be set up alike the special CBI courts.

Home Ministry sources say the proposed agency will be much more powerful than even the Federal Agency of the United States. They said a separate Bill will be moved in Parliament to amend the National Security Act of 1080 to constitute a National Security Authority that will supervise NIA investigations and permit prosecution of the culprits it nabs. The authority will have a senior IPS officer as security commissioner in each state for coordination of NIA with the state police


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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2008 03:10 
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aditp wrote:
kit wrote:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/China_blocked_move_to_ban_Jamaat_thrice/articleshow/3818807.cms

China blocked move to ban Jamaat thrice

China s asymmetric war against India !


Pukiland's asymmetric strategy has come back to haunt it badly and has made it an international pariah (Madeline Albright actually called it an international migraine). It is only a matter of time before the Puki frankenstien monster, the prime tool of *deleted* asymmetric warfare against India comes back to haunt it in Xinjiang's Uighur populace. :evil: :twisted: :((

KAR BURA TO HO BURA - Ancient Indian Wisdom


We are kidding ourselves if you think that Ancient Indian Wisdom will come fruit especially in china. Sure the Uighur's will rise, except the Chinese will brutally out it down, blame it on the Dalai clique and NONE of the Islamic states will say anything as most of them are eating the chinese money. ...


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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2008 08:47 
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Quote:
As regards the agency's cadre, the government is exploring transfer of a score of experienced hands from the RAW (Research and Analysis Wing), the external intelligence agency, including those from its own RAS cadre. Sandhu was, in fact, tipped to become the RAW chief to succeed Ashok Chaturvedi retiring next month.

Where does that leave the already understaffed RAW?

I see a major staffing issue with so many agencies now vying for quality cadre....will the NIA start fresh recruitments(and minor number of deputed officers from IPS,RAW etc) or will it go the major deputation way(like the RAW and IB where IPS make up >50%)?


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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2008 10:35 
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The RAW guya are any way waiting to become uncle's agents. Looks like I will have my wish for a new agency but not like this.


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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2008 13:01 
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Why dont they just dismantle RAW , IB and what nots and just make one for internal and covert counter intelligence and another for extensive external intelligence,All sigint,EW satellites,aircraft,internet surveillance to be under one 'No such Agency'.Just three of these intel agencies .. not more !! Use this opportunity to clean the aegean stables please !!! The military can have their own intel, as they need specific inputs.Some one has to stop following I Gandhi s paranoia !!


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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2008 14:44 
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Who really heads R&AW and the IB?Not their designated heads but the 'No Security Adviser",MKN, who has like a land grabber,grabbed them both under his wing,as well as heading the JIC,etc.!He allegedly made himself the "maharajah" of all intel.This same NSA,controversially appointed the heads of R&AW and the IB,both men about to shortly retire,and both from his native Kerala!Talk about the "gaonwallah" syndrome! Therefore,it is the NSA head who is the man most responsible for the failure of intelligence in the attacks.Like Musharrat at Kargil,he is now finding scapegoats for the debacle that India has suffered and has no real intent to resign his post despite universal outrage at this catastrophic failure.Can one expect anything better from this disgraced individual?

Let me illustrate hard facts.When a soldier or sailor is found "sleeping on his watch" during times of war,he will be courtmartialled and shot.Our NSA was also found sleeping on his watch,despite so many attacks before.Had he been in charge of intel in Stalin's Russia and found similarly "sleeping...sorry,partying on his watch",Stalin would've shot him instantly! Regrettable,in India we have just had a tamasha of his resignation,as he appears to be too important to lose for his political skills,winning votes in the house and elections for his master and mistress.


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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2008 16:12 
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Was reading Ghost Wars by Steve Coll, and was thinking about this whole RAW issue last night. It is actually quite similar to how the CIA was in 1990's, good techint but weak in HUMINT. But really, India should be extremely strong interms of HUMINT, because the targets are usually accross the border and have very similar culture/race/ etc etc to melt in.

Was reading in Steve Coll's book that they wanted India to be able to use some of its muslim population to penetrate the afghan training camps.


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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2008 22:23 
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When Pak presses India to share more evidence , wont that be counter productive if GOI does it ? Say wont that be like showing your cards ? and one more thing, wont that expose ways used in collecting the evidence, that could be well 'taken care of' for the next wave of attacks by the pig farm ?


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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2008 22:30 
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Quote:
When Pak presses India to share more evidence , wont that be counter productive if GOI does it ? Say wont that be like showing your cards ?

Errr...thats the very reason why GoI has refused to even consider the repeated Paki wailings about the "share info" drama...


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PostPosted: 14 Dec 2008 05:01 
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Some interesting ideas applicable to RAW/IB perhaps....

Intelligence Boosters


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PostPosted: 15 Dec 2008 09:20 
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IB to recruit IAF men

New Delhi, PTI:
Faced with an acute shortage of manpower, India's premier domestic snooping agency, the Intelligence Bureau (IB), will for the first time recruit non-commissioned officers (NCOs) from the Indian Air Force to fill the vacancies.


“We have an acute shortage of manpower and to overcome the problem, we are recruiting over 3,000 personnel in the junior ranks. For the first time, we will take them from the Indian Air Force also,” Home Ministry sources said.

Till now, the junior staff in the IB was drawn from the paramilitary and state police forces and other departments under the Home Ministry.

Technical knowhow

The internal intelligence agency is recruiting IAF personnel primarily to utilise their knowledge in technology-driven areas and is planning to employ them to handle its modern intelligence-gathering equipment.

“With the Intelligence Bureau acquiring new technological aids for intelligence gathering, these men, who have considerable experience in handling advanced equipment, will be used to handle our new gadgets,” the sources said.

“With their training and discipline, it will take a shorter time for us to teach them the tricks of our trade than in the case of new recruits,” they added.

The recruited lot from the IAF, sources said, will be deployed at the immigration bureau in the airports and sea-ports across the country.

“We have plans to augment the number of staff at the immigration bureau and these NCOs will be deployed there too,” sources said.

Both serving and retired NCOs from IAF are being eyed by the IB as potential recruits. “We are taking the serving personnel on deputation and recruiting ex-servicemen, who have around 20 years of experience,” they said.

Earlier, only officers were recruited to the Intelligence Bureau, either on deputation or after retirement from their respective services.

Currently, the Intelligence Bureau, had about 7,000 field personnel for intelligence gathering. In order to strengthen its network across the country, the IB has recently started its recruitment drive, sources said.
Central intelligence agencies have been receiving flak from state governments for their failure in anticipating and preventing at least 18 major terror attacks in the country in the last two years that killed over 500 people and left over a thousand injured.

very good moveIMO...will break the police style functioning of the IB( atleast a little bit).


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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2008 04:42 
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PM not in favor of removing IB/RAW Chiefs.

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Apart from political considerations, Narayanan has often been the sole voice in government to strongly articulate the dangers posed by jihadi terrorists to India's economic installations. He had a crucial role to play in ensuring that police forces of no less than five states worked in a cohesive manner to unravel the Indian Mujahideen case.


Narayanan is wearing so many hats:
1)is the de-facto parallel Foreign Minister - 2 years of dealings with Nuclear deal in US/NSG/IAEA
2) PM's special representative for Indo-China border talks and CBMs
3) Special duties for India's views on Lankan affairs- dealing with Colombo and Chennai at same time.
4) PM's troubleshooter for political issues - like the DMK trouble recently, Advani's doubts on Sadhavi probe
and finally
5)Responsible as Special Advisor for Internal Security to the PM - the original task he was picked for.

If he is the only person good enough for 1/2/3/4 why not hand over the responsibility for Internal security to a seperate person ? IMO, there are if not more, a handful of such experts.


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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2008 06:33 
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Looks like India may need to create its own ISI minus the political cell to take on the TSP-PRC combine.


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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2008 19:58 
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K Shankaran Nair who succeeded Rameshwarnath Kao, the founding father of RAW, as its chief has recently written a book “Inside IB and RAW: The Rolling Stones that Gathered Moss” narrating his experiences. Morarji Desai who became prime minister in 1977 was out to wreak havoc not only on the Gandhi family but also on the top civil servants and intelligence officers. The late PM's policies had a serious impact on intelligence collection and operations.

His hatred for the head of the premier intelligence organization can be seen from the excerpts of the conversation which appeared in the book Inside RAW by Asoka Raina.
M. Desai: I believe RAW was involved in the internal affairs of the country during emergency.

Nair: No Sir. That is not correct, all were external operations.

MD: But your activities were highly immoral, highly irregular.

Nair: These are RAW’s external operations, sir….

MD: This does not reduce the immorality – stop operations you are handling at present.

Nair: If we do that, sir, some of them might mean a loss of faith in our promises and in the credibility of the government.

MD: I do not care. Stop all operations and also reduce the RAW strength by 50%.


This resulted many an operations being aborted and operatives compromised. One such was “Tiger” Siddiqui of Bangladesh who felt betrayed. Mr. Nair is reported to have remarked that Morarji Desai was the greatest enemy of India’s national security. Pakistan certainly would have celebrated on that fateful day.

This act of Desai was nothing short of treason for which he ought to have been severely punished.


You know, why sometimes it not wrong to call the politicians as .........


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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2008 21:26 
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There are already 3 main National Level Agencies

RAW - For external intelligence
IB - For Internal Intelligence
CBI - For Crime Investigation.

All these co-ordinated by JIC

Do we need another Intelligence agency for Investigation. What I have read in papers is that the Objective of the National Intelligence Agency is quote "The National Investigation Agency Bill provides for setting up an agency at the Central level with powers to probe terrorism and other crimes having national ramifications across the country."

In the event of NIA what will be the role of these agencies?


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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2008 21:43 
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Quote:
There are already 3 main National Level Agencies

RAW - For external intelligence
IB - For Internal Intelligence
CBI - For Crime Investigation.

All these co-ordinated by JIC

Do we need another Intelligence agency for Investigation. What I have read in papers is that the Objective of the National Intelligence Agency is quote "The National Investigation Agency Bill provides for setting up an agency at the Central level with powers to probe terrorism and other crimes having national ramifications across the country."

In the event of NIA what will be the role of these agencies?


Ajit

NIA will be the executing/implementing arm of the GoI based on intelligence inputs received from IB & RAW . Earlier both these agencies use to pass the intelligence reports about terror threats to state govt. & it wasn't their responsibility to see that action is taken on ground based on these reports . Now , NIA will be able to act on it own based on intelligence reports generated by own intelligence wing & ones provided by IB & RAW and it will not have to wait for consent/permission from the state govt. & GoI for permission to launch either a preemptive operation on Indian soil or an investigation in case of a terror incident . So now IB & RAW has some sort of executing arm at least on terror front .
It will have its own special courts & new law for speedy trials . At least on paper , this is the intent of this new agency (NIA). For co-ordination with states , there will be an appointment of one senior police officer to act as sort of coordinator with state police for better execution again on paper so far .

Biggest difference between CBI & NIA is the level of autonomy in operations , in case of CBI , it has to wait for permission from GoI to launch an investigation whereas NIA will launch the investigation on its own independently without having to wait for permission from state govt. & central one.


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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2008 23:12 
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Thanx Satya for your explanation.

If the idea is to have NIA to act upon the intelligence inputs of RAW and IB as their executing arm. Why not just modify the IB's Mandate/Act to incorporate these additonal powers.

A new agency would mean additional expenditure is all senses, which I guess would be far greater than giving the same powers to IB.


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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2008 23:24 
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IB and RAW are for gathering intelligence. NIA will be more like FBI of US, where it will also be the primary investigating agency for crimes across multiple states.

And NIA is National Investigative agency, and not Intelligence agency.

Govt. tables two anti-terror Bills in Lok Sabha

Quote:
New Delhi (PTI): The government on Tuesday introduced two Bills providing for setting up of a National Investigating Agency (NIA) to probe terror cases across the country and to provide for deterrent provisions like detention without bail for up to 180 days and enhanced penalty of life imprisonment for those involved in terror acts.

The measures, coming against the backdrop of the Mumbai terror attacks and demand for tough anti-terror laws, also broadens the definition of terror acts to cover violence related to militancy, insurgency and Left-wing extremism. The National Investigating Agency Bill, 2008 and the Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Amendment Bill, 2008 were tabled by Home Minister P Chidambaram in the Lok Sabha, a day after the Cabinet cleared the measures.

The NIA Bill that will have concurrent jurisdiction empowers the central government to decide what constitutes terror and investigate such attacks in any part of the country covering offences including challenge to country's sovereignty and integrity, bomb blasts, hijacking of aircraft and ships and attacks on nuclear installations.

The measures also provides for constitution of special courts to try offences under the NIA Bill and to provide for summary trial. The Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Amendment Bill defines what constitutes terror acts intended to threaten the unity and sovereignty and to cause terror in people by using bombs, dynamites or other explosive substances or lethal weapons or poisonous gases or chemicals including biological, radio-active and nuclear.

...


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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2008 23:55 
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What are the problems with giving the same power to CBI ? NIA mandate seems to be similar to CBI, except it doesnt need to take permission from the state government. The parliament could have passed a law to make CBI more autonomous and with the power to conduct state level investigations. In the past CBI has taken part in CI activities arresting many based on information provided by MI and IB. NIA seems likes a typical government solution to create more agencies hence throwing more money and resources in the mix, making some IPS master of his own fiefdom. NIA is not like FBI, since FBI also has a mandate for criminal cases.

Another reason could be that if CBI were given the power to conduct investigations without seeking permission from state govt. (unlike now ) it could have also used the mandate to investigate corruption and criminal cases against various IAS and Ministers at the state level. This would have had the states erupt in protest. Hence an NIA has been created with mandate only to investigate terrorism related cases. Criminal cases will as usual will be handled by the purposely handicapped CBI.

satya wrote:
Biggest difference between CBI & NIA is the level of autonomy in operations , in case of CBI , it has to wait for permission from GoI to launch an investigation whereas NIA will launch the investigation on its own independently without having to wait for permission from state govt. & central one.


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PostPosted: 17 Dec 2008 00:34 
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the rot within the CBI is enough of an indicator against why it should not have any more powers , it has been abused repeatedly by political establishments for petty gains against each other.

CBI is the same one which proved utterly incompetent and could not solve the case of a double murder to nail the two suspects , who could trust them with National security.

http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=14754868

I'm happy that GoI has started with a clean slate and would rather have officers like Karkare (god bless his soul) under one umbrella agency.


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PostPosted: 17 Dec 2008 12:13 
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RAW revamp on cards

Quote:
RAW revamp on cards

Rakesh K Singh | New Delhi

Now that the Director of Intelligence Bureau PC Haldar relinquishes charge on December 31, the Government has begun to move to spruce up the functioning of the external intelligence agency, Research and Analysis Wing (RAW), believed in the official circles responsible for having failed to track the Pakistani vessel that brought the terrorists into Indian waters for attacking Mumbai last week.

Following the appointment of Special Director of IB Rajiv Mathur as OSD in the agency on December 8, Haldar has been sideline and was not even informed about a high level meeting to review security on Thursday.

Mathur will officially take charge as Director of the Intelligence Bureau upon superannuation of Haldar on December 31. Mathur attended the weekly security review meeting on Thursday, Government sources said and added that current Intelligence Bureau Director has virtually been relieved of his role in the agency.

The Government is now considering measures to fix up accountability on the top echelons of the external intelligence agency for failing to prevent the Mumbai terror attack late last month despite having at its command an array of technical equipment, including a dedicated spy satellite and UAVs (Unmanned Aerial Vehicles) for surveillance over the land and sea border, officials said.

The other concern is the leakage of classified but not so specific inputs to a section of the media by the Research and Analysis Wing for covering up its failure in developing the skeleton leads prior to the Mumbai attack, the officials said.

However, the delay in any action against the Research and Analysis Wing boss has led to speculation about the play of patrimonial factors in shielding him so far as he is connected to a former Cabinet Secretary who in turn is reportedly having close relation with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh.


A senior Union Home Ministry official said, "If the accountability of the Research and Analysis Wing officials is not fixed then the proposed National Investigation Agency would prove to be futile as the Government will be saddled with yet another non-functional institution."

Reports about coterie culture of top Research and Analysis Wing officials holding sway over the agency for vested interests have also emerged as a major concern for the Government that has been on the dock for poor handling of the internal security in the face of ever increasing terror strikes in the country for the last few years.

Research and Analysis Wing Secretary Ashok Chaturvedi is reportedly using his bungalow in Noida as safe houses of the agency for twin objectives of seeking rent and maintenance from the Government funds.

Chaturvedi has reportedly also allowed his confidantes to enroll their wards on the rolls of the agency in utter disregard of professionalism and national security interests.
:roll:


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PostPosted: 17 Dec 2008 13:41 
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Nihat wrote:
the rot within the CBI is enough of an indicator against why it should not have any more powers , it has been abused repeatedly by political establishments for petty gains against each other.

CBI is the same one which proved utterly incompetent and could not solve the case of a double murder to nail the two suspects , who could trust them with National security.

http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=14754868

I'm happy that GoI has started with a clean slate and would rather have officers like Karkare (god bless his soul) under one umbrella agency.



The NIA will be officered by the same IPS cadre of officers who officer the CBI. What is to prevent them from officering it in precisely the same way as they run the CBI? What is to prevent the NIA from filing fake terror cases against opponents of political parties in power? If we cant make the CBI work, how will we make the NIA work? It will just become another comfortable central deputation for senior officers.


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PostPosted: 17 Dec 2008 23:41 
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That means that NIA will be overlapping into every Intelligence and Investigation agencies territory. Then why don't they bring it in par with FBI. Merge IB, CBI, Narcotics and Forensics etc into one as NIA.


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PostPosted: 18 Dec 2008 08:28 
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being a comm engineer myself (not a bright one at that :( ) I was wondering what sort of capabilities RAW/IB have to gather intel from satellite phones of suspected terrorists, does anybody have an idea??

thanks,
Pradeep


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PostPosted: 18 Dec 2008 19:34 
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pgbhat wrote:
being a comm engineer myself (not a bright one at that :( ) I was wondering what sort of capabilities RAW/IB have to gather intel from satellite phones of suspected terrorists, does anybody have an idea??

thanks,
Pradeep

We seem to have got some equipment from Unkil( USA) to help tap satellite phones. In house, there is 0% capability, IIRC.

Even the access to sat phone decryption seems to be limited since we depend on Unkil to nudge the sat-phone provider to unlock the phone and help read all the messages sent over the particular handset and we do not seem to( atleast from open source) the skillset.


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PostPosted: 19 Dec 2008 11:37 
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Apparently telecom are allowed to operate only if they give access to tap any numbers that the agencies want. This is the norm everywhere.


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