Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

amit · Post by **amit** » 31 Dec 2008 12:44

pgbhat wrote:whisky-tango-foxtrot ......................Now what is TSP upto?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123068308893944123.html

I wonder if this means the Pakis are positioning themselves to hand over an Al Quada No3 equivalent from LeT to the US to satisfy Uncle so that things can be hunky dory again?

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 31 Dec 2008 13:20

Vikram_S wrote:@pgbhat

rangudu has posted a report in another thread which says there is pressure by US on Pak to hand over lakhvi to india.

this appears to be set up so that pak can say own agency has found evidence so xyz will be tried in pakistan.

note in above article:

Mr. Shah was picked up along with fellow Lashkar commander Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi during the military camp raids in Kashmir.
this is not first time.

in 1980's/1990's dont remember exactly which years, ties between Rajiv and Zia were warmed up, so Zia in pretending "good diplomacy" tried some Sikh (?) hijackers in pakistan who were otherwise in Pak as guests

it was all big joke from POV of security establishment

point is none of these guys will come to india (list of 20), each guy will be gold mine for RAW,CIA and that is not in Pak interest

it is actually sad that ISI guy Hamid Gul was not target by UNSC as India/US wanted --> this man is responsible for deaths of many thousand indians in Punjab and J&K (father of ISI insurgency in Punjab)

somehow indian media never touches on this (short memory)

is how much of this BS can unkil take?? ..................... I know kaan-gress will

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 31 Dec 2008 15:39

Rangudu wrote: . . . . .

There, however, appears to be a serious difference of opinion between Islamabad and the Pakistan Embassy in Washington over the issue.

While Islamabad was reluctant to accept the evidence as authentic, the embassy insisted that it’s authentic and that the Pakistani authorities now needed to take steps to satisfy the international community.

Link

sum · Post by **sum** » 31 Dec 2008 15:45

Delhi_lawyer_offers_to_defend_Kasab
Notice the pride he takes in getting terrorists acquitted...

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 31 Dec 2008 17:00

sum wrote:Delhi_lawyer_offers_to_defend_Kasab
Notice the pride he takes in getting terrorists acquitted...

Hasn't CJI expressed his desire to arrange a lawyer for Kasab, alas if he had time....

HCV · Post by **HCV** » 31 Dec 2008 17:53

Have all the weapons of the Mumbai terrorists been identified now? In the beginning, there was considerable confusion . . .

All seem to have had an AK-47 type rifle with a number of magazines, a pistol, and hand grenades.

1. At least one of the rifles has been identified to be of original Russian Izhmash manufacture (http://www.indianexpress.com/news/why-w ... es/393546/). What exact model was it? AK-47, AKS-47, AKM, AKMS?

2. At least another one of the rifles (the one commonly shown in the photos of the attack on the station) is presumably NOT of Russian manufacture. It has the peculiar folding stock developed in East Germany, which is mainly used on East German AKMS rifles ("MPiKMS-72").

3. What were the other rifles?

4. How many ammunition did the terrorists have? Articles speak of anywhere between 200 and 400 rounds (sometimes *in addition* to loaded magazines); the statement of the captured terrorist mentions 200 rounds and TWO (!) magazines; others speak of 6-10 magazines. The published photos show that the terrorists used at least two 30-round magazines taped together with white tape. It seems unlikely that they would take loose cartridges rather than ready loaded magazines.

5. At least one of the pistols was identified as a "Nedi Frontier Arms" weapon, "Diamond" model, calibre ".30". (http://www.indianexpress.com/news/why-w ... es/393546/) Presumably this is a Peshawar backyard copy of the Russian TT-33 in 7.62x25mm. How many magazines for this were carried?

6. What about the other pistols?

7. Reports seems all to agree that each terrorist had eight hand grenades; at least some of these have been identified as the POF HG84PA1, a design made in Pakistan under license from ARGES, Austria (http://www.indianexpress.com/news/why-w ... es/393546/). Note that the commonly reported "HG64" does not exist. It must be a typo for HG84; POF make this as HG84PA1.

Can anyone shed more light on this? Thanks!

Cheers

HANS

Sree · Post by **Sree** » 31 Dec 2008 18:08

indradhanush wrote:
sum wrote:Delhi_lawyer_offers_to_defend_Kasab
Notice the pride he takes in getting terrorists acquitted...
Hasn't CJI expressed his desire to arrange a lawyer for Kasab, alas if he had time....

I want to see terrorists convicted as much as you do.

But if the terrorists aren't given the benefits of "due process", there are people who will scream that the conviction is invalid.

In the end it is in our interests, even those of the jingoes, to ensure that he receives (and is seen to receive) a fair trial, and legal representation, before he is convicted and put well away.

Karkala Joishy · Post by **Karkala Joishy** » 31 Dec 2008 21:03

Agree with Sree. I think the lawyer representing the terrorist (M. Shanwar Khan) should be applauded for being bold to take on such a case. India is and should be known as a land where the law is respected and this would add to the notion.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 31 Dec 2008 21:07

sum wrote:Delhi_lawyer_offers_to_defend_Kasab
Notice the pride he takes in getting terrorists acquitted...

Has nobody noticed that this has come after Indian lawyers stupidly refused to represent him and the Chief Justice pointed out that not representing him could result in not being able to convict him at a later stage.

Coffee time birathers. Justice works in India. Lets not do madrasa math.

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 31 Dec 2008 21:35

Vikram_S is right regarding the "set up"

The "sane" elements within TSP want to avoid the coming pressure by making it appear that they themselves solved the case and therefore limit the exposure. By shaheedzing this Zarrar Shah character and maybe Lakhvi, they hope to preserve Hafiz-e-Pig and the ISI leaders who are the next level up in the planning hierarchy, with Kayani being the chief planner of course.

The "tactically brilliant" elements in TSPA though want to deny, deny and deny and launch another strike or create a border incident so that this is forgotten. They have been partially successful in the first "Jang-e-Diversion" attempt and they may yet be successful again.

Dubya just spoke to Zardari, so we'll wait for US side to report on what he said.

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 31 Dec 2008 22:29

AP is also now reporting this on its own (i.e., without quoting the earlier WSJ story):

Official: Pakistani confesses to Mumbai attacks

By KATHY GANNON – 34 minutes ago
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (AP) — A militant arrested in Pakistan has confessed involvement in the Mumbai terror attacks and is giving investigators details of the plot, a senior Pakistani government official said Wednesday.

"(Shah) has made some statement that he was involved," said the government official, without providing specific details. "I can tell you that he is singing." The official spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the topic.

Shah's confession was first reported in the Wall Street Journal.

A senior intelligence officer said Shah and another suspect, Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi, were cooperating with investigators, but cautioned authorities had not reached a definite conclusion as to their involvement yet.

He too asked for anonymity. Indian officials were not immediately available for comment.

The official also told The Associated Press that India has shared some evidence of its suspicions but he said it was "very very little." Pakistan's president and other top officials have said India has yet to provide any evidence.

The intelligence officer also said the country had received "information" on the attacks from other, unspecified, nations.

"They (India) gave us a list of numbers and phone calls, most of them useless," the official said.

sum · Post by **sum** » 31 Dec 2008 22:42

Sir(s), i agree but the CJI was saying that trial was needed to ensure conviction of the ^#$%.
This lawyer doesnt even accept he is a terrorist and is actually hoping for acquittal by saying that the court should decide if he is a terrorist/bad guy... There is a huge difference in the two views.

Sasi · Post by **Sasi** » 31 Dec 2008 22:43

We should give Kasab a fair trial before we hang him.

shiv wrote:
sum wrote:Delhi_lawyer_offers_to_defend_Kasab
Notice the pride he takes in getting terrorists acquitted...
Has nobody noticed that this has come after Indian lawyers stupidly refused to represent him and the Chief Justice pointed out that not representing him could result in not being able to convict him at a later stage.

Coffee time birathers. Justice works in India. Lets not do madrasa math.

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 31 Dec 2008 23:14

Sasi wrote:We should give Kasab a fair trial before we hang him.

shiv wrote: Has nobody noticed that this has come after Indian lawyers stupidly refused to represent him and the Chief Justice pointed out that not representing him could result in not being able to convict him at a later stage.

Coffee time birathers. Justice works in India. Lets not do madrasa math.

How rude? How dare you suggest he be hanged if he is found guilty?

What about his old mother, father and heart broken sisters, brothers?

What about all the atrocities of Hindus in the second century BC? How soon you forget?

He is just a mis-guided youth stricken by poverty and tried to take law into his hands for trillion years of injustices committed by evil yindoos and jews?

What is his fault anyway? He killed few rich people in Taj? So what? After all, majority of them are yindoos and Jews..

If none of those arguments changed your mind, do you believe in Science fiction? Then, let me try this:

It is actually evil yindoo who came from future with a face transplant to look like Paki muslim, committed all the crimes, brought poor Kasab from his pure land, dropped him near Mumbai hospital and went back to the future.

ARoy and Burkha Dutt can vouch for this if you want...

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 31 Dec 2008 23:19

what tosh vijayk !
that man's name is "amar singh". witness the HZ saffron band on his hand.

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 01 Jan 2009 00:48

TSPA/ISI's disinformation efforts are so funny. Today they released a ISI-lifafa report that the FBI went to Faridkot village and said Kasab is not from there.

The reality is that Unkil is furious at the obvious cover up attempt there and found a guy in his 40s there whereas US had already downloaded the NADRA database as part of the Musharraf GUBO deals and has info on the people living in that house being 70 plus years old.

Trust the ISI to put a 40 year old guy there who does not even speak the local language.

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 01 Jan 2009 01:10

Naval forces resort to zero-tolerance after attack alert (Sandeep Unnithan in IT)

Marine commandos have been deployed to protect the navy's only aircraft carrier INS Viraat which is undergoing an 18-month refit at the Cochin Shipyard Ltd. Intelligence reports indicated that LeT leaders were studying ways of attacking the Viraat while at refit in Kochi, possibly using commandeered chartered helicopters as missiles.

A release from the Kochi-based southern naval command informed that sentries guarding naval assets have been issued orders to ensure a 'zero tolerance security protocol'. This means that they can fire upon intruders without warning.

Reason why the public has been asked to stay away from naval warships: 'The general public is therefore advised to exercise utmost caution whilst transiting in the vicinity of naval assets. Pleasure boats and other crafts cruising along Ernakulam and Mattancherry channels are also advised not to close naval vessels or wharfs to less than 500 metres. This communiqué is being issued in the interest of public safety,' the release said.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 01 Jan 2009 01:21

@ HCV

I am sure your ID hasn't come from Hepatitis C virus

We were reading one terrorist was using some thing called MP6 machine gun what is that, what inference can be drawn from all these weapons, if they had only 8 grenades how they kept raining grenades inside Taj.
@ everyone: any report of investigation in news papers about twin taxi blast.

Sorry to go away from topic but some one forwarded me this:

WASHINGTON — Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice was showered with more than a quarter of a million dollars in jewelry from Arab leaders last year, making her one of the top recipients among U.S. officials of gifts from foreign heads of state and government and their aides in 2007

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nati ... 1837.story

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 01 Jan 2009 01:28

Rahul M wrote:what tosh vijayk !
that man's name is "amar singh". witness the HZ saffron band on his hand.

Will Kasab be able to make rightful , legal proposal to Miss Dutt and Roy to take them as his 4th and 5th wife as per his Killgious right?

Vikram_S · Post by **Vikram_S** » 01 Jan 2009 01:57

^^ Prem

if indian police suggest that --> kasav will tell everything he knows and also more in fear

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 01 Jan 2009 02:23

sum wrote:Sir(s), i agree but the CJI was saying that trial was needed to ensure conviction of the ^#$%.
This lawyer doesnt even accept he is a terrorist and is actually hoping for acquittal by saying that the court should decide if he is a terrorist/bad guy... There is a huge difference in the two views.

Sumsaar if a lawyer begins with the premise that his client is guilty then what is there to defend. He is making these statements on his clients behalf and in his mind knows the true nature of his client. His best outcome would be to avoid the death penalty for his client. Other than that there is not much to defend in this case. Even a death penalty outcome means Kasab enjoys Indian hospitality for the next 10 years as that is how long due process will take to wind up in India,

Sasi · Post by **Sasi** » 01 Jan 2009 04:30

I hear that the modalities of conjugal visit with Kasab are being worked out by Arundhati, Barkha, Teesta, and Shabana.

Prem wrote:
Rahul M wrote:what tosh vijayk !
that man's name is "amar singh". witness the HZ saffron band on his hand.
Will Kasab be able to make rightful , legal proposal to Miss Dutt and Roy to take them as his 4th and 5th wife as per his Killgious right?

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 01 Jan 2009 05:37

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7806098.stm

Warm New Year's Greetings - from The Decider!!

Bush urges rivals to ease tension

The attack in Mumbai left more than 170 people dead
US President George W Bush says he has called the leaders of Pakistan and India and all agree increased tension in the wake of Mumbai must be avoided.
Mr Bush called on both countries to co-operate in the investigation into the deadly attacks.
Earlier India's Home Minister P Chidambaram said Pakistan was "in denial" over the perpetrators.
Pakistan has said India has failed to share evidence into the attacks, that left more than 170 people dead.
Travel warning
White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe said Mr Bush had "called Prime Minister [Manmohan] Singh of India and separately President [Asif Ali] Zardari of Pakistan.
"President Bush urged both... to co-operate with each other in the Mumbai attack investigation as well as on counter-terrorism in general."

Mr Chidambaram said anti-terror bills had been signed into law
Mr Johndroe said all three leaders "agreed that no-one wanted to take any steps that unnecessarily raise tensions".
The situation between the two South Asian nations remains tense.
There have been some reports of Pakistani troop redeployments to the Indian border region.
But Pakistan's president, prime minister and army chief have all this week urged an easing of tension.
India has denied taking any steps that would increase it. Delhi has urged its citizens not to travel to Pakistan in the current climate and has said the peace process with Pakistan is "paused".
Delhi blames Pakistan-based militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba for the attacks. The group and the Pakistani government deny any involvement.
'State of denial'
Earlier Mr Chidambaram said there was enough evidence on who carried out the Mumbai attacks and that Pakistan was "in denial".
Mr Chidambaram confirmed Indian President Pratibha Patil had signed into law an anti-terrorism bill that will boost police powers and another that creates an FBI-style national investigation agency.

India says the statement by the surviving gunman is clear proof
Mr Chidambaram accused Pakistan of refusing to acknowledge the evidence of the Mumbai attacks.
"If anyone is in a state of denial, anything that we give will be denied," he said.
Mr Chidambaram cited the statement by surviving gunman Mohammed Ajmal Amir Qasab, which India has handed to Islamabad, and a reported confirmation of his identity by his father in Pakistan.
"If that is not evidence then what is?" Mr Chidambaram asked.
Pakistan has said it will be willing to help in an investigation but has not received evidence from Delhi.
It has said the gunman's statement, in which he asked for Pakistan consular help, was obtained under duress and would not stand up in court.
Separately, a report in the Wall Street Journal quotes an unidentified Pakistani security official as saying that a key Lashkar-e-Taiba leader, Zarar Shah, who Pakistan detained after the attacks, has confessed to involvement.
The official said there were intercepts of phone conversations between Zarar Shah and the attackers.
However the official's comments have not been corroborated and Pakistan has made no official statement.

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 01 Jan 2009 07:30

What more evidence does Pak need? Chidambaram

US tells Pak to handover Lakhvi

Mayura · Post by **Mayura** » 01 Jan 2009 08:51

vsudhir wrote:What more evidence does Pak need? Chidambaram

US tells Pak to handover Lakhvi

So will they now hand over that pig to india?

I doubt, they may try to push this on for sometime and then if at all some pressure from India and unkil they may pick up some old fella and tell he was involved in the attacks.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 01 Jan 2009 08:57

vsudhir wrote: US tells Pak to handover Lakhvi

Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani has confirmed that Lakhvi was among the militants detained but his current whereabouts are not known.

Happy NEW Year.

veejey · Post by **veejey** » 01 Jan 2009 16:41

nsa_tanay wrote:
joshvajohn wrote:Pakistan Army's recent behaviour shows that they were indirectly involved in the Mumbai attacks. They really wanted to take away the focus of confronting US in the north and pull India into the conflict and so Pakistanis will not be scared of US.
In a way Pakistani Army wants to shift the confrontation with US to a war mongering idea with India. This would settle many of their local problems. Pakistan Army also wants to show that they are still in power regardless of the new president and pm. Pakistan's statement and other kinds of news make them exactly look like Saddam Hussein before his fall.

It is time for India to plan and strategically identify those places where the terrorists are exactly located and are attacked immediately when there is another attack in India. Israelis would help in terms of entering and eliminating terrorists in other countries without a war. India needs a mechanism for such intrusions and attacks.

No war but helping Pakistanis to fight terrorist in their own soil when they are not able or nor willing to fight their own!!!! Be friendly with democratic govt but fight the terror wherever they are!!!! Kashmir dialogue should continue with anyone who is willing to talk and address the issues but terrorism in any form has to be put off!!!

@joshvajohn, Very well said.
I also believe that we can not eliminate individual extremists using Tank, Prithvi Missile, Su-30 (though that will create a deterrence).I believe the masterminds and their foot soldiers have already abandoned those camps and living in crowded city areas. A full scale war with TSP, will only destroy the terrorist infrastructure, but not those individuals involved. It will also bring the Pakisthani Army(PA) into front. Defeating the PA in military conflict, is neither desirable nor possible.

So what we need to do is to assassinate those individuals responsible, by either covert action or punitive precise strike for which we will not take responsibility. And talk of Peace with Pakistan. India wants peace with Pakistan.

I completely agree with you. War is not a practical option. Any war hysteria will shift the focus from real question of terrorism and give an opportunity to Pakistanis to get united (which otherwise looks in shambles). Also it will not give any tangible benefits.

Instead we must act aggressively on diplomatic front. This is for the first time that Western countries are serious about their efforts on putting pressure on Pakistan. We must take maximum benefit of this situation and pressurize pakistan to act against LeT and others on their soil. Dismantling of Terrorist Infrastructure will be in the long term interest of our country (And also benefit them).

Having said that we must not forget 26/11. We must pursue perpetrators of 26/11 relentlessly and eliminate them by covert actions. We must learn from Operation Wrath of God initiated by Israel to avenge massacre of Israel athletes @ Munich Olympics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wrath_of_God

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 01 Jan 2009 19:27

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/01/world ... ?ref=world

Pakistani Militants Admit Role in Siege, Official Says

By RICHARD A. OPPEL JR. and SALMAN MASOOD
Published: December 31, 2008

Saurabh Das/Associated Press
During the terrorist attacks on Mumbai, India, in November, a resident took cover as Indian commandos inside an apartment fired at the militants who had seized the nearby Nariman House.
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — Pakistani authorities have obtained confessions from members of the Pakistani militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba that they were involved in the terrorist attacks in Mumbai in November that killed more than 160 people, a Pakistani official said.

The confessions are sure to put pressure on Pakistan’s leaders; senior Pakistani officials have repeatedly complained in recent weeks that India had not provided them evidence of Pakistani complicity.

American and British officials — and Indian investigators — have said for weeks that their intelligence clearly points to the involvement of Lashkar in the Mumbai attacks. That evidence has been deeply uncomfortable for Pakistan, whose premier spy agency, the Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence, helped create, finance and train Lashkar in the 1980s to fight a proxy war against Indian forces in the Indian-controlled portion of Kashmir.

But now, after weeks of stonewalling, it also seems clear that Pakistan may use its investigation to make the case that the Mumbai attackers were not part of a conspiracy carried out with the spy agency, known as the ISI, but that the militants were operating on their own and outside the control of government agents.

The most talkative of the senior Lashkar leaders being interrogated is said to be Zarrar Shah, the Pakistani official said. American intelligence officials say they believe that Mr. Shah, the group’s communications chief, has served as a conduit between Lashkar and the ISI. His close ties to the agency and his admission of involvement in the attacks are sure to be unsettling for the government and its spy agency.

An operational leader of Lashkar, Zaki ur-Rehman Lakhvi, is also said to be cooperating with investigators. News of Mr. Shah’s confession was reported by The Wall Street Journal.

“These guys showed no remorse,” said the Pakistani official. “They were bragging. They didn’t need to be pushed, tortured or waterboarded” into making their statements.

The confessions made no mention of any involvement by the Pakistani government, said the official, who added, "They talk about people acting on their own.”

Though Pakistani authorities announced that the men had been detained in the first week of December, the official declined to say how long it took for them to confess their role in the Mumbai siege. The official also declined to specify how many confessions had been obtained, and said, “It’s not just one confession.”

The details of which security officials were carrying out the interrogations, where the suspects were being detained and whether they faced any charges all remained murky, and other Pakistani officials declined to discuss the matter or to confirm the Pakistani official’s account.

A government spokesman deflected direct questions about Pakistani complicity in the attacks and about the confessions by Lashkar members. “The idea that a person has spilled the beans while India has not even shared evidence with us seems far-fetched,” said Farhatullah Babar, a spokesman for President Asif Ali Zardari of Pakistan.

But Indian officials and other skeptics are sure to question how seriously interrogations by Pakistani security officials could be expected to examine any possible role by the ISI in the attacks.

American intelligence officials say they believe that links remain between Lashkar and the ISI, and that the spy agency has helped support the militant group for the past several years by sharing intelligence and providing protection.

But American officials say they also believe that the spy agency has become more careful to mask its ties with militants since this summer, when American officials accused the spy agency of involvement in the bombing of the Indian Embassy in Afghanistan.

One Lashkar fighter who left the group several years ago said in an interview that the agency was directly involved in planning operations in the disputed Kashmir region. The agency’s officers were “at the table” as missions were being sketched out, the former Lashkar fighter said.

However, an active member of Lashkar said in an interview that relations with Pakistani security forces had grown cold. “We always had to hide from the Indian military, but now we have to hide from the Pakistani military as well,” he said.

The ISI has always been a powerful and semiautonomous agency, and its top officers have maintained strong links to Islamist militants. There is some hope that the appointment three months ago of a new spy chief, Lt. Gen. Ahmed Shuja Pasha, who previously oversaw military operations against militants in Pakistan’s lawless western districts, signaled a move away from sympathies with the Islamist fighters who control much of the region bordering Afghanistan.

Mr. Zardari told President Bush during a telephone call on Wednesday that his government would “not allow its territory to be used by nonstate actors for launching attacks on other countries” and that “anybody found involved in such attacks from the soil of Pakistan will be dealt with sternly,” according to Pakistan’s state news agency.

Despite the official assurances, some Pakistani officials appeared open to the idea that Pakistani militants carried out the operation. Mahmud Ali Durrani, the national security adviser, said in an interview broadcast on Tuesday that it “could be” that some or all of the Mumbai attackers were Pakistanis.

One reason that Indian government officials have refused to provide substantive evidence so far, the Pakistani official said, is because they “are scared their intelligence methods will be discovered” by their Pakistani rivals.

Indian officials have shared evidence with the United States and certain other governments, but they have not permitted that information to be shared with Pakistan, said one Western official.

Mark Mazzetti contributed reporting from Washington.

HarishV · Post by **HarishV** » 01 Jan 2009 22:18

Meanwhile in the media, one of the Porki ministers just said that the letter drafted by Kasav was "amatuerish" [probably without the rich Urdu flavor of Mohd Iqbal - what do you expect he is a "Chauti Fail"] and that it was "yet another Indian cover-up ploy" at which "they failed miserably".
Such utterly brash comments when Unkil, and **Indians** are knocking at the door.. What do these Porkis smoke? Heck even one of the Porkis finally admitted that "the attackers could be Pakistani". The first step, they say, to the solution of every problem is the admission that you potentially have a problem. Which is why we need to take out the folks in self-denial

James B · Post by **James B** » 02 Jan 2009 01:18

LeTs instruction to the piglets

Aag lagao: LeT to Mumbai killers

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 02 Jan 2009 01:21

12 Pak nationals wanted in 26/11 attacks: Mumbai Police

FBI team visits Kasab's village

NIA comes into being

archan · Post by **archan** » 02 Jan 2009 03:04

FBI set to present proof to Islamabad

NEW DELHI: Clinching and incontrovertible proof that the Mumbai terror attack was planned on and launched from Pakistani soil by Pakistanis will soon be presented to Islamabad by American sleuths after the FBI records enough evidence.

One one hand there are reports that FBI did not find evidence in the village, on other hand this. What the heck?
And "clinching and incontrovertible"?

Just watch how the paki PR machine of virtual reality "proves" that the proof is not "clinching" enough.

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 02 Jan 2009 03:37

TSP hasn't made a choice on what to do or what BS to cook up. Here's the issue:

FBI will formally name Zaki Lakhvi, Zarrar Shah, Yusuf Muzammil and possibly Hafiz-e-pig in their indictment.

While TSPA/ISI goons are setting the stage to exonerate themselves by leaking reports of "confessions," they have not yet decided if these pigs will be shaheedized or given up to the US.

That is why you have the b-squeezer Gilani denying today that he ever admitted officially that Lakhvi and Zarrar Shah were in TSPA custody.

But the fool should know that he was caught on video admitting to exactly that. See:

http://in.reuters.com/news/video?videoId=95289

http://www.onlinenews.com.pk/details.php?id=137467&a=1

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7774912.stm

These guys cannot lie straight and the only thing that saves them is the lies that they tell to cover up the lies that they have already said.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Jan 2009 08:59

I am in favour of all these gents being handed over to FBI rather than India. reasons being:-

- there is no chance of these people being hanged here, but in US they will certainly get the death penalty or 3000 years in a supermax
- no hassles with psec/teesta/aroy types fighting vigorously in their defence
- no kandahar type attempts to free them while our judicial process works at snails pace
- our police work in preparing cases is not too good compared to fbi and there are
always vested interests willing to undermine the police case here (like loudmouth
or political chamcha 'sources' who leak news to media everyday in ATS)
- denies the kangress any electoral advantage.
- saves some paki H&D (we stood up to india but had no choice but to gubo to
unkil) so they'd be more amenable to hand them over.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 02 Jan 2009 09:45

Singha wrote:I am in favour of all these gents being handed over to FBI rather than India. reasons being:-

- there is no chance of these people being hanged here, but in US they will certainly get the death penalty or 3000 years in a supermax
- no hassles with psec/teesta/aroy types fighting vigorously in their defence
- no kandahar type attempts to free them while our judicial process works at snails pace
- our police work in preparing cases is not too good compared to fbi and there are
always vested interests willing to undermine the police case here (like loudmouth
or political chamcha 'sources' who leak news to media everyday in ATS)
- denies the kangress any electoral advantage.
- saves some paki H&D (we stood up to india but had no choice but to gubo to
unkil) so they'd be more amenable to hand them over.

I mean this kindly, and as a practical matter I even agree with you, but for crimes committed on Indian soil to be tried in the US is really sad. One of the objections against colonialism was precisely this non-sovereignty of the colonized country. But free and independent India is to continue with that colonial practice?

It is better for India to assert itself, even if it goofs up; at least there will be impetus for improvement of India after any mistakes. No country can outsource justice to another country and remain viable.

kobe · Post by **kobe** » 02 Jan 2009 13:31

weekly news and analysis:

- saw MMS on TV giving sonia a bouquet of what looked like paper flowers (new years crap?) everyone was all smiles as if nothing happened in mumbai, the flowers were quickly handed over to another girl and sonia had already forgotten about it, what a stupid, lame, sickening imagery to start the year with

on a happier note:

- israel put a 2000 lbs bomb on a home that contained a hamas terrorist (nizar rayyan), his 4 wives, and his 18 children (the children would have grown into suicide bombers anyway, gonna die later by bomb, then why wait?) - oh BTW 45 neighbors also died, sh;t happens.
(too bad it was a painless death, bomb explodes, bodies vaporise in an instant, the world can not complain for mercy killings)

- my new years resolution is to pray/plan/push for 3rd and final partition of pakistan (into at least 3 new countries), that is the only thing i want, only thing i think about (by the way.. business is booming, so have plenty of time for important things)

other random suggestions for promoting peace in south asia in 2009:
a) india starts a non-stop round the clock missile and bombing runs on pakistan cities (civilian, military, political, i don't care what the targets are)
b) india prints unfathomable about of paki fake currencies and almost bankrupt paki economy gets a final fatal blow
c) india nukes 50 largest pakistani cities (which probably means 3 cities and 47 villages)
d) india hangs qasab by his peanut
e) india introduces 1 wife policy for all its citizens (mistresses allowed only for hindus)
f) air india offers free one way tickets to citizens with multiple wives to live in newly established countries
g) taj hotel's new dish; pork biriyani - free for anyone who has been to hajj (irrespective of their religion)
h) israel citizens should be given 90% discount on tourism to kashmir
i) hindu's should be paid to move to kashmir (and given free homes/jobs/land) (just like chinese han being shoved into tibet), i will personally raise the stature of those hindu's to "kashmiri pandits", and change their surnames to mahalingam
j) indian state of kashmir name should be changed to ORIGINAL sanskrit name, something like kailash, or whatever the original was, as long as it proper sanskrit
k) in india reformed hindus (i.e. meat-eating) (for example CKP in maharashtra and fish eating bengali hindus), such hindus should get free meat onces a week (to pay for it, meat prices should be raised 10x)
l) free mini-skirts for life to anyone named shabana, shabnam, sabina, rehana, sultana, etc etc
m) curfew on anyone with a beard from leaving home on fridays
n) babri masjid should be preserved (after moving it to swat valley)
o) free yoga classes 5 times a day to anyone with a beard

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 02 Jan 2009 13:49

Singha Wrote

I am in favour of all these gents being handed over to FBI rather than India. reasons being:-

- there is no chance of these people being hanged here, but in US they will certainly get the death penalty or 3000 years in a supermax
- no hassles with psec/teesta/aroy types fighting vigorously in their defence
- no kandahar type attempts to free them while our judicial process works at snails pace
- our police work in preparing cases is not too good compared to fbi and there are
always vested interests willing to undermine the police case here (like loudmouth
or political chamcha 'sources' who leak news to media everyday in ATS)
- denies the kangress any electoral advantage.
- saves some paki H&D (we stood up to india but had no choice but to gubo to
unkil) so they'd be more amenable to hand them over.

Singha , have you considered the fact that handing over any of these national assets will be such a blow to H&D and seen as betrayal that all hell will break lose. Its one thing for the Pakjabi/arab to see the Ummah hand over suspects to the superior Uncle. But handing over any of these esteemed personality to the Kaffir's - no one in the army establishment or the civilian government will survive for a day if that happens.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Jan 2009 14:05

arab world/ummah have always been gubo to UK and Unkil as all their offshore assets are
under 'control' of this combine and the swiss who are mere chowkidars of the anglo saxon
treasure.

so the mumbai incident having killed american citizens and ummah having less H&D loss/pain
taking it up the rear from Unkil I felt it was a more economical option to let FBI try them for
murder of US citizens and make them disappear off the map. with consecutive life terms for
each murder and maybe harsh new post 9/11 provisions, their terror career would be over.

Indians could still rub the salt in ofcourse. I dont think the FBI is spending cycles on behalf
of indian citizens, thats not their job its the job of CBI and police here when they are free
of political work and chasing hindu terrorists.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 02 Jan 2009 14:18

Singha,

On one thing we can both agree. Far better chance of handing a few of them to uncle for trial than any ever being handed over to India

negi · Post by **negi** » 02 Jan 2009 14:32

I believe this entire episode has been more boring and frustrating than saas bahu soaps , Now TOI has this report about Bhadwa Unkil asking GOP to try the accused inside GOP instead of extraditing them to India.

I mean both USA and GOP have now realised that they both can avoid war and have the GWOT show running by keeping the Mumble singh and his ilk guessing . People in Mumbai have already forgotten the episode and who knows even forgiven the culprits .

.