Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Raju · Post by **Raju** » 25 Jan 2009 21:42

sum, it is naive on our part to believe that any govt, even this present govt can ignore Mumbai. There will be tough action ofcourse, but at a time of our choosing.

But my fear is that time may not come at all, because terrorist acts will follow other in quick succession, and the gentle dhotis of dilli will be left wondering what hit them. I am sure there are plans being finalized and implemented as we speak, today Pranab da was saying that Mumbai factor contributed to MMS sudden heart problems. But Pak getting through intact to 2010 will look highly unlikely with each passing attack.

Bottomline Mumbai has crossed a red line for India and Pak will pay a price.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 25 Jan 2009 23:37

Do u know that "Rashtrapati Bhavan" is just the old "Viceroy's Mansion"? A shame. It tells.

sum · Post by **sum** » 25 Jan 2009 23:37

Bottomline Mumbai has crossed a red line for India and Pak will pay a price.

I hope that you are saying this after sensing the mood of all your "high powered" friends and it isnt just jingo-talk (because according to me, India's red lines have been caused 1000s of times before!!!

).

Bhaskar · Post by **Bhaskar** » 26 Jan 2009 00:21

I don't know if this has been posted before but it looks as if our Army backed out of a war... As it was not fully prepared.
Our army has been lagging for quite a few years, because of corruption in our country.
Our Army Backs Out of A War
Though, a few very intelligently planned strikes might be planned, which involves the airforce/navy or the Commandoes.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 26 Jan 2009 00:45

Raju wrote:
Bottomline Mumbai has crossed a red line for India and Pak will pay a price.

No question about this. It may not happen soon enough and dramatically enough for jingos like us but it is coming for sure. In fact, ground is being prepared as we speak--Phalcon, Brahmos pin point test etc. Most of the players have got the message and are reacting already. Pakis have cr@pped in their pants and are handing out blank checks as protection money, UQ is chirping in its own irritating, almost desperate way about cashmere. There is no way any government can leave what has happened unanswered.

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 26 Jan 2009 01:00

petty politiking with 26/11 continues apace...

Modi's Qasab remarks helped Pakistan: Congress

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 26 Jan 2009 01:59

>>In fact, ground is being prepared as we speak--Phalcon, Brahmos pin point test etc.

Add to that the rather extraordinary news about the requisitioning of private aircraft and their crew as required by GoI

Some might regard the sudden action against Jamaat ud Dawa in Muridke (albeit a cosmetic one) as triggered by such signals. Others might not.

It is not often I agree with Raju, actually almost never, but in this case I tend to concur. A huge mistake has been made by those who matter in the Pakistani military establishment, who were aware of Mumbai before it happened. It is time for them to redeem themselves, if they wish to continue in place, by addressing India's demands in a satisfactory way.

Otherwise, it is a matter of time before the powers that have supposedly been "leaning" on India, pull back in resignation. They know us well, or they should by now. Remember the CTBT extension issue, and what happened soon thereafter, at a time of our choosing?

On the other hand, nothing may happen

in which case we do not deserve to survive as a country. If the appropriate lessons have not been learned by now, we can safely assume that Pakistan has been successful in its campaign to cow the government of India into submission.

However, I doubt this is the case.

Meanwhile, the Republic Day parade of tomorrow will be an exhibition of shame, which we will all have to swallow, even if it chokes some of us.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 26 Jan 2009 02:58

If Pakistan continues to be intransigent, one may expect truly startling measures from the GOI.Remember the White Dove card that MMS sent Das Berjent? Very very dire warning.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Pakistani High Commissioner finds that a white dove has "gone" on the seat where he is to sit at the Republic Day Parade.

(quoting sources who asked to remain anonymous 4 the usual reasons)

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 26 Jan 2009 02:59

Remember the CTBT extension issue, and what happened soon thereafter, at a time of our choosing?

However, I am disappointed that Pakistani discourse dares include 'solving Kashmir' and not which to cede first, Sind or Baluchistan?

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 26 Jan 2009 07:56

Actually, my favorite Pak line right now is "we will review all options"

I'm waiting for the first meetings between Obama and Zardari/Geelani.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 26 Jan 2009 10:12

NYT:

2 Militants Die in Shootout in India, Police Say

By HARI KUMAR
Published: January 25, 2009

NEW DELHI — The Indian police said Sunday that two Pakistani militants were killed in a shootout in a suburb of New Delhi, a day before India’s Republic Day celebrations.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 26 Jan 2009 11:37

Experts Insist World Refuses
to Criticize Radical Islam
March 27, 2008 - Jared Shelly, Staff Writer
http://www.jewishexponent.com/article/15691/

Despite mounting evidence -- suicide bombings in London and Madrid, repeated terror attacks elsewhere, and incessant and vehement anti-Israeli propaganda -- people worldwide have become afraid to criticize radical Islam and have even taken to censoring themselves, two Mideast experts last week told a local crowd of nearly 1,000 people.

"The discussion of these matters has become difficult, if not impossible," said Bernard Lewis, the 91-year-old professor emeritus of Near East studies at Princeton University.

Lewis spoke at length about the "pre-emptive cringe" -- a term he coined to describe the worldwide appeasement of radical Islam.

During a March 18 program titled "Clash of the Civilizations: The Final Jihad," which drew a near-capacity crowd to the Annenberg Center for the Performing Arts, the scholar recalled a recent trip to England, where the news item of the day centered around uniformed members of the English Air Force who had been attacked while walking the streets of a certain neighborhood. Buried deep in the story was the fact that the attackers were Muslims who were protesting Britain's involvement in the war in Afghanistan, he said.

"Nobody asked, 'Who are these people?' " said Lewis. "The pre-emptive cringe has gone far indeed."

Dennis Prager, the 59-year-old host of a nationally syndicated talk-radio show, told the crowd that people are so ashamed to criticize Islam that they won't even judge individuals within the religion.

"[They] are called Islamophobic," said Prager.

The situation is similar to a bully at summer camp, he said, where those who are not the bully or the victim just stand idly by.

"People do not want to confront evil," he said.

However, on the world stage, "America stands up to the world's bullies," said Prager to a round of applause.

As for Europe, where the Muslim population is growing and where there are signs of support for its radical contingent, the outlook is particularly dismal, argued Prager.

"Within 50 years, Western Europe will be largely Islamic -- or there will be a civil war," he declared.

People should be worried about the sheer number of people who agree with the principles of radical Islam, continued Prager, noting that, even if the number is as a small as 10 percent of Muslims, "that is 100 million people."

Throughout his talk, Princeton's Lewis attempted to give the audience a sense of the Muslim point of view.

For example, he explained that while many Americans continue to see the fall of the Soviet Union as a victory for the United States, many in the Islamic world believe that it was a victory for them in a jihad.

"There now remains the task of dealing with the pampered Americans," he said.

Lewis also said that Muslims divide the world into two types of people -- those who belong in the "house of Islam" and those who dwell in the "house of the unbelievers."

The continued deliberation in the United States about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is being watched closely by Osama bin Laden and other extremists, explained Lewis.

"What we see as normal democratic debate, they see as fear and division," he said.

A Glimmer of Hope

Lewis ended his formal remarks by recalling the story of Neville Chamberlain, prime minister of the United Kingdom from 1937 to 1940, who conceded Czechoslovakia to Adolf Hitler and the Nazis. Making a modern-day comparison to the West's dealings with radical Islam, Lewis said that the upcoming presidential election has "competing Chamberlains and the hope of a [Winston] Churchill," he said, all but endorsing Republican Sen. John McCain.

After their formal remarks, Prager began interviewing Lewis, who spoke about his optimism for the Arab world. When Israel went to war against Hezbollah in Lebanon in 2006, explained the professor, it was expected that many Arabs would complain; instead, they fell "remarkably silent."

Indeed, stated Lewis, "they were hoping the Israelis would finish the job."

That change represented a glimmer of hope that Israel does not represent the great enemy to all Arab nations.

"It's becoming increasingly clear that more people in the Arab world know they face a threat more deadly than any threat from Israel," continued the scholar. "There are signs of awareness of Israel's democracy."

sum · Post by **sum** » 26 Jan 2009 14:04

I wouldn't be surprised if the Pakistani High Commissioner finds that a white dove has "gone" on the seat where he is to sit at the Republic Day Parade.

(quoting sources who asked to remain anonymous 4 the usual reasons)

Yash · Post by **Yash** » 26 Jan 2009 19:39

Sanjay M wrote:NYT:

2 Militants Die in Shootout in India, Police Say

By HARI KUMAR
Published: January 25, 2009

NEW DELHI — The Indian police said Sunday that two Pakistani militants were killed in a shootout in a suburb of New Delhi, a day before India’s Republic Day celebrations.

NYT is getting soft on the war of Peace. I recall not too long ago (pre 26/11?) when they would have written the above with: Two people were shot dead in India, allegedly militants from Pakistan according to Indian Police. <blah> <blah>. Pakistan denies the Indian charges and says that it only provides moral support to the freedom struggle in Kashmir from Indian Army's atrocities there. barf

Subtle, but an improvement, methinks.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 27 Jan 2009 06:24

Check the photo of the Pak items and GPS used by the terrorists
http://www.hindu.com/nic/dossier.htm

Mumbai Terror attacks - Dossier of evidence

This is a scanned copy of the 69-page dossier of material stemming from the ongoing investigation into the Mumbai terrorist attacks of November 26-29, 2008 that was handed over by India to Pakistan on January 5, 2009.

Evidence 1

Evidence 2

Evidence 3

Some pages from the dossier were originally posted twice in another format. These have been removed. The complete dossier in the possession of The Hindu consists of 69 pages.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 27 Jan 2009 16:54

There is an article by Sandeep in the latest India Today about the Army's unpreparedness due to massive babu delays in procurement mainly,which was why it was ill=prepared to go to war.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 27 Jan 2009 20:19

Pakistan to respond to 26/11 dossier on Thursday

Pakistan is expected to respond to the Indian dossier on the Mumbai [Images] attacks on Thursday after wrapping up its investigation, extending the earlier deadline set by it to complete the probe by two days.

With a 10-day deadline for the completion of a preliminary probe expiring on Tuesday, Interior Ministry chief Rehman Malik held a meeting to review progress made so far in the investigation.

There was no official word on the meeting though Dawn News channel quoted an official source as saying that Malik had extended the deadline for completing the probe till January 29.

The source said the deadline was extended as a review of 'some aspects' of the Indian dossier had not been completed.

Malik had told a news conference on January 17 that a three-member was probing the Mumbai attacks and examining the Indian dossier. The team was expected to submit its preliminary findings within ten days.

The official source told Dawn News that the Pakistan government is also expected to give a response to the dossier to India on January 29. The source said a large part of the investigation had been completed and only a few aspects and angles remained to be probed.

India handed over its dossier on the Mumbai attacks to Pakistan on January 5. Pakistan subsequently acknowledged that Ajmal Amir Kasab [Images], the lone terrorist captured during the Mumbai attacks, was a Pakistani national.

Bhaskar · Post by **Bhaskar** » 27 Jan 2009 22:07

Philip wrote:There is an article by Sandeep in the latest India Today about the Army's unpreparedness due to massive babu delays in procurement mainly,which was why it was ill=prepared to go to war.

Here is the article - http://indiatoday.digitaltoday.in/index ... =90&latn=2

Baljeet · Post by **Baljeet** » 27 Jan 2009 23:22

Raju wrote:sum, it is naive on our part to believe that any govt, even this present govt can ignore Mumbai. There will be tough action ofcourse, but at a time of our choosing.

But my fear is that time may not come at all, because terrorist acts will follow other in quick succession, and the gentle dhotis of dilli will be left wondering what hit them. I am sure there are plans being finalized and implemented as we speak, today Pranab da was saying that Mumbai factor contributed to MMS sudden heart problems. But Pak getting through intact to 2010 will look highly unlikely with each passing attack.

Bottomline Mumbai has crossed a red line for India and Pak will pay a price.

Raju
Are you serious? All pranab is doing is using his clogged arteries for sympathy vote. It is a scam to win the next election. If mumbai attack was such a shocking event how come it clogged the arteries not give him massive congestive failure. Do events have some methodology they clog arteries when there is death of innocent Indians from PITA but these arteries are free flowing when bhai chara is in air.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 27 Jan 2009 23:59

Bhaskar wrote:
Philip wrote:There is an article by Sandeep in the latest India Today about the Army's unpreparedness due to massive babu delays in procurement mainly,which was why it was ill=prepared to go to war.
Here is the article - http://indiatoday.digitaltoday.in/index ... =90&latn=2

joint meetings are held to reduce file movements.

IT has not reached them? Paperless?

aditya · Post by **aditya** » 28 Jan 2009 01:53

http://www.rediff.com/news/2009/jan/27n ... to-pak.htm

Earth-shattering Indian response to Jihadi terrorism: educate terrorists on their mistakes to help them get it right next time. Kinda like a boxing coach.

Must be down to some Chaankiyaan Babu logic about "shaming" Pakistan in front of the "international community". Whatever.

India is expected to hand over to Pakistan details of the two suspected terrorists who were killed by the Uttar Pradesh [Images] Anti-Terrrorism Squad in an encounter two days ago.

The Uttar Pradesh police will soon send information relating to the slain terrorists, including details of a passport recovered from one of them, to the Ministry of External Affairs for on passing to Pakistan for verification, sources in the ATS told PTI on Tuesday

SriniY · Post by **SriniY** » 28 Jan 2009 15:45

Not sure where to post this article

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Terr ... 038562.cms

Terrorists are 'animals': SC judge
27 Jan 2009, 2130 hrs IST, PTI

NEW DELHI: A senior judge of the Supreme Court on Tuesday likened terrorists killing innocent people to "animals" and said they cannot be allowed to take benefit of human rights.

"Those who violate the rights of society and have no respect for human rights cannot be a human," Justice Arijit Pasayat said at a seminar on terrorism here.

"We should not talk about human rights violation of terrorists because terrorists are the people who kill innocent people with AK-47 and AK-56," he said, adding that "those who killed innocent people by no stretch of imagination are human beings. They are worth not more than animals."

Pasayat stressed the need for effective implementation of the new terror law and said that "investigators and prosecutors should be trained properly in this regard".

He said cases relating to terror attacks should be taken on priority basis as "it is the object of the Act".

Solicitor General G E Vahanvati while referring to the November 26 terror attacks in Mumbai said as a lawyer it would have been difficult for him to defend lone surviving terrorist Amir Ajmal Kasab.

"If I would have been asked to defend Kasab, probably I would have refused," Vahanvati, who hails from Mumbai, said.

The solicitor general said he could not defend a person against his conviction.

"If I go and defend a person against my conviction it would be unfair," he said.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 28 Jan 2009 21:23

Yeah, but I do have to wonder about the quality of Their Honours the Supreme Court justices (OK, MY REAL NAME IS ABDUL AND I LIVE IN FAISALABAD...

)

Does Hizzoner understand that the concern is first about those who have not been proven guilty in a court of law? That there is supposed to be a "presumption of innocence" even if you and I THINK we saw the same person machinegunning infants.

I could rationalize statements like the one attributed to Hizzoner, if they came from, say, Raj Thackeray or Praveen Togadia or even the Defence Minister. But not from a serving Justice of the Supreme Court of India.

If we go by Hizzoner's brilliant legal argument, why do we need courts at all? Or to pay Hizzoner's Salary and TA and DA? Why not just kill everyone who is SUSPECTED of terrorism?

As the late unlamented AttorneyCrook General of the USA, Edwin Meese, fa*ted:

Why would you be a suspect unless you were guilty?

But we grew up laughing at that. Now it seems like Their Honners the Supreme Court Judges of India, faced with the reality that Their Honourable Ass*s may be targets of the Pakis, seem to be arguing much worse.

Spineless bunch, that's who's at the top of the govt of India. As Rahul Mehta would have said, "NJBP" all rotten.

Yusuf · Post by **Yusuf** » 28 Jan 2009 22:43

SriniY wrote:Not sure where to post this article

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Terr ... 038562.cms

Terrorists are 'animals': SC judge
27 Jan 2009, 2130 hrs IST, PTI

NEW DELHI: A senior judge of the Supreme Court on Tuesday likened terrorists killing innocent people to "animals" and said they cannot be allowed to take benefit of human rights.

"Those who violate the rights of society and have no respect for human rights cannot be a human," Justice Arijit Pasayat said at a seminar on terrorism here.

"We should not talk about human rights violation of terrorists because terrorists are the people who kill innocent people with AK-47 and AK-56," he said, adding that "those who killed innocent people by no stretch of imagination are human beings. They are worth not more than animals."

Pasayat stressed the need for effective implementation of the new terror law and said that "investigators and prosecutors should be trained properly in this regard".

He said cases relating to terror attacks should be taken on priority basis as "it is the object of the Act".

Solicitor General G E Vahanvati while referring to the November 26 terror attacks in Mumbai said as a lawyer it would have been difficult for him to defend lone surviving terrorist Amir Ajmal Kasab.

"If I would have been asked to defend Kasab, probably I would have refused," Vahanvati, who hails from Mumbai, said.

The solicitor general said he could not defend a person against his conviction.

"If I go and defend a person against my conviction it would be unfair," he said.

Completely agree with what the judge has to say. Coming from the highest judicial body, it will set a precedent to try the terrorists.
Only disagree with one thing the judge had to say. Its alright to deny human rights to terrorists, but why call him an animal? Damn!! Menaka Gandhi will now take up all their cases fighting for animal rights.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 28 Jan 2009 23:13

n^3 ji, I might have missed it but I did not see the presumption of guilt in cases of terrorists in the SC Judge's comments.
could you kindly point me to it ?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 29 Jan 2009 01:15

Pak claims Mumbai attack planned outside: Report
28 Jan 2009, 2229 hrs IST, PTI

Pakistan's probe into the Mumbai terror attacks has established that the strikes were planned outside the country, according to a media report.

* Mumbai attackers should be tried in ICJ: US lawmaker

GoI: We gave you the evidence. washed our hands! baap re baap, that was a great story for elections!
Pakis: We investigated and found nobody willing to take this!!.
US: We should try them in switzerland.. we are closing down gitmo. obama-osama bhai bhai!.
Brits: Somebody here looks like pakis!.. scotland yard sticks different with ice burnt carrots.

Deshis:

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 29 Jan 2009 01:50

http://hsgac.senate.gov/public/_files/012809Tellis.pdf

The above is the testimony of Ashley Tellis today to the US Senate Homeland Security Committee on LeT's global role. I thought that it was a good articulation of LeT's past and future trends.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 29 Jan 2009 02:30

^^whats the point? assimilation is their blood.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 29 Jan 2009 04:15

Rahulji:

Here it is:

"We should not talk about human rights violation of terrorists because terrorists are the people who kill innocent people with AK-47 and AK-56," he said, adding that "those who killed innocent people by no stretch of imagination are human beings. They are worth not more than animals."

Until that has been proven in a court of law per the prescribed processes in the Constitution, no one is a "terrorist". One may be a "suspected terrorist".

After it has been proven, where is the concern about "human rights" raised? I haven't heard of anyone complaining about the treatment of convicted terrorists, except for the Afzal Guru case where ppl have been arguing for not hanging him, but that just prolongs his tenure in jail.

The human rights concern is about the prolonged incarceration without trial of people arrested on suspicion, about the treatment meted out to these people in custody, and about methods used to extract "evidence" - which again is generally only important before the guy is convicted.

So, to me, it sounds like the reference to human rights of terrorists is entirely about the treatment of people arrested and not yet put on trial. And those, in my book must be presumed innocent. Does it sound differently to you, and would you say it sounded differently to his audience?

The law prescribes penalties. Someone who is PROVEN to have "killed innocent people with AK-47 and AK-56" can be sentenced to any term of rigorous imprisonment, or to death by hanging. So where is the need to "treat him like an animal"?

Should the police be given carte blanche to set up their own system of treatment for people, depending on whether they are suspected of killing innocents with an AK47, an AK56 or a pitchfork? Isn't that what Hizzoner is doing?

Which of course raises another issue: What exactly is Hizzoner's concept of how animals should be treated in India? Is he saying it is fine to torture animals? Shouldn't the SPCA file charges against him for insulting animals by comparing them to Pakistani terrorists?

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 29 Jan 2009 05:37

I beg to differ from my learned N guru in this instance, generally I do concur on many occasions..

IN THIS CASE however the Right honorable Mr. Justice is absolutely on the path justice because by and large Indian Neta, police, Press,babus do not call most terrorists as terrorists but only MILITANTS aka Atankavadi not Ugravadi

SO he was in this specific instance having called a militant a terrorist means that due process has been followed for the alleged militant to be re christained as terrorists because all chaarges have been proven in the cout of Law...

Militant after justice is terrorists, terrorists are not humans but Farista, they are supposed to be in Jannat not in zameen but ass_man.

QED

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 29 Jan 2009 06:16

Rahul M wrote:n^3 ji, I might have missed it but I did not see the presumption of guilt in cases of terrorists in the SC Judge's comments.
could you kindly point me to it ?

Maybe not in so many words, but the language is quite intemperate and unsuited for a Supreme Court judge. Not exactly inspiring confidence in the maturity and intellect of people at the top.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 29 Jan 2009 06:17

John Snow wrote:I beg to differ from my learned N guru in this instance, generally I do concur on many occasions..

IN THIS CASE however the Right honorable Mr. Justice is absolutely on the path justice because by and large Indian Neta, police, Press,babus do not call most terrorists as terrorists but only MILITANTS aka Atankavadi not Ugravadi

SO he was in this specific instance having called a militant a terrorist means that due process has been followed for the alleged militant to be re christained as terrorists because all chaarges have been proven in the cout of Law...

Militant after justice is terrorists, terrorists are not humans but Farista, they are supposed to be in Jannat not in zameen but ass_man.

QED

technically ugra-vaadi would translate to rage-ist. Rather than attempt a translation of a foreign metaphor, I would just call them rakshasas.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 29 Jan 2009 09:10

The other part is all those ambu-chasers trying to look holy by claiming that they cannot represent the (terrorism suspect) because it would go against their conscience. This is sheer garbage. They are scared of the mobs. They are also probably falling over each other trying to grab the Ramalingam garu/ Matyas/Satyam account.

They don't have to give fiery speeches proclaiming the (suspect) as a freedom-fighter - all they have to do is to challenge the evidence presented by the prosecution and hold the prosecution to high standards. Then plead guilty and ask that they use a new rope, not an old one, to hang the bugger (Oh! I mean, "innocent until proven guilty" saint).

There is a very serious exposure of lack of professionalism in the Indian judiciary and "Bar". Maybe these guys should be told of the Churchillian maxim:

Sometimes it is better to keep one's mouth shut and let everyone wonder if one is an idiot than to open it and remove all doubt

Both Hizzoner and the Learned Counsel Ambu-Chaser have really stepped in the Pu with their grandiloquence.

Yusuf · Post by **Yusuf** » 29 Jan 2009 13:03

As expected, Pakistan in its investigation has found that the terror attacks in Mumbai did not originate from its soil nor did any organization based there was involved in it.
That has come in a news report in The Dawn. They are yet to officially hand over India a formal reply.
Guess it would be time to prime up the Brahmos, MKIs and test Cold Start. These guys are never going to acknowledge anything

kit · Post by **kit** » 29 Jan 2009 14:41

http://www.zeenews.com/nation/2009-01-2 ... 6news.html

India's response to Mumbai attack inadequate: US policy advisor

lakshmikanth · Post by **lakshmikanth** » 29 Jan 2009 15:33

Yusuf wrote:As expected, Pakistan in its investigation has found that the terror attacks in Mumbai did not originate from its soil nor did any organization based there was involved in it.
That has come in a news report in The Dawn. They are yet to officially hand over India a formal reply.
Guess it would be time to prime up the Brahmos, MKIs and test Cold Start. These guys are never going to acknowledge anything

I have been doing some thinking at a BRF Trainee level and I think that when a neighborhood is violent (Afghan/Pak et al) then there is bound to be some spillover. I do understand that calling Mumbai a "spillover" is dishonest and a blanket view of the porki ISI agenda to bleed India, but neverthless in the very very long term perspective it can be considered as consequence of neighborhood violence. I guess using Brahmos, MKI, cold start or cold sardar would make the "trickle" of violence that is directed against us to turn into a "river". Thats not a big deal coz our ultimate aim is to finish up porkistan. But my thoughts were leading me to a different path and that is:Why not wait for a bit until things really go bad. Balochistan going its way, Waziristan going its way and then play China against the US in Baloch as one of the analysts mentioned. We need to be very very covert here, and probably work with Iran and US to destabilize Chinese interest in Balochistan. This would mean give arms/money and training to the Balochs. This also means covertly destroying the fragility of Pakistan. Just like the nuke powers have Mutually Assured Destruction we can have: Mullah Assured Destruction. MAD (tm)

Once Porkistan is MADed through internal conflicts... we can add our own fuel to the fire.

Unkil bhi khush, Iran bhi Khush, Apun bhi khush.

However only one thing worries me, what if Mumbai was carried out with an N-Device smuggled in through the naval route? All you need is for a hijacked booby trapped Indian boat parked somewhere along Mumbai shoreline. It would be enough to destroy Mumbai and send a Tsunami towards Gujarat. SCARY SH$T... i hope i dont see that ever and hope our babooze are doing something to avert it.

MohanG · Post by **MohanG** » 29 Jan 2009 15:43

"Those who violate the rights of society and have no respect for human rights cannot be a human," Justice Arijit Pasayat said at a seminar on terrorism here.

"We should not talk about human rights violation of terrorists because terrorists are the people who kill innocent people with AK-47 and AK-56," he said, adding that "those who killed innocent people by no stretch of imagination are human beings. They are worth not more than animals."

...

Solicitor General G E Vahanvati while referring to the November 26 terror attacks in Mumbai said as a lawyer it would have been difficult for him to defend lone surviving terrorist Amir Ajmal Kasab.

"If I would have been asked to defend Kasab, probably I would have refused," Vahanvati, who hails from Mumbai, said.

The solicitor general said he could not defend a person against his conviction.

"If I go and defend a person against my conviction it would be unfair," he said.

I do not know the full context (except that it was a seminar on terrorism) in which Justice Pasayat made the comments, but, with due respect, I disagree if the idea is to 'legally' allow the Police to treat terror suspects inhumanly.

Police does employ some 'unusual' techniques in many cases, and these are overlooked by the judicial system. But to publicly condone such behavior should be off limits, especially if it is done by a judge of the highest court in the country. He is not a politician not holding any public office like Bal Thackeray : he is under oath to protect the the Constitution and the laws made under it. He did not advocate a change in the law, but just said terror suspect's (or even convict's) human rights need not be talked about.

Indeed if they are terror convicts, we should talk about their human right to be expeditiously hanged (example Afzal Guru). If they are terror suspects, we should talk about their human right to be expeditiously tried in a court of law. We should also talk about the aam aadmi's human right to have a solid investigation and a speedy trial in such cases.

The difficulty is not the talk about the human rights of the suspects, it is the lack of talk about the human rights of the victims. And the society (or the court) has to hear both out and make a balanced choice.

If the idea was to send a message to the lower courts that they provide some latitude to the investigators, or that the human rights NGO industry stay away from such cases, it could have been better worded. However, his comments and those by the Solicitor General will make it difficult to get a lawyer for Ajmal Kasab. And this is bad both from a theoretical and a practical point of view. Kasab's case would be so easy to prove under Section 302 IPC that no lawyer - howsoever brilliant - stands any chance of saving him. By not giving this guy a lawyer, especially when the case is so strong, our criminal justice system risks appearing petty, primitive, and unjust. Let us give him a proper trial, and when convicted, choose our own time to rid the world of this duraatma (evil soul).

Yusuf · Post by **Yusuf** » 29 Jan 2009 16:37

lakshmikanth wrote: I have been doing some thinking at a BRF Trainee level and I think that when a neighborhood is violent (Afghan/Pak et al) then there is bound to be some spillover. I do understand that calling Mumbai a "spillover" is dishonest and a blanket view of the porki ISI agenda to bleed India, but neverthless in the very very long term perspective it can be considered as consequence of neighborhood violence. I guess using Brahmos, MKI, cold start or cold sardar would make the "trickle" of violence that is directed against us to turn into a "river". Thats not a big deal coz our ultimate aim is to finish up porkistan. But my thoughts were leading me to a different path and that is:Why not wait for a bit until things really go bad. Balochistan going its way, Waziristan going its way and then play China against the US in Baloch as one of the analysts mentioned. We need to be very very covert here, and probably work with Iran and US to destabilize Chinese interest in Balochistan. This would mean give arms/money and training to the Balochs. This also means covertly destroying the fragility of Pakistan.

Already discussed the covert op. And im someone who believes in covert op. But then some overt action is also required so that those SOBs know that we will hit them and hit them hard. America is also mounting both covert and overt strikes.
Killing Dawood for instance requires a covert op, but then if we know which building Hafeez Saeed is hiding in PoK, then get the Brahmos. If Pakistan excalates, then Cold Start.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Jan 2009 21:06

kit wrote:http://www.zeenews.com/nation/2009-01-2 ... 6news.html

India's response to Mumbai attack inadequate: US policy advisor

Why is he commenting on Indian response? Was there disappointment at lack of response for something else didnt happen due to that?

Raju · Post by **Raju** » 29 Jan 2009 21:58

they wanted India to respond, so that they could respond in a covert fashion on behest of Pakistan.