Aero India 2009

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rakall
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by rakall »

merlin wrote:
Tejas pilots are confident enough with the FCS to fly the Tejas without the FCS guys being present at the telemetry centre of NFTC if the previous few flights have been without errors and the FCS guys are running late.
.


Awesome.. Most beautiful..

LCA TP's have certainly come to love the machine..

merlin wrote:
Tejas - maximum distance covered in one ferry flight is Bangalore to Pathankot but this was from ADA and not verified with Tejas pilots.

.
Time calculation:

If LCA has to fly from Bangalore to Pathankot - it has to cruise at optimum speed which will be likely Mach0.85 at 7-8km altitude i.e. approx 850khpm.. Diatance between Pathankot and Bangalore is 2550kms. That means 3hrs of flight time -- I am not sure if NFTC will take such risks with LCA, yet..

Fuel Calculation

1800kgs useful internal fuel (leaving out 400-500kgs reserve)
2 * 1200lt drop tanks = 2400lts fuel = 1920kgs fuel

So total fuel = 3700kgs...

tejas consumes 25-30kgs/min fuel for typical missions with load... lets take 25kg/min - not less bcoz there are two drop tanks attached, not more bcoz no a/b or high performance manuevers.

At 25kg/min, 3700kgs fuel gives 150mins or 2hr 30mins.. which comes to ~2090km (Mach0.85 at 7-8km alt which is nearly optimum).. falling short by 500km..
Last edited by rakall on 16 Feb 2009 19:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by rakall »

Jagan wrote:Kprasad, rakall, merlin and all great job guys!

Perfect way to round off the great pics we have been seeing.

thanks for the effort

meanwhile a couple of other good pics that have been uploaded

Mig-27 UPG

Image
Image

Have got some details on Mig27 upgrade coming-up..
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by rakall »

sum wrote:
Mirage Upgrade:
- upgraded to Dash-5 standards..
- Full glass cockpit -- Cockpit will be upgraded to Dash-5 standards
- RDY-2 will be integrated
- Main weapon upgrade is MICA.. #of hardpoints remains unchanged at 9
Have we finally signed the deal?
Not yet.. like the last para of my post says "negotiations still remain"..

The deal has been "close to signing" for a longtime now (2years atleast)
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by KiranM »

Nitesh wrote:
rakall wrote: BTW - Paki sites are already wetting their pants from our posts.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-def ... 320-a.html
One stage further also if you scan it properly :D
I checked out that link. The posters seems to sport India as their location. Indians on a Pak forum?! False flag ops I guess.
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by Sanku »

Hello Gyani log; Any one asked the status of weaponized dhruv at aero india? Have the weapons been test fired from the heli? What is current range of armaments that Dhruv can use today?
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by KiranM »

merlin wrote: Others have noted that Army SF were equipped with Tavor and Garuds with Insas but with optical sights. CISF was there, DSC also. Security was discrete but present.
Yup, saw a CISF grunt on the roof of a small single storeyed structure next to a water tank. On casual glance wouldnt even have noticed. Had a eerie feeling I was being watched.

Dont think would have seen a camouflaged sniper/ spotter, if they were around.
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by rakall »

KiranM wrote:
merlin wrote: Others have noted that Army SF were equipped with Tavor and Garuds with Insas but with optical sights. CISF was there, DSC also. Security was discrete but present.
Yup, saw a CISF grunt on the roof of a small single storeyed structure next to a water tank. On casual glance wouldnt even have noticed. Had a eerie feeling I was being watched.

Dont think would have seen a camouflaged sniper/ spotter, if they were around.

CISF at the venue were seen carrying Ak47's & butt-folding version of INSAS

A CISF person carrying Ak47 said he likes the Ak47 better bcoz it was continous burst and longer range.
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by k prasad »

Will add a lot of info tomorrow... have a whole book of info.
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by k prasad »

Sanku wrote:Hello Gyani log; Any one asked the status of weaponized dhruv at aero india? Have the weapons been test fired from the heli? What is current range of armaments that Dhruv can use today?
Gun and rockets fired.... saw the video
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by Akshut »

deleted....
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by Akshut »

KiranM wrote:
rakall wrote: BTW - Paki sites are already wetting their pants from our posts.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-def ... 320-a.html


I checked out that link. The posters seems to sport India as their location. Indians on a Pak forum?! False flag ops I guess.

No no they all are Indians. I have joined it 2 times and got banned after bashing the porkis. I mean when I said something even near to truth I was given warnings, and one day I spilled some full fledged truths and got banned. 8)

But these guys do good job by showing the porkis the mirror, of course without getting banned. :P
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by bhart »

deleted...
Last edited by bhart on 16 Feb 2009 22:42, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by vina »

rakall wrote:
merlin wrote:
Tejas - maximum distance covered in one ferry flight is Bangalore to Pathankot but this was from ADA and not verified with Tejas pilots.

.
Time calculation:

If LCA has to fly from Bangalore to Pathankot - .. That means 3hrs of flight time ..

Fuel Calculation

1800kgs useful internal fuel (leaving out 400-500kgs reserve)
.... falling short by 500km..
The latest issue of Vayu has a write up on that titled "On Top of the World". It says, the PV3 (F2J3) and LSP2 (with IN20 engine) ferried out of Bangalore , staging via Nagpur and then on NW to Pathankot . I assumed "staging" meant landing and refuelling.

The article says that the range was limited by lack of " RVSM" equipment (dont know what the hell that stands for if anyone knows, please enlighten), which restricted the ferry altitude below 29000 ft. " The range will "considerably" improve once LCAs are flow at higher altitude with the 2X 1200 ltr wing tank and the 1x 720 liter ventral tank and as it is, LCAs arrived over Pathankot with fair residual fuel left and , as the test pilots observerd, "the GE engine is most efficient and just sips fuel!""
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by krishnan »

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/hea ... oute/rvsm/

Reduced Vertical Separation Minimum
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by m mittal »

RVSM is Reduced Vertical Separation Minimum. For details goto http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RVSM

This would mean that LCA could not attain the altitude needed for maximum fuel efficiency and it flew with sub-maximal fuel efficiency.
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by Rahul M »

an update from a knowledgeable person. :)
we do have single crystal tech & blisk tech but development to full production will take time & that is the key issue.
others who have received this (and you know who you are), please exercise necessary caution if you want to add to the above.
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by SaiK »

we shall wait to see (ddm reports) if IAF and IN are unhappy with F414 and EJ200s sooner or later., of course willing to suffer the pain for this., as its vital.
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by Rahul M »

abhijitm
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by abhijitm »

Rahul M wrote:an update from a knowledgeable person. :)
we do have single crystal tech & blisk tech but development to full production will take time & that is the key issue.
others who have received this (and you know who you are), please exercise necessary caution if you want to add to the above.
you have bought smile on my face; it was a completely gloomy day otherwise

thank you!
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by Kartik »

SaiK wrote:which are the other hottest countries that f-16s are being operated currently?
how about UAE itself, whose F-16 Block 60s were leased for the AeroIndia show? and there's Pukistan as well, where summer temperatures will be as high as any base in India. its not an operational issue, rather a case of oversight by LM when operating it in India. but on a different note, the F-16 landing gear is notoriously delicate and there are a number of cases of it caving in (at least a couple of times, without even a tire burst).
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by JaiS »

Did anyone manage to catch a glipmse of 'Harry' ? :twisted: :)
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by ManuJ »

Did anyone get indications of which way the MRCA contest is tilted? Did the test pilots show any preferences?

Repeating the request made earlier to post, if available, the video of LCA flying display that got our Raksha Mantri so excited.
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by ManuJ »

Rahul M wrote:an update from a knowledgeable person. :)
we do have single crystal tech & blisk tech but development to full production will take time & that is the key issue.
That's somewhat strange. Considering how much is riding on the tech, and the money being paid to foreign firms to get the same, wouldn't it make sense to pump in as much money and resources as is needed to get the tech to full production mode as soon as possible? I understand money/resources don't always help in accelerating R&D efforts, but if production-ization is all that is left...

Also contradicts what GTRE director said in his presentation about single crystal blades - "we do not have that tech at all". Confusing...
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by abhijitm »

ManuJ wrote: Also contradicts what GTRE director said in his presentation about single crystal blades - "we do not have that tech at all". Confusing...
I was confused too. :)

But, things can change. yesterday we didnt, today we do. someone somewhere must have done a complete ToT to RAW.

or, a better scenario, we actually managed breakthrough and its not time to go public yet.
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by Gaur »

rakall wrote:CISF at the venue were seen carrying Ak47's & butt-folding version of INSAS

A CISF person carrying Ak47 said he likes the Ak47 better bcoz it was continous burst and longer range.
I was under the impression that insas was available in full auto :-?
Also, the range of INSAS is surely greater than that of AK47. So I cannot understand why the particular CISF guy would say otherwise :-?
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by MukulMohanty »

Parijat Gaur wrote:
rakall wrote:CISF at the venue were seen carrying Ak47's & butt-folding version of INSAS

A CISF person carrying Ak47 said he likes the Ak47 better bcoz it was continous burst and longer range.
I was under the impression that insas was available in full auto :-?
Also, the range of INSAS is surely greater than that of AK47. So I cannot understand why the particular CISF guy would say otherwise :-?
Only LMG in full Auto... Heard a really interesting story with the team that works on the A&D Industry for the British Government about F-22's. One base has less 60% serviciability because of Sea Gulls. Sea Gulls have a habit of dropping shellfish on the runway to crack 'em open... Despite all attempts, the Gulls haven't been pursuaded to get away from the base!!

As a result, you have high instance of Engine Ingestation... And the F-22 has a pretty sensitive engine.... Btw, now working in the govt, sit right next to Aerospace & Defence Team... Get a lot of books, articles and stuff from them to read. Unfortunately, posting them would be violation of copyright... But would love to fill some anecdotal evidence...
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by k prasad »

ManuJ wrote:
Rahul M wrote:an update from a knowledgeable person. :)

we do have single crystal tech & blisk tech but development to full production will take time & that is the key issue.
That's somewhat strange. Considering how much is riding on the tech, and the money being paid to foreign firms to get the same, wouldn't it make sense to pump in as much money and resources as is needed to get the tech to full production mode as soon as possible? I understand money/resources don't always help in accelerating R&D efforts, but if production-ization is all that is left...

Also contradicts what GTRE director said in his presentation about single crystal blades - "we do not have that tech at all". Confusing...[/quote]

I got that mail too... but I guess the director was talking about actual implementable tech. There is a definite gap between tech and engineering, which is a few years, and it is what we are tying to bridge with the JV...

so there isn't much discord between the two opinions.

Cheers
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by shiv »

:oops: sorry - deleted my post - I had a request that was totally redundant.
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by rakall »

X-posting from Missile tech thread..

K.prasad - have you been able to get any info on Nirbhay?
rakall wrote:Nirbhay

Spoke to a lot of ADE people about Nirbhay – except sketchy words, no concrete info.
Most people say it will have a range between 500-1000km. So you can guess what the range will be.

One person said it will have a 1200kg weight.

While I was talking to a GTRE person discussing about their plans for the small engine - I gathered some details on Nirbhay.. He says the engine is not podded outside at all - the engine will be within the fuselage.. Also he says there may be a small air scoop & "dimpled scoops" on the body.. I dont know how true it could be..

The engine is likely to have 350-400kgf thrust and an sfc of 1kg.kgf/hr.

Based on that I have done some calculations.

1200kg – leave out 300kg for warhead, 75kg for seeker+guidance+electronics, 75kg for engine… That leaves us with 750kgs..
Assume ~250-300kg empty weight (fuselage, wings, wing unfolding mechanism etc).. leaves us with 450-500kgs of fuel.. Take the conservative estimate of 450kgs fuel..

An average thrust of 375kgf will give a flight time of 1.2hrs..
A Mach 0.75 = approx 750kmph flight at 1.2hrs gives a range of 900km..

Without doing a full-fledged sensitivity analysis… take a 10% variation on the range will give a range between 800-1000km.. Thats my interpolation..

The 36MT or 50MT engines we ordered from Russia for Lakshya will invariably be used for first few developmental flights of Nirbhay.. There after , what will it be

- whether Russia allows licensed production for the engine
- we develop a small gas turbine on our own (GTRE has a paper design)
- we will have to see a way of uprating/adopting PTAE-7 or a variant of it (though I don’t know how the size works out if you have to put it inside the fuselage & not podded outside)
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by rakall »

Cross-posting from Mil aviation thread
rakall wrote:DARE – SPJ

DARE is going great guns of EW systems & avionics.

- Mig27 upgrade details we all know. Mig27’s after upgrade have an external SPJ – Tusker pod (generally not shown on the Mig27 upgrade brochure, for obvious reasons)
- Upgraded Jags have an Israeli external SPJ – integrated by DARE
- Su30 has an external SPJ Russian (there is so much electronics already inside Su30 – it is better to have external SPJ)

But DARE is moving onto to a new integrated system in which they are bringing the RWR and SPJ together. The system is called RWJ – Radar Warner Jammer (Codename not revealed)

They are developing RWJ for Mig27, Mig29 & LCA.
So ultimately LCA will have an internal jammer in the form of RWJ – at least in Mk2 versions.
(I think he said PV1 was designated as the platform. Or was it GTRE person who said PV1 will be the platform for Kaveri – memory is slightly clouded)

They have moved on from 386 processors to 486 processors for all new systems

The new RWR systems called R-118 will be retrofitted on all fighter aircraft except Su30MKI slowly.. May be on newer Su30MKI but probably they will leave Tarang Mk2 on older Su30MKI.

Tarang mk1 RWR – 2-18GHz freq -55dBM signal
Tarang mk2 RWR – 2-18GHz freq -65dBM signal
R-118 system – RWR 1-18GHz freq -65dBM signal + MSWS

MSWS – Multi Sensor Warning System includes MAWS + LWS
The R-118 system combines RWR+MAWS+LWS. Tested extensively on Hack. Will be retrofitted onto most fighter aircraft starting with Mig27.

Summary:
- RWR system has matured far beyond Tarang
- DARE developed SPJ was tested against all fighter a/c in IAF inventory and worked well. We are doing very well on RWR & SPJ systems.
- New generation RWJ (internal jammer) is ready to be deployed on Mig27’s. Will also be developed for Mig29 & LCA.
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by k prasad »

rakall wrote:X-posting from Missile tech thread..

K.prasad - have you been able to get any info on Nirbhay?
Sorry mate... didn't get much info on future missiles, or at least the ones not yet shown.

But great info you got there....

Also have a lot of info about DARE from Dr. Revankar's presentation.... will add.
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by merlin »

Isn't the MAWS a two-colour sensor in the IR band. They are working on a MAWS in the UV band.
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by rakall »

merlin wrote:Isn't the MAWS a two-colour sensor in the IR band. They are working on a MAWS in the UV band.
Very good question !!!

MAWS for the fighters, helos, transport a/c is in UV band..

MAWS that DARE is working on for the AEW&C is dual-color..
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by sum »

Superb info, Rakall-ji.....

Truly yeoman service you are performing.
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by k prasad »

As I posted before (on 10th I think), Tejas range has been expanded to 1354 km.
Did anyone get indications of which way the MRCA contest is tilted? Did the test pilots show any preferences?
I spoke to some pilots (I think the no was 4 or 5, including 2 from ASTE, and one from a Su sqn), but all of them said the same thing - That just because a machine flies well doesn't mean it will be selected. Thats not to say that they will choose a lead brick just because it has all the gizmos. But the point they were trying to make was that beyond a certain point, the aerodynamic performance will not really count (I asked one guy what he thought about the EF display, and he said it was ok, but nothing that our own machines cannot do... he was more impressed with its sensors).

When asked about their choice, they were all unanimous that they would like a machine that didn't need them to do a lot of stuff, or overload them with info - in the sense, excellent sensor fusion and a highly advanced cockpit. When I pushed them further about which one that'd be, they all became pretty careful (although one guy mentioned that he was definitely surprised at the level of sophistication of the Mig-35 cockpit, which he hadn't expected from the Russians).

I think in terms of pilot acceptance, they like the F-16. But that shouldn't mean that they'll choose the F-16, since they also looked at sensor suite extemely seriously. They are also not ignorant about upgrades and political issues. But I guess if all machines were equal, and they were buying them from the same store, without any conditions, they'd choose the F-16, followed by the Typhoon (the Gripen comes really really close behind). They were all disappointed that the Rafale hadn't come.

The big thing is that they are almost as clueless about the requirements as we are - they will fly any machine we buy, and admirably well that too, but it is for the Air HQ to decide the doctrine & role which the machines will fill. Either way, the pilots are ready... I quote here, "whatever the mission is, we'll be the best at it, in whatever the platform. If we could do so well against modern aircraft with the Mig-21, there should be no problem with these aircraft."

Rakall, Any info from ur end??? I'm sure there is...

Btw, the pilot I spoke to about the LCA was from ASTE - he was at the F-18 Simulator just ahead of me, and there was a small crowd, so we did have a minute or so to talk about it. He was also one of the persons i asked about teh MMRCA.
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by RayC »

The top Contenders

The more than Rupees 42,000 crore tender for the 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA), which was floated in 2007, was sent out to six contenders. The trials are due in a couple of months. Competing for the world’s largest single tender defence contract are the two American giants, Boeing IDS, Lockheed Martin, Russia’s MiG- 35, French Dassault Aviation’s Rafale, Sweden’s Gripen of Saab and the European consortium’s EADS’ Eurofighter Typhoon aircraft. Suman Sharma examines the six contenders in fray.

The US giant Boeing Integrated Defence Systems (IDS)’ F/A-18E/F ‘Super Hornet’ is competing in the Rupees 42,000 crore MMRCA deal for the IAF. Already operational in the US Navy, the Super hornet has its twin engines from General Electric, the F414-GE-400, which have 22,000 pounds (98 Kn) of thrust per engine, making it 44,000 pounds (196 Kn) per aircraft.

Capable of day and night strikes with precision-guided weapons, anti air warfare, close air support, maritime strike, the Super hornet has a distinctive caret-shaped inlet to provide increased airflow and reduced radar signature.

It is highly departure resistant through its operational flight envelope and has a reconfigurable digital flight-control system.

The aircraft, with a decade-long operational history, is built by a team comprising US companies like Boeing, Northrop Grumman, GE Aircraft Engines and Raytheon,

The aircraft is also integrated with an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, as per the IAF requirements, along with an advanced targeting forward-looking infrared system and a multifunctional information distribution system.

The US-based Lockheed Martin Company which has fielded the F-16IN, ‘fighting falcon’ in the race, which offers the highest thrust engine in the competition through the General Electric F110-132A. It has 32,000 pounds of thrust with a record of safety, reliability, maintainability and durability. The F110 incorporates the latest technology, including full authority digital engine control, for maximum fuel efficiency and performance. According to the makers of the superjet, the F-16 is the most reliable, maintainable and safest multirole fighter in the world, based on more than 13 million flight hours in peacetime and combat operations. The support approach provided is the lowest life-cycle cost and operating within the existing IAF infrastructure. The F-16IN is a supersonic aircraft, as are other fourth generation fighters. When configured with no weapons, tanks or other stores that create drag, F-16s have a top speed of Mach 2.0. In the mach 1.1 realm, during test operations without engaging afterburner, the falcon cannot attain supercruise capability. However, as defined by the United States Air Force, “supercruise” is the capability to reach and maintain a minimum speed of Mach 1.5 (1.5 times the speed of sound) in a fully combat loaded aircraft without the use of afterburners. The 5th Generation Lockheed Martin F-22 is the only operational combat aircraft in the world today that has the ability to supercruise as defined by the USAF.

The special capability that the aircraft has on offer for the IAF is the Northrop Grumman APG-80 active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar which is the only AESA that is operational today with an international customer. This revolutionary all-weather, precision targeting sensor provides outstanding situational awareness and detection; ultrahighresolution synthetic aperture radar mapping, fully interleaved modes of operations with automatic terrain following; and air-to-air tracking of multiple targets. Other features are a modern, full-color, all-digital glass cockpit. The large color displays are capable of fusing data from on- and off-board sensors, advanced survivability features. The low radar signature of the F-16IN reduces detection by enemy radars. Its single-engine design has smaller infrared and visual signature than twin-engine fighters. The fusion of net-centric operations and onboard data provides a total battle space picture and optimizes mission accomplishment. The F-16 was the first multi-role fighter to incorporate a data link capability, and the IAF’s Operational Data Link (ODL) can be integrated onto the F-16IN when available, ensuring interoperability with other IAF aircraft.

Sweden’s Gripen International from Saab has offered the Indian Air Force, Gripen IN, for their MMRCA requirement, which is a new aircraft but been custom-made to suit the Indian requirements with its best and latest technologies from Sweden, Europe and the US.

Gripen IN is based on the newly launched Gripen NG, the next generation of Gripen, an enhanced version of the well proven Net Centric Warfare Gripen multi-role fighter, which has unbeatable low acquisition, operation and support costs. Gripen IN provides freedom of choice in weapons and sensors and an sustained sortie generation rate through high availability.

According to Gripen officials, all necessary technologies would be transferred to India to enable Indian industry and the IAF to build, operate and modify Gripen to meet all indigenous requirements over time. Gripen IN has huge future growth potential for India to harness to the maximum extent, ensuring that this fighter above all others, will stay in the lead as future technology brings yet greater effectiveness and firepower” he continued. Operational in the Swedish Air Force, the light weight single engine aircraft, is integrated with the latest generation of weapons system, with an open and flexible architecture providing ease of integration of new equipment, systems and weapons, including a fully integrated advanced sensors and weapon fusion, comprising an AESA radar IRST sensor.

Old faithful and a strong contender for the deal, Russia’s Rosoboronexport has fielded the single-engined MiG-35 in the fray. Mig-35 has a capability of ground target destruction with high precision weapons without entering the air defence zones at any time of the day and in any kind of weather condition. Equipped with state of the art avionics and advanced weapons, the aircraft has an edge in carrying out its various roles.


The RD-33MK engine, with its increased thrust power has a smokeless combustion chamber and a new electronic control system, thereby ensuring the aircraft a superiority in its ‘dogfight’ manouvres.

The airborne avionics of the aircraft are based on new generation technologies. The aircraft also has the multi-role radar with active phased array. Other unique features of the aircraft include increased quantity of detected, tracked and attacked targets, extended range of operating frequencies, extended detection range, high jamming protection and survivability. Capabilities like radio electronic reconnaissance and electronic counter measures, decoy dispensers to counteract the enemy in the radar and infrared ranges and optronic systems for detection of attacking missiles and laser emission, give the aircraft an edge over others. The Mig-35 allows installation onboard of new equipment and weapons of Russian and foreign origin upon customer’s request. The contenders have to fulfill the mandatory fifty percent offset obligation as per the tender, which makes it compulsory for the manufacturer to invest half the amount of the deal into Indian industries. The present scenario requires that the Government hastens the process and equips the IAF squadrons with the required numbers for multi-tasking like deep penetration strike, air superiority, air defence, reconnaissance and electronic warfare roles.

The twin-engined French Rafale from Dassault Aviation, is operational in the French Navy. The aircraft has a reduced radar signature measures and has classified stealth design features.

The fighter is capable of carrying an integrated electronic survival system christened ‘SPECTRA’ which features a software-based virtual stealth technology, which arms the aircraft with the highest survivability assets against airborne and ground threats.


The real-time data link allows communication not only with other aircraft, but also with fixed and mobile command and control centres.

An Integrated Modular Avionics (IMA), called MDPU (Modular Data Processing Unit) forms the core systems of the aircraft. Flight management system, Data Fusion, Fire Control, Man-Machine Interface, are other special functions of the aircraft.


The eight-year old Germany-based European consortium comprising France, Spain, United Kingdom and Germany as partners, the European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company.

EADS), boasts of a beyond visual range air to air combat capability.

At a mach 2 speed and also the only fourth generation aircraft to have supercruise capability without afterburners or wet power in the twinengined Eurofighter Typhoon.

EADS launched its India operations in April 2008, unveiling the mighty Typhoon.

The cockpit has a multi function color head down display, multifunction data entry and integrated voice warning system and status systems. Special capabilities in the Typhoon has ever since been designed as a highly agile air superiority and air-to-surface weapon system with true multi-role capabilities. This means the ability to carry out several roles during a single mission.

Euro fighter's weapon inventory has been continuously expanded as part of pre-planned product enhancement and India will get the most capable Eurofighter that will fulfill the expectations of the IAF.

This will include the integration of new weapons like Paveway IV and the GBU-10/16 Laser Guided Bombs alongside integrating a Laser Designator Pod (LDP) into Tranche 2 aircraft. The Human Machine Interface will also receive performance upgrades required for the simultaneous swing role operation, allowing a pilot to continue a bomb run while at the ame time fight air attacks by minimizing the pilot’s workload in complex air warfare scenarios.

The final Tranche 1 capability already covers air-to-ground operations with Paveway II and GBU-10/16 Laser Guided Bombs plus conventional bombs and the gun. The aircraft has 13 hard points and is capable of carrying six air-to-air missiles in addition to air-to-surface weapons like the Paveway II or GBU-10/16, or external fuel tanks on seven further hard points.

http://www.salute.co.in/070209/lifestyl ... ature.html
rakall
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by rakall »

k prasad wrote:As I posted before (on 10th I think), Tejas range has been expanded to 1354 km.

.
With drop tanks or internal fuel? If that is with droptanks - which ones, 1200lt or 800lt?


My (conservative) estimation says that range is with 2 * 800lts drop tanks.. with 2 * 1200lt drop tanks we should get another 22mins = 325km..
R Arun
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by R Arun »

ManuJ wrote:Did anyone get indications of which way the MRCA contest is tilted? Did the test pilots show any preferences?
well i spoke to normal front line fighter pilots of mig29,mig27 and mirage well both the mig pilots said they would be happy with a mig35,where as the mirage pilot said he would like the rafale to win,one thing i found is that all the pilots love their existing planes.

also spoke to a flight instructer for the ALH the combat version asked him about is favorite for the attack helicopter he said apache,i asked him about is taughts on mi28ne, he said are u talking about mi23.i said no mi28, then he said he hasnt seem them.
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by k prasad »

merlin wrote: 1. AEW&C - Elevation coverage is +-20 degrees. Airframe modifications done taking into account antenna pod dimensions, etc. hence you see the additional strakes, etc. on the latest model (compared to the earlier model). IAF apparently did not ask for full 360 coverage and are OK with 240 degrees.
Good... corraborates with what I have added. Small correction, the exact elevation traverse is 17 deg- cc Dr. Christopher. (coverage may be a bit expansive since it implies that we can pinpoint in 3D also, which isn't really possible with the AEW).

Good point about the IAF not asking for 360 coverage - as I mentioned before, that would have entailed a far bigger project, a bigger platform, and bigger risk due to bigger tech jump. IAF decided to go for a smaller, low risk project, resulting in the 240 coverage... still, the radar is so good that it can go to 300 at full range, and more, with range reduction, so we haven't really lost much.

The earlier model vis a vis latest model differences are mainly due to the start of the aerodynamic tests by Embraer, and the finalization of all sensors and subsystems. This has led to a far better understanding of the extra surfaces required, and the overall look.... the older model was just an Emb-145 with the radar and a concussion on the head for the COMINT.
merlin wrote: 2. GTRE - two engines to be sent simultaneously to Russia, one to CIAM for simulated high altitude tests and the other to the Il-76 flying testbed that has a pod which will contain the Kaveri (replacing one of the four engines).
2 Engines - interesting..... I thought it'd be one engine that would be sent since they'd have already tested the previous ones, but based on ur inputs, I guess K8 and K9 will be sent (k7 was displayed in AI). Was the guy u spoke to sure about this??? Coz director only mentioned sending over 'a' engine...
merlin wrote: 3. Tejas - maximum distance covered in one ferry flight is Bangalore to Pathankot but this was from ADA and not verified with Tejas pilots. Tejas pilots are confident enough with the FCS to fly the Tejas without the FCS guys being present at the telemetry centre of NFTC if the previous few flights have been without errors and the FCS guys are running late. DFCC runs without a commercial RTOS, there is a home-brew kernel running in assembly language and everything runs on it. Software is delivered in releases and versions. Various versions were present, the first one was with fixed gains, the second with scheduled gains, then ones with stores, etc. The ETS (Engineering Test Station) that you see in brochures was actually seized by the US authorities and we didn't get it back and had to build one again back in India. Tejas LSP3 will fly soon, PV5 as well (twin seat IAF trainer). Naval twin seat trainer will fly before the Naval single seat variant.
Excellent info... added a lot to what I hadn't put in my posts on the issue from the ADA Director's talk.

LSP3 will have MMR radar, as rakall has mentioned...

Any more info???
merlin wrote: In interesting tidbit not directly related to Tejas - while Tejas has a four channel redundant FBW with all four channels running identical software on identical hardware, the Gripen has three channel redundant FBW, with two channel running the FCS code with different software (i.e., written in different language) but on identical hardware while the third channel has different hardware as well!
Mk2 Tejas will also have a triplex Fly-by-light FCS. I have posted that in either this thread or the LCA thread. Didn't ask about the hardware or running platform itself.
merlin wrote:4. BEL - follow on to SV 2000 in testing.
It is called the XV2004.... is meant for fixed wing a/c and helos. It has already been installed on a dornier.

Will post on that in full in my report on Varadarajan's talk on Indian airborne radar development.
merlin wrote: 5. MCA - interestingly they didn't allow a guy to take pictures of the model from below so I was intrigued. I tried that too only to be prevented! The model displayed in one that has undergone wind tunnel testing so the design is close (because the models cost money to build).
May not be finalized.... the construction of a wind tunnel model means that they gave serious thought to the configuration, but that need not mean that teh MCA will look like that. Given that it is still in preliminary design studies, they will be identifying how the different aerodynamic elements in that model behave, so we may end up seeing some aspects of this model in the final design, but it may not be close - the LCA wind tunnel model with canards looks similar, but isn't really that close.

I think we may see slightly larger wings on the final MCA than what was in the model - given teh size of the wings, they either wanted really high speeds (supercruise???) and depended on powerful engines, or they want to optimize it for A2A. Either way, I think the final wings may change shape a bit (the present wingform is slightly unconventional if you look closely) and may also have slightly larger wings to reduce the loading.

I sure do wonder why they stopped you from taken pix from below.... if it was a lady scientist, then it may have had nothing to do with the model itself :twisted:.
merlin wrote: 6. Nishant - has a dual channel redundant FCS since no human lives are involved. Was easier to develop compared to Tejas FCS - no surprises there.
The implementation is digital... Lakshya is analog FCS, but will become digital soon (Mk.2).
merlin wrote: I got a good feeling about Tejas FCS based on the approx two hour talk I had with a guy on the team - its pretty mature relative to the initial days and they do a lot of testing before it gets into the aircraft. I got a good feeling about the program as a whole, we have done some amazing things considering we started after a huge gap after the Marut.
2 hrs!!! wow.... would really love an unclassified report on that.

Right now, the Trainer and Naval FCS are being tested on the Ironbird rig.
merlin wrote:Others have noted that Army SF were equipped with Tavor and Garuds with Insas but with optical sights. CISF was there, DSC also. Security was discrete but present.
There were also Army SF in Secret service type Mufti.... I spoke to one of them, and he was quite shocked how I knew, so I had to explain my full sherlock holmes style deduction to come out of there alive. :D
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Re: Aero India 2009

Post by k prasad »

rakall wrote:
k prasad wrote:As I posted before (on 10th I think), Tejas range has been expanded to 1354 km.

.
With drop tanks or internal fuel? If that is with droptanks - which ones, 1200lt or 800lt?


My (conservative) estimation says that range is with 2 * 800lts drop tanks.. with 2 * 1200lt drop tanks we should get another 22mins = 325km..
Drop tanks.... we have only integrated 800lt ones as of now, so that was what was used.

the Tejas may have been able to go that distnce on internal fuel alone, but the testing and flying guys are taking no chances till the envelope is expanded further .... tis was one of the reasons why they had been pushing hard for drop tank integration.

P.S.... have I added a report on my talk with the Gripen ppl??? I have added about rafale, but anyone reembers if I have added about gripen??? If not, I'll add....
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