Indian Military Aviation

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
Post Reply
Juggi G
BRFite
Posts: 1070
Joined: 11 Mar 2007 19:16
Location: Martyr Bhagat Singh Nagar District, Doaba, Punjab, Bharat. De Ghuma ke :)

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Juggi G »

The Full & Final Retirement of the MiG-23s

Final Touchdown
Indian Express
Final Touchdown
Manu Pubby

Posted: Feb 20, 2009 at 2226 hrs IST

Close to three decades after the aircraft were bought from the erstwhile USSR to counter Pakistan’s then newly acquired F-16 air superiority fighters, the Indian Air Force (IAF) will bid a final farewell to the last of its MiG-23 ‘swing wing’ fighters.

The MiG-23 BN aircraft from IAF’s 221 Squadron will fly out from the Halwara airbase on March 6 for a final sortie that will wrap up its 30 years in the Air Force. The jets were once known as formidably fast supersonic fighters that were originally designed as a replacement for the MiG-21 fighter. Now, of course, it’s their turn to retire for good.

Most of IAF’s fleet of MiG-23s has already been phased out and the last batch that will fly off from Halwara is the ground-attack version of the aircraft. The MiG-23 MF, the air-superiority version of the fighter, was phased out in 2007. The aircraft had a unique ‘swing wing’ technology, in which the wings of the jet would be swept back when it achieved high speeds and would be put back into ‘forward’ mode at slow speeds and for landing.

While the jet was known for its high-speed performance and an extraordinarily powerful power plant, it was beset with the traditional problems of Russian fighters — it had a dubious safety record and unreliable engines. The last few years saw frequent crashes as the fighters reached the limit of their service life.
But they still have their fans. “The MiG-23s were like rockets. They were very, very fast indeed and the acceleration was remarkably good. They bought in new methods of weapons delivery and a different technology from the Western fighters in service,” says former Air Chief Marshal S P Tyagi.

The fighters did not take part in any conflict but were pressed into service during the Kargil operations and carried out patrols during the 2001-02 standoff with Pakistan.

But even more interesting than their service in the Air Force is the story behind how the fighters were bought by India from the erstwhile USSR.

Old timers recall that the fighters took part in a competition for a Deep Penetration Strike Aircraft (DPSA) for the Air Force in the 1970s. However, the Russian fighter did not meet the requirements of the Air Force in terms of avionics and range. A decision was taken to buy the British Jaguar fighters instead.

That was during the peak of the Cold War and the Russians did not take too kindly to India buying a Western aircraft. As a retired officer says, the USSR was “somewhat disappointed” at the choice.

Things changed dramatically after Pakistan managed to strike a deal with the USA to buy its latest F-16 fighters, sending a wave of panic across the Indian Air Force. USSR then offered India the MiG-23 to counter the American jets at “very friendly prices”.

As an officer says, the terms of payment were “unbelievably true” and the fighters were given to India “virtually free” as the USSR was keen to retain its hold on the Indian defence market. A deal was signed and the first of the fighters entered service in 1980.
AdityaM
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2062
Joined: 30 Sep 2002 11:31
Location: New Delhi

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by AdityaM »

[quote="Juggi G"]The Full & Final Retirement of the MiG-23s

Final Touchdown
Indian Express

An older article on retiring of Mig23 MFs
MiG-23 takes its final flight into history
Avinash R
BRFite
Posts: 1973
Joined: 24 Apr 2008 19:59

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Avinash R »

IAF to install Aerosat Radar at Southern Air Command
Radhakrishnan also said that the control of Maritime Air Operations (MAO), now under South Western Air Command, would be handed over to the Southern Air Command here.

IAF sources said in New Delhi that they have already geared up air defence units by placing mobile radars all along the southern coast particularly to secure sensitive infrastructure following the first LTTE attack in 2007.

Those radars and air defence units are already in place and are keeping a round-the-clock vigil and are ready to meet any challenges rogue aerial vehicles may pose, the sources said.

After the Mumbai attacks there had been intelligence inputs that the next terror strike could be through the aerial route following which the IAF had strengthened its air defence units all across the country.
Last edited by Gerard on 22 Feb 2009 22:28, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: copyright
svinayak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14222
Joined: 09 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by svinayak »

Image

Check the dates of acquisition and frequency in 1980s

To change the threat perception in the 80s due to Pakistan getting F-16 and qualitative increase in def budget of Pakistan Indian response had been aggressive.
ajay_ijn
BRFite
Posts: 318
Joined: 30 Aug 2007 20:43

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by ajay_ijn »

IAF's maritime assets to come under Southern Air Command
THIRUVANANTHAPURAM: The responsibilities of the Southern Air Command (SAC), the youngest of the IAF Commands, is set to go up by quite a few notches.

From April 1 this year, all maritime assets of the Indian Air Force will be placed under the Southern Command, SAC chief Air Marshal S Radhakrishnan said on Friday.

At present, the Maritime Air Operations Headquarters at Mumbai handles maritime operations of the IAF. The Mumbai setup will remain, but the operational control of the maritime assets will be vested with the SAC, Radhakrishnan said.
Suddenly Southern airspace is getting more importance, Jaguars, flankers, Aerostats, war games.
Last edited by Gerard on 22 Feb 2009 22:27, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: copyright
KrishG
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 1290
Joined: 25 Nov 2008 20:43
Location: Land of Trala-la

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by KrishG »

MCA handout at Aero India 09

Image
Image
ajay_ijn
BRFite
Posts: 318
Joined: 30 Aug 2007 20:43

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by ajay_ijn »

While they bombed, diapers kept Sukhoi pilots dry
url
BANGALORE: Behind the precision attacks on ground and off-shore targets by the famed air warriors was the comfort of nappies.

The Indian Air Force (IAF) pilots of the lethal fighter aircraft like the Sukhoi 30 MKI and the Mirage 2000 who showed their skills in the recently concluded ‘Dakshin Prahar’ air defence between February 18 and February 24, wore adult diapers beneath their flight suits.

These aircraft carried out a variety of roles in long duration, long-range missions starting from Pune and encompassing Agatti and Minicoy in the Lakshadweep & Minicoy Islands during the exercise.

Sources told The New Indian Express that pilots of the frontline fighters like the Sukhoi 30 MKI who flew for a duration of about five to six hours during the exercise wore diapers.

``The pilots did wear diapers during the exercise as they were involved in long range missions. In the past too, they have resorted to this practice when they went to participate in Cooperative Cope Thunde in the US,” said sources.

Aircraft like the Sukhoi 30 MKI allows pilots to relieve themselves during flight and pilots are provided with diapers as a precautionary measure.

“The diapers come in handy due to the long duration of time spent in the cockpit and also because the profiles they carried out during the missions,” added sources. The mission profiles included precision attacks on ground and off-shore targets and intercept geometries involving beyond visual range as well as all aspect of air to air missiles.

During the mission, IL-78 aircraft were available in the air to refuel the combat aircraft at vantage points.
Sid
BRFite
Posts: 1655
Joined: 19 Mar 2006 13:26

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Sid »

ajay_ijn wrote:While they bombed, diapers kept Sukhoi pilots dry
wow, and in this whole white world they could find only this news to print. and news too is written in such a way that local Indian junta will think that it is something special that IAF pilots are made to do because IAF don't have better systems.

rants aside, does MKI have LGB capability or they are only used for lasing targets for other strike platforms. I have only seen conventional bombs on MKI till now (excluding long range AGMs).
sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10205
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by sum »

wow, and in this whole white world they could find only this news to print. and news too is written in such a way that local Indian junta will think that it is something special that IAF pilots are made to do because IAF don't have better systems.
Absolutely, there is no problem if they do mention it (im certain not more than 0.01 % of junta would know it) but for heavens sake, mention that it is a common practice across AFs.
Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 17166
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Rahul M »

mention that it is a common practice across AFs.
like they would know that ! :roll:
this is DDM we are talking about !
dipayan
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 25
Joined: 26 Dec 2008 08:20
Location: Daytona Beach, FL

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by dipayan »

ajay_ijn wrote:While they bombed, diapers kept Sukhoi pilots dry
url

Aircraft like the Sukhoi 30 MKI allows pilots to relieve themselves during flight and pilots are provided with diapers as a precautionary measure.
I knew about the diapers but the article also seems to imply that the Sukhois have some sort of toilets onboard ????
Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5872
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Kartik »

dipayan wrote:
I knew about the diapers but the article also seems to imply that the Sukhois have some sort of toilets onboard ????
yes, with both hot and cold water available and if the pilots want, they can take a shower as well. tauliya is kept on a hanger inside the cockpit, alongwith a bar of Cinthol saabun.
Katare
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2579
Joined: 02 Mar 2002 12:31

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Katare »

I think MKI does have a toilet or at least it was an option.
Mihaylo
BRFite
Posts: 762
Joined: 09 Nov 2007 21:10

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Mihaylo »

Kartik wrote:
dipayan wrote:
I knew about the diapers but the article also seems to imply that the Sukhois have some sort of toilets onboard ????
yes, with both hot and cold water available and if the pilots want, they can take a shower as well. tauliya is kept on a hanger inside the cockpit, alongwith a bar of Cinthol saabun.

:rotfl: :rotfl: I thought it was lifebuoy.
NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19327
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by NRao »

Only the Su Platypus is equipped with toilet facilities, and, IIRC a small galley too.
Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5872
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Kartik »

NRao wrote:Only the Su-34 is equipped with toilet facilities, and, IIRC a small galley too.
all just myths..Ken the Flankerman on AFM would probably testify to that.
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34981
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by shiv »

Kartik wrote:
NRao wrote:Only the Su-34 is equipped with toilet facilities, and, IIRC a small galley too.
all just myths..Ken the Flankerman on AFM would probably testify to that.
Off topic for this thread but..

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1806310/posts
Su-34: a long history Sukhoi began investigating the possibility of an attack version of the heavy Su-27 fighter in the early 80s. Initially it was to be based on the two-seater trainer, but in the course of time more and more changes became necessary. The most important decision was the change to a large cockpit with adjacent ejector seats behind which there is even a toilet and a small kitchen. A pressurised cabin like in an airliner allows the crew to work without an oxygen mask. All the measures taken in the “comfort” development programme served to prevent the crew from getting tired during operations, which were expected to be long (ten hours or more with air refuelling). Protection was also given a great deal of attention, with 17 mm of armour plating around the cockpit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-34
A small toilet and a galley are located behind the crew seats.
sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10205
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by sum »

Kartik wrote: yes, with both hot and cold water available and if the pilots want, they can take a shower as well. tauliya is kept on a hanger inside the cockpit, alongwith a bar of Cinthol saabun.
:rotfl: :rotfl:
Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66589
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Singha »

these is a co that specializes in this realm of piss-kology

http://omnimedicalsys.com/index.php?page=products
SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36427
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by SaiK »

wiki says su34 10 nos with russians and they have ordered another 48 of them.
ajay_ijn
BRFite
Posts: 318
Joined: 30 Aug 2007 20:43

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by ajay_ijn »

Kartik wrote:
dipayan wrote:
I knew about the diapers but the article also seems to imply that the Sukhois have some sort of toilets onboard ????
yes, with both hot and cold water available and if the pilots want, they can take a shower as well. tauliya is kept on a hanger inside the cockpit, alongwith a bar of Cinthol saabun.
waat about entertainment, they can't be expected to just sit there for 5 hrs non-stop. may be an ipod with chai biskoot.
k prasad
BRFite
Posts: 980
Joined: 21 Oct 2007 17:38
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow
Contact:

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by k prasad »

dipayan wrote:
ajay_ijn wrote:
While they bombed, diapers kept Sukhoi pilots dry
url

Aircraft like the Sukhoi 30 MKI allows pilots to relieve themselves during flight and pilots are provided with diapers as a precautionary measure.
I knew about the diapers but the article also seems to imply that the Sukhois have some sort of toilets onboard ????[/quote]

Not toilets, but I seem to remember that Su-30s and other aircraft provide a sort of catheter to the pilots to collect the erm... 'wastes', much like what Astronaut suits have... IIRC, this was in a report from one of the foreign exercises.... it said that the older aircrafts didnt have it and the pilots had to wear diapers.
Chandragupta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3469
Joined: 07 Dec 2008 15:26
Location: Kingdom of My Fair Lady

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Chandragupta »

While we're at it, throw in a DVD player too. What fun is an aerial war unless you have Sunny Deol on your screen, scaring away the pigs using only his throat. :lol:
ajay_ijn
BRFite
Posts: 318
Joined: 30 Aug 2007 20:43

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by ajay_ijn »

Aerostats were praised as second to only AWACS in detecting low flying targets and could act a force multiplier as it could replace 30 ground based radars. But they are being procured in small number, IAF is talking about 12, probably they are costly and really big. may be if they can get smaller and cheaper ones in large numbers, all those air defence gaps can be filled.
also i read about Aerostats being proposed for border suveillance, how effective they would in our case with payloads like EO/IR or SAR.
Mihir.D
BRFite
Posts: 171
Joined: 19 Oct 2007 08:50
Location: Land Of Zero :D !

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Mihir.D »

Why can't the DRDO make aerostats based on the locally developed radars ?
Bharadwaj
BRFite
Posts: 510
Joined: 09 Oct 2006 11:09

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Bharadwaj »

Flightglobal: India details plans for indigenous medium combat aircraft


http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... craft.html
krishnan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7342
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 12:58
Location: 13° 04' N , 80° 17' E

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by krishnan »

Bharadwaj wrote:Flightglobal: India details plans for indigenous medium combat aircraft


http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... craft.html
"serpentine-shaped" air intakes
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34981
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by shiv »

k prasad wrote:

I knew about the diapers but the article also seems to imply that the Sukhois have some sort of toilets onboard ????
Not toilets, but I seem to remember that Su-30s and other aircraft provide a sort of catheter to the pilots to collect the erm... 'wastes', much like what Astronaut suits have... IIRC, this was in a report from one of the foreign exercises.... it said that the older aircrafts didnt have it and the pilots had to wear diapers.

Prasad (this is up my line of business) - for humans there are only three alternatives to a toilet/male bedpan type affair
a) pissing in your pants (adult diaper)
b) catheter
c) a condom drain (for men only) in which a condom-like thing is taped on to the penis but it has a pipe leading to a collecting bag

Catheters are painful and can lead to serious infection - so they MUST NOT be used if you want your pilots fit and healthy.

Condom drains can be uncomfortable and painful - they are like having a leash attached to your dick.

The best alternative is an adult diaper. Adult diapers today are very good and soak up humongous amounts of piss and remain comfortable.
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34981
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by shiv »

krishnan wrote:
Bharadwaj wrote:Flightglobal: India details plans for indigenous medium combat aircraft


http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... craft.html
"serpentine-shaped" air intakes
DDM. He means serpentine air intake ducts I presume.
jonboede
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 3
Joined: 11 Feb 2009 23:12
Location: Lancaster, Texas
Contact:

MiG-23 afterburner test

Post by jonboede »

We are restoring a MiG-23UB (former Bulgarian VVS serial A1037622) to flying condition in Lancaster (near Dallas), Texas.

We're expecting to perform engine tests in April.

Anybody know what the requirements are for cabling and tie-down of the aircraft? Unfortunately, we don't have a tank that we can tether the aircraft to. :-)

Also, our airport manager has asked what the heat footprint of the MiG-23 is in static test. What he's really asking is if we're going to melt his tarmac. Anybody have any experience with that?
samsher
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 50
Joined: 28 Jan 2009 05:23

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by samsher »

sum wrote:
Kartik wrote: yes, with both hot and cold water available and if the pilots want, they can take a shower as well. tauliya is kept on a hanger inside the cockpit, alongwith a bar of Cinthol saabun.
:rotfl: :rotfl:
AFAIK, Lifebaay is the 'defacto' standard among our men of honor.
'Lifeebaay hain jahaan- tandurusti hai vahaan' !!
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34981
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: MiG-23 afterburner test

Post by shiv »

jonboede wrote:We are restoring a MiG-23UB (former Bulgarian VVS serial A1037622) to flying condition in Lancaster (near Dallas), Texas.

We're expecting to perform engine tests in April.

Anybody know what the requirements are for cabling and tie-down of the aircraft? Unfortunately, we don't have a tank that we can tether the aircraft to. :-)

Also, our airport manager has asked what the heat footprint of the MiG-23 is in static test. What he's really asking is if we're going to melt his tarmac. Anybody have any experience with that?
Perhaps the right thing to do would be to Google for HAL, Nasik division and email someone there.

Just a thought.
manish
BRFite
Posts: 849
Joined: 29 Jan 2009 16:13

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by manish »

X-Posting from Def Exports thread:
manish wrote:One more Dhruv success - a single helicopter to be sold to Mauritius:
India signs pact for supply of Dhruv helicopters to Mauritius
1 Mar 2009, 1630 hrs IST, PTI
....
Mauritius will be the second country after Equador to get the multi-role, multi-mission new generation helicopter. The helicopter is likely to be handed over this month to Mauritius for use by its police, officials said here.

The state-of-the-art helicopter is being supplied under an inter-governmental MoU concluded last week. The chopper, which costs around seven million USD, is being supplied under a 100 million USD line of credit extended by India to Mauritius over three years ago, they said.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 208514.cms
narmad
BRFite
Posts: 227
Joined: 10 May 2005 09:47
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by narmad »

India has rejected an American offer to train for free half-a-dozen air force (IAF) officer-cadets for a year at the US Air Force Academy

The Pentagon had offered to take half-a-dozen IAF cadets passing out of the National Defence Academy at Khadakvasla near Pune for the year-long training at the US academy in Colorado.
Had the defence ministry accepted the offer, "the six finest officers joining service every year would have had a year-long exposure in the US, alongside USAF cadets", an IAF officer said.
But the government appeared to be worried about a generation of Indian officers being moulded by American military ideology. "Look at what has happened to the Pakistani military," the officer said. "We cannot be stooges."

The decision not to allow IAF cadets to train in the US comes at a time when the two sides are struggling to find a solution to an American legislative necessity: That India should sign an End User Verification Agreement for all military systems bought from the US.
The agreement would allow the US to carry out "on-site" physical verification of American systems in India annually to ensure that they have not been sold to a third party or compromised in other ways. India refuses to allow such inspection.

Anybody has any idea how the Trenton / Jalashwa as well as the Hercules
deals take into account the verification process ?
sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10205
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by sum »

Had the defence ministry accepted the offer, "the six finest officers joining service every year would have had a year-long exposure in the US, alongside USAF cadets", an IAF officer said.
But the government appeared to be worried about a generation of Indian officers being moulded by American military ideology. "Look at what has happened to the Pakistani military," the officer said. "We cannot be stooges."
Somehow agree with the sentiment.

Also the forces will be wary of anything offered "free" after the Adm.G fiasco....
aditp
BRFite
Posts: 448
Joined: 15 Jul 2008 07:25
Location: Autoland

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by aditp »

sum wrote:
Had the defence ministry accepted the offer, "the six finest officers joining service every year would have had a year-long exposure in the US, alongside USAF cadets", an IAF officer said.
But the government appeared to be worried about a generation of Indian officers being moulded by American military ideology. "Look at what has happened to the Pakistani military," the officer said. "We cannot be stooges."
Somehow agree with the sentiment.

Also the forces will be wary of anything offered "free" after the Adm.G fiasco....
Nothing more than a US ploy to mould future officers (brightest ones may have the best chances to rise to decision making positions) and prepare them for favouring big ticket sales to India in the future.
SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36427
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by SaiK »

these diaper posts have certainly added entertainment to many.. but thinking about reality, i guess, pilots will be asked to dump and off load before a flight.. and given mostly fluids rather solid solids.

yes.. new age diapers can keep things dry and even drier by moderate heat and vent.. and hope requirements remain within those limits, and we dont need some ejection system for ++.
Raja Bose
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19477
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 01:38

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Raja Bose »

^^^The aforementioned extra payload (and hence, weight) collected by the diapers should be automatically ejected when plane is flying over our friendly Western, Eastern and Northern neighbours. :mrgreen:
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34981
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by shiv »

SaiK wrote:these diaper posts have certainly added entertainment to many.. but thinking about reality, i guess, pilots will be asked to dump and off load before a flight.. and given mostly fluids rather solid solids.

yes.. new age diapers can keep things dry and even drier by moderate heat and vent.. and hope requirements remain within those limits, and we dont need some ejection system for ++.
SaiK - pilots don't shit in diapers. One can hold crap for 9 hours after a pre-flight offload. One cannot hold pee that long. the diapers are for the pee.
SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36427
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by SaiK »

coming back to topic.. i still keep wondering why IAF didn't choose 2052 rather they went 2032 for jaguar. perhaps mig upgrades as well. any reasons?
Post Reply