Indian IT Industry

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 10 Apr 2009 03:55

Good point Raja bose. One of the reasons for burnout among Desi Tech fraternity is this idea of being available to the office 24X7, be it via email or BB or mobile or accessing using VPN.
In my experience, if you are in office most of the time, Managers do tend to think that you are working hard while you might as well be watching p0rn and they are the ones who make others look bad.
I guess finding personal time for yourself and family as well having other creative interests is best way to prolong your techie life.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 10 Apr 2009 04:08

RBose-saar, agreement there. By 4:00PM Friday, I turn into a good Paki jernail: happily put down my weapons and flee. Unless of course there is, um, "direct personal revenue" attached to me working over the weekend

"negoshiashuns" is key.

An aside - why dont we still have a good Indian distribution of Linux (even better would be an academia driven OS from scratch) with basic stuff, so we can have them run in low power "hand me down" machines? And if there is some way to capture a disk snapshot of the running processes, we have the power-cut induced instabilities licked. switch on switch off. Same goes for DBs (used to have some low-profile Indian players called Integra, Dharma in the mid-90s but one hears them no more). Astute that he is, Kalam-sahib talked about these two areas at one point. Probably his concern for trapdoor free software.

If we dont create a Nano-like story or two in IT-vity, we will end up with Unkil laughing behind our backs like they do with the chinese in manufacturing. We pollute our personal environment for the sake of work, while unkillander colleagues do BBQ in the park during evenings. Same way Yangtze river got increasingly polluted, while Hudson river became healthier over the last two decades.

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 10 Apr 2009 05:23

hnair wrote: An aside - why dont we still have a good Indian distribution of Linux (even better would be an academia driven OS from scratch) with basic stuff, so we can have them run in low power "hand me down" machines? And if there is some way to capture a disk snapshot of the running processes, we have the power-cut induced instabilities licked. switch on switch off. Same goes for DBs (used to have some low-profile Indian players called Integra, Dharma in the mid-90s but one hears them no more). Astute that he is, Kalam-sahib talked about these two areas at one point. Probably his concern for trapdoor free software.

You have the IndLinux project but i'm not sure how widely it is used. For educational purposes i think we can still stick to open source software and improvise.

negi · Post by **negi** » 10 Apr 2009 06:01

Pah work...

given a chance I would love to follow 8-4 schedule ; however unlike resident fat cats and 3 star generals I am still a trench Kamandu

so yet to reach a stage to ensoi those privileges . Having said that I make it a point to play a game of tennis or hit the Gym whenever I get to leave the office early . Unfortunately these days my manager has been doing a la Raakitmard with my weekends .

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 10 Apr 2009 06:27

On weekdays I follow 11-8 schedule

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 10 Apr 2009 07:16

The Channel Wire
April 09, 2009
Silicon Valley Phone, Internet Outage: Sabotage?
Sabotage is suspected in the cutting of AT&T cables leased to Verizon that caused a widespread phone and Internet service outage in the Silicon Valley area.

Four or five underground fiber optic cables in San Jose were cut, causing the outage, and police are investigating the possibility that the cuts were done on purpose, according to The San Jose Mercury News and other Northern California news outlets.

The cut cables were nearly 10 feet underground but were accessible via a manhole cover.

The outage is affecting Verizon's cell and landline phone access and Internet access, with other carriers reporting intermittent service across a wide area of Santa Clara and Santa Cruz counties, the Mercury News wrote.

The cables are owned by AT&T, which leased them to Verizon.

The outage started at approximately 2:00 a.m. Pacific Time, Thursday, and service is expected to be restored by 6:00 p.m., Pacific Time.

AT&T is offering a $100,000 reward for information leading to the arrest of those who sabotaged the lines, the Mercury News wrote.

The area is home to many of the nation's top IT and high-tech manufacturers.

Calls to several of those vendors, and to several solution providers in the area, found no instances of disruption to business.

Joy Alexiou, a public information officer with Santa Clara County, said the outage was limited to a relatively small area around south San Jose and in the Morgan Hill and Gilroy areas, and that the only business impact seems to be the early closing of banks in the area.

Alexiou said that about 52,000 households using Verizon's landline service were affected, as were an unknown number of cell phone users. Furthermore, she said ATMs in the area were also shut down.

The biggest concern was the 911 emergency service, which was shut down. In response, fire and police personnel were out in greater numbers than normal to provide help, Alexiou said.

negi · Post by **negi** » 10 Apr 2009 07:18

Raja Bose wrote:On weekdays I follow 11-8 schedule

Thats even better one can finish up the GYM/SHYM and stuff ,freshen up and go to office.And traffic conditions too should be better at that time .

But then it works for you and your type of work ; mujahids in ITVITY or other areas where there is a lot of intra/inter team dependency and of course client meetings/calls working in a common time slot is perhaps more desirable.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 10 Apr 2009 07:46

hmmm....I have verizon....no problems with service....maybe just SJC area is affected?

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 10 Apr 2009 08:19

SRoy wrote: Then there of course is the case of real tech interest. How many desi techies do weekend work out of interest? Programming or even reading publications anyone? Are DSL lines only for downloading p o r n?

I usually have my weekends busy, tuning my dual boot Debian/FreeBSD laptop, working on a SIP app server in C++, and working on my sales presentations or drafting tender responses. Not all of them simultaneously of course.

Its rewarding.

Count me for one. I do it for the sake of learning something new. I must say I found it very rewarding when I found that some of my little experiments are being used in some rather large corporations and one of my articles is used at least two university courses

. But you're right, there are only a few indians that do this. Most of them treat it as a job rather than a hobby.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Apr 2009 10:05

there have been instances in my recent memory when new college hires have had to be taught the nuances of C by frustrated seniors. It was a total waste of time and these people were let in due to college rep and need to fill out seats and do "something"

today there is no guarantee a candidate from a tier-1 college is any good at all.

just like in a army bootcamp the officer candidates go through a gruelling physical obstacle course each day (which they later would not do everyday in service), similarly all these GUI IDE , learning first language as java, etc handholding is to be discouraged.

give them a text mode vt220, a good keyboard, gcc and gdb and let them write large
programs from scratch, let the pgms crash a 100 times, let them learn how to analyze cores using gdb without a fancy IDE trapping everything and presenting it in a GUI with clickable symbols....in short, drag them through the mud and those who survive and adapt they get access to easier environments.

college exams are quite easy to ace these days by stealing/internet copying/jugaad from senior papers- its upto the profs to come up with creative tasks where no amt of internet searching can help. most dont even seem to mind repeating past questions due to lack of desire to make the extra effort and shake things up.

we are growing a generation of pansies. time to slap people around and wake them up.
else chatting up the ladies, gathering for long coffee sessions, giving "tech talks" and
buttering up the management types seems to be the main activity of these next-gen
youngsters (apart from preparing for IIM/ISB). give them a tough assignment and they
find all manner of excuses why it cannot be done rather than trying 5 times atleast.

It can be done, it must be done. do it or atleast there must be no lack of trying.

negi · Post by **negi** » 10 Apr 2009 10:15

^ GD you are very cruel

yeah yeah I know you are right .

The problem is 'C' or C++ are literally taught as stand alone subjects just like mathematics in school or even in Engg (even if they call it applied

). Infact these should be used as TOOLS for facilitating research in core subjects ( signal and systems , Computer Networks ,Dig Comm etc) . But that is rarely the case the curriculum is all about knowing how to implement a 'data structure' using a 'pointer'.

And yeah wonder who was the intelligent soul who removed FORTAN from syllabus (circa 2001)

.

When CS was introduced in late 80's until the IT boom core subjects and concepts were given serious and exhaustive coverage in colleges ; these days subjects like e-commerce with stuff like xml,java and oh yes MSFT's Visual Studio are being taught

most of the folks in CS/IT will come up with some sort of a web application as their final year project

.

adityaS · Post by **adityaS** » 10 Apr 2009 10:25

Singha wrote: we are growing a generation of pansies. time to slap people around and wake them up.

The current job market will take care of that more effectively than I perhaps want it to. As for the candidates from IITs and such, I believe that the really good ones run out of India to do their PhDs, and usually don't return (nothing wrong with that, I guess).

There is a wide variance between candidates even from the top colleges, and often it is better to take someone from a less "famous" college with the right attitude and a willingness to work hard, since in the long run that is better. For what it's worth, I think what IITs really excel at is giving students opportunities to work on things that catch their interest, and the facilities for them to do good work should they choose to do so (this being where they really are a cut above other colleges). Sadly, most of them don't use their short time there well, and all they really have to show for four years of study is an irritating sense of entitlement and a false sense of superiority.

For what it's worth about teaching C/C++, I should quote Dijkstra:

"Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes."

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 10 Apr 2009 10:40

Singha wrote: give them a text mode vt220, a good keyboard, gcc and gdb and let them write large
programs from scratch, let the pgms crash a 100 times, let them learn how to analyze cores using gdb without a fancy IDE trapping everything and presenting it in a GUI with clickable symbols....in short, drag them through the mud and those who survive and adapt they get access to easier environments.

Singha saar,
I went through tough times here in Massa when my advisor asked me to use VI instead of IDE for BOTH java and C++. Learning curve is steep but is totally worth it

.... You miss auto-completion/intellisense initially but gain tremendous understanding of the language

.
JMT

adityaS · Post by **adityaS** » 10 Apr 2009 10:44

pgbhat wrote:You miss auto-completion/intellisense initially but gain tremendous understanding of the language .
JMT

vi(m) has autocompletion too, and I prefer that to IDEs - though some of the addons for VS look really useful.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 10 Apr 2009 10:47

....on top of that try writing OS code which runs on the metal of a el-cheapo MCU with between 1K-4K RAM and the entire system only has 3 LEDs for communicating with outside world and advisor refusing money to buy TFTA JTAG

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 10 Apr 2009 10:49

Actually chipzilla has had this shock test to determine if interviewee abdul really knows *nix or not. They just hand him over to a terminal with vi and ask him to write code for some problem. Doodh ka doodh, paani ka paani!

adityaS · Post by **adityaS** » 10 Apr 2009 10:54

^^ just curious, does that terminal have internet access?

if nothing else, it is a good test to see if someone can search for code on the net.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 10 Apr 2009 11:00

Raja Bose wrote:Actually chipzilla has had this shock test to determine if interviewee abdul really knows *nix or not. They just hand him over to a terminal with vi and ask him to write code for some problem. Doodh ka doodh, paani ka paani!

What if you tell them that vi(m) sucks and the real *NIX editor is ed or cat

/ I prefer emacs personally.
// Note that you can't spell eVIl without vi

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 10 Apr 2009 11:08

adityaS wrote:^^ just curious, does that terminal have internet access? if nothing else, it is a good test to see if someone can search for code on the net.

Sure, if they have installed lynx. If not, there's always the good ol' telnet command.

vina · Post by **vina** » 10 Apr 2009 11:18

Singha wrote:just like in a army bootcamp the officer candidates go through a gruelling physical obstacle course each day (which they later would not do everyday in service), similarly all these GUI IDE , learning first language as java, etc handholding is to be discouraged.

give them a text mode vt220, a good keyboard, gcc and gdb and let them write large
programs from scratch, let the pgms crash a 100 times, let them learn how to analyze cores using gdb without a fancy IDE trapping everything and presenting it in a GUI with clickable symbols....in short, drag them through the mud and those who survive and adapt they get access to easier environments.

Somehow I could never understand the Unix geek's fascination with text mode and C and the ghastly Vi editor and the ridiculous jkl; and the modes with ":" . Well, for folks who cut teeth on other machines like DEC VAX and IBM etc, Unix is wimpy and error prone garbage , and had just too much fancy schmanzy names for stuff that basically sucked big time.
,
And why should modern present day kids go back to fighting with sword when they have an assault rifle which sprays 40000000000 bullets a minute and also has an integrated laser pointer sight, which can hit bulls eye at 600 yards in a single shot sniper mode ?. Different age, different weapons, different styles!.

Linux rocks, because of the GUI interface, Windows (XP onwards) is pretty decent as well. Apple Rocks. You can do all that you do with Unix and much faster, more productively and with very little learning curve. Yeah, the point is the Abdul should know what he/she should be doing. That is all. For that you really dont need to know *nix.

Analyzing core dumps and display statements to debug etc are so passe'. And if anybody gives a unix test to me, the first thing I would do is type pico to edit and pine for e-mail, if not for anything else, to rid myself of the ghastly jkl; and the ":" modes and rubbish. After all, come on, if you justify Emacs and Vi use because of regular expressions, syntax checking etc, you might as well use a TFTA IDE like Eclipse or Visual series of developer tools from Mickey Soft and get the massive functionality and productivity increase!

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 10 Apr 2009 11:22

Raja Bose wrote:....on top of that try writing OS code which runs on the metal of a el-cheapo MCU with between 1K-4K RAM and the entire system only has 3 LEDs for communicating with outside world and advisor refusing money to buy TFTA JTAG

we still have a linux box running redhat since 1999. we switch it on and off like a TV set

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 10 Apr 2009 11:23

What if you tell them that vi(m) sucks and the real *NIX editor is ed or cat

Wanting the easy way out, eh? "Real men" use only echo and redirect. Get it perfect the first time around.

adityaS · Post by **adityaS** » 10 Apr 2009 11:47

@merlin: real men use bits from /dev/random to write programs

vina wrote: And why should modern present day kids go back to fighting with sword when they have an assault rifle which sprays 40000000000 bullets a minute and also has an integrated laser pointer sight, which can hit bulls eye at 600 yards in a single shot sniper mode ?. Different age, different weapons, different styles!.

To follow up on your analogy, since soldiers do not march in step and in formation when going to battle, why do they parade? It's good training, and it gives a deeper understanding of what the written code translates to, and what it actually does.

Analyzing core dumps and display statements to debug etc are so passe'. And if anybody gives a unix test to me, the first thing I would do is type pico to edit and pine for e-mail, if not for anything else, to rid myself of the ghastly jkl; and the ":" modes and rubbish. After all, come on, if you justify Emacs and Vi use because of regular expressions, syntax checking etc, you might as well use a TFTA IDE like Eclipse or Visual series of developer tools from Mickey Soft and get the massive functionality and productivity increase!

Agreed. But when you give a customer something that works on his confidential data, the only thing he is willing to give you will be that core dump/display statement. What would you do then? (This is a real example, by the way) *nix are still the only sane option if you work on large datasets, and depending on what language is used, emacs/vi then are really the "least worst" options - and unless you're on a really old unix, things are hopefully a lot better than hjkl: .

eclipse is bad

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 10 Apr 2009 11:50

vina wrote:
Singha wrote:just like in a army bootcamp the officer candidates go through a gruelling physical obstacle course each day (which they later would not do everyday in service), similarly all these GUI IDE , learning first language as java, etc handholding is to be discouraged.
Somehow I could never understand the Unix geek's fascination with text mode and C and the ghastly Vi editor and the ridiculous jkl; and the modes with ":" . Well, for folks who cut teeth on other machines like DEC VAX and IBM etc, Unix is wimpy and error prone garbage , and had just too much fancy schmanzy names for stuff that basically sucked big time.

Vina, he says clearly he dont expect people to use the ghastly editors everyday. Just to get a feel of the raw atmosphere as a newbie. It is like a woodworker/carver/sculptor learning to use chisel. s/he can graduate to using routers and wood CNCs for clean lines. But you get the feel of raw wood through your hands by starting off with a chisel. What Singha is saying is nowadays a lot of people use tools like jack-hammers to carve a groove in the wood. One gets a groove, but that is about it. If you started off under some Pei-mei or Musashi, you tend to weep on seeing some of the present newbie work. And then there are people who use an ordinary chisel with the speed of a jack hammer and the precision of a fine router....

Steve Jobs is sneezed upon a lot around here because of the antics of his faithfools (rightly so). But that is one guy who makes the best chisels and chairs - minimalistic and works just fine. A yindoo frugality to his designs. A far cry from dancing status bars and zillion buttons of later versions of MS Office, that would make only an AR Rehman happy.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 10 Apr 2009 11:59

Sriman wrote: You have the IndLinux project but i'm not sure how widely it is used. For educational purposes i think we can still stick to open source software and improvise.

Sriman, not just localization effort, I am talking about a distribution with a pre-packaged "top 10 apps ordinary Indians would love": Voice recognition for writing emails for daadis to simple apps for sharing photos with kids. All in a desktop with one toolbar and nothing else. Minimal keyboard operation.

Educational purpose (as in learning a system/framework) is not the only reason for us having an Indian academia driven basic OS, media, data storage, comms frameworks - up and coming people can apprentice under senior people who reflected and build such things. A big advantage that the best massaland schools have, IMO.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 10 Apr 2009 12:03

pgbhat wrote: we still have a linux box running redhat since 1999. we switch it on and off like a TV set

Linux box?!!!

...he sez Linux Box?!!@$%&

Which *nix/nux "bloatware" OS can run on SDRE 4K of 8Mhz MCU

Unix babes are wimps...they need a debugger and video display screen to debug

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 10 Apr 2009 12:16

Raja Bose wrote:
pgbhat wrote: we still have a linux box running redhat since 1999. we switch it on and off like a TV set
Linux box?!!! ...he sez Linux Box?!!@$%& Which *nix/nux "bloatware" OS can run on SDRE 4K of 8Mhz MCU

Unix babes are wimps...they need a debugger and video display screen to debug

adityaS · Post by **adityaS** » 10 Apr 2009 12:20

^^ Okay, I deserved that one

If you can reveal it, I'd be interested in knowing what are you building with the device, and the reasons to choose that particular microcontroller. 4k seems about right to put in a basic forth implementation to make writing things on top of it easier, but there are reasonably cheap fpga boards with ARM cores on them, and they might have saved you effort (unless, of course, the aim is to actually write an OS for that.)

vina · Post by **vina** » 10 Apr 2009 12:21

adityaS wrote:Agreed. But when you give a customer something that works on his confidential data, the only thing he is willing to give you will be that core dump/display statement. What would you do then? (This is a real example, by the way) *nix are still the only sane option if you work on large datasets, and depending on what language is used, emacs/vi then are really the "least worst" options - and unless you're on a really old unix, things are hopefully a lot better than hjkl: .

eclipse is bad

Gosh, it sucks to be stuck in an empty office on a long weekend.. Hey, but I get time to blog!

.

*nix are still the only sane option if you work on large datasets, and depending on what language is used, emacs/vi then are really the "least worst" options - and unless you're on a really old unix, things are hopefully a lot better than hjkl:

Man.. You guys have been brainwashed by all the database Oracle dudes.. Indexed files have existed forever in major platforms like IBM and DEC. Lets take a bet. You take the fastest TFTA Oracle database today on humongous hardware, tuned to perfection like a Stradivarius , and I will face it off with a hardware of far lower spec and still whip it hands down in performance (how?.. hint, I will use indexed files and direct access, without all the Oracle overheads!). Ok. Ok. Now you will come up with management, concurrency , duplication, yada yada and say that you cant work with files (indexed or otherwise) and you actually need a DBMS. Ok, I still take an old hierarchical database or a network database from IBM or the old HP and can still whip a TFTA relational database like Oracle, big time in raw performance. You basically traded performance for ease of use and programmer productivity when you moved from Indexed Files to a DBMS (Hierarchical/ Network) to a Relational DBMS. So why do you grudge the noob kids the same thing with programming tools and user interfaces ?.

To take your analogy further, I would suggest that instead of letting any kid touch an Relational DBMS, they should first learn how to program and populate indexed files and then a hierarchical dbms and then relational.. All such a waste of time. Just because an old fuddy duddy like me has once upon a time (long long long ago) actually used indexed files, doesn't really mean anything today.

Oh, well, even with Relational Databases, the most solid and bullet proof relational databases continue to be DB2 on Mainframe (which is really not multi threaded like Oracle and DB2 on Unix and other wimps, but actually spawns full process in a Mainframe) or the old RDB on VAX, another bullet proof one. No Oracle like Wimpy crashes saar , just because one process crashes saar!. Also even today from what I hear from the IT/Vity chaps around, the largest commercial databases tend to be NCR /Terradata. Dont know which platform it is, but sounds proprietary.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 10 Apr 2009 12:28

adityaS wrote:^^ Okay, I deserved that one

If you can reveal it, I'd be interested in knowing what are you building with the device, and the reasons to choose that particular microcontroller. 4k seems about right to put in a basic forth implementation to make writing things on top of it easier, but there are reasonably cheap fpga boards with ARM cores on them, and they might have saved you effort (unless, of course, the aim is to actually write an OS for that.)

ARM cores??!!@$% Next thing you will suggest is that I dump my '96 Honda Civic and buy a 2009 Acura!

Re. the system, if you look inside Walmart cold chain trailers you will find 'em. These SDRE embedded devices allow sensors to become services in a SOA, forming the link between SDRE dhoti-clad hardware and TFTA suited-booted ISB/IIM business processes

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 10 Apr 2009 12:28

Talking of time management, this mujahid recently got promoted from being a trench Kammando to a lashkar commander (Manager). While as a foot soldier I could manage my time and complete my assignments (I'm non-IT-Vity type...and consulting no less [:D]) as I wish and try new methodologies....with this promotion, have to ensure that team members complete the whole thing on time and have to review things before they are sent out to clients. Add to this is the fact that due to on going predator strikes, there has been cap on team strength; so have to get into assignment execution as well. The biggest problem is that assignments (with a normal 4 week completion cycle) come for review one or two days prior to submission; and god forbid if there is screw up with methodologies/assessment/recommendations, the whole damn thing has to be rectified in 48 hours and one ends up burning the mid night oil. As some one pointed out above, there is case of sub-standard resources getting recruited with out proper assessment in my case also. These people are first to get laid off....few who are left screw your happiness royally....you can't trust them to complete the assignments independently....you have to constantly watch over them and practically end up doing the whole thing yourself....it can be very frustrating at times.. and when shit hits the fan...it all falls on your head.....

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 10 Apr 2009 12:32

^^^ Welcome to Management

adityaS · Post by **adityaS** » 10 Apr 2009 12:33

vina wrote: Gosh, it sucks to be stuck in an empty office on a long weekend.. Hey, but I get time to blog! .

likewise

Man.. You guys have been brainwashed by all the database Oracle dudes.. Indexed files have existed forever in major platforms like IBM and DEC. Lets take a bet. You take the fastest TFTA Oracle database today on humongous hardware, tuned to perfection like a Stradivarius , and I will face it off with a hardware of far lower spec and still whip it hands down in performance (how?.. hint, I will use indexed files and direct access, without all the Oracle overheads!). Ok. Ok. Now you will come up with management, concurrency , duplication, yada yada and say that you cant work with files (indexed or otherwise) and you actually need a DBMS. Ok, I still take an old hierarchical database or a network database from IBM or the old HP and can still whip a TFTA relational database like Oracle, big time in raw performance. You basically traded performance for ease of use and programmer productivity when you moved from Indexed Files to a DBMS (Hierarchical/ Network) to a Relational DBMS. So why do you grudge the noob kids the same thing with programming tools and user interfaces ?.

Saar, I am a lowly C programmer - no Oracle for me. No relational DB, either

. My datasets are (sort of) large text files. In fact, I don't grudge anyone programming tools/UIs - being a heavy user of IBM/Rationals purify, the tools serve a valuable purpose. It's just that for what I do, there is a lot of history behind the choice of tools and environment, (and for various reasons, that won't change).

To take your analogy further, I would suggest that instead of letting any kid touch an Relational DBMS, they should first learn how to program and populate indexed files and then a hierarchical dbms and then relational.. All such a waste of time. Just because an old fuddy duddy like me has once upon a time (long long long ago) actually used indexed files, doesn't really mean anything today.

If the kids main work is to use the Relations DBMS, then I agree with you. If he's improving Oracle/DB2/whatever, then I think I would prefer someone who knows how to program, and knows what he is doing

@Raja Bose:Thanks, that's really interesting - it explains the cost pressures.

vina · Post by **vina** » 10 Apr 2009 12:40

Raja Bose wrote:Re. the system, if you look inside Walmart cold chain trailers you will find 'em. These SDRE embedded devices allow sensors to become services in a SOA,

Rat Food Instant Diet sensor networks ?

vina · Post by **vina** » 10 Apr 2009 12:42

adityaS wrote:If the kids main work is to use the Relations DBMS, then I agree with you. If he's improving Oracle/DB2/whatever, then I think I would prefer someone who knows how to program, and knows what he is doing

Yawn.. Most kids "imbrooving" Oracle/DB2 ityadi will know that at the end of the day , TFTA Oracl/DB2 etc, still use the underlying indexed files to store data physically and access them saar!

. Like the esteemed Shri Shri Rahul Mehta Maharaj Ji says, AWMTA!. The more things seem to change, the more they remain same!

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 10 Apr 2009 12:44

Raja Bose wrote: ARM cores??!!@$% Next thing you will suggest is that I dump my '96 Honda Civic and buy a 2009 Acura!

Completely agree with you saar. I once wrote code for one of these babies for a custom controller. There's a lot of beauty in small packages as well.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 10 Apr 2009 12:45

Raja Bose wrote:^^^ Welcome to Management

Yup.....i know....and add to it there is revenue pressure as well......got revenue targets to meet....i did not know wether to laugh or cry for having got promoted during these times..my sector has been worst hit in the economic downturn (real estate)....

........Business Development+Team Management+Execution........

.........

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Apr 2009 12:47

there is a reason why a new entrant to samurai school gets a wooden sword and not a finely honed katana or wazikashi. after years and years of ruthless practice he might become worthy of being passed a retiring master's personal sword.

A man must 'find himself' and be in balance with the Force before graduating to such things.

in the days of yore college campuses had no distractions - no internet, next to no girls (and those that existed were not good), no money, no pool parlors nearby, no bakeries/juice junctions to 'treat' girls to, a moth eaten
movie hall maybe, bad food, no ethernet in rooms => no p0rn on tap, no torrents, CC shut down at 8pm in most colleges .....

the mind was focussed. the mind was free of conflict. every dream, every move was focussed on you, the enemy and your sword. practice and practice even in your dreams until your movements become fluid like a jaguar in the night, every action becomes a reaction, you think through the battle before unsheathing your weapon.

a way of life has vanished. to be replaced by weak successors who compromise on everything.

SRoy · Post by **SRoy** » 10 Apr 2009 12:50

Raja Bose wrote: SRoy,
Nothing personal against you but what you mention above re. working on weekends is not necessarily the best thing. I prefer to finish all my work including learning (which actually is a bigger component of work for me since I work in a research lab) during the weekdays. As much as possible (currently > 99%), I keep my weekends for other personal interests. Somehow I do not agree that one has to be a techie 24/7 in order to succeed. OTOH I believe if one has other interests outside work, that leads to more productivity since it stimulates creativity and innovation. There has to be a life outside work. The other day I had a short argument with moi GHQ when I told her that one must have an identity outside work. You have to define your work not vice versa. Typically for desis we dont see this. If you ask someone to describe him/herself...one of the 1st things they will gambol about is about their work! I still go by my advisor's 1st warning to me when I had started my hakimiyat under him: "I dont want to see you working 12 hours a day and coming to the lab on weekends. If I see that, I will get the impression that you are either dumb or inefficient and will kick you out!" Too often people who work late hours are the one with time management issues and the rest seem to be workaholics (not healthy at all!, I may be wrong).

Just imagine, once you reach old age and retire...when you look back, do you want to remember the hours you spent cooped up in front of a computer, or do you want to have some memories other than work. In the end its a personal choice.

Bose babu,

I'm not talking about office work to be clear. Nobody asks me to work on Saturday afternoons. Other way round none of my bosses have suceeded in making me stay beyond 5:30 in the evening on workdays. That's clear.

BTW, gist of what I said is as below.

ArmenT wrote:Count me for one. I do it for the sake of learning something new. I must say I found it very rewarding when I found that some of my little experiments are being used in some rather large corporations and one of my articles is used at least two university courses . But you're right, there are only a few indians that do this. Most of them treat it as a job rather than a hobby.

..

The point is my (most people will agree here) my org pays me do stuff as the customer demands, they don't care to address anybodies interests or creative urges. And if you have interests you are on your own.

There is a reason we are called "IT coolies" and little or no Indian names show if you start scanning open source projects. It has do with the reasoning that you have putv forward.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 10 Apr 2009 12:52

vina wrote: Man.. You guys have been brainwashed by all the database Oracle dudes.. Indexed files have existed forever in major platforms like IBM and DEC. Lets take a bet. You take the fastest TFTA Oracle database today on humongous hardware, tuned to perfection like a Stradivarius , and I will face it off with a hardware of far lower spec and still whip it hands down in performance (how?.. hint, I will use indexed files and direct access, without all the Oracle overheads!). Ok. Ok. Now you will come up with management, concurrency , duplication, yada yada and say that you cant work with files (indexed or otherwise) and you actually need a DBMS. Ok, I still take an old hierarchical database or a network database from IBM or the old HP and can still whip a TFTA relational database like Oracle, big time in raw performance. You basically traded performance for ease of use and programmer productivity when you moved from Indexed Files to a DBMS (Hierarchical/ Network) to a Relational DBMS. So why do you grudge the noob kids the same thing with programming tools and user interfaces ?.

Actually, on Sequent hardware running Dynix, you could configure oracle to bypass the OS and directly access the hardware, which did wonders for performance. Incidentally, I worked on a recent project where oracle wasn't fast enough for us -- we needed some extremely fast query responses for lots of data. Solution: Daemon with in-memory tree structures and a query parser and voila!