Bharat Rakshak

Are these ATV names chosen already?

Wow.

I would have suggested an INS Kalki for our indiangenious SSBN.

ATV launch



Wasn't the ATV being built in Vizag?



That makes nearly 36 missiles if they are all nuclear tipped then what kinda active nuclear warhead numbers are we looking at?

Also what is the usually projected warhead number(in % vis-a-vis another country) for a nation to count as 'Credible deterrent'

Well unless there are two ATVs being built simultaneously ?!! ... doesn't look like typical Indian behavior does it ..

http://www.domain-b.com/defence/general ... _navy.html

Russian nuke attack sub to join Indian Navy by year-end news

The Russian Schucka-B class Nerpa (NATO: Akula II) nuclear attack submarine, damaged in an accident during sea trials last year, will be commissioned by the Russian Navy in the autumn and subsequently leased to the Indian Navy, Russian navy sources said Tuesday. New sea trials will be conducted on the repaired submarine on 15-20 June by the shipyard.

On 8 November last year, the Nerpa was undergoing sea trials in the Sea of Japan when its on-board fire safety system went off releasing deadly Freon gas into the sleeping quarters. Three submariners and 17 shipyard workers, from a total complement of 208 people onboard, at the time were killed.

"All the technical and organisational measures on the sub have been completed. Only pre-delivery trials by the shipyard and pre-commissioning state trials are ahead of us, which will be completed this summer (June-August). After which the submarine will be commissioned by the Russian Navy," naval sources were quoted as saying.

Last month, shipyard sources had indicated that repairs onboard the Nerpa were almost complete and that the 12,000 ton underwater behemoth would head for sea trials in June.

The yard's operations had been hamstrung by a lack of finances, but a recent visit by Russian prime minister Vladimir Putin, who released $300 million to the shipyard with orders to deliver the submarine to India by the end of this year, resolved the issue.

According to reports, the Nerpa will go on a 10-year lease to the Indian Navy, for which Russia would be paid an annual fee of $50 million. At the end of the lease period the Indian Navy could either renew the lease or buy the submarine outright or the submarine could revert back to Russia.

It is likely that Nerpa will take on the name of a predecessor, INS Chakra, when it begins to fly the flag of the Indian Navy. The INS Chakra was a Charlie-class submarine, which was also leased out to the Indian Navy a couple of decades back

Look at the irony.... we have a SSN that weighs 12000 tons and a SSBN that weighs just about half....

isn't ssn's main role to find and destroy rivals ssbn's ??
since its basically a "shock trooper" kind of philosophy it freely is expected to jump into the thick of submarine battles .... hence the massive redundancy built-in for longer survivability .... hence the larger size.

isn't ssbn's role to stay hidden and always be ready to launch CM/BM(s) within short notice ??
since its job is to evade combat and to hide .... its requirements are less imposing than an ssn's....

what are the strategic design goals for each class. Guru's feel free to educate us lesser mortals

Warhead numbers will vary wildly especially if the missiles are MIRVed.

Drevin

The irony is if we take the US case the Ohio is a 16000 ton monster while the US main attack (SSN) Los Angeles is around 6000 tons.For Russia the Typhoon is a monster at 22000 tons and their main SSN akula is 12000 ton.

Now is not our case a inverse of these....

VSudhir

I am not talking about MIRV ed missile , my question is if we are planning 6 ATV's and if they are to have MIRV or 36 Sagarikas then are we talking about 36*6 ready to launch active nuclear warheads. That is 216 warheads in itself, I am wondering how big is our nuclear armoury....

may be we are not as innocent as we seem to be.....

Is it confirmed that the "indian" definition of ssbn conforms with the american/russian ones. sivavijay you are right. I was just being indulgent I guess speculaton is strictly avoided on br.

Last heard ( from BR chaiwalls) was that the hull was made at Hazira and floated down to Vizag for assembly with a planned second ATV to be made completely at Hazira....

Not sure if the quoted statement is DDM or an indication of the second ATV also being built..

aah ! I love those names ! sultry sirens luring their enemies to their doom..

36 sagarikas . I don't think thats possible for 6000 tonne sub. The Russian Typhoon class SUB could carry only 20 missiles. We should be happy if our ATV can carry even 6 sagarikas/Agni IIISL.

I think the first sub will carry 4 A-3SL or 12 sagarika. May the later versions are big ones with 12 A-3SL. I dont see the later ones carrying sagarikas.

I think DDM has the number of missile tubes confused. There are supposed to be 4nos 2.4 m dia launch tubes each will deploy a tri launcher equipped with a .74 m dia sagarika missile. = 12 missiles in the ATV.

Later this can be replaced with 4 nos Agni 3 SL (Maybe each with 3 MIRVs so that the number of warheads deployed remains the same)

The hull is built in sections at the L&T plant in Hazira, then shipped on barges to Vizag. The second ATV was supposed to be on the designing board - supposed to be 10000 tons +.

You are quite right that a 6000 tonne sub may not be able carry 36 six ton missilles. But then we don't know the weight of ATV yet.

ATV - 104m long with 15m beam (as claimed by Wiki) - Volume 9184 m3
Virginia class - 115m long with 10.4m beam (submerged displacement 7800 tons) - Volume 4882m3
Ohio class - 171m long with 13m beam (submerged displacement 18,750 tons) - Volume 11342m3

Edited: Actually now that I look at it again submerged displacement numbers don't seem to make sense. Sea water has density of about 1027kg/m3. Therefore a 4882m3 volume can only displace about 4882 ton of water. Don't know to make sense of volume with quoted submerged displacement.

^^^ Yes I even had the same info ..if I remember correct ..I read from India Today earlier.
So right now it will have 12 Sagarikas (and later 4 A-3SL with 3-4 MIRVs on each ) on the first ATV.
But later ones will be bigger ones and may have more SLBMs.

^^^ Good reserch ..going by the Volume of the Subs (which should be dircetly propotional to the displacement.....Our Baby Boomer ATV should be around 9-10 000 tons ..Gurus any idea ?
If this is true, then our beloved Baby Boomer does not looks like a "Baby"

PER the article: the 3 Sagarikas per tube ar supposed to be 0.75m dia, while the Agni is 2 m dia!! For what ever that is worth. The Sagarika should have limited range compared to theAgni I would imagine.

the Akulla II is a SSGN. (Nuclear Guided Missle Sub). No Ballistic Missles. Only Cruise Missles. Somebody correct me if i am wrong.

http://www.eenadu.net/story.asp?qry1=10&reccount=27

The gist of the news is that, Russia is now planning to induct the the nuke sub into Russian navy before giving it to INDIA(it does not mention for how long) as per the news release by novosti news agency.

nothing new, that was always the plan. they are leasing it, not selling it.

Exactly. The lease is for 10 years with an option to buy later (which the Navy will most likely not do)

Its torpedo tubes can fire tube launched missiles (IN has Klub and Exocet part of scorpene deal).

Not to mention SLCM. We dont have any now, but hopefully someday not too far in the future, we will have land and sub-based Nirbhay

If we do have a SSBN then what would be it's operational area? will it be patrolling only in the IOR(since we are so passionate and content with IOR alone), or will it be a global patrol.
My guess is a IOC patrol will not suffice , for one our Northern neighbour is one step ahead and has set up listening posts and bases all around IOR(even now he would have scrambled assets to collect data on ATV as it is launched) just to keep tag on our assets so that he need not search if he decides to shoot. The best thing is to go around Indonesia, OZ and then enter the pacific and then lie silently in waiting in the Dragon's backyard.... Maybe I watch too much Tom Clancy

According to wikipedia we have 3 ATV submarines in construction......

Let this be true..... (fingers crossed)

This august 15th thingy seems too suspicious to be the actual first launch, doesn't it!!





Excellent Names.... but doesn't Meenakshi mean "she who is bestowed with eyes shaped like a fish"????

Another nice name i can think of for the ATV is INS Markandeya, "The Immortal one"... but pseudosecularists may object.

Exactly. And that is why its called a SSGN. It cannot fire Ballistic Missiles. Only SSM/Cruise Missiles.

We can always name the nuclear subs with some of our illustrious fore fathers

My suggestion

INS MOHANDAS KARAMCHAND GANDHI

INS LAL BAHADUR SHASTRI

INS SUBHAS CHANDRA BOSE

INS LOKMANYA TILAK

INS INDIRA GANDHI

Don't think it's a very bright idea naming a Nuke sub after Gandhi ji.

My List would be.

INS ASHOKA

INS SHIVAJI

INS SAMUDRAGUPTA

INS RANAPRATAP

INS INDIRA

INS Tipu , would be my choice.

Yes, for all we know, she might just refuse to fire.

better not drag in IG into this or we will soon see INS Laloo Prasad yadav.
better make it a rule/convention not to name after people who stood in elections.

anyway, IN does not name ships after people who lived in recent history.
exceptions have been made for Netaji (INS Netaji Subhash, base at kolkata) and IIRC there was a ship named after Adm AK Chatterjee, also IN's first Indian full admiral, if memory serves right.

also, ships of the same class should have some commonality in their names. IN too follows this practice e.g rajput class, talwar class all have ships that have a common thread among their names.


Coming to historical names I would prefer if some of the lesser known heroes are given a spot, lachit borfukan, birsa munda.

and of course the stalwarts of the armed revolution, Bhagat Singh, Surya Sen, Jatin Das etc.

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samudragupta will most likely than not be the next IAC. Also, how can people forget Chandragupta Maurya ??

Let the subs come first,and let the babus name them at least if that brings some hurry hormones in them
btw
first ATV should be called INS Mangal Pandey, this inspires more than politicians

naming a ship is a much more serious affair than you say, or at least it ought to. and babus don't name ships.

so what is the criteria behind naming a SHIP on a politician?

Let us consider a nuclear submarine / nuclear warhead as a Weapon of Peace, nor a weapon of war. And Gandhi stood for peace and Ahimsa. If we have powerful weapons which we never have to use, that is the best use !!!!

An old PT teacher would often tell us that legs are better weapons in a fight than hands, just run away !!

mind stating that in english ?
while you are at it kindly also let me know which IN ships are named after politicians. (if that's what you meant)

Naming process in a nutshell,

NHQ send out a signal to all fleet unit and establishments requesting names. Officers and Sailors send their choices that is assessed by NHQ. The shortlist is again sent out for comments. Thereafter a final name is selected.

For example, I recollect a lot of exchanges regarding naming INS Jalashwa. It was named after the hippopotamus reflecting its amphibious nature, however many officers remarked that the desi name for hippopotamus is Jal-hasti, not Jal-ashwa.

So it is a partly democratic process.

Politicians, once in a blue moon, do get a chance to name units -

IN air stations are named after birds - Hansa, Garuda, Shikra. Mayura was selected as the name for Andamans air base - given that peacocks hunt snakes. Indira Gandhi was invited to commission the base (or lay the foundation stone - cant remember). On learning the name, she wrote back that the peacock is a flightless bird that struts its feathers while mating and she will not commission a fighting base named after such a vain creature. Hence a new name was selected - INS Utkrosh

If memory serves right, ABV was quite keen but didnt get any chances other than Tejas. Or was Vikramaditya his idea?