Bharat Rakshak

They have not figured it out yet

They are Pakis thats our only hope!

^^^
Jai Ho and all that to unkil.

I for one will be very happy to see the bad taliban (Bad from unkil's POV onlee) do some damage to unkil's gameplan in fak-ap region. It is proved beyond any doubt that the good taliban (as per unkil) is being protected and occasionally let loose on the SDREs to keep unkil's great game alive in the region. Lets be very clear about this, Unkil is not in the camp of friendlies as far as India's fight against terror is concerned. It is part of the problem.

GOI cant even take TSP to task for its crimes in broad day light so any action (chankian ofcourse) against unkil will happen only in BR wet dreams as usual.

Just in...IED Mubarak, hits ordinance depot lots of fireworks guaranteed..

http://www.geo.tv/6-12-2009/44020.htm

Geo TV reports

Jamia Naeemia principal Dr Sarfraz Naeemi was martyred ( a terrorist killing terrorist is not martyrdom, it is group clash) and several others injured in a suicide blast at Jamia Naeemia situated in Garhi Shahu area of Lahore, Geo News reported Friday.

The blast was so powerful that the outer walls of the Jamia Naeemia Masjid collapsed. The nearby buildings were harmed in the blast. The blast occurred when a lot of people were present in the mosque.

The personnel of the security forces cordoned off the area and started the relief operation.

The injured are being rushed to the Meo Hospital. Emergency has been declared in the hospitals of the Lahore.

The security forces are searching the building on the apprehension of another bmb.

There are reports that the blast was suicide attack; however, it was not confirmed by the government officials.

Asking again

^^
One possibility is that unkil has started believing its own propaganda about the keeda. Bush admin though messed up had some idea where it was going if not about what it was doing. But Obama has lost it completely. Obama admin has taken a leaf out of MMS' book of chankian tactics. Obama throwing money at TSP is the equivalent of MMS doing nothing about TSP, buying time while trying to get a grip on what is going on.

Bringing back the issue of Kashmir into fak-ap problem is only reverting back to tried and failed democrat policy from a decade ago. India is in a much better position now and unless GOI GUBOes nothing will come off this move. Obama also is aware of this but words are cheap and it also buys them a lot of time for further inaction, exactly what he is looking for. JMT

If taliban continues to blast so many mosques the day wont be far when country of islam purest of pure will have shoratge of mosques and they will have to beg arab frnds & unkil aid to build them......it may be islamist country without mosques...........

Possible but it is clear that the various snake childs would rather not fight amongst themselves unless there was an external compulsion working to make that happen. Clearly that compulsion is being provided by the US, but why exactly.

Most of the angst that US of A had after 9/11 has been adressed by the fake victories in Afganistan and the American thirst for blood has been more than quenched by copious blood letting in Iraq. US of A feels by and large redeemed for its hurt, its pride is assuaged and the animal hunger satisfied. All US has to do now in the Af-Pak reason is to keep the pretence of democrary via Karazai and let the situation be, which is all it appears to be doing.

Is there mere presence of US in Afganistan and its proxy there enough khujli to the Talibs to go fighting all and sundry? And surely knows that the fighting in Pakistan is actually weakening its biggest assets?

Surely the people involved have enough real politic, balls and foresight to see whats happening --- why are they precipitating this then?

----

Or is something else the matter?

Sanku - to your question, once you start having a good sleep over sending others to kill unarmed , men , women and children - you start trying to setlle every argument with guns and bombs. You can't arm every abdul in society and hope that they use discretion when using thier firepower. Plus after idorcinating a whole generation about how right it is to kill kafirs including Indian muslims in Bomb blasts, the jihadis start to think it is thier duty to kill evryone and anyone whom they see as a cause for thier problems.

IED Mubarak in Lawhore.

Wanted ! $ 1bn more in aids,
'yeh pyaas hai bari'

Taliban is silencing the moderate mullahs pretty fast indeed. That day is not far when they will remain as the sole interpreters of Islam in TSP. Now who could benefit from that? The fingers are pointing towards KSA.

No, that's fine at a psychological level but does not answer my question.

Clearly there is not too much to chose between different stake holder in TSP (I count ISI and Talibs as equal stakeholders amongst others), a very minor difference. Why would such "ek he thali ke chaate baate" fight? For one up manship? Sure -- but that is not enough reason when they can easily combine and spread the glorious flag of Islam else where, and if it was simple one up man ship of the top dog fight TSPA would have settled it by now by use of force combined with letting the Jihadi do what they wanted in India.

Why are they FIGHTING each other? Whats making them.

Sanku ji,

It is simply a proxy war between USA and Al Qaida, and TSPA, the Islamic Whore, is caught in between the fronts, trying to keep Allah Tallah happy by doing namaz between her business hours.

I am not entirely convinced they are fighting each other. Yes recently they have started targeting each other a bit more seriously. Just look at the amount of money Obama is coughing up for TSP. The jernails are being paid through the nose to move their a$$, in addition to that cashmere has been rekindled. The US foreign policy has shifted decisively in favour of TSP and there must be more promises that we are unaware of for sure. Unkil and TSP both pursue a policy of immediate goals in the region and unkil seems to have somehow convinced TSPA to take action on their behalf. But US interests are not harmed in any way if ISI-TSPA vs Taliban ends up in the destruction of both players or that of TSP itself. All are expendable. So there is no conflict of interest for unkil here.

But TSP will pay the price for it. The mosque bombings by Taliban are only the beginning. All other reactions predicted by BR like deeni abdul soldier abandoning TSPA for taliban and aam abdul siding with the purer believer all will happen pretty soon.

PS: And in case you didnt notice, the war on terror in the region has shifted from Afghanistan to TSP. NATO forces are only policing now while all the dying and killing is done by TSPians. Unkil has effectively achieved his goals. NATO can packup and leave tomorrow if they want. The battle ground has moved to TSP for good.

Share of uncle aid, loot not being distributed properly

Multiple things...
(1) Money (from drugs, stolen American equipment, marble, gemstones, kidnappings, extortion, etc)... everybody wants to get his/her fattest plausible cut
(2) "Clan-ism"... My clan yay... Your clan boo
(3) Corporatisation... Don't know if many have noticed... there is a certain institutionalisation of the jihad factory... operations are done, certificates are given, meals provided... as in the terror organizations are becoming corporates... wouldn't be surprised if a stock exchange for these organisation comes up pretty soon
(4) The high birth rates in Pakistan ensure that there is no dearth of pissed-off young people with high levels of testesterone... this reduces the "labor costs" and operational costs... thus facilitating more number of terror outlets... this leads to fractures and consequent infighting that we are seeing today

In short... Pakistan is in a state of behind-the-scenes civil war. Slowly, it is coming out in the open. In my view... nobody is calling the shots in Pakistan's jihad factory. Both the ISI and PA know their limitations and are playing clan vs clan as much as they can. This in no way implies that the ISI/PA have lost control over the groups that are their stooges... it is just that the ISI/PA are not the biggest enforcers in town.

The fun starts when this infighting/civil war makes its way into the PA. Some retired PA officers have already seen the light and joined the business.


Just my two bits...

News flash.2 bombs hit a madrasa in Lahore and a mosque in Nowshera.Many killed and injured.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/ju ... omb-blasts

Ye Dil Maange More

@Dilbu, Aditya_V, Vishal_Bhatia etc...

Interesting range of opinions, right from they are fighting because of loot to are they really fighting? Doesnt it really bring out my point? We have opinions yet we dont know WHY they are really fighting, a lot of folks say the fight is a sham a staged show to keep uncle Sam happy, and while some idea of what are the mechanics that feed the war are understood, what is clearly not understood the real contours of war.

Remember the war started only recently after Ameri Khans announced their latest "no strings attached" package to the TSP. TSP and TSPA was quite happy passing bills accepting Sharia in Swat and claiming all was well. This peace deal itself came after a rather half hearted fight which TSP got into in FATA area with its constabulary troops etc.

Also remember that none of this was happening under martial rule (almost neglible) the fun started with Mushy taking one step back and saving his head from the sun roof lever which got Beeb who was till then standing with Mushy out in front thinking that Mushy is with her.

The war is Pakistan is not "bizness as usual", as the good IA Col wrote to Kiyani, TSPA in the past shown no compuction about successfuly putting down internal dissent by butchering a whole lot of Muslims and Pakistanis when needed. (BeeDee was saved by India) so why is it unsuccessful now.

----

All this leads me to what I think is the studied wisdom of BRF -- the war is happening in one way or the other because of some American motivation -- otherwise what stops the old model from working -- America gives money to TSPA to keep a proxy which has some strategic assests in terms of assorted Sarkari tanzeems and some slightly less Sarkari tanzeems -- which run around doing what they want as long as they dont mess with TSPA and TSPA stays off their case.

Why is this nice little arrangement which America step-fathered being allowed to be destroyed by the real father of the mess? In the long run the group most hurt by the mess in Pakistan is actually the Americans who need a stable Pakistan to be their cats paw.

Yet they are willing for the Paki state to be jeopardized, for what?

US cares about the TSP state as long as it is a munna killing SDREs and leaving alone amirkhans. Now that the $hit has hit the fan there is no going back to the good old days. TSP is consumed by the cancer of radical Islam. US is trying to salvage what it could out of the sinking ship by pumping money and keeping it afloat for a little while more. It is not that US is jeopardizing TSP state. TSP is being consumed from within whether US pursues its interest or not and the jernails know this better than anyone. They are making hay while the sun shines as ultimately the ship will sink because 60+ years of systematic brainwashing of the population cannot be defeated by any army. By a nuke? Perhaps.

Iam not a strat-A-Geist. But here goes...
1. Pak and AF or AFPAK is key to central asia with contigous land borders. Whatever energy economics happens in future Unkil wants to be main driver. Unkil probably knows the middleeast oil is limited and more places have to be found.
Get AF-PAK , kick all the hardliners etc who were its friends not so long back. Does not want bombs going off everywhere and its soldiers and businessmen getting caught in it.
2. Having pak with a friendly democrat govt or friendly dictator , please note the important word is friendly other things be damned will be almost like making AFPAK another state of US but without the privileges of actual US state. This will make US a neighbour of china, India and Russia. One can onlee guess what games it can play
3. Control India and china from playing one against other , also India will give up idea of attacking pak, it is like taking on unkil. We need loads and loads of weapons with fancy tech and lots of guts among politicians and our elite to do that. So even if the army is ready we will not attack or do anything. In effect a pussy cat India. Just like after 26/11. We will complain , make dossier but firing no no!
4. It will also check russia in the sense any future axis of russia-china-india will be gone. The russian areas of influence like central asia will now be watched over by unkil.

others can add more

Well we all agree that US needs its munna for a variety of reasons. Thats understood too.

Remember the so called extremists are its children too, with which it had no trouble at all doing biz with till even recently (post 9/11), all it cares are its interests met (such as US mainland and citizens safe and making money off the world) and they would happily let the beards run all over the place.

After all Saudi Barbaria is a little more than Afganistan without the chaos and with oil. Religious extremism does not bother US there. Neither does the fact that US is the main supporter of Israel seems to trouble the Beards in Saudi too much either.

So the bottom line is that religious extremism and US go together very well till there is win win -- which was pretty much the case with Af-Pak till recently. All US wants is that it has its preferred extremists in power. Which it already had in Pakistan and its assorted broods.

If US is fighting its own illegitimate offspring and weakening its own brood -- there can be only two options

1) US realizes truly that some of the extremists that are growing in power would not be their extremists come what may (like Iran) which I think is unlikely given the fact that all the extremists have been far well fed by Americans and they have been happy with the arrangement.
2) The other option is that there is a ingredient that we have missed so far. The situation has changed and is not win win for Americans and the beards any more.

What can have brought about 2?

Some children are being helped by different unkils who don't like the current unkil of the world? Current unkil very alarmed at the new unkil in the neighbourhood distributing candies to the children?

Entirely possible... One of the possible conjectures. We should look for any facts which can support this and any other theory.

If true the above would be a big deal.

Global Warming is causing everywhere the temperatures to rise!

There are pronouncements, there are intentions, there are actions and then there are effects! Everybody can see, that there is a vast difference between pronouncements and actions of USA and everything seems to be working at cross-purposes. The question boils down to whether their intentions are more in line with the justification of actions, or even the interpretation of actions of USA on the one hand, or are the intentions more in line with the effects.

If they are more in line with the effects, then there is truth in the following:

Do not follow, why does US need a broken Pakistan to achieve the above. It was achieving it at much better ROI before.

Poetic justice .

In opposing the May 18, 2005 escape clause filled fatwa against suicide bombing orchestrated by the Gen. Musharraf military dictatorship, Islamic Cleric Sarfraz Naeemi had said that suicide attacks were permissible in Islam:

The actions of USA in the last 30 years have had one effect - the steady radicalization of Muslims. Of course, the potential needs to be there, for it to be tapped. Having brought Soviet Union to its knees using Jihad, it is not a far cry to admit, that Jihad has a lot more potential, which can be used to keep the adversaries in check.

The rise of Asia is a direct threat to the hegemony of USA. So either USA can control Asia by being a central player in Asia well dug-in in Central Asia, or USA takes care that nobody else can control the center. The center in this case should become a source of instability for all. Burn all you cannot possess, and TSP too is simply wood.

Warning: It is just a theory!

How so ever much the thirst for revenge is quenched, there is but one final piece of that thirst remaining. OBL. Only when he is in the bag (Body bag literally) will there be closure for this WOT.
One possibility is that the US is putting a squeeze on Pakistan itself to make it cough out OBL in sheer desperation at the situation. Pakistan might see the light and say OK take OBL but leave this region.
This seems more likely to me.

Acharya-saar
For one, please do clarify. Are you trying to imply that desh purposely ignored paki preparation so that we get an opportunity to fight, win, achieve unity, army-intel modernization and give BJP a shot at forming government ?

If so, there is no event on the ground that substantiates this claim. If you revisit 98-99 period, '96 government (Deve Gowda) fell in jan/feb 98 followed by elections in feb/march 98 and '98 government (Vajpayee) formed in March 98. Kargil was detected in Feb/March 99. There are four indications which point to the fact that we got caught with our pants down.

1. Prep/planning for Kargil should have started during Gowda's period or atleast during Indian elections.
2. ABV government was in power for less than a year at that time and by every indication was interested in peace (Lahore bus etc)*
3. The infiltration caught IA by surprise. What even George Fernandes said (we will kick them out in two weeks) proved to be false with a long and costly (in terms of lives and money) battle being fought. First declaration that Air power will "escalate" then asking for airforce. IAF declaring the precision bombs are a "waste" followed by another downhill skiing for that. Losing a few guns to counter battery fire because we did not have WLRs
4. We nearly got our goose cooked and would have had a serious bloody nose if not for Bofors and Mirage 2000. Add to that last minute procurement of everything from coffins to ammunition where we were cheated of millions.

Does all these point to some chanakyan decision to ignore paki buildup or does it point out to SDREs getting caught with their pants down, but managing to deliver a thappad nevertheless ?

In that sense isnt the 62 thappad that we got also a chanakyan move ? (The massive rearmament of desh and a shift to one of the superpowers happened after 62.)

*By all indications ABV's government was caught by surprise. There were multiple confusing messages all around, with ABV complaining of betrayal, George Fernandes and Advani giving Nawaz "a clean chit", George Fernandes talking of "safe passage" and then downhill skiing. Ityaadi. That does look uber chanakyan to me.

A hatrick completed with mosques suicide bombed on three consecutive Fridays.

Is there something in the IEDology of Pakistan that says that suicide bombing mosques on Friday leads to a better quality IED Mubarak?

^^^
Or is it that jumma ensures better turnout & hence our soosai bomber has a chance to fast track his application to djannat?

Arun, Poetic Justice indeed!