Bharat Rakshak

Consortium of Indian Defence Websites
It is currently 18 Apr 2014 23:04

All times are UTC + 5:30 hours




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 2966 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 75  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: 13 Jun 2009 00:24 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 21 Jun 2000 11:31
Posts: 3041
Any update or information on Mr. Hemant Rout or the whole affair?

Old thread here


Last edited by Rahul M on 22 Jan 2010 22:21, edited 3 times in total.
edited thread title.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 13 Jun 2009 05:19 
Online
BRFite

Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Posts: 808
Location: Chaguanas, Trinidad
Yes - I e-mailed Rout directly. He never responded. My contact within the Express Group has been digging ever since and today spoke with a very senior DRDO officer (names are available off forum) and he stated that as far as the test went DRDO was satisfied that it was a success. The impression (and it is only an impression) that was received is that the army has no intention of saying anything at all on the test.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2009 02:01 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: 15 Nov 1999 12:31
Posts: 7280
Abdul Kalam on Competition and Dependence
Quote:
Q: You’ve been called the “Missile Man of India” and the “People’s President.” Is there an incongruity between your desire to empower the world with peace and making India a nuclear power?

A: I am innocent to the whole affair! I did not call myself these names! (laughs). When a nation is surrounded by weaponized nations, she has to equip herself. That’s what India has done. To make the nation peaceful and prosperous, we need minimum security. That’s what we have done.

Q: What was your immediate reaction when “Agni” and “Prithvi” missiles were successful?

A: I was right there and witnessed the whole thing. Courage is key. My message, especially to young people is to have courage to think differently, courage to invent, to travel the unexplored path, courage to discover the impossible and to conquer the problems and succeed. These are great qualities that they must work towards. This is my message to the young people.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2009 10:01 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Posts: 21680
Location: I have principles, and if you don't like them, I have others
Sanjay wrote:
Yes - I e-mailed Rout directly. He never responded.


That is suspicious behavior for a person whose words are read by a large audience.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2009 10:34 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 14 Jun 2000 11:31
Posts: 2803
Location: KhyberDurra
It is good that everyone is finally shutup on the army test of the Agni-II from stock . It should been that way from the first second, but finally someone woke up in the heaven (i.e. south block). :wink:

Knowing what a fallen soul like me knows, it is good no one is talking.

Let me end at that, for good or for worse I will let the reader determine for herself/himself.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2009 11:08 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 06 Feb 2009 07:46
Posts: 1433
Location: GSLV++
Arun_S wrote:
It is good that everyone is finally shutup on the army test of the Agni-II from stock . It should been that way from the first second, but finally someone woke up in the heaven (i.e. south block). :wink:

Knowing what a fallen soul like me knows, it is good no one is talking.

Let me end at that, for good for worse I will let the reader determine for herself/himself.

Good to hear from you Arun. I do have one comment to what you have said, despite my respect for your expertise. If everyone in this thread starts taking a noncommittal stance then this thread will be reduced to mere post mortem analysis of DDM reports, i.e. making it no different to the other forums out there. I understand that in the interest of national security some information needs to be concealed and some information needs to be spun around for psy-ops, as you like to call it. One hopes that is the exception and not the norm otherwise why don't we just take the DDM reports at face value, be happy, and go to sleep? Why keep regurgitating whatever we have read in the DDM reports for the sake of 'discussion'?

The noncommittal stance would also help everyone say "I told you so" when the next piece of news comes out.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2009 18:22 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 19 Feb 2004 12:31
Posts: 149
Location: Mumbai
Times Now reporting on Agni V ,5000km range multiple warheads etc...

http://www.timesnow.tv/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2009 21:25 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 25 Sep 2006 04:16
Posts: 1305
India Conducts Second Ballistic Missile Test In A Month

Quote:
NEW DELHI (AFP)--India on Friday successfully launched a ballistic missile in the second such trial of the nuclear-capable weapon in a month, the defense ministry said.

The Agni-II missile blasted off from a testing site in eastern India and " achieved all its flight parameters without hitch," a senior ministry official told AFP.

"It was a user trial conducted by the army and defense scientists," he said of the rocket, which the military says is capable of hitting targets deep inside adjoining China.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2009 21:34 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Posts: 36506
Good job. As expected on time.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2009 21:50 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 14 Jun 2000 11:31
Posts: 2803
Location: KhyberDurra
sunilUpa wrote:
India Conducts Second Ballistic Missile Test In A Month

Quote:
NEW DELHI (AFP)--India on Friday successfully launched a ballistic missile in the second such trial of the nuclear-capable weapon in a month, the defense ministry said.

The Agni-II missile blasted off from a testing site in eastern India and " achieved all its flight parameters without hitch," a senior ministry official told AFP.

"It was a user trial conducted by the army and defense scientists," he said of the rocket, which the military says is capable of hitting targets deep inside adjoining China.



:wink: Very unusual.

IMVHO shows many butts were roasted in "Agni" by the previous "successful Agni-II" test, forcing a scramble to get a successful Agni-II test in shortest possible time, and ensure there is no doubt in any quarter in credible Agni-II based deterrence (this time defense scientists join the user trial).

Good thing this time is no pre-announcement in press of a flight test, and a crisp press release with the key words : " achieved all its flight parameters".
-------
Added later: Edited incorrect use of a term.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2009 21:54 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Posts: 36506
What do you mean semblance? It is credible. One Routten report doesnt shake it. But to be fair awesome world class recovery time.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2009 21:55 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 30 Jan 2009 18:49
Posts: 147
http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=80945

Quote:
India conducts second ballistic missile test in a month
Updated at: 2115 PST, Friday, June 19, 2009
NEW DELHI: India on Friday successfully launched a ballistic missile in the second such trial of the nuclear-capable weapon in a month, the defence ministry said.

The Agni-II missile blasted off from a testing site in eastern India and "achieved all its flight parameters without hitch," a senior ministry official said.

"It was a user trial conducted by the army and defence scientists," he said of the rocket, which the military says is capable of hitting targets deep inside adjoining China.

The test was the second since May 19 when a similar 2,500-kilometre (1,560-mile) range Agni-II was fired from the same site, hitting a pre-designated target in the Bay of Bengal.

The Indian-developed 20-metre-long missile weighs 16 tonnes and is capable of carrying one tonne of conventional or nuclear warheads.

Friday's trial, part of the nation's efforts to build a credible minimum nuclear deterrent, paves the way for the missile's mass production and eventual induction by the Indian army, the official said.

India already has the 3,000-kilometre range Agni-III missile -- the longest in the Agni series -- which can also carry conventional or nuclear payloads.

Unconfirmed reports suggest India is also building an Agni variant with a range of 5,000 kilometres.

The Agni (Fire) is one of a series being developed by India's Defence Research Development Organisation as part of the country's deterrent strategy against China and neighbouring Pakistan, which also have nuclear weapons.

Agni-I, first tested in 1993, has a strike range of 1,500 kilometres.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2009 21:55 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 25 Sep 2006 04:16
Posts: 1305
Arun_S wrote:

:wink: Very unusual.

IMVHO shows many butts were roasted in "Agni" by the previous "successful Agni-II" test, forcing a scramble to get a successful Agni-II test in shortest possible time, and ensure there is no doubt in any quarter in credible Agni-II based deterrence (this time defense scientists join the user trial).

Good thing this time is no pre-announcement in press of a flight test, and a crisp press release with the key words : " achieved all its flight parameters".


IMVHO..it is unusual, agree with you 400%.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2009 22:10 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 14 Jun 2000 11:31
Posts: 2803
Location: KhyberDurra
India Tests Nuclear-Capable Missile: globalsecuritynewswire
Quote:
Friday, June 19, 2009

India today conducted a successful test launch of its nuclear-capable Agni 2 ballistic missile, Agence France-Presse reported (see GSN, May 19).

The weapon was fired from eastern India and "achieved all its flight parameters without hitch," a high-level Indian Defense Ministry official told AFP.

"It was a user trial conducted by the army and defense scientists," the official said, adding that the test marked a new step toward mass-producing the weapon for India's army. The missile was last tested on May 19.

The Agni 2 is 65 feet long, weighs 17.6 tons and is designed to carry nuclear or conventional warheads beyond 1,500 miles. India's Agni 3 ballistic missile has a flight range approaching 1,900 miles.

India is working on a version of the weapon capable of traveling up to 3,100 miles, unconfirmed reports indicate.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2009 22:23 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 14 Jun 2000 11:31
Posts: 2803
Location: KhyberDurra
Indian arms spree on the fast track


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2009 23:40 
Online
BRFite

Joined: 17 Jan 2003 12:31
Posts: 1941
Location: USA
I wish it were too. Looks more like a US defence budget (it is too low for it). Probably missing a decimal. From 21.1 to 28.3 & 11 bil in capital expenditure is more like it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2009 23:45 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 16 May 2009 15:24
Posts: 319
Or they mixed up the currency $ for INR :D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2009 23:58 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: 15 Nov 1999 12:31
Posts: 7280
Laxmipat Singhania award for missile scientist
Quote:
The citation said Dr. Das had created the kernel that would provide the basis for many breakthroughs in electro-optics and its applications in the tracking systems of the missile programme.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2009 05:10 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 14 Jun 2000 11:31
Posts: 2803
Location: KhyberDurra
Times Of India: Agni-III, with China in range, to be tested
Quote:
20 Jun 2009, 0356 hrs IST, Rajat Pandit, TNN
NEW DELHI: After basing Sukhoi-30MKI fighter jets in the North-East, India is now all set to conduct another test of the 3,500-km-range Agni-III ballistic missile next month.

"Agni-III, a 16.7-metre tall missile with a lift-off weight of 50 tonnes, should be tested within a month, towards end-July. This will be another step towards inducting it into the armed forces,'' said top defence sources on Friday.

Once fully-ready by 2011-2012, Agni-III will provide India with the capability to strike deep into China, with cities like Shanghai and Beijing well within its potent reach.

India, incidentally, is also working on the 5,000-km-range Agni-V missile, which will have near-ICBM (intercontinental ballistic missile) capabilities, but it will be ready for its first test only by late-2010.

Asked about the Agni-V on Friday, defence minister A K Antony only said the government was taking "all steps'' to build "whatever capabilities'' were needed "as per changing threat perceptions'' to protect national security.

Both Agni-III and Agni-V are primarily designed to bolster India's "active credible deterrence posture'' against China, especially since it has a clear-cut "no-first use'' nuclear doctrine.

China's expanding nuclear and missile arsenal, of course, has even the US worried. The Chinese DF-31A ICBM, with a strike range of 11,270 km, for instance, can target any location in the continental US.

India's missile programme is rudimentary by these standards, and even lags behind Pakistan in certain aspects. In fact, only the Prithvi (150-350 km) and Agni-I (700-km) missiles, primarily meant for Pakistan, can be said to be fully operational in the armed forces till now.

The tri-Service Strategic Forces Command is still engaged in conducting "training user-trials'' of the 2,000-km Agni-II. The first such Agni-II trial last month "failed to meet the laid-down flight parameters'', say sources.
{ :wink: }
But defence scientists say they are not deterred by a flop or two. The first test of the rail-mobile Agni-III in July 2006 had flopped miserably, spurring them to ensure the second one in April 2007 and the third one in May 2008 were successful.

As for India's most ambitious missile till now, the Agni-V, the scientists are incorporating a third composite stage in the two-stage Agni-III, along with some advanced technologies like ring laser gyroscope and accelerator for navigation and guidance.

They want the solid-fuelled Agni-V, for which the government has sanctioned around Rs 2,500 crore, to be a canister-launch missile system to ensure it has the requisite operational flexibility to be fired from any part of the country.

Now Rajat Pandit puts it on a national daily. Mr. Hemant Rout can't be routed now and is probably quietly enjoying the last laugh.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2009 05:25 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 25 Sep 2006 04:16
Posts: 1305
Hmmm 'training user' trials? I thought earlier trial was a user trial where a random missile from the stock was fired and it failed, there by the 'credibility' of AII stockpile being suspect. Now the trial is 'Training user'?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2009 05:30 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Posts: 9948
Location: Illini Nation
Teething problems.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2009 05:32 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 25 Sep 2006 04:16
Posts: 1305
NRao wrote:
Teething problems.

Can't be for inducted missile.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2009 05:50 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 14 Jun 2000 11:31
Posts: 2803
Location: KhyberDurra
NRao wrote:
Teething problems.

No saar, it is not teething problem. It is "the Ostrich problem", that puts faith ahead of scientific methods and statistics to prove reliability and accuracy of missile.

Sad but that is the way it is; just see for yourself the number of tested done on warheads and missiles that constitutes Indian nuclear deterrence !!
One can't fight with numbers and facts.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2009 05:54 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: 15 Nov 1999 12:31
Posts: 7280
sunilUpa wrote:
NRao wrote:
Teething problems.

Can't be for inducted missile.


From Ayatollah Blog (regarding NoKo dingdongs)
Quote:
The fact that they already have a rocket body ready to move to the West coast launch complex means that they are following what in the US would be called “concurrent acquisition.” In such an development path, the North would be “mass producing” U’nha-2’s even as it develops it. This has been practiced in the US, and has in fact, been used for many of the US ICBM development programs; programs which are judged so vital to the national interest that the US has been willing to run the risk of building into a number of missiles any design/production problems that might be discovered during the testing program.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2009 06:27 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Posts: 21680
Location: I have principles, and if you don't like them, I have others
Arun_S wrote:
Now Rajat Pandit puts it on a national daily. Mr. Hemant Rout can't be routed now and is probably quietly enjoying the last laugh.


No one can grudge Rout his laugh or seek to "rout" him, but the reason I am not laughing is because I have a concern about Rout's source of information.

To my untrained mind, the description of the first failure sounded like the words of a person within the missile test monitoring facility who was able to accurately point out that the 90 degree flight path deviation occurred after first stage separation and the missile flight time was off. This is "insider information"

Unless you are sitting and monitoring the flight path of the missile - you will not be able to say such things. This means that Hemant Kumar Rout has an "insider contact" who gives him information. Rout may have published this as a breaking story, but later may have found himself wrong-footed because everyone else kept mum and he was a loner at risk of exposing his insider contact person within the test facility.

That also explains why the Rout was silent when emailed by Sanjay. Rout probably has a person inside the test facility leaking information. I am not sure this thought makes me laugh and to me this is the most likely explanation. There seems to be a person leaking information from the heart of India's strategic missile test facility.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2009 07:05 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 25 Sep 2006 04:16
Posts: 1305
shiv wrote:
Arun_S wrote:
Now Rajat Pandit puts it on a national daily. Mr. Hemant Rout can't be routed now and is probably quietly enjoying the last laugh.


No one can grudge Rout his laugh or seek to "rout" him, but the reason I am not laughing is because I have a concern about Rout's source of information.

To my untrained mind, the description of the first failure sounded like the words of a person within the missile test monitoring facility who was able to accurately point out that the 90 degree flight path deviation occurred after first stage separation and the missile flight time was off. This is "insider information"

Unless you are sitting and monitoring the flight path of the missile - you will not be able to say such things. This means that Hemant Kumar Rout has an "insider contact" who gives him information. Rout may have published this as a breaking story, but later may have found himself wrong-footed because everyone else kept mum and he was a loner at risk of exposing his insider contact person within the test facility.

That also explains why the Rout was silent when emailed by Sanjay. Rout probably has a person inside the test facility leaking information. I am not sure this thought makes me laugh and to me this is the most likely explanation. There seems to be a person leaking information from the heart of India's strategic missile test facility.


Bingo..his information was too specific.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2009 07:18 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 14 Jun 2000 11:31
Posts: 2803
Location: KhyberDurra
Shiv, It not clear to me what is the yardstick you wish to use to determine "insider information"? I sense anything that is not reported by PTI is "insider information" by your reasoning.

In your view this Rajat Pandit's article also using/pushing "insider information"?

The above is totally different from recognized consideration that on the matters of strategic deterrence, transparency in news report is an essential pillar. In my books GoI's has miserable failing scores on this. The last month's "successful Agni-report" was a new first by GoI, that has hitherto been honest about what it said in its news brief; that has caused heartburns in many quarters inside GoI and aam janata.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2009 08:41 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Posts: 21680
Location: I have principles, and if you don't like them, I have others
Arun_S wrote:
Shiv, It not clear to me what is the yardstick you wish to use to determine "insider information"? I sense anything that is not reported by PTI is "insider information" by your reasoning.

In your view this Rajat Pandit's article also using/pushing "insider information"?

The above is totally different from recognized consideration that on the matters of strategic deterrence, transparency in news report is an essential pillar. In my books GoI's has miserable failing scores on this. The last month's "successful Agni-report" was a new first by GoI, that has hitherto been honest about what it said in its news brief; that has caused heartburns in many quarters inside GoI and aam janata.



Arun we have five false reports that all was well with the earlier Agni test, with only one reporter, Hemant Kumar Rout who had specific information about the test being a failure.

As far as I know, in the world of media and information, this is a cause for great celebration and reason as you rightly expressed it "to have the last laugh" and heartily at that.

Now why is Hemant Kumar Rout not responding to a specific query about the truth of his report? Perhaps he is otherwise busy. But that is uncharacteristic of the media who celebrate being he first to get correct information.

Is it possible that he does not want to reveal his source because the release of true information about the failure was not supposed to have occurred and it was an embarrassing misunderstanding where the insider innocently told Rout the truth and Rout innocently got it published, both not realising that bumbling higher authorities wanted to hush it up?

So both the insider and Rout may be innocent, but the fact of information leak, if true, is worrying. What else is leaking out and to whom.

On an even more serious and tragic note - Rout and his insider pal may be bigger patriots than we give them credit for. He may be telling the truth about serious flaws. Imagine the treachery of those who know the insider truth of failures but are hiding the same. We have discussed all this in relation to nukes, if you recall.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2009 09:26 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 25 Jan 2009 17:13
Posts: 322
shiv wrote:
On an even more serious and tragic note - Rout and his insider pal may be bigger patriots than we give them credit for. He may be telling the truth about serious flaws. Imagine the treachery of those who know the insider truth of failures but are hiding the same. We have discussed all this in relation to nukes, if you recall.


I totally with Shiv here. At the time of national emergency we might get caught with our pants down as someone may call our bluff. This becomes an even more graver cause of concern because we are surrounded by hostile parties who have already made their weapons operational and have little qualms of using it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2009 09:45 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 14 Jun 2000 11:31
Posts: 2803
Location: KhyberDurra
[quote]
On an even more serious and tragic note - Rout and his insider pal may be bigger patriots than we give them credit for. He may be telling the truth about serious flaws. Imagine the treachery of those who know the insider truth of failures but are hiding the same. We have discussed all this in relation to nukes, if you recall.

[/quote]

Humm, ... a mayaavi talented in time wrap and mind game.

Indian ship is "Ram Bharosay" (unlike the regimented ship of the ruffians around ); where Captain does not have a tight reign and loose cannon Johnnies on the deck, then playing the game of pretend is a losing proposition, OTOH playing bluff with truthfulness in reporting is confidence building, no matter how rusty the gun; it may misfire sometimes but enough to put serious fear of death on the guy across the high table.

JMT.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2009 11:15 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 25 Jan 2009 17:13
Posts: 322
Arun_S wrote:
... no matter how rusty the gun; it may misfire sometimes but enough to put the serious fear of death on the guy across the high table.

JMT.


But the person firing the gun will also always be in the mortal fear of the gun misfiring or blowing up on his face and never have the confidence to use it as needed.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2009 12:24 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 06 Feb 2009 07:46
Posts: 1433
Location: GSLV++
AmitR wrote:
Arun_S wrote:
... no matter how rusty the gun; it may misfire sometimes but enough to put the serious fear of death on the guy across the high table.

JMT.


But the person firing the gun will also always be in the mortal fear of the gun misfiring or blowing up on his face and never have the confidence to use it as needed.

Well, officially our arsenal is for a retaliatory strike. When you're retaliating you're not concerned about what (more) you could lose because by definition you have already lost something more than what you were prepared to lose. So the success probability for a single retaliatory device need not be 100%, although it would help if it was.

However, India needs to be able to quantitatively measure its ability to retaliate in terms of its response time, vehicle count, success probability, and sustainability of the retaliatory campaign. The success probability and the vehicle count multiply to give the effective vehicle count. Any anti ballistic missile defense capability with the opposition simply reduces the success probability further.

Only if we can measure our ability quantitatively can we even provision for a sufficient and credible deterrent that balances the capabilities of the opposition, i.e. whatever we estimate it to be. Otherwise there are only some vehicles and warheads but no real deterrent because the opposition doesn't perceive the provisioning to be sufficient. When so few tests are performed, and this is where I agree with Arun, the opposition can make an educated guess that we don't really understand our own effective capability, so how can we possibly provision for a sufficient deterrent? We don't have money to throw away by over-provisioning either - but I could be wrong there.

If the opposition makes an educated guess that our provisioning is insufficient then the deterrent loses credibility and the deterrent ceases to deter.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2009 15:22 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 30 Jan 2009 18:49
Posts: 147
Quote:
India's missile programme is rudimentary by these standards, and even lags behind Pakistan in certain aspects. In fact, only the Prithvi (150-350 km) and Agni-I (700-km) missiles, primarily meant for Pakistan, can be said to be fully operational in the armed forces till now.


Just to note , earlier Mr. Pandit used to say that only Prithvi was fully operational. Now he has added Agni-I in the list.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2009 16:45 
Online
BRFite

Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Posts: 808
Location: Chaguanas, Trinidad
Note something else- Pandit said that the trial failed to meet all parameters. He did not say it crashed after 127 seconds. There is a difference.

For the record, I only asked Rout if he stood by his story and he failed to respond to that.

If there is a leak as Shiv suggests - that is of extreme concern.

Notice something else - nobody in the Indian press has picked up the 2nd Agni-2 test yet. Am I wrong on this one ? Unless of course the test was rushed and done so as to ensure a successful user trial without attention being focussed on the first user trial


Last edited by Sanjay on 20 Jun 2009 17:16, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2009 17:09 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31
Posts: 5744
Rajat Pandit is not alone in displaying some scepticism about India’s operational deployment of ballistic missiles.

Going by the Ballistic & Cruise Missile Threat Report 2009 put out by NASIC, the Government of India has either starved DRDO of funding or we have all been very badly let down by DRDO.

In the MRBM/IRBM category Iran (Shahab-3), North Korea (No Dong), Pakistan (Ghauri) and Saudi Arabia (CSS-2) are listed as having missile launcher inventories of “fewer than 50”.

India on the other hand in the MRBM/IRBM category (Agni-II) is listed as having missile launcher inventories of “fewer than 10” which suggests that they are yet to become operational.

In the SRBM category the launcher inventory for Prithvi I/III is listed as “fewer than 50” and for Agni-I is listed as “fewer than 25” suggesting operationalisation.

Click here for the NASIC Report


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2009 17:21 
Online
BRFite

Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Posts: 808
Location: Chaguanas, Trinidad
That is patently incorrect regarding Prithvi. The Prithvi inventory stands at 180+ possibly as many as 240.

Why is less than 10 not operational ? What is the TOE of an Agni missile group ? The conclusion is completely wrong.

In 2004 each Agni group achieved their IOC with 8 launchers apiece. From there production has continued. What would be a more appropriate question to ask is how many missiles have been produced vs how many have been deployed.

With the Prithvi, at one time the rate of production exceeded the absorption rate leading to missiles being stored at BDL for quite some time.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2009 17:49 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 10 May 2005 10:26
Posts: 625
Sanjay wrote:
That is patently incorrect regarding Prithvi. The Prithvi inventory stands at 180+ possibly as many as 240.

Why is less than 10 not operational ? What is the TOE of an Agni missile group ? The conclusion is completely wrong.

In 2004 each Agni group achieved their IOC with 8 launchers apiece. From there production has continued. What would be a more appropriate question to ask is how many missiles have been produced vs how many have been deployed.

With the Prithvi, at one time the rate of production exceeded the absorption rate leading to missiles being stored at BDL for quite some time.



I agree with Sanjay on the number of Prithvi's produced.. BDL is still producing more Prithvi's of 350km range.. We have a triple digit number of Prithvi's in the inventory -- this is as per info from BDL stall @ AI09


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2009 18:08 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: 15 Nov 1999 12:31
Posts: 7280
Quote:
Click here for the NASIC Report


A laughable document, using open source NPA estimates. The NPAs will now quote the NASIC report as official. Interesting that no French or Israeli ballistic missiles are there, presumably because these are not a threat to the USA, unlike Indian missiles. Also interesting that pictures of Indian missiles were used to illustrate each section.

a comment on the Ayatollah Blog
Quote:
I was shocked until I read the bottom and realized this was put out by Wright-Patterson’s public relations office as opposed to analyst. Very incomplete overall; entire systems are missing, the size comparison drawings are either not to scale or just plain wrong and it has a very nasueting manner of introducing French and South African cruise missiles into the threat category mix. It would serve them too much of a complement to say they relied exclusively upon google to produce this brief.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2009 18:56 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 30 Jan 2009 18:49
Posts: 147
arun wrote:
Rajat Pandit is not alone in displaying some scepticism about India’s operational deployment of ballistic missiles.

Going by the Ballistic & Cruise Missile Threat Report 2009 put out by NASIC, the Government of India has either starved DRDO of funding or we have all been very badly let down by DRDO.

In the MRBM/IRBM category Iran (Shahab-3), North Korea (No Dong), Pakistan (Ghauri) and Saudi Arabia (CSS-2) are listed as having missile launcher inventories of “fewer than 50”.

India on the other hand in the MRBM/IRBM category (Agni-II) is listed as having missile launcher inventories of “fewer than 10” which suggests that they are yet to become operational.

In the SRBM category the launcher inventory for Prithvi I/III is listed as “fewer than 50” and for Agni-I is listed as “fewer than 25” suggesting operationalisation.

Click here for the NASIC Report


The report mentioned about the launcher, but not about the no of missiles. The number could be different. I also doubt the repost as it didn't mentioned about the Indian cruse missile. Also to note that repost says in the MRBM/IRBM category operational Pakistan missile is Ghauri with range 800 miles. No of Shaheen II (1250 miles) is not known. so Pak don't have enough missile to reach every parts of India.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2009 23:46 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 26 Jan 2005 13:59
Posts: 627
Barak 8
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/ ... get086.jpg
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/ ... get088.jpg

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/sh ... 448&page=3


Last edited by Gerard on 20 Jun 2009 23:58, edited 1 time in total.
removed inlining


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 2966 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 75  Next

All times are UTC + 5:30 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group