Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 16 Jul 2009 00:34

Whenever we see pakistan's civilian leadership eager for talks, it is because they have come to know that their army has authorized a major terror attack.
The civilians want to keep good relations with India, which I know supports them in several ways against their army. This is the civilians way of showing that they want peace, there is chai-biskut and some info does get slipped across. Dialogue by the civilians with India gives them back-up support back home as the representatives of Pakistan. The pakistan army keeps this in check, by committing acts of terror to not allow bonhomie to go overboard.
To a certain extent India tolerates this behaviour, because this is a given factor in subcontinental politics. As sad or as funny as it may sound, India still has not developed that zero tolerance to terror. It is surprising what India can achieve if it really really wants to, but it seems that there is no will among either the politicians or the bureaucrats to be proactive.

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 16 Jul 2009 00:36

One thing I dont understand is why the communications were not jammed? I understand trying to get proof of Porki involvement, but after a point they had all the proof required. Why were they allowed to get directions and moral support till the end?

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 16 Jul 2009 00:45

Further, the pakistanis have now put their faith in sat phones. Is the indian intelligence set up capable of intercepting or blocking this?
The US's help will be needed to tap these phones from their ground stations in dubai.

yvijay · Post by **yvijay** » 16 Jul 2009 00:51

Tanaji wrote:One thing I dont understand is why the communications were not jammed? I understand trying to get proof of Porki involvement, but after a point they had all the proof required. Why were they allowed to get directions and moral support till the end?

Even I did not understand allowing the communications after some point. The operation took like 3 days and they were never stopped. Or may be as Gagan said, we don't have the technology to block the Sat phones ?

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 16 Jul 2009 01:09

In 26/11, the pakistanis used Internet VOIP at their end and latched onto the mobile network in india for the final mile connectivity.
It was easy to intercept and also to block the comm.

I don't agree that blocking these guys would have been proper.
1. India did not know who these people were, what were their aims.
2. The risk of a JDAM attack on india is real. Quietly intercepting their calls gave vital intel input.
3. It was soon evident that this is a suicide attack, so these guys are not going to be captured alive to sing. Kasab was an unexpected bonus - but lady luck doesn't smile always.
4. Interception of their calls also provided vital intel on their status within the buildings. For example Fahadulla was in the bathroom, the terrorists at nariman house had only two hostages alive, and they killed them off too. The NSG / MARCOS were operating with this intel input available to them and to the government.
5. Eventually, the only thing that these terrorists got from their masters were some divine platitudes, and clear directions to shoot him or her. The controllers were digging their own graves. Imagine the shock the terror masters must have had when they realized that their voices were being broadcast all over the world. Pakistan could not hid behind even that fig leaf.

Everyone in the world knows that pakistan's army is involved. The only reason we don't seem to see action is because, of the face-saving wala chakkar that the pakistanis have. They must have gone to massa, blurted out everything and asked for their butts to be saved again from India. With massa bearing down on India to not attack / carry out a symbolic raids only. Because india chose not to press home a response, rightly believing it seems, that pakistan should not be distracted from committing suicide that it is so eagerly doing these days, pakistan is much more closer to the precipice, the US has much greater control over their army commanders (they did agree to persue the taliban across swat after 26/11), and india has some US gratitude by not intervening overtly at that juncture.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 16 Jul 2009 01:13

we will know unkil ka haath very soon. lets see if f-18 comes with big discount or not

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 16 Jul 2009 07:34

Hafeez Saeed's case: Federal Government seeks a short adjournment

Both Punjab Government and the Federal Government moved the Supreme Court. The Punjab Government has withdrawn from the case citing insufficient evidence given by the federal government. The Federal Government is seeking a short adjournment just so that the Sharam-el-Sheikh meeting can conclude and India agreed to the resumption of talks based on on-going Pakistani efforts regarding LeT and Hafeez Saeed. This is pure and simple deception.

The Pakistan federal government, one of the petitioners against the release of Hafiz Saeed in the Supreme Court, moved an application on Wednesday seeking a short adjournment of the hearing.

The fresh move by the government for adjournment ensures that the court proceedings will be safely put off at least until next week, out of the way of Thursday’s talks in Sharm-el-Sheikh.

But Deputy Attorney-General Shah Khawar, who submitted the written application for the adjournment, denied it had anything to do with the India-Pakistan talks.

“We want that the Attorney-General [Latif Khosa] himself should argue the case, but he is not in the city tomorrow, so we moved the application for a short adjournment,” Mr. Khawar told The Hindu.

He said the federal government was “very clear” that it would argue the appeal against Mr. Saeed’s release “until the very end,” and there would be no withdrawal from the case on its part. “These are also the Prime Minister’s instructions.”

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 16 Jul 2009 08:07

Hmmm, something's going on:
1. Pakistan deferring Hafeez Sayeed's court case
2. Pakistan calling repeatedly for talks with India.
3. Pakistan waiting for some conclusion of the talks with India before proceeding with the court case.

=>

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 16 Jul 2009 09:17

Apologies if posted earlier,

Full video of Channel 4 documentary on Mumbai attack.
http://www.fileuploading.net/662920

BSR Murthy · Post by **BSR Murthy** » 16 Jul 2009 10:42

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/0 ... ?ref=world
Read the comments and especially the replies from the blog writer.

kenop · Post by **kenop** » 16 Jul 2009 11:11

Gagan wrote:Further, the pakistanis have now put their faith in sat phones. Is the indian intelligence set up capable of intercepting or blocking this?
The US's help will be needed to tap these phones from their ground stations in dubai.

I am not clear if it were Indian agencies tapping (taping).
Are there any credible reports on this?

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 16 Jul 2009 11:21

Oh it should be easy to tap a mobile phone within India I would think. Well within the capabilities of India's intel set up.
It is the satellite phones (Thuraya) that will pose a problem. Their base station in Dubai will need to be tapped into I think.
Some guru in the telecom field needs to elaborate here.

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 16 Jul 2009 14:31

Blocking is much more easier to accomplished than intercepting. If it was being intercepted, it could have much more easily be blocked.

Mobile phones are easier to intercept than satellite phones because the switch that controls everything is under your control. All MSCs that are sold come with a Legal Intercept Gateway, essentially a module that allows you to record everything based on the IMSI or any other parameter. You don't have to grab over the air transmissions and decrypt it to do this, the MSC does it for you. The only disadvantage is that there is a limit on how many you can record at the same time.

Satellite phones are a bit difficult because you dont have access to their switch, at least not with the Thuraya network. In theory you can grab it off the air and decrypt it if the encryption algorithm is weak or you have the key to it. I don't know how they did it for Mumbai. Regardless of this, jamming is much easier. Thuraya operates in L-band which is 1 - 2 GHz and more specifically they operate around 1.5 - 1.6GHz. Not too hard to have a jammer that operates in that range and will jam all frequencies for a small region in that range.

You can buy a mobile phone jammer off the shelf yourself:
http://duniaspy.itrademarket.com/660273 ... jammer.htm

sum · Post by **sum** » 16 Jul 2009 16:38

Is the indian intelligence set up capable of intercepting or blocking this?

IIRC, we had developed the intercepting abilities for sat phones (Thuraya in particular).

Shyamd had posted about this some time back (if i remember correctly)

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 16 Jul 2009 17:25

Some time back, someone wanted to close this thread because he saw no movement given the way Pakistan was approaching the whole issue. I was against the closure at that time. Today, after India has surrendered to Pakistan by delinking terrorism from further talks of composite dialogue, I feel that no purpose is going to be served any longer by keeping this thread open.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 16 Jul 2009 17:29

I dont know what people expect. the present dispention was liked by the Pakistanis and the powers that be, hence the the show of Hafiz Saeed being arrested. Once the elections were over and the Pakistanis had a favourable government in power they have backtracked.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 16 Jul 2009 23:26

SSridhar wrote:Some time back, someone wanted to close this thread because he saw no movement given the way Pakistan was approaching the whole issue. I was against the closure at that time. Today, after India has surrendered to Pakistan by delinking terrorism from further talks of composite dialogue, I feel that no purpose is going to be served any longer by keeping this thread open.

Oh no! SSridhar, let us document the glorious response of the secular, democratic aam aadmi congress govt of India when more than 200 of road side people are killed in broad daylight for 6 days in camera.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 16 Jul 2009 23:26

deleted repeat post

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jul 2009 23:27

Three whines in succession and one is out.

Baljeet · Post by **Baljeet** » 17 Jul 2009 01:26

Now here is a smackdown from G Parthasarthy. He just gave a very honest opinion and rebukes the Statesman PM of India. Does this remind anyone of Havana meet where this statesman PM agreed that Pak and India are both victim of terrorism.
Even the people who are in the know are calling that PM of India has betrayed the people of this country. You have to watch the gem from KC Singh at the end of this video

Here is the link
Betrayel of People of Mumbai by PM

Any doubts after that

Some Members have been saying where next? Lets analyze the similarities of prior attacks somewhere. My hypothesis is, ISI has perfected the art of learning from history. Here are the few similarities

1. Mumbai Attack Most Brazen with Direct Control from ISI and paki army over action. Similarity Bay of Pigs, when disenfranchised people of cuban descent wanted to install democracy in cuba with Unkils help with full support and control of CIA. In Mumbai, Ummah people want to bring back Muslim Sultanate back in India
2. Parliament attack similarity during clinton(I think, though not sure) years a lone gunman with AK-47 wanted to kill the Prez. Reasoning is pretty much same this time it is home grown in US context but imported in Indian context.
Just two examples...for now

Where it may happen.....
In US Timothy McVeigh used fertilizer bomb to destroy federal building. This time the paki-ullah will target some corporate high rise with similar tactic. There will be full plausible deniability because the driver will be gone with blast. Have an email sent from local 5th column within SIMI.

In US Air Planes were used to bring down twin towers, in India that is highly unlikely but a helicopter is available. Group of Kasabs board a helicopter, few know how to fly helo, next thing they may launch an air assault on any govt or private building to "Khouf Paida Kar Diya".

Opinions, Thoughts are welcome. I know it will be removed by some Moderator(s).

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 17 Jul 2009 09:20

Baljeet wrote:Now here is a smackdown from G Parthasarthy. He just gave a very honest opinion and rebukes the Statesman PM of India. Does this remind anyone of Havana meet where this statesman PM agreed that Pak and India are both victim of terrorism.
Even the people who are in the know are calling that PM of India has betrayed the people of this country. You have to watch the gem from KC Singh at the end of this video

Here is the link
Betrayel of People of Mumbai by PM

Baljeet, GP & Singh have echoed the very same sentiments some of us have expressed here.

GP says that the PM does not understand the seriousness of terrorism emanting from Pakistan towards India. That is a very serious accusation.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 17 Jul 2009 09:37

If G Parthasarthy is pissed of at MMS, this is very very bad for MMS. MMS, the simpleton is going to be eaten alive back home. What a sad state of affairs we have, to have a non strategic thinker as a PM.

OK lets ask MMS to resign.

*** deleted ***

Oh gawd deliver us. hamein dekhna hai, hum dekhenge, hum dekhtey rahengey.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 17 Jul 2009 09:42

That interview also proves that there was no chankiyan niti in the 'we are both victims of terror onlee' line. Singh clearly says he was forced into that stupid joint terror mechanism with the pakis. (Joint terror mechanism with the pakis? WTF are we going to commit terrorist acts together now???)

Man Mohan Singh's goose is cooked. *** Deleted ***

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 17 Jul 2009 09:59

Commie NDTV has edited that interview. That girl Nidhi clearly wasn't interested in what was being said, didn't understand the seriousness of what GP and KC Singh were saying.

Is it possible to see the whole discussion?

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 17 Jul 2009 10:43

Mumbai Taj gets ready to welcome Hillary Clinton

I am reminded of the meeting Bill Clinton had with the wife of Rupin Katyal who was killed in cold blood by pakistani terrorists on board IC-814. Prez Clinton gave general assurances only.

Now Ms Clinton is going to stay at the Taj, maybe even visit the Leopold Cafe and Chabad house. Are we seeing history repeat itself?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 17 Jul 2009 10:57

Gagan wrote:Mumbai Taj gets ready to welcome Hillary Clinton

I am reminded of the meeting Bill Clinton had with the wife of Rupin Katyal who was killed in cold blood by pakistani terrorists on board IC-814. Prez Clinton gave general assurances only.

At least Mr. Clinton gave some 'general assurances'.

AnimeshP · Post by **AnimeshP** » 17 Jul 2009 11:04

Cross Posting from other thread ...

US encouraged by resumption of Indo-Pak dialogue

The US today termed as "positive development" the resumption of dialogue between India and Pakistan.

"We are very encouraged by the positive signals coming out of these talks," State Department spokesman Ian Kelly told reporters, referring to the talks Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh had with his Pakistani counterpart Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani.

"The initial indications are that these are positive developments," Kelly said, without going into details.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 17 Jul 2009 16:42

X-post from TSP thread
Pak Govt at a loss to find evidence against Hafeez Saeed

The government is finding it difficult to have sufficient cogent evidence and material against Jamaat-ud-Dawa (JuD) chief Hafiz Mohammad Saeed to present it before the Supreme Court, seeking his preventive detention.

sum · Post by **sum** » 17 Jul 2009 16:45

IB4TL

The Mumbai attacks have been avenged by *drumroll* further chai-biskoot.

Better to keep a new thread on standby when the next attack happens (which is around the corner) and start it when the inevitable happens. Seeing this thread name and remembering the amazing declaration of yesterday only raises the BP.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 17 Jul 2009 17:12

sum wrote:IB4TL

The Mumbai attacks have been avenged by *drumroll* further chai-biskoot.

Better to keep a new thread on standby when the next attack happens (which is around the corner) and start it when the inevitable happens. Seeing this thread name and remembering the amazing declaration of yesterday only raises the BP.

Or better yet modify the name of the thread to include more cities and villages where these attacks will take place in the foreseeable future

.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 17 Jul 2009 17:24

The only way as I have said from the beginning is to launch covert action against the groups, imagine the H&D when press reports of yindu's assassinating LeT bigwigs on pig soil(although to be fair, there are plenty of groups who are on sale in pak). Covert ops can even involve poisoning or even petty things such as dumping drugs in the car of person traveling while tipping off local police/media.

For the bigger issue of training camps, C-130J's were bought for a reason.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 17 Jul 2009 17:32

shyamd wrote:For the bigger issue of training camps, C-130J's were bought for a reason.

Sorry shyamd if it was any other nation you would correct ... but looks like yindus being chankian bought it to please unkil.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 17 Jul 2009 17:34

Probably, but, its going to be very useful in the future in AfPak arena, Inshallah.

sum · Post by **sum** » 17 Jul 2009 17:39

I have given up on speculating what use our hardware will come to....

Given our current crop and future crop of netas, i can safely assume that C-130Js, Smerches, Grads, Pinakas, Bunker busters etc etc will only see action in war games and nothing more...

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 17 Jul 2009 18:12

SSridhar wrote:Some time back, someone wanted to close this thread because he saw no movement given the way Pakistan was approaching the whole issue. I was against the closure at that time. Today, after India has surrendered to Pakistan by delinking terrorism from further talks of composite dialogue, I feel that no purpose is going to be served any longer by keeping this thread open.

You mean that this thread is now as 'positive' in content and importance as the historic Joint Statement of Sharm al Sheik?

arun · Post by **arun** » 17 Jul 2009 18:23

X Posted before you Moderators pull the plug on this thread.

B.Raman’s aptly titled article in Rediff.

Not being in heaven, rather than feeling like shedding tears, I feel more llike retching for the pusillanimity shown by our Congress headed Government.

The Sharm El Sheikh statement is yet another climb down foisted on our nation following the Havana declaration fiasco perpetrated once again by this Congress Government of ours:

Indo-Pak statement lets down the martyrs of 26/11

July 17, 2009

……………. This agreement, which seeks to whitewash years of Pakistani sponsorship of terrorism against Indian civilians and security forces, will make all those who died at the hands of the terrorists shed tears in heaven. ………………

Rediff

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 17 Jul 2009 18:26

SSridhar wrote:Some time back, someone wanted to close this thread because he saw no movement given the way Pakistan was approaching the whole issue. I was against the closure at that time. Today, after India has surrendered to Pakistan by delinking terrorism from further talks of composite dialogue, I feel that no purpose is going to be served any longer by keeping this thread open.

On the contrary, one would need an archive of "Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline" even more. It would contribute to the Year Book on Blood & Gore in India, though one could transfer it to "General Discussions Forum", as India has no strategy on this issue, and now that it has been delinked from composite dialogue with Pakistan, it is not an international issue either, so need not be in "Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum".

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 17 Jul 2009 18:40

sum wrote:I have given up on speculating what use our hardware will come to....

Given our current crop and future crop of netas, i can safely assume that C-130Js, Smerches, Grads, Pinakas, Bunker busters etc etc will only see action in war games and nothing more...

No I am not that hopeless, I am sure we will at least offer token resistance next time Pakistan does a Kargil or China takes another bite or two.

The Indian public would have to be pretended too that we tried.

The only thing I like about Nehru for all his "qualities" is that at least he had the decency of dying of an heartbreak.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 17 Jul 2009 19:05

*** Deleted ***

Baljeet · Post by **Baljeet** » 17 Jul 2009 19:06

SSridhar wrote:
Baljeet wrote:Now here is a smackdown from G Parthasarthy. He just gave a very honest opinion and rebukes the Statesman PM of India. Does this remind anyone of Havana meet where this statesman PM agreed that Pak and India are both victim of terrorism.
Even the people who are in the know are calling that PM of India has betrayed the people of this country. You have to watch the gem from KC Singh at the end of this video

Here is the link
Betrayel of People of Mumbai by PM
Baljeet, GP & Singh have echoed the very same sentiments some of us have expressed here.

GP says that the PM does not understand the seriousness of terrorism emanting from Pakistan towards India. That is a very serious accusation.

Sridhar

Baljeet, GP & Singh have echoed the very same sentiments some of us have expressed here

Does that mean aam aadmi is a better strategist and tactician in this country then PM of this nation. We can find better economists in this nation dime a dozen but we can't find one fighter, strategist, tactician, geo-politik master in this nation. How much more can we do for our beloved country whilst Statesman Prime Minister just sells us out every time he opens his mouth.
Now most of Desi's should understand why we Indians are not respected anywhere in the world. Why we are treated worse than a dog by Air France, Aussie, Canucks, and the Ummah. Everyone wants to be connected in this world, we all have some sense of intelligence but only Congress and Statesman PM doesn't have any dignity, honor. I wonder how wrong was Advani when he called the statesman PM the weakest and nikamma (W&N)

Why is annuerism doesn't strike the people we want them to Rot in Hell?