Bharat Rakshak

Does Karnakata have anti-Conversion laws?

Anyway, who has conducted a census of the number of conversions in AP versus Karnataka? This is what I mean by speculation. There are a spate of posts on how EJ activitiy has reached alarming proportion in AP and you automatically conclude that conversions in AP are much higher than in Karnakata.

No one has any data.

What is peculiar is that the assertion that EAM returned by cutting his visit short due to YSR's crash was accepted as completely true. Conversion statistics are equally bunkum.

Till someone posts accurate statistics, everyone can draw his/her conclusions in absolutely confidence of not being challenged.

The Govt. gives subsidies for Haj travel. No govt. ever gave Haj subsidies till Congress decided to do it in early-90s.

Similarly, YSR may be the pioneer who provides funds for repairs of religious buildings.

So what? What does it prove?

First of all, you have no right to insult other posters, who maybe right or totally wrong, by stating that they can have an opinion along with his a –hole! That is most derogatory and they can also accuse you of the same. Are Mods here to sort out who is what? I find your language intemperate and very provocative and childish! Be warned! I am not recording it since I am man of patience and give enough rope for a person to hang himself. But be warned. You are crossing the Rubicon!

It is not your call to ask for the thread to be closed. The fact that you raise it, is indicative that you feel that the Mods are dithering idiots and have not seen the lights that seems to have only enveloped you? Pray, what is your equation with Divine knowledge?

You have gone to wonder when I became a Moderator.

Is that important? The fact that it says so, should be enough.

Or do you think those who made me a Moderator are brain denied. Aren't you being a bit too presumptuous? What are your credentials?

Look, friend, I am hardly the type to press the warning button, but if you want to demean the posters and rubbish the Mods as total cretin, you have a guess coming!

I have been polite so far!

You have to do by modeling based on knowledge when there is a large number of Crypto Christians. No one is going to comeout and tell even in a census becasue they will lose their SC status or whatever they are enjoying by not revealing that they are converted. The EJs in AP are trying extremely hard to get SC status to Dalit Christians to get to a point where Census also can declare. Not all things will be black and white. It is all modelling after knowledge and available data.

Calling the veiws of multiple folks as mere speculation and based on that asking this thread to be locked is also a biased view point. That is my point.

As far as conversion statistics, have you read Asianet?

Are you a Christian?

Is duping a part of the Christian way of life?

Let me assure you that but what is being done is absolutely un-Christian like!

Benny Hinn is what you think represents Christianity?

How do I know it?

Let's leave it as enigmatic as an Union Minister cutting short his visit just because a mere CM of a State has died and which is not even the State he comes from!!

Yes, as a Mod, I am here to protect every shade of opinion, including yours, provided they are based on facts and on temperate language!

How you moderate is up to you.

The question of when you became a moderate came up when I said this is not new for me to counter EJ allegations against YSR and I have done it earlier. Bald statement of fact with no value impulation.

How many posts are there in BR about opinions being like a-holes? Why pick on what I said?

How many times were calls issued for threads to be closed? Is this unprecedented?

I have no opinion on the fact that you are are moderator nor am I speculating on the credentials on those who have made you one.

I though the convention was that a moderator participating in the discussion does not directly issue warnings or ban people. Well, conventions/rules are meant to be broken, I guess.

In the time that you have quoted my post, I have made a spate of other posts. Some of them debunk the assertion that EAM returned by cutting his visit short due to YSR's death.

That has been ignored.

I have no expectations about your civility. I deal with the world as it is. Yes, it is a bost.

OT -- but over time I have come across a rather piskological understanding of my own on the forum, if there is a thread which is getting discussed well enough, and a one-few folks come into that thread and start asking for cessation of that thread or the particular topic in there at the moment, it usually means that the topic is reaching a point which is perhaps too near the uncomfortable truth and thus must be silenced.

Otherwise, if people are wasting their time in foolish speculation why should it bother anyone. Those not interested can stay out. And meaningless topics will get killed by the lack of interest anyway.

I happen to live in the state where you allege all this happens. I have travel extensively within my state and know the ground reality better than people not acquainted with my state.

You can also speculate about my religious persuasion. It has no bearing on what I say. What I say is based on my experience and familiarity with facts.

I had a archana done on my daughter's birthday for Venkateshwara swamy. I have deeparadha everdya in my home. What does that tell you?

Please feel free to ignore my posts. I no longer deem it proper to debate with you. You may take it that I consider myself inadequate to debate with you.

You have won. Leave this poor mortal to wallow in his ignorance.

Maybe god will save me!

It is of late that we are trying to clean up the language used.

Why use bad words when being dexterous with the language suffices?

Bad words only indicates that one has exhausted his power of the language.

You must understand that as we must protect your views, we have to protect other's views too!

Foul language messes up the Moderation and then people complain.

We are also human.

I am yet to see a Supermn, Batman, Spiderman, Mr America, Wonderwomen amongst the Moderators!

Easy.

I appreciate your view, but how about some moderation to your anger, which may be justified. Why lose those who would like to support you but can't since you are being intemperate?

You may not expect civility from me, but whose who have worked with me consider me to be civil and a fair man and things there were more knotty that such stuff as a forum!

I have observed another piskology in this forum. Postor/s carry on with the most ridiculous lines of argumentation. When that is countered, they say "Oh, we are so close to truth! See the discomfort?"

I am insignificant in the forum scheme of things. Just because I ask for this thread to be closed (because I feel it is ridiculous), no one is closer to any fundamental truth.

Anyway, I have seen that this line of thinking provides a lot of comfort to some people. Why should I endeavour to deny that?

Hence, I will let my request for thread closure to stay. That encourage everyone to get closer to the truth.

Good man, I have done three tenures in your state (something unheard of and equally surprising to me!).

I was also sent to organise anti Naxal stuff and toured your State.

I am no greenhorn either!

So spare me all your platitudes.

Did you run and sort out a Dalam?

I did!!



Take them on!

Just say:

Cry 'God for Harry, England and Saint George!'

And dive into them!

Haven't you seen me battered with confronting the Vedic, Indic, Bharatiya discussions? Have I said, close the thread? No, you may have a different view, and yet you learn! Knowledge is the salvation!

If you are a Christian, remember, tolerance is the badge of Christianity of yore. Today, it is all intolerance and that is not Christianity! That is, stupidity!

Here is the problem. This thread went on for 18 pages before you came. May be you have better knowledge and may be you can contribute better than all the zillion posters (including me) on this thread. However, instead of quoting a post (or multiple posts) and write your analysis with your data and then saying that poster's idea is wrong or ridiculous, you started saying all the 18 pages and posters are ridiculous and then on top of that asking the moderators to lock the thread.

The equivalant behaviour is - Enter into a conference room where people are discussing some topic and suddely shout at everyone as you bloddy ridiculous idiots and telling them that you don't know anything and then go to the powermain ans switching off the main so that everyone will stop the conference and run away.

Is this a gentle behaviour and if one asks why are you doing this, you keep on whining and whining. last two pages are all about you and zero contribution from you.

KS Kumar said

So also many posters can claim that they are living in the state and their experience is quite the opposite to your experience.
"Just because you cannot hear/see a tree falling in a forest does not mean trees do not fall in the forest" old jungle saying

I had said I will not debate further you on this thread.

But, what is a word if it cannot be broken, right? A very fallible human I am, indeed!

If you object to my risque languge (one word, that is), what can I say? How can you tolerate what occurs on many other threads where extremely colourful langugage is used?

Anyway, I can't object to your objecting. You don't like it. Fair enough. And I did not repeat it or use any other unparliamentary words despite, what I appeared to me, gratutous personal baiting in some of the above posts.

Also, I don't understand why my words convey any anger on my part.

This topic, YSR, Congress, ityadi mean nothing personal to me. I have been a life-long holder of anti-Congress views, except when PVNR was in power (what did I say about being a fallible human - add inconsistent to it)

I have my views and I post them.

I also have no expectations of other agreeing with my viewpoints. I am not a forum insider and have no illusions about the impact my views have. Though, hostility does cause a bit of surprise.

Once again, Easy does it.

You have good views, but say it nicely is all that I ask!

I have great regards for PVNR. He is the actual face of modern India, but then he is not of the Dynasty! He has done great stuff in the strategic and financial fields, but will remain in the background, not that the people are not aware!!

Anyway, I have broken my word of not debating with you.

Your background does not interest me. If there is a separate occassion when I have to salute your service to the country, I would be there and do so unconditionally.

What is this Christian stuff? Did you not read my post? Does one have to be a Christian to hold a contrary view?

There is a difference between you asking for a thread closure and a complete outsider like me. Hope you get it? If you don't, so be it.

Each to his own.

Actually if the whole discussion is ridiculous, some one coming in with hammer and tongs to close it and getting worked up about it just serves to add to the thought that the discussion is actually meaningful.

For example I think RM is person with interesting views, but hey as long as he sticks to the topic (unfortunately which he does not do a lot -- everything gets NBJPRE) and not be abusive (which he never is) I have never asked for him to be gagged.

I never visit his threads and let him be at peace to discuss what he wants with the folks here.

This itch of shutting people up and shouting that this must stop is something I cant understand frankly.

Best way to kill something ridiculous, is by ignoring it. Adding a vehement displeasure just adds to fuel the ridiculous -- that's my thinking at least, born of my experiences on the forum.

Sure

And anyone with an internet connection can google up links on whatever suits their agenda.

Kumar,

Calm down.

Be that word our sign of parting, bird or fiend!' I shrieked upstarting -
`Get thee back into the tempest and the Night's Plutonian shore!
Leave no black plume as a token of that lie thy soul hath spoken!
Leave my loneliness unbroken! - quit the bust above my door!
Take thy beak from out my heart, and take thy form from off my door!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'

I am aware that you would not care about my unit's contribution to AP, but we are used to it.

We also serve, who stand at wait.

We really don't care if you appreciate us or not, since we only care of our country!

What makes you think it will get killed? Don't you see a administrator jousting with me precisely on this point?

If posting facts and calling unfounded allegations "speculation" is going after anybody with "hammer and tongs" then I am proud of it.

Or are you implying that my saying that this thread should be closed, is going after everybody with "hammer and tongs"? If it is thigs, you are in no danger of seeing this thread disappear.

You not past a bit of distortion, are you Brig. RayC. My statement (which you could have quoted, perhaps an oversight) means:

"In the context of this thread, your background or mine do not count for the weightage of our views. I would be delighted to salute your service to my(our) country if there is an occasion where I can meet you to do so".

That is all it means.

Nobody questions your right to call this as speculation and provide proofs which contradict the discussion. If you are able to do so fine.The EAM link was good one and I appreciate it . However there was a counter to that too with another link. So you see more information is gathered and discussed.
The thing which is putting off everyone is your assertion that this thread must be closed. Let me tell you that many posts are (check the Pokhran threads) mainly a poster's analysis /speculation or call it what you like from the information gathered from public fora. People do research and get the information. You do not like what is discussed, either debate it with facts and prove everyone wrong or keep out

Kumar,
YSR poineer in what sense.Funding churches?IS it required.What is the agenda behind being the pioneer of funding only churches.Everyone who is a pioneer has an agenda isint it?

You dont have to take what I said personally, I just posted an observation about the itch to shut others up rather than post in support of their points, it kind of becoming a trend.

And yes, I have disagreed with moderators too, while still respecting their right to hold their opinion. In fact I have violently disagreed with RayC, but he has never warned me either. So I have learnt to respect him grudgingly, it takes a certain standard of mental strength to not use the mod privileges when interacting as a regular poster in the fora. Not all have it, so far I have never seen Brig RayC do that.

rkirankr wrote:



Why don't you let it rest? I asked for thread closure in the last page. It is still alive and kicking. Why beat a dead horse?

With regard to the link, what I have posted is official GOI press release. The other links are just newspaper reports. Pray, tell me why should GOI Press Release and some inaccurate newspaper reports be conflated as being of equal provenance?

b/w we now have reached a point wherin everything printed by the media unless served an defamation case and apologised for,is taken as truth.So sri ram sene attack is speculation?And BJP involvement in Ram mandir issue is also a speculation since it has not yet been proved in a court of law nor THERE IS OFFICIAL CONFIRMATION?

No danger of that at all. Please see a few posts above you.

Sri Ram Sene spokesperson accepted, on tv, that his people were involved.

BJP involvement in Ram Mandir is the same. It was in BJP's manifesto in 1996 and they have freely professed that Ram Mandir is one of their top issues.

However, I think you mean to say about BJP's involvement in the Babri demolition. That is still to be proven and hence a mere allegation. So, my point stands.

KSKumar,

Here is my take (speculation ).

All the news papers, websites and blogs including PTI reports have written that EAM returned cutting short his trip to Brazil. However, the EAM link dated 28th on their official site is saying that the trip is only until sep 1. That is a clear contradiction.

I think the corrupt government may have changed the posted news on the site as it is just content and it can be changed anytime.

Seriously all the news papers/blogs cannot collide and write someting similar unless there is a press statement released at that time by the government. If TOI or IE or say DC wrote it then you are right that some stupid news papers wrote it that way. Every news paper writing the same means it more than evident (beyond speculation) that someone in GOI relased such a statement on behalf of EAM.

Do you mean that there is no official govt website saying that SRI RAM sene was involved.Then how can we tell that Spokesperson accepted it??

Just as PVNR was a pioneer in providing Haj subsidies. What is his agenda? Dar-ul-Islam establishment? Or mollification of Congress Vote-bank post-Babri demolition?

Similarly, YSR providing Bethlehem pilgrimage subsidies and grants for repairs of religious structures could be an audacious play to consolidate the Christian vote for his party.

Remember, Christians in AP have not historically voted as blocks like Muslims. He and his Political Team thought they could make a play for these votes.

Fine, whatever.

There comes a point when sense gets drowned out and only noise remains. Have it your way.

If he is succesful, is that not helping the EJs by giving a political handle? Is this not the summary of so called speculation? The speculation/analysis is how far he was successful and how much the state really changed in that aspect? Many believe/speculate that there are a lot of spies/intruders/EJ Plants in various institutions for the above purpose.

Another canard.

I have many Muslim friends in Hyderabad, and they have not voted en bloc!

This might help to show your bias:

Lowest turnout in Hyderabad leaves MIM guessing

http://election.rediff.com/report/2009/ ... essing.htm

Please do not assume that you know AP, since you live there! Others who have lived there and look at the State with fondness keeps in touch with the news through the media and friends!

Why is that? So the average/typical Christian voter's agenda is only aiding EJ? He has no other interest in his State/Country?

Would you agree if somone characterizes voting for BJP as support for imposing Hindu Rastra or something on that lines and not mere support to a political party alive to its core constituency's psychological comfort?

Many speculate many things, include the most outlandish things. That is enough to say that EJs are taking over?

A radical indoctrinated person, irrespective of his faith, can think nothing beyond his religion!

Is that something of rocket science?

Oh, sure. Nice try.

Who won? And why? What is the vote share of the Majlis candidate?

Who could have voted for him?

Also, have you really read through your own link? Why does the link talk about hindus voting for TDP and therefore the MIM being nervous?

I have progressed from being gross/rude/offending to merely biased.

Surely, I am progressing!

My above comment would not have been necessary if you did not include your comment at the top

your statement


my reply



your reply



Please Don't twist the context. I did not bring in all the Christians in my reply. My contention was YSR and his handlers (politcal and non-political) to create the Christian vote block. His handlers included both political types and EJ types ( again speculation adding to your speculation)

Note: even your data point that YSR ( and his political strategists) may have tried for Christian vote bank also is speculation and does not have any solid proof. So it is fair to add EJs to the list of strategists into the same speculated statement. Everything can be outlandish

What is your point? I am sorry I am dense and cannot understand the acuity of your post.

Well it was your point that Bethlehem trip subsidies and grants for repair of religious structures is due to EJ agenda. I said it could be an electoral strategy and it could be a simple take off on the earlier PVNR gambit to mollify muslims through hajj subsidy.

I don't understand your post.