Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

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VijayKumarSinha
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Post by VijayKumarSinha »

jimmy_moh wrote:
VijayKumarSinha wrote:

This video shows how F117 nighthawks were used to surprise the Iraqis, who had the 5th largest Air force in the..................stalemate for 10 years.

In our case, I would like to imagine that the Brahmos could do a similar job for us against at least our beloved neighbours to the west.
that means we should have at least one advanced weapon than our enemies ...

but is this enough to counter against china..?
You have raised a very interesting question jimmy. I wonder about the same question everyday.

Firstly, I believe that in every single war in human history it has been the effectiveness of what you consider to be your most potent weapon that has won the war for you. Often, that weapon is the fastest element. Spears, over rocks, Arrows over Spears, Rifle over arrow, Cannon over rifle and so on. So the fact of the matter is F117 was faster than MIG29's and the French aircrafts that Iraq had because the Iraqi's didn't know what hit them until it was too late to react.

Secondly, I think there is only one thing in the Indian arsenal that is capable of successfully defeating China and that is Moral. Also, how is the Chinese moral? Are they willing to sacrifice like they did in South Korea? If they are then the most common surname in India won’t be Kumar, Patel, Sharma or Singh, It will be Vijay Han Wang from then on. If something has changed in China since then and they lack moral well then, you can look forward to more frequent pilgrimage to Man Sarovar.
You can most definitely kill an enemy with moral and most importantly destroy his will to fight you ever again (which is the ideal goal of warfare) Are we Indians willing to sacrifice a million soldiers like the Russians did in Stalingrad alone? Are we willing to lose 3 million people or 27% of our population like Vietnam? Would we have continued fighting in Kargil if the body count had been what it was in the first few weeks? Or, would we have permanently given up that territory and fallen back deeper into our own territory writing songs about how we were stabbed in the back again.

I want to reiterate my firm belief to the Jingos that the very moment the Iblis that is Pakistan recovers from its current disturbances it will once again come back to destroy us.

I don't want this to be another set of convoluted ideas so I will shut up but not before saying that every time in Islamic history if the Arabs and those that follow that same ideology had a chance of capturing territory they have done so in a heart beat. After which they concoct an elaborate set of facts to justify that. And what have we done?

Only an Ashoka style victory of the Punjab and sindh regions but one without any sorrow would end this Fitnah once and for all. Or as Shri Shri Shri Bharat Varma jee likes to say we will keep meeting them in Panipat. And I would like to add keep losing the 2nd battle and consequently the war after winning the first battle.

These questions keep me awake at night.
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Post by ArmenT »

VijayKumarSinha wrote:
Firstly, I believe that in every single war in human history it has been the effectiveness of what you consider to be your most potent weapon that has won the war for you. Often, that weapon is the fastest element. Spears, over rocks, Arrows over Spears, Rifle over arrow, Cannon over rifle and so on. So the fact of the matter is F117 was faster than MIG29's and the French aircrafts that Iraq had because the Iraqi's didn't know what hit them until it was too late to react.
Technically speaking, the F117 is not as fast as MIGs or French aircraft that the Iraqis had. The F117 is not capable of flying supersonic per public information available. This was done in order to maximise stealth and protect against heat-seekers. The way the USAF used the F117 was to take out the radar stations around the Iraqi border first, along with blackhawks. This meant that the Iraqi radars could no longer provide early warnings about heavier, bigger and non-stealthy aircraft flying into their territory.

For Baghdad, the only aircraft used to bomb the city was the F117. This is because Baghdad was easily one of the heaviest protected city in the world, with an incredible array of anti-aircraft guns and surface-to-air missiles. The F117 was stealthy enough to not be detected until the first bombs hit the ground and the Iraqis would pretty much fire into the air, hoping to get a lucky hit.
andy B
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Post by andy B »

^^^ Armenullah wasnt it the Apaches that did the strike...with ze cockroach flying stealth :-?
jimmy_moh
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Post by jimmy_moh »

VijayKumarSinha wrote:

Secondly, I think there is only one thing in the Indian arsenal that is capable of successfully defeating China and that is Moral. Also, how is the Chinese moral? Are they willing to sacrifice like they did in South Korea? If they are then the most common surname in India won’t be Kumar, Patel, Sharma or Singh, It will be Vijay Han Wang from then on. If something has changed in China since then and they lack moral well then, you can look forward to more frequent pilgrimage to Man Sarovar.
i think when we need to face china our moral will be low compared to chineese side [because of the nightmare of 62 war]
in my view element of surprice can not achieve only by advanced weapons , but also like some tactical attack in un prepared enemy post ...etc
like pakis done in longenwala [it become disaster for them but that is different side] , i feel this type of surprice attack will be rarely happen in any future war , here comes the importance of advanced weapons like brahmos it can destroy the enemy post in 200-300 km range in 10 mins and launching of this missile should be undetected by enemy satelites [other wise this is not a surprice attack]
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Post by Srivastav »

So lets see our soldiers, who are fighting for the survival of the motherland and have been bloodied (on field experience even if its CI, is still experience) in the field in J&K, NE, UN missions etc will have a low morale. Whereas, the chinese whos present generation of soldiers havnt seen any wothwhile action, neither i believe theyll have the "heart" our soldiers posses.

We are not Iraq and China is not Khan.
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Post by Kailash »

There is no threads on cyber warfare and capabilities India is building to protect her Information and communication assets in BR. Was this never thought of, or was it lack credible public information or do we consider it too minuscule a part in Indian military and defense?

For a country which boast of one of the largest IT population, how many hackers and IT personnel do we have - who can break into an enemy network in a matter of minutes and extract information or sabotage stuff? Or for that matter fortify and protect our own installations against enemy attacks?
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Threat of WMD being handed to Jehadis

Post by bchatnani »

With recent attacks on Pakistani defence installations by terrorists,there is a possibility of Pakistan handing over nuclear weapons to terrorists under the garb of such an attack.

Then like always, they could claim innocence from the crime.

Has such a scenario been discussed? How does India's NFU stand under such a scenario?
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Post by Rahul M »

Was this never thought of, or was it lack {of} credible public information or do we consider it too minuscule a part in Indian military and defense?
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Post by BajKhedawal »

A Turkish professor told me that his friend who designs weapons for Turkish Army designs them on a laptop which has only one power port, there is nothing else connected to the laptop as there are no other ports at all. Even the mouse is hardwired into the laptop!! Is this standard practice in our research organizations like DRDO?
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Post by Venu »

A humble request,

As I am new to posting on BR, can someone please pass on the gyan of how to include images in the post?

I tried to do it myself and lost two upper teeth :(

Thanks, Venu
shiv
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Post by shiv »

Kailash wrote:There is no threads on cyber warfare and capabilities India is building to protect her Information and communication assets in BR. Was this never thought of, or was it lack credible public information or do we consider it too minuscule a part in Indian military and defense?

For a country which boast of one of the largest IT population, how many hackers and IT personnel do we have - who can break into an enemy network in a matter of minutes and extract information or sabotage stuff? Or for that matter fortify and protect our own installations against enemy attacks?
Cyber warfare threads have been started from time to time. They usually fall out of the bottom after initial interest. You can try startig one if you have some gyan and maybe others will join in.
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Re: Threat of WMD being handed to Jehadis

Post by shiv »

bchatnani wrote:With recent attacks on Pakistani defence installations by terrorists,there is a possibility of Pakistan handing over nuclear weapons to terrorists under the garb of such an attack.

Then like always, they could claim innocence from the crime.
The biggest issue I have with your question is your assumption that Pakistan trained terrorists are somehow more dangerous to India and are more likely to use nukes against India than the Pakistan army.

Such a viewpoint is OK for Americans. Pakistan trained terrorists are more likely to use nukes against America while the Pak Army will not use them against America. For India the story is different. There is no difference between terrorist and Pakistan army as far as India is concerned.

Therefore if terrorists acquire nukes it will benefit India because come of those nukes will be reserved for all enemies of Allah which includes the US, NATO, Israel, India and maybe even China. As long as the Paki army has the nukes they are aimed at India alone.

If there is one valuable lesson you can teach any person new to the India-Pakistan issues it is this one.
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Post by archan »

Venu wrote:A humble request,

As I am new to posting on BR, can someone please pass on the gyan of how to include images in the post?

I tried to do it myself and lost two upper teeth :(

Thanks, Venu
Venu,
Welcome to BRF. :)
When you post, look at the buttons at the top of the box where you type. There are buttons like "B" (to make selected text bold), "i" (to convert selected text into italics), "u" for underlining, "Quote" to insert quote tags, "Code" to make it looksl ike computer programming code, etc. There is a button "Img" there which when clicked will add [ img ] [ /img ] tags into your text box. Paste the url of your image in between the two and your image should appear in the preview of your post. However, sometimes images don't work due to the server hosting the image not allowing hotlinking to the image.
Alternately just type in [img ]before the URL and[/img] after it (without the space in between g and ]).
Hope this helps.
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Post by Sriman »

Venu wrote:A humble request,

As I am new to posting on BR, can someone please pass on the gyan of how to include images in the post?

I tried to do it myself and lost two upper teeth :(

Thanks, Venu
If the image is in your hard drive, upload it to an image hosting site like imageshack. Once you have the url for the image, enclose the image between [img]and[/img] tags. Quote one of the posts with a picture in it and you'll see.
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Post by Bob V »

BajKhedawal wrote:A Turkish professor told me that his friend who designs weapons for Turkish Army designs them on a laptop which has only one power port, there is nothing else connected to the laptop as there are no other ports at all. Even the mouse is hardwired into the laptop!! Is this standard practice in our research organizations like DRDO?
no. but there are other measures, to prevent pilferage of data.
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Re: Threat of WMD being handed to Jehadis

Post by bchatnani »

shiv wrote:The biggest issue I have with your question is your assumption that Pakistan trained terrorists are somehow
more dangerous to India and are more likely to use nukes against India than the Pakistan army.
Dr Shiv, I am glad to have heard your thoughts.

My actual assumption is that the jehadis and the Pakistani army are one and the same. Their motives against India are one and the same.

The Pakistani establishment has always used irregular troops and terrorists to claim deniability. I think that the Indian Government will find it hard to retaliate against the Pakistani establishment in such a scenario if they execute their state policy behind the mask of non state actors.
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Post by Bob V »

how do you visually distinguish between a M4 and an AR-15 ?
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Post by Anabhaya »

For all their tech-saviness all the three forces have an embarassing official presence on the internet. :evil:
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Post by Rahul M »

Anabhaya wrote:For all their tech-saviness all the three forces have an embarassing official presence on the internet. :evil:
which is why BR is there !
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Post by Mayuresh »

Team,

Is there a thread discussing the new "Cold Start" Doctrine of the Indian Armed Forces? I tried, but could not locate one. Could anyone point me to any thread where this was discussed?

Thanks,
Mayuresh
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Post by Rahul M »

you will find some in the archives and a couple of articles in BRM/SRR.

there is no running thread because there is no information publicly available, so what will we discuss ?
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Post by Manish_Sharma »

I have a question:
Is the type of carbon composites used in different planes same, whether it is Tejas, Ef2k or boeing 787? Or they differ from country to country or plane to plane?
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Post by Shameek »

Is there any rule in the IAF regarding the size of the roundels/fin flash on aircraft with respect to the size of the wing/tail?
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Post by Mayuresh »

Rahul M wrote:you will find some in the archives and a couple of articles in BRM/SRR.

there is no running thread because there is no information publicly available, so what will we discuss ?
Sorry, I so not know what BRM/SRR is :(

Can you point me to some specific articles by experts who would have made some educated guesses as to what this strategy involves?
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J-10

Post by koti »

The Chengdu J-10 of PLAAF is thought of as a copy of IAI Lavi. This looks similar to J-10 from a distance too.
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Post by Jagan »

Mayuresh wrote:
Rahul M wrote:you will find some in the archives and a couple of articles in BRM/SRR.
Sorry, I so not know what BRM/SRR is :(
http://tinyurl.com/yal6qoc ;)
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Post by George J »

Manish_Sharma wrote:I have a question:
Is the type of carbon composites used in different planes same, whether it is Tejas, Ef2k or boeing 787? Or they differ from country to country or plane to plane?
That's a VERY good question.....you might not even know how good a question that is. :)

The raw materials for composites (not just Carbon Composites) might be sources from the same vendors. But NAL...ADA and HAL with their Center for Advanced Composites have their own specs for Tejas, similarly every other OEM from airplane to prosthetic will have their own specs. But the raw material is pretty much sources from the same vendors.
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Post by Manish_Sharma »

George J wrote:
Manish_Sharma wrote:I have a question:
Is the type of carbon composites used in different planes same, whether it is Tejas, Ef2k or boeing 787? Or they differ from country to country or plane to plane?
That's a VERY good question.....you might not even know how good a question that is. :)

The raw materials for composites (not just Carbon Composites) might be sources from the same vendors. But NAL...ADA and HAL with their Center for Advanced Composites have their own specs for Tejas, similarly every other OEM from airplane to prosthetic will have their own specs. But the raw material is pretty much sources from the same vendors.
Thank you George J! :)
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Post by ramana »

MIT press has a very readable book :The Simple Science of Flight" which is very accessible. Try to get it from your library. It describes flight of insects to Jumbo jets.
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Post by SRoy »

Rahul M wrote:you will find some in the archives and a couple of articles in BRM/SRR.

there is no running thread because there is no information publicly available, so what will we discuss ?
Interesting, my panwallah sources say Cold Start is dead and gone.
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Post by Rahul M »

interesting, if for nothing else the fact that we didn't hear of it as much as we should have in the aftermath of 26/11 and I was wondering why. fits in I guess.
the '5000 targets' spoken of didn't sound like cold start at all.
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Post by Manish_Sharma »

^^Cold Start Dead? :shock:
Why abondon such powerful weapon?
Crossposting from Dileep's Spy Story 1:
The PM shuddered himself on the word Cold Start. It is a weapon like the one given by Indra to Karna. The Shakthi could be used only on one enemy, and it is indefeatable. The Cold Start doctrine was specifically designed for Pakistan and also for this kind of situation. It is the PM's responsibility to take that decision.
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Post by BajKhedawal »

There’s a thread elsewhere discussing COIN and CT operations in India. Lead post explains what CT means but not COIN.

1) Does it stand for Counter Insurgency?

2) How would a desi mango man (Shiv©) make distinction between the two? Aren’t terrorist’s insurgents, and insurgents terrorist?

3)Assuming that COIN and CT concepts are different in Indian context as well as it may be the case with its defining author country, how does the basic strategy differ in countering them?

Thanks in advance.
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Post by ramana »

jimmy_moh wrote:i have a newbie doubt...

as we see the history of any war element of surprise played a very big role in victory ...
but in this modern warfare how we can achieve this element of surprise.....

with the help of remote sensing satellites enemy can see the movement of our troops including the strength of the
troops also [ vice versa] so enemy can do all the countermeasures ...... right..?

so how the element of surprise playing the role in this modern war fare..?

The ones who win are those who break the symmetry. And yes chaos is symmetry!
IOW the one who win will be those who can act asymmetrically. Recall Shyam Saran's directive in first post: "Linear thinking will not transform a caterpillar into a butterfly!"
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Post by vcsekhar »

Hello Everybody,
I am a newbie who is very interested in aviation and aviation technology. I have been reading forum posts for some time now.
I have something for discussion on stealth technology but it does not fit into any of the existing discussion topics. Can I start a new topic or can they only be started by the Mods?

Regards
chandrasekhar
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Post by Gaur »

If mods give you permission to start a new thread then well and good.
Otherwise, you could post in this thread itself. This thread is both for newbies and military misc.
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Post by arya »

Hello Everybody, :)
I am a newbie from kanpur who is very interested in Military aviation and aviation technology. I have been reading forum posts for long time.
JAI HIND


Regards:
Sachin
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Post by Asit P »

Welcome to BR :) .
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Post by atreya »

I am noticing that for the past 1.5-2 weeks, the "Top Stories" section on the main page of BR is not up-to-date. Many important defence related articles are being missed out. Why is it so?
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Re: Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Post by Kailash »

shiv wrote: Cyber warfare threads have been started from time to time. They usually fall out of the bottom after initial interest. You can try startig one if you have some gyan and maybe others will join in.
I give up. I tried to consolidate a few items on this topic. But most information lacks credibility and/or is biased. Even went into some white-hat security forums etc - but nothing that can be substantiated or 100% verifiable. Mostly chai/paan wala stories.

As a matter of national security (hollywood movie dialogue :wink: ) , I guess, cyber warfare and defense capabilities is not suitable for open forum discussions. Less of factual information/proof, and plenty of controversies.
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