LCA news and discussion
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Re: LCA news and discussion
CAN SOMEONE TELL ME WHAT RADAR the first 40 LCA MARK 1 WILL HAVE? will it be el/m-2032 or mmr with el/m-2052 aesa front end
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Re: LCA news and discussion
I can't say for sure, but I guess it would be a hybrid radar with air to air modes of mmr while air to ground modes of elta's 2032 radar. So it would be hybrid between our mmr and 2032. If you would be following this thread for some years, you would know that mmr's air to air modes are working well. I hope that helpsCAN SOMEONE TELL ME WHAT RADAR the first 40 LCA MARK 1 WILL HAVE? will it be el/m-2032 or mmr with el/m-2052 aesa front end
Re: LCA news and discussion
Its there on the BRF page for the Tejas itself.Srivastav wrote: On a different note i dont think ive yet seen a LCA pic with litening pod. Now that would be an awesome sight for a jingo's eyes.
Also cant wait for the gun tests.
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Re: LCA news and discussion
Very bad translation, but interesting to read ....
http://translate.google.com/translate?p ... _state0=10,
http://translate.google.com/translate?p ... _state0=10,
LCA = "Gripen fighter when the CD all the time depends on the performance of the radar if you have AESA (Active Phased Array Radar) LCA can be shot down SU30MKI, but we can say he was stronger than the MKI do? Can not be! The outcome depends on the aircraft, air the entire system performance.
However, LCA's internal equipment is a challenge. However, imports of LCA is very suitable for the radar, receiving systems, intelligence gathering and early warning aircraft systems and coordination. If it is not subject to payload restrictions, he could become multi-purpose fighter.
We all know that LCA's radar reflector surface and the French Rafale, the European Typhoon, Swedish Gripen is small compared to big? Although I know that may belong to a secret, but I really want to know.
CA can be sure that the reflection cross-section is very low, thanks to his appearance, as well as 45% of the amount of composite materials. 而且LCA。 And the LCA air intakes were also low to detect design. I want to reflect size should be smaller than Sweden's Gripen, considering the dimensions of the case.
Re: LCA news and discussion
http://www.ada.gov.in/others/MoreCurren ... tnews.html
LCA-Tejas has completed 1216 Test Flights successfully. (21-Oct-09).
* LCA has completed 1216 Test Flights successfully
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-224,PV2-128,PV3-173,LSP1-54,LSP2-99).
* 123rd & 124th flight of Tejas PV1 occurred on 20th Oct 09.
Do any Panwalas have information about what percentage of the test cases are complete?
LCA-Tejas has completed 1216 Test Flights successfully. (21-Oct-09).
* LCA has completed 1216 Test Flights successfully
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-224,PV2-128,PV3-173,LSP1-54,LSP2-99).
* 123rd & 124th flight of Tejas PV1 occurred on 20th Oct 09.
Do any Panwalas have information about what percentage of the test cases are complete?
Re: LCA news and discussion
1216 test flights?
In China, the J10 had to complete more than 3000 test flights before it went into mass production.
So it means still many years left for LCA to go to service?
In China, the J10 had to complete more than 3000 test flights before it went into mass production.
So it means still many years left for LCA to go to service?
sameer_shelavale wrote:http://www.ada.gov.in/others/MoreCurren ... tnews.html
LCA-Tejas has completed 1216 Test Flights successfully. (21-Oct-09).
* LCA has completed 1216 Test Flights successfully
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-224,PV2-128,PV3-173,LSP1-54,LSP2-99).
* 123rd & 124th flight of Tejas PV1 occurred on 20th Oct 09.
Do any Panwalas have information about what percentage of the test cases are complete?
Re: LCA news and discussion
Read an article on a pakistani daily about LCA. Among a lot of gibberish, they were comparing the increase in unit cost of an LCA with that of an MKI (31 mil vs 33 mil a piece)
Does anyone have the exact price of an LCA as of today? What will be the approximate difference between mk-1 and mk-2 (assuming mk-2 comes out 5 years from now)?
* Link deleted later
Does anyone have the exact price of an LCA as of today? What will be the approximate difference between mk-1 and mk-2 (assuming mk-2 comes out 5 years from now)?
* Link deleted later
Last edited by Kailash on 04 Nov 2009 14:20, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LCA news and discussion
Kailash wrote:Read an article on a pakistani daily about LCA. Among a lot of gibberish, they were comparing the increase in unit cost of an LCA with that of an MKI (31 mil vs 33 mil a piece)
Does anyone have the exact price of an LCA as of today? What will be the approximate difference between mk-1 and mk-2 (assuming mk-2 comes out 5 years from now)?
Been there, read that and decided it was a waste of bandwidth!
Re: LCA news and discussion
why the F do ppl give so much importance to what a stupid baki thinks?
Kailash cant you discriminate between a decent newspaper article and a trashy blog?
this is the second time this link has been brought over to BR by people browsing deaf and dumb I think.
Kindly only refer to sources which are not stupid and biased, thanks.
BTW Neela can you edit your post to remove the link to the blog, why should BR give link back to such trashy blogs
Kailash cant you discriminate between a decent newspaper article and a trashy blog?
this is the second time this link has been brought over to BR by people browsing deaf and dumb I think.
Kindly only refer to sources which are not stupid and biased, thanks.
BTW Neela can you edit your post to remove the link to the blog, why should BR give link back to such trashy blogs
Re: LCA news and discussion
Well, agreed with both Mehta and Neela. The article is crap.
Now can we discuss the price of the LCA as of today?
Now can we discuss the price of the LCA as of today?
Re: LCA news and discussion
The last I read, it was 31 million a piece (As per Reuters).Kailash wrote:Now can we discuss the price of the LCA as of today?
Re: LCA news and discussion
I guess, it's Elta 2052 (and not 2032).sharma.abhinav wrote:I can't say for sure, but I guess it would be a hybrid radar with air to air modes of mmr while air to ground modes of elta's 2032 radar
Re: LCA news and discussion
Elta 2052 is AESA radar.I guess, it's Elta 2052 (and not 2032).
Tejas Mk-1 will be using Elta 2032, (so without AESA).
We will probably see Elta 2052 or Russian Zuke-AE AESA on Tejas MK-2.
Last edited by pralay on 04 Nov 2009 19:50, edited 1 time in total.
Re: LCA news and discussion
Isn't that 31 million for the NLCA?Asit P wrote:The last I read, it was 31 million a piece (As per Reuters).Kailash wrote:Now can we discuss the price of the LCA as of today?
Even though LCA initially might cost some where between 20-25 million a piece, cost might come down as the production picks up. If only it happens.
Naval LCA will cost more because of the changes that needs to be done and the additional accessories that needs to be fitted.
Now can anyone tell me whats the status of PV5? It is supposed to start flying by now but still no word of it.
Last edited by Venu on 04 Nov 2009 19:48, edited 1 time in total.
Re: LCA news and discussion
Is the ELTA 2052 fully developed and ready for induction . I don't think soAsit P wrote:I guess, it's Elta 2052 (and not 2032).sharma.abhinav wrote:I can't say for sure, but I guess it would be a hybrid radar with air to air modes of mmr while air to ground modes of elta's 2032 radar
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Re: LCA news and discussion
Asit sir, as far as I know through my readings on BRF the radar that will be integrated first on LCA MK1 for initial opterational clearence will either be a hybrid of our MMR and Elta's 2032, or would entirely be the 2032. Elta's 2052 would in all probability be considered for the MK2 version of the aircraft.I guess, it's Elta 2052 (and not 2032).
Re: LCA news and discussion
after spending big sums on Israel for LCA-MMR [elta], why waste again integrating with Russian Zhuk., when LCA-MMR would be ready to FCR russian missiles as well.We will probably see Elta 2052 or Russian Zuke-AE AESA on Tejas MK-2.
Re: LCA news and discussion
That makes a point, no doubt.SaiK wrote:after spending big sums on Israel for LCA-MMR [elta], why waste again integrating with Russian Zhuk., when LCA-MMR would be ready to FCR russian missiles as well.We will probably see Elta 2052 or Russian Zuke-AE AESA on Tejas MK-2.
Re: LCA news and discussion
agreeSaiK wrote:after spending big sums on Israel for LCA-MMR [elta], why waste again integrating with Russian Zhuk., when LCA-MMR would be ready to FCR russian missiles as well.We will probably see Elta 2052 or Russian Zuke-AE AESA on Tejas MK-2.
Re: LCA news and discussion
sharma.abhinav wrote:Asit sir, as far as I know through my readings on BRF the radar that will be integrated first on LCA MK1 for initial opterational clearence will either be a hybrid of our MMR and Elta's 2032, or would entirely be the 2032. Elta's 2052 would in all probability be considered for the MK2 version of the aircraft.
Bhai log, there was a report in 'The Hindu' citing P.S. Subramaniam, Programme Director of ADA. It goes like this:-sameer_shelavale wrote:Elta 2052 is AESA radar. Tejas Mk-1 will be using Elta 2032, (so without AESA). We will probably see Elta 2052 or Russian Zuke-AE AESA on Tejas MK-2.
That is why I get the impression that LCA MK1 will be a hybrid of Indian MMR and Elta 2052. And we shall try to go for a fully indigenous radar in MK2. Alternatives for MK2 will be sought only if we fail in our endeavour.P.S. Subramaniam, Programme Director, Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), the defence laboratory that is designing the LCA, told The Hindu that “airworthy units” of the Israeli – manufactured MMR would be arriving here early next week for integration into the aircraft. The Elta designed and developed MMR, Elta EL/M-2052 which will be an interim option since India is developing an indigenous one, has already undergone tests on the flight test bed and ground rig in Israel.
Re: LCA news and discussion
31 Million is the cost of the birds that are currently being flight tested. This is what the article stated:-Venu wrote:Isn't that 31 million for the NLCA? Even though LCA initially might cost some where between 20-25 million a piece, cost might come down as the production picks up. If only it happens.
The cost will go further up when we add the cost of the radar and a better engine. Having said that, you are right about the cost coming down owing to economies of scale.Five Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) costing about $31 million each have already been manufactured by state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) and undergoing trials, while eight more will be ready by mid-2010, defence officials said.
Re: LCA news and discussion
If that report is any confirmation [actually we have already discussed this here], then it is to be assumed that our new IAF specs mandate AESA for LCA, and while Elta-DRDO works on the LCA-MMR-AESA, the interim is 2052.
If that is a ddmities and that IAF really does not care AESA for LCA, then it could be 2032. The exacts will be known only after MMR loads in, and fires all kinds, and IAF starts user acceptance trials.
If that is a ddmities and that IAF really does not care AESA for LCA, then it could be 2032. The exacts will be known only after MMR loads in, and fires all kinds, and IAF starts user acceptance trials.
Re: LCA news and discussion
Currently, royalties/costs for the radar and engine are still flowing out of the country. R&D costs have increased than previously planned and number have drastically come down (to 40). All this has to be amortized while calculating the new cost - certainly going to be > 25mil.
This is while ignoring the mk-2 - which will have its own R&D costs, imports and price tag.
This is while ignoring the mk-2 - which will have its own R&D costs, imports and price tag.
Re: LCA news and discussion
Thanks Kailash and Neela,
Didnt mean to be so rude. but generally pissed at such blogs getting clicks from BRF and eyeballs from BRFites.
Didnt mean to be so rude. but generally pissed at such blogs getting clicks from BRF and eyeballs from BRFites.
Re: LCA news and discussion
Are there any concrete parameters that the LCA has to establish or are they just going to add everything under the sun to the LCA ? I ask because of the confusion between AESA and non-AESA radar that is "going" to be added to the final version.
Re: LCA news and discussion
AESA with its extended range helps in BVR engagements. Besides, they could jam in multiple use for it [communications, high freq jamming, LPI, pulse mode with different frequencies using diff t/rs (stealth mode) and wider target types, and very useful for a multi role a/c. Passive ops including RWR, and passive scanning and tracking capabilities improves for more stealth ops. AESA is a high jam resistant., and on passive mode detections, it can go switched off.. The technology really helps LCA for a true "multi - role" capability.
Further an AlGaN or GaN MMICs helps AESA for high amps.. Dileep saab can give more info on this. Also one may wiki arround http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GaN
Further an AlGaN or GaN MMICs helps AESA for high amps.. Dileep saab can give more info on this. Also one may wiki arround http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GaN
Re: LCA news and discussion
I did answer these issues - that was waaaaay back in 2006 - some snippets:SaiK wrote:Further an AlGaN or GaN MMICs helps AESA for high amps.. Dileep saab can give more info on this. Also one may wiki arround http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GaN
IIRC some of the basic differentiators between GaAs and GaN based transistors (both having higher operating frequency tapability and similar noise figures) are as follows :Code: Select all
Features GaAs GaN ---------- ------ ----- Power Density (at X-Band) 1.5W/mm 10W/mm DC-to-RF Efficiency (at X-Band) 20% ~36% and 60% (at L-Band) Energy Gap at Room Temp 1.90eV 3.4eV Breakdown E-Field (V/Cm) 6.5*10^5 3.5*10^6
Details can be found in the following Archived thread:Betw, in lay-man (like me ) terms, what the above means are as follows:
Power Density: Higher power densities allow smaller chips to handle the same amount of power, resulting in more chips per wafer, and hence, lower costs per chip. Also will result in smaller chips.
DC-to-RF Efficiency: Measure how effieciently RF waves are generated i.e. how less heat is genarated in the process of creating RF waves. Thus higher efficiency implies less thermal mgmt headache and there-in weight penalties.
Energy Gap or Band Gap: Higher the value, allows higher temperature operation (thus requiring less cooling) and higher radiation stability. Also higher the value more closer you're to be classifiead as an insulator.
Break down E-Field: Higher value means higher "tolerance" to higher voltage - thus more resistant to breakdown due to high voltage peaks.
Radar thread - specs & discussions
Hope this helps.
Re: LCA news and discussion
It seems like Radar integration is taking lot of time LSP3/4 and PV-5 are no where to be seen and we are coming to end of this year ,it will be very disappointing year for Tejas program if this jets couldn't take their first flight has expected
Re: LCA news and discussion
you should not, even from a layman's view if you could pay attentions to the factors.be very disappointing year for Tejas program
Re: LCA news and discussion
Just one flight test in 10 days.... something serious is going on Calm before storm???
Re: LCA news and discussion
karan_mc wrote:It seems like Radar integration is taking lot of time LSP3/4 and PV-5 are no where to be seen and we are coming to end of this year ,it will be very disappointing year for Tejas program if this jets couldn't take their first flight has expected
Hopefully so.RKumar wrote:Just one flight test in 10 days.... something serious is going on Calm before storm???
And its supposed to have the IOC next year.
Re: LCA news and discussion
I thought this year, if it is next year then IOC should not be a problem. Because for IOC, it requires less then 300 more sorties. Once MMR/radar is integrated, there should be more sorties as more planes will be avilable and system is getting more stable n mature.Dmurphy wrote:And its supposed to have the IOC next year.
Re: LCA news and discussion
LSP-2 (KH2012) first flight was on 16 June 2008 its almost been 18 months now and still no test flight of LSP-3, while LSP-4 was also supposed to be in air by mid 2009 . in this three years (2007-09) period HAL was able to deliver only two LSP and we still need other 6 LSP to meet IOC and FOC by at least 2013, it only shows how slow the actual work is going on in HAL .as per orginal program schedule HAL should deliver all LSP by 2010 ,if LSP-3/4 cannot make its first flight by year end then Tejas program will surely see some more delays
Re: LCA news and discussion
sir to what factors are you referring to ? other then some weapons trials nothing big has happened yet to Tejas program yet this yearSaiK wrote:you should not, even from a layman's view if you could pay attentions to the factors.be very disappointing year for Tejas program
Re: LCA news and discussion
shubh shubh bolo yaarkaran_mc wrote:LSP-2 (KH2012) first flight was on 16 June 2008 its almost been 18 months now and still no test flight of LSP-3, while LSP-4 was also supposed to be in air by mid 2009 . in this three years (2007-09) period HAL was able to deliver only two LSP and we still need other 6 LSP to meet IOC and FOC by at least 2013, it only shows how slow the actual work is going on in HAL .as per orginal program schedule HAL should deliver all LSP by 2010 ,if LSP-3/4 cannot make its first flight by year end then Tejas program will surely see some more delays
Be positive. May be they are really doing some serious stuff, may be they are planning to give us a new year gift.
Let us assume that Tejas gets inducted in 2011. Is there any chance that we can see it participating in Red Flag or atleast Cope Thunder ??
Thanks
Re: LCA news and discussion
Well I cannot comment on the LSP thing but a Tejas was up in the year after a really long time......
Re: LCA news and discussion
sunny, hold your horses, let it be inducted in numbers into IAF first.
Re: LCA news and discussion
Guys, LCA needs to be inducted into Indian Air Force asap. This can't be delayed. The Chinese rattling is continuing and it may reach the peak. They are not happy with the Dalai Lama's visit. We need LCA and also we need to increase the Air power .
Re: LCA news and discussion
Asking the DRDO or GTRE to come up with a 4.5 gen fighter is like asking Indian Railways(Coach factory) to come up with a super magnetic train. I dont think these Gov run org have it in them to work efficiently(With the exception of ISRO). One of my friends brother was a scientist working on the Kaveri project and tried to do his Phd there, he however left the place and went for a job in the US which pays more and has more opportunity, he did not see any future there.
However i meet this other scientist who was working there for 20 years, he looked and sounded like my physics teacher in 12th std which is a bad thing. My Physics teacher is good in doing math but creativity and exposure is Zero. I think with people like that you should not expect even the Saras to be commercial viable. I assume there is a serious lack of talent,opportunity and youth at these places.
In the US every engineering kid is inspired and has his eye on NASA, Lockheed Martin as his dream job, in India we have the same thing all our engg kids want to join NASA, Boeing not ISRO or DRDO. After 10yrs of waiting, I feel very negative about this project ever materializing, i hope to be proved wrong though.
However i meet this other scientist who was working there for 20 years, he looked and sounded like my physics teacher in 12th std which is a bad thing. My Physics teacher is good in doing math but creativity and exposure is Zero. I think with people like that you should not expect even the Saras to be commercial viable. I assume there is a serious lack of talent,opportunity and youth at these places.
In the US every engineering kid is inspired and has his eye on NASA, Lockheed Martin as his dream job, in India we have the same thing all our engg kids want to join NASA, Boeing not ISRO or DRDO. After 10yrs of waiting, I feel very negative about this project ever materializing, i hope to be proved wrong though.
Re: LCA news and discussion
Its not always like that...I am an engineering student from an elite engineering college in India ...and I wanna join HAL...and It is not only me...but many other people from my college wanna join PSUs...!!!karthik wrote:In India we have the same thing all our engg kids want to join NASA, Boeing not ISRO or DRDO.